PipeChat Digest #5013 - Saturday, December 18, 2004
 
RE: G D & B
  by "alantaylor1" <alantaylor1@members.v21.co.uk>
RE: 128' stops
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: 128' stops
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Breaking news - accompanied by a roll on the drums
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Greeks bearing Christmas trees, etc.
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: 128' stops
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: 128' stops
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Greeks bearing Christmas trees, etc.
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Breaking news - accompanied by a roll on the drums
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Breaking news - accompanied by a roll on the drums
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: 128' stops
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
RE: 128' stops
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
RE: G D & B
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Weird Pedal Stops
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Weird Pedal Stops
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Weird Pedal Stops
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: 128' stops
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Weird Pedal Stops
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: 128' stops
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Greeks bearing Christmas trees, etc.
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: RE: G D & B From: "alantaylor1" <alantaylor1@members.v21.co.uk> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:01:12 -0000   Yes Ross, St John's Holland Road. All of the excessive volume could be blamed on the organist. The organ was partly designed to accompany plainsong. And has beautiful strings and flutes. 4 manuals.   Please don't come after me with your curve of a rope!   What's this I hear about you being so taken with biretta's, on your stay = at St Mary's, that you went straight out to buy one? For use at home in NZ?   Alan London   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of TheShieling Sent: 18 December 2004 05:52 To: 'PipeChat' Subject: RE: G D & B     >The organ at Holland Road, any maybe I should drop my voice and whisper, = or Ross will stir and bight, is a Willis 111. Originally built by Gern. A = very fine organ. (sorry Ross)   Is this the Holland Park Road Anglo-Catholic haven? Said to be the last church in London to have been built with a stone vault? That the one? If = it is, then Harry Coles took me there to a lengthy special evening service on my 1992 Trip. I didn't go to the console at all, so have no idea how big = the organ is or who built, but it was excessively loud and I felt that only = part of that could be blamed on the organist.   There, was that enough "bite" (or "bight" as you wrote, which my OED says, inter alia, means "curve of a rope") :-) :-)   Ross       ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>     -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 17/12/2004   -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 17/12/2004    
(back) Subject: RE: 128' stops From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 03:31:17 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   This is absolute nonsense!   Why else did John Compton invent the Polyphonic Bass?   I feel sure that the 128ft tones could be generated out of a single box. I estimate that a box eight times the volume of the usual Compton cube would be sufficient, making it perfectly transportable disguised as a shipping container and thus avoiding any import tariffs. Indeed, the metal version operating on low wind pressure would also be well received by the advocates of neo-baroque organ-building, for it would be a proper realisation of the old Donner (Thunder) register found on certain 18th century German instruments.   With suitable internal carpeting, the 128ft polyphone would have the added advantage of doubling up as a choir rehearsal/organist's junk room when not required; though care would have to be taken not to overstock the music "shelves" which double up as internal strengthening ribs, for this could affect the tuning.   Of course, the tonal qualities could not, at first, be appreciated, for even with the quickest of voicing, preliminary tests show that each note would require 3 hrs 13m 07secs to achieve steady speech. For those of a romantic disposition, and utilising Schulze voicing techniques, it would be perfectly feasible for the lowest notes to commence speech one week, and reach full maturity the next.   The fact that no one could possily hear even a single note, could bring great musical benefits; especially to the music of Herbert Howells.   There is also another advantage in making these ultra low registers; which with suitable extension techniques, could be made playable at 128ft, 64ft and, for the baroque entusiasts, at 32ft foot pitch, with all suitable derived mutations in between; thus bringing a certain richness and clarity to the pedal ensemble.   Of course, there will be imitators.   In New Zealand, they will use a whole preserved Sperm Whale as a polyphonic bass, and claim that it is ecologically beneficial and musically more natural. True organ builders know that anything remotely musical requires blood, sweat and tears, and not the make-shift, corner-cutting, off the shelf, flesh and bone variety the New Zealander's claim as their own! Even the name is a musical travesty and typical of the sort of eco-friendly propoganda they, and their whales spout daily! "Orcarina" indeed!   Other than for the music of John Blow, (a mere drop in the ocean of world music) what possible use could the Orcarina have?   But of course, there is one enormous advantage to the 128ft stop, as well as the 64ft Harmonic version and the 256ft stopped version known as the "Double Donner" of obscure Greek origin. There isn't a single manufacturer of cheap electronic substitutes who could generate the rich tones of the "Donner" without also including "Blitzen", as the van der Graff generator explodes in its feeble attempts to provide the power required of the enormous, parabolic doomsday speaker mounted on the roof of the church.   Of course, they will try every trick in the book, and even claim that this wonderful new loudspeaker can also serve as a radio-telescope using digital computing enhancement, an oscilloscope, a basic keyboard and a mouse.   Beware of imitators and their sound bytes.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- TheShieling <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> wrote:   > >I've been wondering for a while what effect a 128' > or even 256' open > wood pipe would have   > Alternatively, you could ask a friendly sperm whale, > oh, about 140ft long > and weighing about 67 tons, to "speak" that low note > for you.....     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page =96 Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: 128' stops From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 03:34:31 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Isn't that just typical of these electronic "experts" and their use of "science" to baffle people?   Music is the food of love, not the food of thought!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- RonSeverin@aol.com wrote:   > Ross: > > The earth we all stand on, according to > geo-scientists resonates > 30 octaves below middle C . > > Just a little science stuff, food for thought.       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Breaking news - accompanied by a roll on the drums From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 03:45:18 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Goll-Gosh! A Swiss organ built from heritage funding?   Shouldn't it be a cuckoo clock?   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- Harry Grove <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> wrote:   > Joy to the world; I have just received the Press > Release from the Royal > College of Organists announcing the selection of the > builder for their new > organ.       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Re: Greeks bearing Christmas trees, etc. From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 03:49:49 -0800 (PST)   Helo,   How silly.   In Yorkshire, the organists walk around the church four times carrying a pint of ale, muttering, "Where's t'bloomin' entrance!"   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       > Alan Freed wrote: > > -------Original Message------- > > > They carry pussy-willow branches as they process > around the > > outside of the cathedral three times on the day > before Palm Sunday.       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250  
(back) Subject: RE: 128' stops From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 08:07:46 -0500   > First, you'll have to go to Muirwoods outside San Francisco to get some > > (sequoia) trees long enough for your pipe speaking 2 cycles per > second at CCCCCCC. You'll then need to come to New Zealand to get > some 1200-year-old kauri trunks to provide timbers wide enough for > the mouth parts. Then you'll need to borrow the funnel of one of the > big "Queen" ships to make a pipe foot. Then, get a Concorde motor to > provide sufficient wind. Then, make a windchest about 25ft deep to > get sufficient expansion gap between the world's biggest magnet and > the upperboard (to be designed and made by you) to allow for good > speech.   I get your point, which that it would be highly impractical to build such = a pipe, but I hope you realize that you are exaggerating (you probably do). =   There are plenty of ways to make large items from smaller pieces of wood. =   Most windchests are considerably wider than a tree. Clever joinery making =   lengthwise splices possible has been around for centuries too. (Mitering = a wood pipe is a similar proposition)   Andy   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: 128' stops From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 09:36:43 +0000   On 12/18/04 7:26 AM, "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> = wrote:   > Could it be usable as a weapon, wiping out underground bunkers? Or could = it > have a practical and more peaceful appliance?   I don't have it any more; it went out with a hard disk several years ago.   But surely SOMEbody can send Jarle the (in)famous Fundaton writeup.   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: Greeks bearing Christmas trees, etc. From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 09:06:22 -0600     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> To: "PIPECHAT" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 1:04 AM Subject: Re: Greeks bearing Christmas trees, etc.     > > Alan Freed wrote: > > -------Original Message------- > > > They carry pussy-willow branches as they process around the > > outside of the cathedral three times on the day before Palm Sunday.   I think this was originally a Russian Orthodox rather than a Greek = Orthodox tradition, though it has spread into other branches (as it were) of the church. It celebrates the people strewing palm branches before Jesus on = his entry into Jerusalem. The Western Church commemorates this with palm branches, but there are no palm trees in Russia. Hence the pussy willow.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: Breaking news - accompanied by a roll on the drums From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 09:27:07 -0600     ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 1:52 AM Subject: RE: Breaking news - accompanied by a roll on the drums     > >Any comments about Goll, anyone? [big snip about costings]   There used to be a Goll firm in Germany, going back to the early = eighteenth century. The Swiss firm was an offshoot founded in Lucerne in 1868, = perhaps when things got a little unpleasant in Germany under Bismarck. Another slightly earlier offshoot was the Durner firm of Quakertown in the USA, founded by a Goll nephew. The Swiss Goll firm built some large organs in the early twentieth century, including a 135 stop instrument in Engelberg, but then a lot was not heard about them until recently. They seem to have undergone something of a renaissance of late and have built a number of = new instruments including one at St. Martin, Memmingen, which is by all = accounts superb. They are closer to firms like Marcussen in Denmark and von Beckerath in Hamburg in producing high quality instruments, rather than to firms like Klais who are more in the mass production market. I would imagine they would build a very fine instrument for the RCO. It is sad, though, that the British organ establishment seems prejudiced against British firms, several of which would be able to do an equally fine job.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: Breaking news - accompanied by a roll on the drums From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:03:19 -0600   By the way, there seems to be a new fashion in having organs installed in old railway stations. A superb Skinner organ was recently installed in = the railroad station in Cincinnati, for example.   The building that is to become the new headquarters of the Royal College = of Organists is the former Curzon Street Station in Birmingham. This was the original terminus of the London & Birmingham Railway, designed by Philip Hardwick and opened in 1838. It is the oldest surviving railway terminus = in the world. It has not been used as a passenger station since 1854 and was derelict for many years, so it is quite amazing that the venerable old building has survived at all. There are some photographs on a website at http://www.railaroundbirmingham.co.uk/Stations/curzon_street.php Back in the early 1980's when I lived in Birmingham, I used to see Curzon Street station out of the train window as I came into Birmingham New = Street Station from Euston or Oxford. I used to wonder if it would ever be restored, perhaps as a railway museum or something like that. I never dreamt that one day they would be building an organ in it.   Perhaps the instrument will feature a Tuba Mirabilis on 250 psi steam ...   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: 128' stops From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:11:53 EST   perhaps THIS would be the case for a digital stop? HAHAHA   Neil by the Bay  
(back) Subject: RE: 128' stops From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 06:11:05 +1300   >Ross: The earth we all stand on, according to geo-scientists resonates 30 octaves below middle C That would take quite a while between waves from the earth's core.   Ron, That means, perhaps, one of two things. Either a) I now have a reason for not sleeping at night. or b) You'd need to stand on Mars to get far away enough to hear the sound, = due to the length of the standing-wave.   Or, possibly, third, my efforts at humour are wearing a bit thin, Ross    
(back) Subject: RE: G D & B From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 06:12:42 +1300   >What's this I hear about you being so taken with biretta's, on your stay = at St Mary's, that you went straight out to buy one? For use at home in NZ? Alan   Yeah, right.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: Weird Pedal Stops From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:22:13 EST   Ross et al:   Unless I miss my guess a 32' octave beats eight times per second. That seems to be the ultimate limit to practicality. In that range the waves are more felt than heard. It causes the floor to shake, and the bottoms in the pews get a fairly decent vibrator treatment. It does produce an emotional rush and a feeling of the power of this unique instrument.   Ron    
(back) Subject: Re: Weird Pedal Stops From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:32:30 -0600     ----- Original Message ----- From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 11:22 AM Subject: Re: Weird Pedal Stops     > Ross et al: > > Unless I miss my guess a 32' octave beats eight times per second. > That seems to be the ultimate limit to practicality. In that range > the waves are more felt than heard. It causes the floor to shake, > and the bottoms in the pews get a fairly decent vibrator treatment. > It does produce an emotional rush and a feeling of the power of > this unique instrument. >   I think that is right. There is really not much point in going to the expense of a 64 ft. stop. They don't really do anything, certainly not enough to justify the expense. 64 ft. stops would be reasonably cheap to = do with electronics, but you will notice that electronic manufacturers don't = on the whole bother. (Sorry, Sydney Town Hall!) Now there might be = something to be said for including one or two of the upper notes of the 64 ft. = octave, particularly low B, which -- being not much below low C of the 32 ft. -- = is still reasonably audible. It would be quite effective in pieces like Franck's Chorale No. 2 in B minor. I think Schoenstein did something like this in one of their recent instruments.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: Weird Pedal Stops From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:42:39 -0500   I think, too, that 32' tone is a lot less necessary than seems popular = right now. Generously scaled 16's can knock your socks off just fine. I like 32's, but it seems right now that almost no organ, no matter how small, is =   allowed to get away with not having at least a 32 resultant. (I do = realize that adding the 32 resultant basically adds no cost once solid state controls are added. Its cheap, but at least it sounds nasty to make up = for it).   The 1930 Casavant I mentioned earlier really rattles the windows and it = has no 32 (in a smallish space of course).   Andy     > > I think that is right. There is really not much point in going to > the expense of a 64 ft. stop. They don't really do anything, > certainly not enough to justify the expense. 64 ft. stops would be > reasonably cheap to do with electronics, but you will notice that > electronic manufacturers don't on the whole bother. (Sorry, Sydney > Town Hall!) Now there might be something to be said for including > one or two of the upper notes of the 64 ft. octave, particularly low > B, which -- being not much below low C of the 32 ft. -- is still > reasonably audible. It would be quite effective in pieces like > Franck's Chorale No. 2 in B minor. I think Schoenstein did > something like this in one of their recent instruments. > > John Speller >   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: 128' stops From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:47:20 +0100   I'm still wondering about the effects of producing a loud (though non-audible to humans) sound in a gigantic (128'++) organ pipe. If really generously scaled, and on LOTS of wind, what would it be able do to? Could it be used as a weapon? Or for demolishing buildings?   Jarle http://jarle.moo.no  
(back) Subject: Re: Weird Pedal Stops From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:55:38 EST   Hi John:   In the parish of my youth and childhood, The organist brought in a used set of Open Woods 16' 12 pipes and a 16' trombone 12 pipes of exceptionally large scale. You could have built a cottage and two car garage with the wood that was in these pipes. It was said they were Robert Morton pipes. When the wind was up it seemed the very earth shook. Now this set of Opens was a perfect candidate for a 32' Bourdon. It shook the place at any rate almost as well as a 32' only better. The Open 16's today are more modest in scale being really a large scaled wood Violone. They are probably more useful and speak a bit quicker, but don't develop the punch of those extravagant large scales blown with copious amounts of wind.   Ron    
(back) Subject: Re: 128' stops From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 13:05:37 EST   Dear Young Jarle:   Oh the dreams of youthful imagination. What brings down buildings quite nicely without any flue at all is 256' Dynamite Regal. You lay = bundles of the stuff around an old building in strategic node places, and blow = them electrically in a certain sequence. Voila, You bring the building down. One wave per second. <Grin> Terrorists know how!   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: Greeks bearing Christmas trees, etc. From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 13:12:26 +0000   On 12/18/04 3:06 PM, "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> wrote:   > but there are no palm trees in Russia. Hence the pussy willow   Of course. I think there must be some palms in The Crimea=8Bbut, of course, that=B9s no longer part of Russia anyway.   Alan