PipeChat Digest #5018 - Monday, December 20, 2004
 
RE: Weird Pedal Stops
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
RE: Weird Pedal Stops
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
RE: Computer geeks discover the Disney organ
  by "Harry E. Martenas" <harrym@epix.net>
Re: Greeks bearing Christmas trees, etc.
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
today's music
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: Weird Pedal Stops
  by "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com>
today's prelude/postlude
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Online Didactics
  by "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net>
Re: Grosser Gott
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #5017 - 12/19/04
  by "Thomas Mohr" <thomasmohr@aon.at>
Re: 128' stops
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Catholic Grosser Gott
  by "Joe Elliffe" <jelli@tampabay.rr.com>
Re: 128' stops
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
RE: Weird Pedal Stops
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Subject: Re: The Catholic  "Grosser Gott"
  by <RSiegel920@aol.com>
Re: The Catholic St. Thomas Tune
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: The Catholic St. Thomas Tune
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
the Roman Catholic Embassy chapels of the U.K.
  by "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: The Catholic "Grosser Gott"
  by "James Edward Mackay" <ymcmlx@gmail.com>
Re: 128' stops
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Weird Pedal Stops From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:08:09 +1300   >Correct. (well, mostly :-) ) The Atlantic City stop is of Diaphone construction in its bottom octaves, and changes to Dulzian construction as =   it ascends the scale -- somewhere around 16' CCC, I believe. The difference is all in the "boots" (if you will) between the Diaphone valvular beaters vs. standard brass reed tongues/shallots   Thank you. I did not know the stop changed construction anywhere. I think = it is fair to say, though, that it was the 64ft octave we have really been talking about. If the Atlantic City behemoth has genuine diaphones for the two bottom octaves, that qualifies it to bear a diaphone label, in my book anyway, in the same way that a Wurlitzer Diaphone 16ft switches to = diapason pipes at 8ft CC but is still properly called a Diaphonic Bass.   Against that, I've several times seen Norman & Beard big-scale Swell 8ft Open Diapasons labelled "Diaphonic Diapason" when they are of normal construction, albeit of big scale, high-pressure and leathered upper lips.   Labels, labels, labels - - -   Ross    
(back) Subject: RE: Weird Pedal Stops From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:17:17 +1300   >Remember: There are no absolutes in pipe construction or nomenclature.   Well, sometimes they do get it wrong, and there are some wonderful = examples of weirdism, weirdosity. I can think of a Stopped Diapason here in NZ that is open wood MidC and above. And then we also have a Claribel in which all the pipes are stopt wood, right to the very top note. In Napier Cathedral, here in NZ, the Tuba Mirabilis knob used to control a very ordinary = stringy flue. St John Presby. in Wellington had 2ft Fifteenth which was clearly labelled "4ft Flute", as TCLewis (the builder, from the 1880s) was = convinced the organ needed a Sw.2ft, ad the church demanded a 4ft Flute. Right = through till I pointed out the discrepancy in 1960, the church organists had been convinced that had merely a very bright 4ft. I kid you not.   Sometimes I wonder if the term "Lieblich" should be used when the stop is awful, in fact anything but lovely.   Oh, I'd better stop reminiscing......   Ross        
(back) Subject: RE: Computer geeks discover the Disney organ From: "Harry E. Martenas" <harrym@epix.net> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 19:28:43 -0500   > Now if we can garner more interest from > this group, > >then the survival of the organ looks much less bleak. > > > >http://www.boingboing.net/2004/12/17/geeking_out_over_geh.html   Thanks to TommyLee and David. The links from that website are excellent - some of the better information to be published about the instrument - highly recommended.   Harry      
(back) Subject: Re: Greeks bearing Christmas trees, etc. From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 19:48:25 +0000   On 12/18/04 7:04 AM, "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> = wrote:   >> They carry pussy-willow branches as they process around the outside of = the >> cathedral three times on the day before Palm Sunday. > > Why?? > > Faithfully, > > Rich   Oh, I guess just because it's what they could lay their hands on. It = seemed "fitting." My last visit there was Holy Week 1960, when the (new) = cathedral was brand new. I didn't ask "why?"   Alan    
(back) Subject: today's music From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 19:53:59 EST   prelude: bach, "wachet auf," from cantata #140   hymns: sleepers, wake o come, o come emmanuel lo, how a rose is blooming   anthem: rutter, what sweeter music   postlude: widor, "march of the night watchmen," from bach's memento  
(back) Subject: Re: Weird Pedal Stops From: "Jim McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:02:23 -0500     > On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:01:28 +1300 "TheShieling"   > Ross:     By the way, I forgot to mention that there are 80 pipes in the rank. Originally it was to have been dual-tone with large and small beaters in the bass. (Different character and volume, supposedly justifying the Dulzian name for the one set.) At one time, even triple tone was considered. There were all sorts of experiments ending in one failure after another. I believe they finally gave up and used the one bass.     Jim       > > > Call it what you will or won't, the stop IS a full length metal > Dulzian > by name. The bottom 22 pipes are of Diaphone construction, the > remainder > full length reeds of normal construction. > > As far as your definition, I know of full length metal Dulzians, > full > length metal Dulzians with half length basses, and more > importantly, > hundreds of examples constructed of wood of various lengths. > > > Remember: There are no absolutes in pipe construction or > nomenclature. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > "Weaseling out of things is an important skill to learn. Its what > separates us from the animals. Except the weasel" > --Homer Simpson > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related > topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > >         "Weaseling out of things is an important skill to learn. Its what separates us from the animals. Except the weasel" --Homer Simpson  
(back) Subject: today's prelude/postlude From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 19:04:50 -0600   Prelude: Jean Bouvard--Noel Vosgien   Postlude: Robert Lind--Prepare the Royal Highway   Bob Lind  
(back) Subject: Online Didactics From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:07:32 -0500   List,   I'm tossing around the wild idea that - if I do it - won't be initiated = for a couple more years, but I'd like some advice.   During college, I agonized several times over whether or not to choose medicine or music for a career. I do feel that I've been gifted in music. During high school, I would listen to some LPs and dream of "Keith = Zimmerman and his orchestra and choir". Anyway, I made the decision to pursue medicine. Unfortunately, the music got pushed so far onto the back burner that I could barely reach it sometimes. Nevertheless, since I feel like = my talent was a gift from God, I've continued to try to do what I could at whatever church I attended.   Lately, after practicing medicine for 17 years, I'm tossing around the = idea of a career change. What a thing to consider when one's eldest of three children is in her first year of college!!! Anyway, I've been toying with the idea of discontinuing the private practice of medicine and working shifts in the Emergency Room. Believe it or not, averaging a 24 hr + a 12 hr shift each week would not necessitate a decrease in my income.   I made sure that I opened my medical practice near a college that had a music department with the hope that I would, one day, be able to take some music courses. The University of Georgia is 20 miles away from me. I've considered going back to school - while working ER - to pursue the B.M.E. that I had originally considered. I'd want to major in piano and minor in organ. Perhaps after finishing, I'd be qualified to teach music or = science.   I'm hoping that I could receive credit for most of the "core" curriculum from courses I took at Emory in obtaining my B.S. in Biology - but that = was in 1980!!   I was wondering if there are some "back door" approaches to taking a few = of the basic courses - such as Music History and some Basic Theory. I had = some information from a Niagara Falls School of Music Correspondence Course, = but that wasn't online at the time. I saw something from Eastman School of Music having some online courses.   I would appreciate hearing some specifics of any "reputable" online = sources of Music Education.   Thanks, and Merry Christmas, Keith Zimmerman    
(back) Subject: Re: Grosser Gott From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:33:31 EST   I was taught to play the hymn with the repeat and the ornaments or "flips" = in it. My first church position was in a primarily Italian Catholic church = in California, and my first organ teacher was the music director there. He originally was from New Jersey and that's how he had been taught to sing = and play the hymn. The Catholic side of my family all sings the hymn that way at = their church in Connecticut. So, it is a widespread practice here in the US at least. I"ve taught some of my Protestant churches to do the repeats, but = not the ornaments.   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #5017 - 12/19/04 From: "Thomas Mohr" <thomasmohr@aon.at> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 02:33:48 +0100   Am Montag, 20. Dezember 2004 01:05 schrieben Sie:   > Subject: Re: The Catholic "Grosser Gott" > From: "Stephen Best" <stevebest@usadatanet.net> > Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 08:41:17 -0500 > > This is definitely not a "US resp. protestant specific alteration." I > have taught a great many Catholic organists for the diocese in my area, > and in virtually all of their congregations the last 8 measures are > repeated and the "ornaments" added.=20   Dear Mr Best,   with all respect, I have heard "Grosser Gott wir loben Dich" at many occasi= ons=20 in Germany and Austria by such renowned Organists as Peter Planyavski, the= =20 Haselb=F6cks, Gailit and many others. They do not play the repetition or=20 ornaments (except maybe an improvisation). I myself did the same. The=20 original edition by Maria Theresia is available in the National Library of= =20 Austria just 30' by foot from where I work. It does not contain the=20 repetition. Composers like Max Reger composed Preludes for it. These=20 compositions do not contain the repetition. The current German hymnbook, th= e=20 "Gotteslob" which is the joint work of many important Catholic German=20 organists and compulsory for all Catholic German congregations in Europe do= es=20 neither contain the repetition nor the ornamentations. Neither do the=20 predecessors of this hymnal the "Betende Gemeinde" or similar. I have never= =20 ever heard this repetion of the last 8 measures except for the last verse.   Taken together with Mr. Stoutenburgs post this leads me to the conclusion t= hat=20 the repeated measures where indeed a practice of a few congreagation which= =20 spread through the US. In German speaking Europe this is unknown.   regards, Thomas=20 =2D-=20 DI Thomas Mohr Institute for Cancer Research Medical University of Vienna Borschkegasse 8a A-1090 Vienna   ++43 1 4277 65160  
(back) Subject: Re: 128' stops From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:37:29 +0000   On 12/18/04 8:07 PM, "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:   > Apparently, low frequency sound makes human beings become disorientated a= nd > neauseus. >=20 > Working on it Jarle. >=20 I don't know, Colin. Shouldn't somebody be checking into Jarle's political proclivities before he gets "armed" beyond the point of our being able to regretfully withdraw from such military advisory roles? Just think back t= o that LAST time those Vikings visited Britain!   Alan   (P.S.: More likely =B3nauseated=B2 than =B3nauseous.=B2 That which is the latter causes the former.)  
(back) Subject: Catholic Grosser Gott From: "Joe Elliffe" <jelli@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 21:24:25 -0500   Most of us long time Catholic organists were raised with the St Basil = Hymnal- The repeats and ornaments are in the music as written- I just = looked at my ancient hymnal and #3- Holy God We Praise Thy Name lists = Rev. C. Walworth for lyrics and P. Ritter for music- That's the one I = was raised with and I still play it that way
(back) Subject: Re: 128' stops From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 22:32:43 EST   Alan: Hand on hip: Are you in otherwords calli' that young fellow Jarle. Some kind a terrorist. Sweds, Norwegians, And Danes are very nice people until they put on those horned helmits and scut along on those little dragon ships of theirs. Jarle, you don't emit those blood curdling war cries do you? You're just a garden variety organ freak, right? At the tender age of fifteen, right? <GRIN> Ron the short horned bad boy  
(back) Subject: RE: Weird Pedal Stops From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:01:25 -0500   > used to control a very ordinary stringy flue. St John Presby. in > Wellington had 2ft Fifteenth which was clearly labelled "4ft Flute", > as TCLewis (the builder, from the 1880s) was convinced the organ > needed a Sw.2ft, ad the church demanded a 4ft Flute. Right through > till I pointed out the discrepancy in 1960, the church organists had > been convinced that had merely a very bright 4ft. I kid you not. > I think a lot of weirdisms in organs can be explained by the builder and organist/committee/consultant disagreeing on something. Andy     A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Subject: Re: The Catholic "Grosser Gott" From: <RSiegel920@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:26:24 EST   A review of several Catholic hymnals reveals the following: Catholic Book of Worship- 1966 DOES have the repeat The New St. Rose Hymnal- 1958 Does NOT have the repeat The Pius X Hymnal-1953 DOES have the repeat Our Parish Prays and Sings- 1959 DOES have the repeat Worship II- 1975 Does NOT have the repeat No pattern here:) regards Dick Siegel  
(back) Subject: Re: The Catholic St. Thomas Tune From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:33:12 EST   Bud: I have noticed that the St. Thomas tune in Episcopal hymns is different in the last two measures to the Tantuum Ergo in The RC hymnals. Is it just to be different. This has bothered me because the RC version sounds so right. Looking for enlightenment. Ron  
(back) Subject: Re: The Catholic St. Thomas Tune From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:58:14 -0800   I discovered that in the midst of playing for my first RC Benediction service in 1962 (grin). I was playing it from memory.   Sir Richard Terry speaks of this in his "Complete Benediction Book for Choirs" ... I have a reprint on the way ... he notes that choirs, congregations, and organists made many "improvements" to tunes over the years, including the "penny postman's knock" in the later versions of Abbe Duguet's "O Salutaris" tune. The original was in even notes; the "knock" can be seen in the version in St. Basil's Hymnal, based on the theory that accented syllables should be held longer.   The English Hymnal (1906) has the same version of St. Thomas as the American Episcopal Hymnal 1940 ... since TEH's musical editor was RVW, and the stated editorial policy was to use the ORIGINAL versions of texts and tunes, I suspect it's the RC version that's the later abberation, but one would have to check S. Webbe's "An Essay On The Church Plainchant" (where it was published originally) in order to be absolutely sure.   Cheers,   Bud   RonSeverin@aol.com wrote:   > Bud: > > I have noticed that the St. Thomas tune in Episcopal hymns is different > in the last two measures to the Tantuum Ergo in The RC hymnals. > Is it just to be different. This has bothered me because the RC version > sounds so right. > > Looking for enlightenment. > > Ron >    
(back) Subject: the Roman Catholic Embassy chapels of the U.K. From: "Liquescent" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 21:04:19 -0800   I'm sure somebody has written about the organists, organs, and music of the Roman Catholic Embassy chapels in London prior to the Act of Toleration, but I've never come across anything much. It's a fascinating period of English RC church music; evidently the musical establishments were such that they could mount a performance of the Mozart Requiem for Spohr's (?) funeral. Was it the "Catholic Wesley" (S.S.) who was organist at the Portuguese Embassy chapel?   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: The Catholic "Grosser Gott" From: "James Edward Mackay" <ymcmlx@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 22:59:32 -0600   I did a review of hymnals. They're listed by date of publication.   James Mackay   TUNE =E2=80=94 GROSSER GOTT, 78 78 77 [77]   CELEBRATING THE EUCHARIST SACRED SONG 2005 (Roman Catholic) -- Hymn-tune listed as TE DEUM (GROSSER GOTT), 78 78 77 77 -- No 568, 4 vv -- last eight measures repeated (not optional) Text: Ignaz Franz, 1719-1790, Attr.; tr. Clarence Augustus Walworth, 1820-1900 Music: Katholisches Gesangbuch, alt. Cantate, 1851 Liturgical Press, Collegeville, Minn., 2004   BREAKING BREAD 2003 (Roman Catholic) -- No 218, 3 vv -- last eight measures repeated (not optional) Text: Te Deum laudamus, ca. 3rd cent.; Grosser Gott, wir loben dich, tr. ascr. to Ignaz Franz, 1719-1790; tr. by Clarence A. Walworth, 1820-1900. Music: _Katholisches Gesangbuch_, Vienna, ca. 1774. OCP Publications, Portland, Ore., 2002   WE CELEBRATE HYMNAL (Roman Catholic) -- No 563, 4 vv -- optional repeat of last eight measures Text: Te Deum; Attr to Ignaz Franz, 1719-1790; Tr. by Clarence A. Walworth, 1820-1900 Tune: _Allgemeines Katholisches Gesangbuch_, Vienna, 1774 World Library Publications, Schiller Park, Ill., 1997   RITUAL SONG (Roman Catholic) -- No 657, 3 vv -- last eight measures repeat ad lib. Text: Grosser Gott, wir loben dich; ascr to Ignaz Franz, 1719-1790; tr. by Clarence Walworth, 1820-1900. Tune: _Katholisches Gesangbuch_, Vienna, c. 1774 GIA Publications Inc, Chicago, 1996   GATHER COMPREHENSIVE (Roman Catholic) -- No 524, 3 vv -- optional repeat of last eight measures Text: Grosser Gott, wir loben dich; ascr to Ignaz Franz, 1719-1790; tr. by Clarence Walworth, 1820-1900. Tune: _Katholisches Gesangbuch_, Vienna, c. 1774 GIA Publications Inc, 1994   THE COLLEGEVILLE HYMNAL (Roman Catholic) -- Hymn-tune listed as TE DEUM (GROSSER GOTT), 78 78 77 77 -- No 568, 4 vv -- last eight measures repeated (not optional) Text: Ignaz Franz, 1719-1790, Attr.; tr. Clarence Augustus Walworth, 1820-1900 Music: Katholisches Gesangbuch, alt. Cantate, 1851; arr. Sr. Theophane Hytrek, O.S.F. (c) Liturgical Press, 1990   THE UNITED METHODIST HYMNAL BOOK OF UNITED METHODIST WORSHIP -- No 79, 7 vv; vv 5-7 may be omitted -- last eight measures not repeated Words: Sts. 1-4, Ignaz Franz, 18th cent.; trans. by Clarence Walworth, 1853; sts. 5-7, F. Bland Tucker, 1982 Music: _Katholisches Gesangbuch_, ca. 1774 The United Methodist Publishing House, Nashville, Tenn., 1989   THE HYMNAL 1982 (Episcopalian/Anglican) -- No 366, 7 vv; vv 5-7 may be omitted -- no repeat of last eight measures Words: Para. of _Te Deum_, Sts. 1-4, Ignaz Franz (1719-1790); tr. Clarence Walworth (1820-1900). Sts. 5-7, F. Bland Tucker (1895-198= 4) Music: Melody from Katholisches Gesangbuch, 1686; alt. _Cantate_, 1851; harm. Charles Winfred Douglas (1867-1944), after Conrad Kocher (1786-1872) Church Publishing Inc., New York City, 1985   THE SUMMIT CHOIRBOOK (Roman Catholic) -- Hymn-tune listed as GROSSER GOTT (MARIA THERESA) -- No 267, 5 vv -- no repeat of last eight measures Text: Grosser Gott, a German metrical Te Deum, source unknown; translation by Clarence a. Walworth (1820-1900), one stanza omitted Tune: _katholisches Gesangbuch_, Vienna (1774-1780); altered by H. Bone in _Cantate_ (1852) The Dominican Nuns, Monastery of Our Lady of the Rosary, Summit, N.J., 1983   LUTHERAN WORSHIP (Lutheran=E2=80=94Missouri Synod) -- No 171, 5 vv -- no repeat of last eight measures Text: source unknown; tr. Clarence A. Walworth, 1820-1900, alt. Tune: Maria Theresa, _Katholisches Gesangbuch_, 1774 Concordia Publishing House, Saint Louis, Mo., 1982   LUTHERAN BOOK OF WORSHIP (Lutheran) -- No 535, 4 vv -- no repeat of last eight measures Text: source unknown; tr. Clarence A. Walworth, 1820-1900, alt. Tune: Maria Theresa, _Katholisches Gesangbuch_, 1774 Augsburg Fortress, Minneapolis, 1978   SERVICE BOOK AND HYMNAL (Lutheran) -- Hymn-tune listed as TE DEUM (GROSSER GOTT) -- No 167, 4 vv -- no repeat of last eight measures Text: German, XVIII cent.; Tr. Clarence A. Walworth, 1820-1900 Tune: _Allgemeines Katholisches Gesangbuch_, Vienna, 1774 Augsburg Fortress, 1958   THE PILGRIM HYMNAL (United Church of Christ) -- No 247, 4 vv -- no repeat of last eight measures Text: Attr. to Ignaz Franz, 1719-1790; Tr. Clarence Walworth, 1810-1900, a= lt. Tune: _Katholisches Gesangbuch_, Vienna, c. 1774 The Pilgrim Press, Boston, 1958   THE HYMNAL 1940 (Episcopalian/Anglican) -- Hymn-tune listed as TE DEUM -- No 273, 3 vv -- no repeat of last eight measures Text: Ignaz Franz, c. 1774; Hymnal Version, 1940 Tune: Later form; Melody, pub. Vienna, c. 1774 Church Publishing Inc, 1940   Following is the entry for GROSSER GOTT from _Lutheran Worship: Hymnal Companion_.   For many years The Hymnal 1940 (then Church Hymnal Corp.) and its successor, The Hymnal 1982, of The Episcopal Church (now Church Publishing Inc.) were the reference standard for the American Guild of Organists' certification exams. There are companion/explanatory volumes available for both of these hymnals. The entry for GROSSER GOTT might be more extensive than the following.   LUTHERAN WORSHIP: HYMNAL COMPANION (Lutheran=E2=80=94Missouri Synod) Fred L. Precht Concordia Publishing House, 1992   Text -- This is a portion of the very popular versified German _Te Deum_, "Grosser Gott, wir loben dich," that appeared, together with the tune, in eight stanzas in the _Katholisches Gesangbuch_, published in Vienna in 1774 at the request of the Austrain Empress Maria Theresa, a devout Roman Catholic and an important political figure in 18th-century Europe. Although both author and composer are unknown, the hymn became immediately popular as was included in, among others, _Catholic Hymns_ (Albany, 1860), _The Catholic Psalmist_ (Dublin, 1858), and Alfred Young's _Complete Sodalist's Manual and Hymn Book (1863). It became used in Protestant denominations int he United States through its appearance in Hall and Lasar's _Evangelical Hymnal_ (New York, 1880), in the translation by Clarence A. Walworth, which bore the date of 1853. It is his translation, altered and updated, that appears in _Lutheran Worship_ (1982). It is said that Walworth's lines were inspired by the singing of "Grosser Gott, wir loben dich" tat he heard on pilgrimages during his seminary days in Belgium.   Tune -- GROSSER GOTT (TE DEUM) is the anonymous tune that appeared with "Grosser Gott, wir loben dich" in the _Katholisches Gesangbuch_ mentioned above. There, according to B=C3=A3umker (III, 219, p. 285)=E2=80= =A0, it went thus:   <two lines of music in 6/8 (no repeat of last eight measures); words set in Fraktur>*   This tune has seen its share of variants (B=C3=A3umker, III, 219, pp. 286-87). Its present form is from Johann G. Schicht's _Allgemeines Choral-Buch f=C3=BCr Kirchen, Schulen, Gesangvereine, Orgel-und Piano forte-Spieler_, published in Leipzig in 1819 (Zahn 3495).   The harmonization in _Lutheran Worship_ is from _The Worshipbook: Services and Hymns_ (Westminster, 1972).   This metrical setting of the Te Deum can occasionally well serve as a substitute for the prose setting (_LW_, canticle 8). This applies also to a lesser known version, namely "We Worship You, O God of Might" (_LW_ 199). . . . [final paragraph omitted]   * The music is in 6/8 with no repeat of the last eight measures. While the tune is clearly recognizable as the modern-day GROSSER GOTT there are certainly variations that have been made in today's rendering. If you do not have access to _Lutheran Worship: Hymnal Companion_, I can mail a copy to you (surface mail) of the two lines of music, which would be in the public domain. Email me with your address at my work e-address: <organist@att.net>.   =E2=80=A0 B=C3=A3umker, Wilhelm. _Das katholische deutsche Kirchenlied in seinen Singweisen_, reprint of 1883-1911 ed. 2 vols. Hildesheim: Georg Olms Verlagsbuchhandlung, 1962.   =E2=80=A1 I believe this references Westminster John Knox Press, an imprint of Presbyterian Publishing Corp., Louisville, Ky.   SONGS FOR CELEBRATION (Roman Catholic) -- Hymn-tune listed as GROSSER GOTT (TE DEUM) -- No 100, 4 vv -- last eight measures marked as repeat; could be omitted Text: Ignaz Franz, 1719-1790; Tr. by Clarence A. Walworth, 1820- 1900 Tune: Adap. from _Katholisches Gesangbuch_, Vienna, c. 1774 Diocese of Crookston, Crookston, Minn., 1984   GLORY & PRAISE, SECOND EDITION (Roman Catholic) -- No 181, 4 vv -- last eight measures repeated (not optional) Text: Te Deum laudamus, ca. 34d cent; Grosser Gott, wir loben dich, ascr. to Ignaz Franz, 1719-1790, tr. by Clarence A. Walworth, 1820-1900 Music: _Katholisches Gesangbuch_, Vienna, ca. 1774 Oregon Catholic Press, Portland, Ore., 1998   JOURNEYSONGS (Roman Catholic) -- No 343, 3 vv -- last eight measures repeated and fully printed Text: ascr. to Ignaz Franz, 1719-1790; tr. by Clarence Walworth, 1820-1900 Music: _Katholisches Gesangbuch_, Vienna, c. 1774 OCP Publications, Portland, Ore., 1994   HYMNS FOR THE FAMILY OF GOD Fred Bock, ed. -- No 385, 3 vv -- last eight measures not repeated Text: Attr. to Ignaz Franz; Tr. by Clarence A. Walworth Tune: _Allgemeines Katholisches Gesangbuch_ Paragon Associates, Inc. (now Brentwood-Benson Music Publishing), Nashville, Tenn., 1976   ICEL RESOURCE COLLECTION OF HYMNS AND SERVICE MUSIC FOR THE LITURGY (Roman Catholic) -- Hymn-tune listed as GROSSER GOTT (TE DEUM) -- No 134, 4 vv -- last eight measures marked with repeat signs Text: Latin: Te Deum laudamus; German: Grosser Gott, wir loben dich, Ignaz Franz, 1719-1790, in _Katholisches Gesangbuch_, Vienna, c. 1774, tr. by Clarence Alphonsus Walworth, 1820-1900, in _Catholic Psalmist_, 1858 Tune: Melody adapted from _Katholisches Gesangbuch_, Vienna, c. 1774 GIA Publications, Inc.   On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 22:42:01 -0600, Alicia Zeilenga <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> wrote: <snip>   JAMES EDWARD MACKAY <ymcmlx@gmail.com> <organist@att.net> Fargo, North Dakota  
(back) Subject: Re: 128' stops From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 21:57:00 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Being excellent businessmen, Yorkshiremen turned rape and pillage into a blockbuster museum at York; the "Jorvik" exhibition. It collects a lot of cash.   The Jorvik Museum features "sounds and smells" of the ancient Vikings, and they didn't smell too good.   Talk about nauseus!   The York Minster Tuba Mirabilus should frighten them off.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       --- Alan Freed <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> wrote:   > > > I don't know, Colin. Shouldn't somebody be checking > into Jarle's political > proclivities before he gets "armed" beyond the point > of our being able to > regretfully withdraw from such military advisory > roles? Just think back to > that LAST time those Vikings visited Britain!       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250