PipeChat Digest #5037 - Tuesday, December 28, 2004
 
Re: Organ Pieces
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Organ Pieces
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Holy Name
  by "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net>
Philosophy of organ learning (was Re: Organ Pieces)
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Philosophy of organ learning (was Re: Organ Pieces)
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Philosophy of organ learning (was Re: Organ Pieces)
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Are we blaming rooms too much?
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Tonal Fnishing
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: RC churches in Washington DC
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Pittsford Vt
  by "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
Dogs in Church
  by "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com>
Re: Dogs in Church
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
sound system and reverb
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: fake acoustics
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
clergy and organists
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: fake acoustics
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
The Hall of the Great Organ - video (crosspost)
  by "Vic Ferrer" <vic@vicferrerproductions.com>
Re: sound system and reverb
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: Marcel at the movies
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Organ Pieces From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:14:40 EST     In a message dated 12/27/04 9:03:03 AM, dominicscullion@email.com writes:     >=20 >=20 > =A0 > I have not been playing the organ for too long and would like to build my= =20 > repertoire. > =A0 > Can anyone suggest any relatively simple or easy to learn organ pieces=20 > suitable for recessional voluntaries? Preferably by Bach but any composer=20= would=20 > be great. > =A0 > Regards. >=20   Dear Dominic- The best book to       Gregory Ceurvorst 1921 Sherman Ave. #GS Evanston, IL 60201 847.332.2788 home/fax 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com gfc234@nextel.blackberry.net  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Pieces From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:26:32 EST     In a message dated 12/27/04 9:03:03 AM, dominicscullion@email.com writes:     >=20 >=20 > =A0 > I have not been playing the organ for too long and would like to build my= =20 > repertoire. > =A0 > Can anyone suggest any relatively simple or easy to learn organ pieces=20 > suitable for recessional voluntaries? Preferably by Bach but any composer=20= would=20 > be great. > =A0 > Regards. >=20   lets try again!   Dominic- The best book to obtain is called, Organ Technique, Modern and Early-it is b= y=20 George Ritchie and George Stauffer. You can find it on Amazon for about=20 twenty dollars. I recently had to review all of the available methods for=20= an=20 organ pedagogy class-and this BY FAR beats the other books (including the=20 Gleason)-it includes several pieces of varying difficulty, pages and pages o= f=20 writing on German, French, and American Organs, the Lemmens Ecole D'Orgue=20 excercises-AS WELL AS EARLY TECHNIQUE excercises, concepts, and practices. =20= So..in=20 addition to being a great resource for excercises and literature, it is also= a=20 great read-I own a copy for reference.   My best advice is to order the book as soon as possible-and to contact the=20 organ professor at your local university. In the meantime-work on the Mode= rn=20 section of pedal and manual technique exercises--sitting erect and relaxed,=20 moving AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE, going very slowly, playing on the inside of yo= ur=20 feet, keeping RELAXED, and having fun! =20 Practice the pedal exercises on a 4' oktave stop-and be sure to obtain and=20 absolute legato. At the end of a long work out, reward yourself by playing= the=20 exercise slightly more rapidly, and on a fuller registration including 16'=20 and 8' stops. But remember, that is the reward.   Theres my 10,000 dollars worth. Call me if you need more advice! Peace, gfc         Gregory Ceurvorst 1921 Sherman Ave. #GS Evanston, IL 60201 847.332.2788 home/fax 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com gfc234@nextel.blackberry.net  
(back) Subject: Holy Name From: "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:57:01 -0800   There was indeed research done on how to improve the room's sound. One of the problems appears to be the vast, deeply coffered, steeply pitched wood ceiling...it's too flexible and would cost mucho bucks to reinforce, if it is indeed possible. The wall-to-wall carpeting was removed a few years back, and a "resin" flooring put in under to pews. The carpeting was never thick to begin with, and the subflooring is concrete. The room is a tad better than before, but not good enough.   The telling thing about the Flentrop is that the Ruckpositif projects into the room, as it should, but the other divisions just don't match it. And to be fair to Proulx, there were other organists involved in the organ search, and these were "name" folks. I was told a "roundabout" comment that Flentrop wanted to put combination action on the instrument and was rebuffed...not sure if this is true.   As others have said, a builder needs to know how to deal with a bad room, and design accordingly. Given that, how many builders will walk away from a big job like Holy Name, knowing that what the customer wants is not the best thing? Comments from builders???    
(back) Subject: Philosophy of organ learning (was Re: Organ Pieces) From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:58:35 +0100   Gregory wrote: > Practice the pedal exercises on a 4' oktave stop-and be sure to obtain = and > absolute legato. At the end of a long work out, reward yourself by = playing the > exercise slightly more rapidly, and on a fuller registration including = 16' > and 8' stops. But remember, that is the reward. That may work, and definitely has worked, well for many. However, I wouldn't be able to stand it a day. I keep rewarding myself all the time, playing music I really can't play, practising on full organ if I feel like it, simply having fun. Still, I work hard, but _only_ because of the pure joy of doing so. If the day comes when playing the organ isn't fun anymore, I'll just do something else.   Sloppyness? Inseriousity? You name it; I'm enjoying it!   Jarle http://jarle.moo.no    
(back) Subject: Re: Philosophy of organ learning (was Re: Organ Pieces) From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:11:36 EST     In a message dated 12/27/04 4:59:28 PM, jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk = writes:     > That may work, and definitely has worked, well for many. However, I > wouldn't be able to stand it a day. I keep rewarding myself all the > time, playing music I really can't play, practising on full organ if I > feel like it, simply having fun. Still, I work hard, but _only_ because > of the pure joy of doing so. If the day comes when playing the organ > isn't fun anymore, I'll just do something else. > > Sloppyness? Inseriousity? You name it; I'm enjoying it! > > Jarle > http://jarle.moo.no > >   Dear Jarle, The point I was making is that wasting time and energy-and developing poor =   practice habits will effect the student's future in a most negative = way-because it creates ANOTHER hurdle to jump over--We all know that that is the last thing an organist needs is more work. Chances are that our friend = Dominic will get hooked on the organ and want to study it in school...therefore..do it = right the first time- so that solid technique, and time effective practice = habits are formed-resulting in music that gets learned faster, and = better-allowing more time for fun...but first--work work work--and short term, small, and = easily accomplishable projects--such as learning 3 or 4 pages of pedal exercises perfectly per week ...ETC gfc-       Gregory Ceurvorst 1921 Sherman Ave. #GS Evanston, IL 60201 847.332.2788 home/fax 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com gfc234@nextel.blackberry.net  
(back) Subject: Re: Philosophy of organ learning (was Re: Organ Pieces) From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:57:59 +0100   Gfc234@aol.com wrote: > Dear Jarle, > The point I was making is that wasting time and energy-and developing = poor > practice habits will effect the student's future in a most negative = way-because > it creates ANOTHER hurdle to jump over--We all know that that is the = last > thing an organist needs is more work. Chances are that our friend = Dominic will > get hooked on the organ and want to study it in school...therefore..do = it right > the first time- so that solid technique, and time effective practice = habits > are formed-resulting in music that gets learned faster, and = better-allowing > more time for fun...but first--work work work--and short term, small, = and easily > accomplishable projects--such as learning 3 or 4 pages of pedal = exercises > perfectly per week ...ETC Looks like we're dealing with very different philosophies here. I always thought it was better to first make a mistake, analyze it, then correct it, than "getting it right" the first time. Why? Because if you get it "right" at once it may be pretty difficult to know what you're doing! Also, as these lists prove every day, there's usually more than one "right" option.   Being forced to do nothing but scales and arpeggios on 4' stops, with the "reward" being doing them a little faster on fuller registration at the end of the session, *MAY* be disastrous. Teaching has to be adjusted individually, two different students are most likely to be -- different.   My own technique is far, far from perfect, but it's getting better all the time. I've barely played any etudes at all. However, I began playing fugues from the WTC at a stage where I really should be playing nothing but simple Mozart menuets. Of course I had no chance whatsoever to master them with my limited technical abilities, but I tried, and it was fun. I never even sat down to learn a fugue slowly, note by note, voice by voice, measure by measure, but played directly from the score at full tempo. Several hours a day. All the time finding myself a new challenge, without having mastered the previous one.   Bad practice habits? Many would say so. What did I gain? Exactly what I had practiced -- *extremely useful* sight-reading abilities, especially for complicated counterpoint. I have no problems playing a 4-stave open score or a 5-voice fugue well on first sight, or a hymn for that matter. Technical improvements have come almost automatically as I've continously expanded my repertoire.   That's my way of doing things, and it works very well for me. I'm sure it wouldn't work for everybody else, but I think that's true of most such "ways".   Jarle  
(back) Subject: Re: Are we blaming rooms too much? From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:29:02 -0500   This is a good point, and perhaps it could go the other way too. How many =   times have we praised nasty organs as wonderful because they enjoy good accoustics? And worst of all, copied them for use in dry rooms.   Andy   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Tonal Fnishing From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:30:01 EST   >Maybe we should stop buying instruments from firms whose write-ups in the =   >trade journals say, "The installation, voicing, and tonal finishing of = the >52-rank instrument took two weeks. The organ features 112 square feet of = oak >casework, 128 levels of memory, an adjustable bench, and music rack and pedal lights >with separate on/off switches."   One company we talked to told me that they could install and finish an instrument of our size (at the time, the stoplist hadn't been drawn up, = but I knew that we were looking at around 150 ranks) in under 12 weeks. There's no = way that an organ of over 100 ranks can be installed and voiced in less than = 12 weeks--no way possible, IF IT'S DONE PROPERLY.   I have seen several church websites lately who have also had sizeable 3 manual organs installed by some major midwestern builders who installed = the organs and had them voiced within a week or two. That's not voicing or finishing....that's slapping them in and getting them playing. I wouldn't = be proud of that if I was part of that company. It just goes to show that people will = accept mediocrity and not even question it, and I wonder if it is because they = don't know better (which I suspect) or because they just don't care. Perhaps = it's a combination of the two.   Congregations should not accept the organ until it is 100% correct--everything is in balance, mechanicals are all working properly, = etc. There is a new organ in NC that is having problems with it's solid state system, and the interim organist (who is a college professor in organ) told me that the = balances on the organ are all out of whack--the Great is underscaled compared to the Swell, the reeds obliterate the Principal choruses. She was not allowed = to play the organ when it was first installed, the organ committee chairman just accepted the instrument on behalf of the church. Now the organ is the = church's. I've heard from people who have heard the instrument in person that no one = is super impressed with the organ. The organ company is having people come = and take a look at why the solid state system is acting up, but they are not going = to do anything at this point about the voicing, because it's been accepted by = the church. The interim organist is not staying to be the organist, but this = is a case of where the church didn't have a clue what to do, and they just = did what they wanted, without the consultant's help or the organist's input. = Now they're up a creek.   Of course preliminary voicing will be done by any builder, but to install organs that are almost totally voiced at the shop is a sham in my book. = Even digital organs are voiced in a church or hall or residence. If digital = organs can be voiced note by note, why are pipe organ companies happy with just installing an organ and calling it a day? It's no wonder that people = complain that the organ is too loud--it's because the ranks aren't finished to the room. = They're voiced to the voicing room at the shop.   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: RC churches in Washington DC From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:03:15 EST   In a message dated 12/26/2004 5:59:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes: Of which the story is told that (in the 1970s, when it was new) a pious=20 Italian lady entered, knelt in an obscure pew, and prayed. And was rewarded= by a=20 visitation from the BVM HerSelf. Lady looked up, and asked, =E2=80=9CWhat c= an I do for=20 you, Blessed Mother?=E2=80=9D BVM replied: =E2=80=9CI should like for you=20= to build for me,=20 in this place, a beautiful church.=E2=80=9D   End of story. =20 NOt sure about that story...not to say it isn't true, BUT the Shrine=20 (officially the Basillica) was completed in the early 1960's as far as the e= xternal=20 construction is concerned, sporting a hugh mosaic-covered dome which can be=20= see=20 for quite some distance...the marbeling on the interior of the main (upstair= s)=20 Basillica nave was completed in the early 1980's. To bring this on topic, th= e=20 Organs of the Shrine are a pair of MOller organs, given in honor of the WW2=20 Catholic Chaplains (large plaque under the "Pontifical" Trumpet (the first u= se=20 of Bronze resonators in an en chemade, voiced by Adolf Zacik)). The Gallery=20 organ was enlarged/rebuilt by Goulding & Wood a few years ago, the organ nea= r=20 the High Altar is 3m 50-some rks.   Rick in VA (used to visit the Shrine frequently, played there for my RC High= =20 School Mass (Archbishop Carroll HS, Washington DC, which is 3 blocks from th= e=20 Shrine.)  
(back) Subject: Pittsford Vt From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:09:12 -0500   Hi Paul and list. The Pittsford Methodist Church Vermont tracker dates from about 1850. It is listed as having been rebuilt c1890 by George Stevens, and possibly originally built also by him. I visited it one time to see if it might be a J. P. Whitney like mine, but that was ruled out. It came in the1800's from Springfield MA "Congregational Church". Since Jonas Prescott Whitney built a fairly large tracker for the Springfield Congregational Church in the middle 1840's, I was curious to see if this was it. We ruled that out. BTW a warning - the interior of the organ is full of bat droppings and it hadn't been maintained for a number of years. The organist was still using it every Sunday, and it was in terrible shape. This was about 11 or so years ago that I was there. The Congregational Church up the street had = an E. L. Holbrook tracker 2 M. the blower was retained when Estey put in a 1950 EP Opus 3179 which is still there, in the walls. In Brandon up the road, the same organist who played the Pittsford Methodist also did a second service at that Methodist Church, it has a = 1935 Hook & Hastings Opus 2611, one of their last ones, which was in good condition, it is a rebuild of a J. W. Steere & Son of 1898 2 M. EP in the Steere case. Judy Ollikkala  
(back) Subject: Dogs in Church From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:34:10 -0800   =3D-> There was, for example, the time when "Winnie" (guide-dog to one of my Sopranos) fell asleep during the sermon and slipped off the choir riser (a fall of only about eight inches) and squealed, waking in a panic, complete with all the shaking and sneezing and tinkling of chains that accompanies a dog startled. <-=3D     This reminds me of a retired organ serviceman friend. He sang in his church choir. He liked to lean back in his heavy wooden choir chair, rocking back and forth on two legs of the chair. You guessed it ... one Sunday he dozed off and the chair tipped back too far.   With a loud KLATTER-BAAANG it hit the hardwood floor of the elevated choir loft and sent him, his music folder and hymnal flying! He let out a loud [CENSORED] report -- several people in the choir let out shrieks and caused general pandemonium in the church as people could not stifle their titters. Soon the whole place, including the pastor, was in an uproar of laughter!   He also was not in favor of the elderly "Linda Left Foot" who played the organ there ---- he felt that she usually played too timidly, without full-enough registrations to lead the congregational singing.   So one day when he was there tuning the organ, he installed a secret SFZ reversible toe stud in the loft near his choir chair and connected it by wire to the console. When he felt she was not playing loudly enough, he'd step on the SFZ switch! (No great swell of volume, however, as it was a old, tubby 1920s Moller of just about 10-12 ranks).   She often complained to him that there was "something wrong with the organ" -- that "it keeps getting loud all of a sudden for no reason..." He assured her he would look into it and then profess he couldn't find anything wrong.   This went on for many years until she retired when, at her retirement banquet he finally "fessed up" and presented the remote SFZ toe stud to her as a parting gift! According to him, she "was not amused."   Also reminds me of the time I was playing a wedding in a tiny country church in the swelter of August, so all the windows and doors were wide open. Right in the middle of the ceremony an old, stinky mutt dog came wandering in, strolled down the center aisle and plopped down with an audible "Oommph!" -- resting very comfortably, next to his master -- one of the groomsmen!   ~ C      
(back) Subject: Re: Dogs in Church From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:01:21 -0500   Mark Twain tells a classic tale of a dog in church in chapter 5 of Tom=20=   Sawyer, available on the web at=20 http://www.projects.ex.ac.uk/trol/grol/twain/tom05.htm   It's interesting how little some things have changed in American=20 churches since the mid-nineteenth century. For example: "After the=20 hymn had been sung, the Rev. Mr. Sprague turned himself into a=20 bulletin-board, and read off "notices" of meetings and societies and=20 things till it seemed that the list would stretch out to the crack of=20 doom=97 a queer custom which is still kept up in America, even in = cities,=20 away here in this age of abundant newspapers. Often, the less there is=20=   to justify a traditional custom, the harder it is to get rid of it."     Randy Runyon Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu=  
(back) Subject: sound system and reverb From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:01:23 -0600   The guy in our area who has done the majority of sound systems in churches--and who also travels on the road a good bit doing sound for musical groups--visibly winced when I told him our sanctuary was too dead for good singing and music. Then he proceeded to tell me that was the = ideal which he wanted; then he could control everything with his sound system.   Unfortunately, for our congregation to sound "good" singing, we'd have to mic them, too!\   Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: Re: fake acoustics From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:13:40 EST   I just bid on an organ in a church that had a system of fake = acoustics, and everything had a horrible "boing" to it, as if we were in an animated cartoon, and the walls were made of trampoline fabric. Our proposal suggested the removal of the bizarre device BEFORE the removal of the carpet. Good organbuilders would rather scale and voice for = a dead room than one that is at the mercy of an adjustable, goofy toy.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City glucknewyork.com  
(back) Subject: clergy and organists From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:33:38 -0600   Colin--as an ordained clergyperson and organist, I also take exception to your characterization. I happen, alas, to be the only organist my congregation has, and, AFAIK, the only clergyperson in my local AGO = chapter.   Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: Re: fake acoustics From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:30:51 -0500     Yes, churches always enjoy hearing that a professional company that they may be doing business with has broadcast across the internet that they were the purchasers of an adjustable, goofy toy.   I wonder which other "good organ builder" that they are talking with will let them know that happy news.   > Our proposal suggested the removal of the bizarre device BEFORE the > removal of the carpet. Good organbuilders would rather scale and voice = for a dead > room than one that is at the mercy of an adjustable, goofy toy. >     -- | noel jones, aago | gedeckt@usit.net | athens, tn | Moderator | Rodgers Organ Users Group at www.frogmusic.com | Support Group and Publishing Music and User's Guides | Voicing Services for Rodgers Organs, Digital & Pipe  
(back) Subject: The Hall of the Great Organ - video (crosspost) From: "Vic Ferrer" <vic@vicferrerproductions.com> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 21:29:35 -0800   Hello Friends:   Video of the October 26th, 2004 Press Conference at Boardwalk Hall has been posted to the Atlantic City Convention Hall Organ Society website.   Two formats: RealVideo and QuickTime are now available for broadband streaming at: www.acchos.org   go to The Gallery section to access the links.   I urge anyone interested in preservation to become a member of the ACCHOS and voice their support for restoration of the famous 33,000+ pipe Midmer-Losh organ.   By brining this American treasure back to playing condition, we have an opportunity to shine a spotlight on the relevance of pipe organs and organ music to life in America TODAY.     Vic Ferrer    
(back) Subject: Re: sound system and reverb From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:39:04 EST   List,   Having read various posts, I must weigh in regarding acoustics, etc:   We celebrate Solemn High Mass each week in a building originally designed = for "Cromwell's Children" in 1830. There is no sounding board over the pulpit, =   and the chancel/rood involves the work of Henry Vaughan and Ralph A. Cram. =   Plainchant and polyphony are the order of the day. Sermons can be heard as = far away as the Mission House Loo.   This is a quirky nave, but acoustics allow for good singing and good preaching.   Good buildings are good buildings. Second rate organs sound first-rate in good rooms such as ours.   BH SJE, Boston.  
(back) Subject: Re: Marcel at the movies From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:40:25 -0500   And he loved it, if I remember correctly. I, too, saw "The Cameraman" the other day and was both taken aback and gratified. It has been a very long time since I heard the Dupre on a Hammond. I always thought it was a disappointing fugue, with all its non-contrapuntal cop-outs, but it is a fun piece nonetheless. Now TCM has brought it to a comparatively huge audience who haven't the slightest idea what they just heard.   -WG   >"Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> > >Hello, > >That's OK....Dupre played a cinema organ in Paris for >a short while. > >Regards, > >Colin Mitchell UK > > >--- Mark Gustus <mgustus@msn.com> wrote: > > >>Hello Chatters, >> >>Talking about silent film accompaniments, did anyone >>see TCM's recent airing >>of Buster Keaton's "The Cameraman?" It has a new >>score that includes an >>electronic rendition of Dupre's Prelude and Fugue in >>g minor, Op. 7. >> >>