PipeChat Digest #5039 - Tuesday, December 28, 2004
 
Re: Tonal Fnishing eye of the beholder
  by <Seedlac@aol.com>
Re: RC churches in Washington DC Shrine
  by <Seedlac@aol.com>
Re: Every Organist's Worst Nightmare
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
Carpeting
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Marcel at the movies
  by "Steven Frank" <steve@virgilfox.com>
Re: sound system and reverb
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Speaking of flooring and SHOES
  by "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net>
Re: sound system and reverb
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: fancy footwork video clip wanted
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Flentrop's and Rooms
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: fancy footwork video clip wanted
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
OTHER Parisian organists post 1850
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: OTHER Parisian organists post 1850
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Tonal Finishing
  by "Roy Kersey" <rkersey@tds.net>
Re: OTHER Parisian organists post 1850
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Caleb Simper Music
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: Music During Communion: (was: Philosophical/Educational Problem   for
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Re: Music During Communion: (was: Philosophical/Educational	Problem   for
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Speaking of flooring and SHOES
  by "Jerry Richer" <jerry@ChirpingBat.Com>
Re: Bridesdog
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Tonal Fnishing eye of the beholder From: <Seedlac@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 05:31:36 EST   Here we go again with absolutes. The reverse is also as common as the = present argument about too little time spent in "voicing" or "finishing." I tuned = an organ for my boss, who usually tunes it. I fought like mad to pull it in = to tune. The speech of so many pipes was raw, blurry or wavy. The Trumpet = sounded like 56 pipes from 56 different organs. When I apologized to the organist, = she was aghast, exclaiming that the organ builder has spent weeks voicing the organ for the room. She felt that all the time he had spent meant that the = voicing must be perfect. As if there was some sort of invisible measure of perfection. Having tuned a couple organs by the builder since, I can only = conclude that this was his idea of perfection. The entire concept of tonal design is arbitrary. What one person thinks is great may make others hold their = ears. I think of those early neoclassic organs and the desire for clarity and unforced tone often resulted in what I find to be an underwhelming result. = Other early neo-builders thought that little or no voicing was the true way to = go. In their opinion too much voicing took the energy out of the pipe. They liked =   some of the raw quality. Much of what we all claim to be as the = end-all-be-all in organ sound has more to do with our own early experiences with the organ. = A coworker of mine went to a college that had several Holtkamp organs. To = this day that is his yard stick for deciding on an instrument's worth. My = formative years were in a men & boy choir, the organ was a Skinner clone. So my measurement of greatness still carries this as defining measurement of an = instrument's worth.   Steve Baltimore  
(back) Subject: Re: RC churches in Washington DC Shrine From: <Seedlac@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 05:39:41 EST   There is seems to have been some great fighting between the architect of = the National shrine and Church leaders as to the interior decorations. From = what I have read the architect desired a much more undecorated interior, without = the many memorial chapels. He felt that the decoration to be a desire to = appeal to less than artistic element of the church where more is better. The = church felt that his building would be a great place to be a memorial to many = different groups and wanted the dollars to get it finished fast they decided that a gaudy interior would appeal to the peasants. Their gift shop is sort of = the culmination of this with its glow in the dark holy water bottles in the = shape of the BVM. I remember going to the summer organ recitals, decades ago, = before the application of glitter and jimmy's. It had a grand affect.   Steve Baltimore  
(back) Subject: Re: Every Organist's Worst Nightmare From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 07:03:50 -0600   I had a similar experience in a postlude one Sunday last year. There is often a group of children gathered behind the console each Sunday during the postlude and one little boy, just about as tall as the lowest manual, was standing just at the end of the bench watching everything. At the very instant I got to the last note, he reach up and pushed cancel. I don't remember what the piece was, but it didn't matter as everyone in the church, myself included, erupted in laughter.   Margo   Colin Mitchell wrote: > Hello, > > This reminds me of the time when I was playing Reger, > I think it was the Introduction & Passcaglia in D > minor. > > It ended on a dominant 7th, because the chorister who > turned the pages decided he should sit on the organ > bench, and his knee pushed the General Cancel! > > Of course, being that it was Reger, a dominant 7th > wasn't really quite so bad!!!!! > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchell UK > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >     -- Dr. Margo Dillard Organist, FUMC, Lewisville, TX Musical Feast Choral Society Dillard Piano & Organ Studio    
(back) Subject: Carpeting From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:12:55 EST   >Carpeting is considerably >cheaper in the short term, but I can only imagine the vast improvement = hard >aisles would make!   Hard flooring such as granite or marble or some other kind of hard, non porous stone is much more expensive at the outset, BUT, in the long run, = the maintenance is minimal, and the acoustic results are worth it! Carpet is = cheaper at the outset, but in the long run, it ends up being so much more expensive--cleaning it several times a year, replacing it every 5 or 10 = years depending on how much traffic it gets. It is just a maintenance nightmare. With = granite or marble,a dustmop a few days a week and a wet mop once a week over it and you're done--even the laziest of custodians (maintenace engineers) can = have it cleaned. We are only using carpet aisle runners so people don't slip on the granite =   floors in our new church building. Kirkegaard directed us to a = acoustically friendly carpet that would be good to use, and not damage the acoustics = that they designed for us, but the rest of the floors will be hard surfaces. One of =   the things that the architects looked at was the long term costs--granite = and marble were expensive up front, but overall, they factored in cleaning and =   maintenance, and granite and marble were cheaper per year and over the = long haul would not have to be replaced, saving the church a lot of money. Our = architect talked to several pastors who had built new churches that put down = granite floors in their new buildings and they all reiterated this fact...that was = all he needed to hear. (Well, he also heard the acoustic results!)   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: Marcel at the movies From: "Steven Frank" <steve@virgilfox.com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:24:03 -0500   > --- Mark Gustus <mgustus@msn.com> wrote: > > Talking about silent film accompaniments, did anyone > see TCM's recent airing > of Buster Keaton's "The Cameraman?" It has a new > score that includes an > electronic rendition of Dupre's Prelude and Fugue in > g minor, Op. 7.   There is a Real Player clip which includes part of the fugue at:   http://www.turnerclassicmovies.com/Multimedia/Popup/ 0,,85321|85330,00.html    
(back) Subject: Re: sound system and reverb From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 07:31:21 -0600   Good Morning, Dennis, et al: > The guy in our area who has done the majority > of sound systems in churches--and who also > travels on the road a good bit doing sound for > musical groups--visibly winced when I told him > our sanctuary was too dead for good singing and > music. Then he proceeded to tell me that was the > ideal which he wanted; then he could control > everything with his sound system. > > Unfortunately, for our congregation to sound > "good" singing, we'd have to mic them, too! AND, that is what I have been trying to describe when I say that the present-day engineering model is a system that builds everything for the venue electronically. The scary part is that some of these newer systems are doing a decent job of it, but you will need about a $1M to do it right, and that is not what most churches expect to pay for a "public address" system so everyone can hear what is being spoken. What is missing in the mind of the modern architect and the engineers who support these projects is a true understanding that a Christian congregation participates in the worship experience from where they are sitting, so the sound generated by the participants has to be enhanced, exactly as you just mentioned, to become part of the worhsip experience. The cost of doing that is not cheap. There is a vast difference in the environment needed to project sound from the stage to the seats from the sound of enhancing the whole room. Theater versus worship environment. F. Richard Burt ..    
(back) Subject: Speaking of flooring and SHOES From: "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:30:56 -0500   Hi, all,   Since July I've been in a new church with a terrazzo floor in the Chancel. This is has happened several times, but Christmas Eve it started to worry me: Play a hymn, run over to direct the bell choir, accompany the choir on the piano, play Silent Night on the harp. The point is I'm doing this running around wearing my OrganMaster shoes. And repeatedly I have tried to go a little too fast and the next thing you know I'm taking a header, my feet slipping out from under me, and luckily recovering by doing some sort of Scott Hamilton Skating Flourish. I have taken to trying to walk slower with little baby steps (which, I'm afraid, makes me look more elderly than I actually am) simply because I don't feel like falling on my butt in front of all those people. But, no matter what I do, I look foolish. Scott Hamilton, Tim Conway, the Three Stooges. I'm sure it's entertaining, but I don't like it.   Should I change my type of shoes, or is there something I can do to the ones I have?   Chuck Peery St. Louis    
(back) Subject: Re: sound system and reverb From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:29:12 -0600     ----- Original Message ----- From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 9:01 PM Subject: sound system and reverb     > The guy in our area who has done the majority of sound systems in > churches--and who also travels on the road a good bit doing sound for > musical groups--visibly winced when I told him our sanctuary was too dead > for good singing and music. Then he proceeded to tell me that was the ideal > which he wanted; then he could control everything with his sound system. > > Unfortunately, for our congregation to sound "good" singing, we'd have to > mic them, too!\ > > Dennis Steckley > Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: fancy footwork video clip wanted From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:46:01 -0500   Awesome! Thanks so much... this is perfect. But what the heck is that contraption? Where can I get one!!! :) If anyone else knows of any = video clips like this let me know. Andy   > > Does anyone know of a video clip out there in the world wide wasteland =   > > that > > shows tricky organ footwork? > > Here is a link to Hector Olivera's website. The most amazing > footwork display happens at 7:00 minutes into the video clip. I > believe Hector "wowed" the AGO in LA with this same piece "The > Flight of the Bumble Bee and Tico Tico". > > Having seen Hector do his thing with his "machine" for a Community > Concerts event and the next night do a completely straight classical > concert on a pipe organ, I am indeed impressed. > > http://www.hectorolivera.com/store/japan.html > > C. Joseph Nichols > Nichols & Simpson, Inc. > http://www.nicholsandsimpson.com >   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Flentrop's and Rooms From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:03:17 -0800 (PST)   Is Flentrop still in business? The Seattle Flentrop of course is the most beautiful to many. That room = was capreted some years ago. Its just a concrete box...austere to look at = but so wonderful to play and listen in there.. That Flentrop has such a = rich, woodsy tone, and is never too much on the ears considering the solid = nature of the room. It takes a while to get used to playing in the room, = however. That room, as well as St James RC Cath. are both acoustical = marvels that were once plush and carpeted. TDH   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
(back) Subject: Re: fancy footwork video clip wanted From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:01:06 -0600     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:46 AM Subject: Re: fancy footwork video clip wanted     > Awesome! Thanks so much... this is perfect. But what the heck is that > contraption? Where can I get one!!!   It seems to be a Roland Atelier Model AT-90SL. See: http://www.rolandus.com/products/ck_details.asp?CatID=3D10&SubCatID=3D44&Pr= odID=3DAT-90SL&PageMode=3D1&Page=3D1&ReviewID   John Speller      
(back) Subject: OTHER Parisian organists post 1850 From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:10:42 -0800 (PST)   My teacher encouraged me to go locate a piece of music, preferably a March = or Toccata, written by a French composer who may be unfamiliar to some. = So, I located a Marche Nuptuale by a composer A. Catherine in a = colletion...Vingt Piece Modern. Written for his friend who was organist at = St Eustache, there is no first name for this composer. Any pointers? Bud may know a bit.   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more.
(back) Subject: Re: OTHER Parisian organists post 1850 From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:18:02 +0000   On 12/28/04 4:10 PM, "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> wrote:   > Bud may know a bit.   Very likely. But, I think, no longer on this list.   Alan Freed  
(back) Subject: Re: Tonal Finishing From: "Roy Kersey" <rkersey@tds.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:44:01 -0500   Hi Monty and All, I suppose that you are right about SOME organbuilders skrimping on = voicing to the point of malpractice. Others, judging from reports of how = long they are on site, must do a very thorough job of voicing and = regulating. Something to ask about when choosing a builder. What really = surprises me about your post is the idea that once an organ is "accepted" = the builder is off the hook. It seems to me that typical contracts = obligate the builder to fix anything that is wrong due to defective parts = or workmanship for a period of time, maybe a year to five years. I don't = know why anyone with any sense would buy an instrument which cost way over = $100K without some provision for adjustments along the way. I guess the = phrase "anyone with any sense" leaves out a lot of church committees. . . I recently had a very nice 1928 trumpet overhauled by one of the best = repairmen in the nation. When it was returned to me with an invoice, he = told me to play it a while to see what I thought before sending payment. = While this instrument was fine tonally (considering who's playing it) I = did find several cosmetic issues that will require sending it back for = tweaking. I have had work done by a couple of the best in the business = and still I find things that need redoing at times. They are only human. My points are that, first, it may take some time to become aware of = what needs to be done as one lives with the instrument. Secondly, if an = individual would spend some weeks of time assessing a $1000 trumpet, why = would a church committee do less with a $100K+ organ? Best Regards, Roy Kersey Organ Enthusiast and Amateur Trumpeter    
(back) Subject: Re: OTHER Parisian organists post 1850 From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:54:42 -0600   Alphonse (Eug=E8ne Marie) Catherine, d. 1927. Marche Nuptiale seems to = be his only organ publication. My original copy of this collection shows = the dedication of this piece is to Ch. Quef, of Ste. Trinit=E9, Paris   You know the Piern=E9 from this collection. Also look at the Alleluia by = Bossi.   Bob Lind ----- Original Message -----=20 From: T.Desiree' Hines=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:10 AM Subject: OTHER Parisian organists post 1850     My teacher encouraged me to go locate a piece of music, preferably a = March or Toccata, written by a French composer who may be unfamiliar to = some. So, I located a Marche Nuptuale by a composer A. Catherine in a = colletion...Vingt Piece Modern. Written for his friend who was organist = at St Eustache, there is no first name for this composer.=20   Any pointers?=20 Bud may know a bit.=20         -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. =       -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----   This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm=20  
(back) Subject: Caleb Simper Music From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:11:10 -0600   Thanks to a friend who sent me some choral pieces, and some web searching, I've become quite interested in the compositions of Caleb Simper. Yes, I know it's not difficult and often considered "ordinary," but it has a place in church music.   So I would like to collect copies of his choral works and his twelve volumes entitled "Seventeen Voluntaries for Organ." If you happen to have any of his work lying about in your collection--or perhaps buried in the long forgotten regions of your church's choral library, would you be kind enough to tell me what you have and if you're will to sell (for a reasonable sum)/barter/give away? You can contact me directly at kzrev@rr1.net   You should be aware that some of his work, especially that published by Novello, will be under the name, Edwyn A. Clare, a pseudonym used by him.   BTW, four or five of the choral compositions are still in print, as are the twelve volumes of voluntaries, so I can buy new ones (from Stainer) for a reasonable amount if need be.   Thanks so much.   Dennis Steckley   "Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened."--Dr. Seuss        
(back) Subject: Re: Music During Communion: (was: Philosophical/Educational Problem for Hol... From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:25:42 EST   Hello nijhuis@email.com,     In reference to your comment: Our congregation "undulates" between the three (sing/background music/silence) ... most often "organ" hymn while the elements are being = passed out to the congregation. "Lucky me", I have a synthesizer (not even a Digital Organ) = to do all the work ... while I have some acceptable sounds for the purpose, often I'll turn 90 degrees counter clockwise and play the piano for the meditative pieces. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My pastor wants a nice organ A-MEN! whenever there's a spoken Amen in the =   ritual. I spend much of communion with my hands poised over the = keyboard.   When the elements are being passed, quiet communion hymns are played, or = I improvise on a hymn.   Now, QUIET is not a problem - all I have is quiet. We were given a fine = old 50's Hammond C-3 with what the previous owner thought was a Leslie. = Well, it's a humble Tone Cabinet, and the congregation drowns it out seriously, = poor thing. Anyone know of a decent Leslie for sale, in the NY Metro area? Right now, when I know the congregation is going to REALLY sing a hymn, I = have to switch to the piano.   BTW, it's an African Methodist Episcopal Zion church in a VERY small building (seats maybe 150, if they're all friends), so the Hammond is = most appropriate. The acoustics are OK. The floors are pine, with carpet = runners on both aisles, at the front of the church, and in the choir loft. Pastor has a mike, but doesn't need to use it most of the time.   Now, as for undulation...... well, it IS a Hammond. <grin>   Victoria    
(back) Subject: Re: Music During Communion: (was: Philosophical/Educational Problem for Hol... From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:15:43 +0000   On 12/28/04 5:25 PM, "Myosotis51@aol.com" <Myosotis51@aol.com> wrote:   > My pastor wants a nice organ A-MEN! whenever there's a spoken Amen in = the > ritual.   That's fine. But you might remind him that the "Amen" should "match" the "ritual" (prayer, or whatever). So if he chants the prayer, the congregation sings the "Amen" (with the organ, probably). But if he "speaks" the prayer, the "Amen" is likewise spoken.   Maybe.   Alan Freed  
(back) Subject: Re: Speaking of flooring and SHOES From: "Jerry Richer" <jerry@ChirpingBat.Com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:19:45 -0500   You could put galoshes on while you're not at the organ. Might look = a little odd? Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays., Jerry   Chirp|Chirp|Chirp: It's the Bat, Bat Arhonious Software, = www.chirpingbat.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Bridesdog From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:55:45 -0600   One of the most moving weddings I ever played involved a dog prominantly. The groom was somewhat handicapped, but ambulatory. The bride was blind. She had a black lab guide dog, who "gave her away." Her harness was entwined with flowers. At her cue, she led the bride up the aisle - (which placed her between the bride and groom). At the appropriate time, she crossed over to the left side so that bride and groom could link arms, and then she led them both up the steps. Once they were at the altar, she crossed behind and sat in front of the row of groomsmen quietly watching, until her cue at the end of the service, when she came back to the brides free hand and led them both out of the church.   I have seldom seen humans learn their places and cues as quickly and execute them as well, and with as much quiet dignity. Between her attentive care for "her people" and the emotion of 2 people approaching middle age who had never expected to find love - there was hardly a dry eye in the house.   Margo   Paul Opel wrote: > I've had dogs in the procession before- sometimes as ringbearers led by = a > bridesmaid or young flower girl type, with the ring on a ribbon at the > collar. Of the dog, that is. > > How about "Wachet arf?" > > Oh, right, that should be for *his* procession. > > Paul Opel > > At 7:15 PM -0500 12/25/4, Robert Lind wrote: > >> How about Canine in D by Taco Bell? RJL >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: John L. Speller To: >>PipeChat Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 5:51 PM Subject: >>Bridesdog >> However, it is the bit about having a dog as one's bridesmaid that >>really gets me. Has anyone else come across this practice? Would = one >>use any special music in such cases? John Speller > > > > http://www.sover.net/~popel/agomain.html > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >     -- Dr. Margo Dillard Organist, FUMC, Lewisville, TX Musical Feast Choral Society Dillard Piano & Organ Studio