PipeChat Digest #5044 - Wednesday, December 29, 2004
 
Re: Bad kids
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Help!Please! unwanted constant reverberation
  by "Adrianne Schutt" <maybe@pipcom.com>
Re: Bad Kids
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: Philosophy of  learning
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Bad kids
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Bad Adults
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
Screaming Kids in church
  by "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com>
Re: Bad kids
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Bad Adults
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
St Vedast Foster lane. London
  by "alantaylor1" <alantaylor1@members.v21.co.uk>
Moods and Playing
  by "David Evangelides" <davide@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Bad kids
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: Bad kids
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: Bad kids
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Bad kids From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:29:58 -0500   I hope you didn't think I thought a church service was a concert. I did think, however, that my meaning was clear from my words: "a meditative atmosphere, either through quiet music or moments of silence." Moments of silence are not what one goes to a concert to hear and quiet music is not all one would expect to hear at a concert. "Courtesy codes present at concerts" has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about.   Please explain what you mean by "Parents I have found try their best when it comes to entertaining kids at church." I do not understand your meaning. Do you mean that church is a place for entertaining kids? I thought it was a place for worship. If parents were really trying their best they would place their kids in the nursery provided and not in the pew next to someone trying to pray.   RR     On Dec 29, 2004, at 3:12 PM, Dominic Scullion wrote:   > Ok, I realise that babies screaming is pain while a service is taking > place. > > But believe it or not, church services are not designed for people to > come > and listen to music as they would in a concert. It is for quiet prayer > and > thought and if children go, as they are young, are going to make noise. > Parents I have found try their best when it comes to entertaining kids > at > church. > > Children and parents though, should not be expected to adhere to the > courtesy codes present at concerts in a place of worshup > > DS > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of > Randolph Runyon > Sent: 29 December 2004 18:52 > To: PipeChat > Subject: Re: Bad kids > > How about the problem of screaming babies and toddlers throughout the > church service? Has this gotten worse in recent years? It's certainly > a problem in my church. Kind of makes it impossible to maintain a > meditative atmosphere, either through quiet music or moments of > silence. Why are parents so thoughtless? We supposedly have a nursery > but not everyone uses it. > > Randy Runyon > Zion Lutheran Church > Hamilton, Ohio > runyonr@muohio.edu > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >    
(back) Subject: Re: Help!Please! unwanted constant reverberation From: "Adrianne Schutt" <maybe@pipcom.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:34:43 -0500   At 01:32 PM 29/12/2004 -0600, V Hatch wrote: >I have a Baldwin organ from the fifties or the seventies which has taken >to emitting an echo on everthing. (This organ I have at home as a = practice >instrument.) By this I mean that there is a sort of reverberation >accompanying every note that I play, no matter what stop. When I am >finished playing and I am canclling a stop, the sound of the stop being >cancelled is amplified by this echo sound. Even tapping the wood or >whatever the material is around the stops yields this same unpleasant >omnipresent echo or amplified sound.   Sounds like you've got a vacuum tube dying. Scared the heck out of me the first time one of my ancient Hammonds did this. Sounded like someone was standing beside me hitting a big chunk of sheet metal to make = a thunder sound effect, and running it through an old spring reverb.   Fire the organ up and pop off the back if it's got one. Grab a pencil (or something else non-metal, safety safety safety), find the amplifier(s), and tap the glass top of each tube gently. If this is your problem, when you find the culprit believe me you'll notice. Be **VERY** careful not to touch anything else in the back of this old beast. There's =   enough voltage in those old things to seriously harm you if you're = careless.   FYI, tubes usually have their model #s silk screened on the glass =   part somewhere. Sometimes they're all digits, like "6550", sometimes they're a mix of letters and digits like "12AU7". It might be engraved in =   the amp chassis beside the plug, too. You might have to take it out to = see the number. Don't try removing the tube until the organ is off and has been off for a while, or you'll burn yourself. Trust me on that. :))   If you're going to put it back in to limp along until a new one comes in, take a close look at the base before you reinsert. It will only =   fit back in correctly one way, and sometimes you have to look closely. = You don't want to damage the plug forcing it, that's all.   If nobody nearby fixes old electronics for a living, maybe you know someone local who's into HAM radio. They won't have a Baldwin manual =   on hand, but they certainly understand tubes and know where to get them. Getting the right tube and popping it in for you is like falling = off a log for a HAM operator.   Have fun! Ad ;->      
(back) Subject: Re: Bad Kids From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:38:03 EST   Charlie,   I sympathize with you. While there are precious few children in our congregation (though it is NOT geriatric it is made up largely of, shall = we say, bachelors) I have always enjoyed showing the organ to interested children. = I even had a Pipe Organ Encounter group in for a tour last year and they were the = model of propriety--some even played pretty well!   However, on the subject of lack of discipline, I DID observe it frequently =   when I was teaching middle-school. Dealing with a (good) choir of over 60 children in an urban environment was a challenge. Discipline had to be = tight, and I HAD to follow through on enforcing the rules. This once got ME disciplined = by the principal--formally. What did I do? Sent a young girl who became disorderly to the office during a school concert. She knew what the = consequences would be (being sent to the office), and when I pointed--discreetly--in that direction, she quietly left the stage and went to the office. Her mother, = livid that she had been disciplined, had me hauled up in front of my superiors for "humiliating" her daughter. I did have the satisfaction of telling this = parent that if she were as fair and as consistent in discipline at home as I was in = the classroom, her daughter would be far better behaved. In fact, what = probably made her angry was that I was able to get her to accept her punishment (without =   being asked twice), apparently with little effort.   Perhaps I'm just a reactionary schoolmarm. But I must say, my kids enjoyed = my class, knew the rules, and functioned at a VERY high level of musicality = and knowledge. Everyone wanted to be in my class. Perhaps children LIKE structure--structure which changes, with increasing freedom, as they = mature. Then again, I'm old fashioned, and probably an old croaker-in-training.   For now, I must say that our nearly all adult congregation (we haven't = even a Sunday School) works just fine for me.   Pax, Bill H. SJE, Boston  
(back) Subject: Re: Philosophy of learning From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:50:24 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   This is simply wonderful!   Dropping out of school I mean. If only more people did that, the world would be a better place. Everyone is so exam orientated, like they are trophies and passports to the top, when they're nothing of the sort.   Point me out a string of qualifications, and I could potentially show you a geek, which is not the same thing as saying that all people with a string of qualifications is necessarily a geek.   I have worked alongside some really top people, and in my experience, they're not hugely well educated, even though they may be well qualified. Some are not qualified at all, yet achieve enormous things in life. Bach was one such, I guess.   A friend of mine is dyslexic and knows nothing about anything, but he's super intelligent, a brilliant businessman, an art collector, drives an Aston Martin and is probably worth =A330,000,000....and he's fun.   I'm delighted to report, that since fleeing school at the age of 15, I have done rather well at most things. Also, I have never, ever stopped wanting to learn about everything.....not just music. Every day, I learn something new, try something new or come across something new and life is still a bundle of fun as a consequence.   Just fly where the wind takes you! I think you might just be a bit special......but whether that turns out to be as a master criminal, a musician or an international correspondent....time will only tell.   Already, you are a brilliant translator.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK               --- Jarle Fagerheim <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:   > I dropped out of school some years ago and have > missed hundreds of > English lessons. I haven't done any homework since > third grade. All that > I know of the English language is what I've aquired > by reading, writing, > and speaking it.       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Re: Bad kids From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:53:24 EST   Randy,   Some Roman Catholic churches have "cry rooms", which are segregated from = the nave by glass; the service is heard over loud speakers.   I certainly do not approve of this practice, though it does, indeed, = handle the problem of crying infants.   Thoughtful parents who do not care to use a nursery remove the child at = the first sign of crying. This may not be "politically correct", but I am of = the opinion that it is entirely appropriate for a pastor (or, for that matter, = a parishioner neighbor in the next pew) to request that such disruptions be = removed to the narthex or elsewhere.   I can think of no theological argument that justifies an entire = congregation being subjected to any sort of disruption, be it from a crazed adult or a cranky, overtired, or soiled infant. Growing up (and this was in the 70's) = I never once recall a parent not taking a screaming infant or small child out of = the nave to be pacified.   Pax, Bill H. SJE, Boston.  
(back) Subject: Bad Adults From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:54:30 +0100   Disturbing church services isn't exclusively done by kids. I have few problems with small babies making some noise -- they don't know any better -- but as for adults who chat LOUDLY during the 5-minute bell ringing before the service starts, and continue well into the organ prelude ...! Whenever I suspect such conditions I choose a loud and dramatic piece, to shock them (the noisy adults) a little. The Bach g-minor works pretty well!   A more extreme case was in a nearby church with a fine 30-stop Jehmlich. The church council told the organist to play softer preludes, so as to make chatting more convenient. I wish I was kidding...   Jarle http://jarle.moo.no  
(back) Subject: Screaming Kids in church From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:02:34 -0800   "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> wrote,   =3D-> How about the problem of screaming babies and toddlers throughout the church service? <-=3D     Some people do seem to be persistent about lugging their babies into the church service - along with the big fancy trolleys [or whatever you call 'em -- prams??], blankets, bottles, clanking and jangling toys, and satchels-full of lotions, powders, diapers and premoistened wipe-ups, medications, etc.   We do have a nursery; when people with infants enter the church the ushers direct them to the nursery but some people decline. Of course, the ushers defer and let them come on in.   However, if their Precious Treasure starts caterwauling or making a lot of commotion during the service, an usher will tiptoe over and ask the family to step into the nursery because the baby is disrupting the service.   People don't seem to realize how distracting it is -- ESPECIALLY to the pastor -- to have a baby babbling, gurgling, and shrieking throughout the entire service. Especially when there are several of them. It's very hard for the pastors to try to preach over the racket.   ~ C      
(back) Subject: Re: Bad kids From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:02:54 -0500   Hi, Bill. I fondly remember the Roman Catholic church where I played in the 1970's in Timonium, Maryland. It was a new building, and it had just the sort of "crying room" you describe, glass, loudspeakers and all. It worked great. I certainly agree with the first sentence of your concluding paragraph! Disruptive noise is like cigarette smoke iin an enclosed public space. One person's expression of personal freedom distresses many others.   Randy R.       On Dec 29, 2004, at 3:53 PM, DERREINETOR@aol.com wrote:   > Randy, > > Some Roman Catholic churches have "cry rooms", which are segregated > from the nave by glass; the service is heard over loud speakers. > > I certainly do not approve of this practice, though it does, indeed, > handle the problem of crying infants. > > Thoughtful parents who do not care to use a nursery remove the child > at the first sign of crying. This may not be "politically correct", > but I am of the opinion that it is entirely appropriate for a pastor > (or, for that matter, a parishioner neighbor in the next pew) to > request that such disruptions be removed to the narthex or elsewhere. > > I can think of no theological argument that justifies an entire > congregation being subjected to any sort of disruption, be it from a > crazed adult or a cranky, overtired, or soiled infant. Growing up (and > this was in the 70's) I never once recall a parent not taking a > screaming infant or small child out of the nave to be pacified. > > Pax, > Bill H. > SJE, Boston.
(back) Subject: Re: Bad Adults From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:05:37 -0500   I find they talk less, and less loudly, during the prelude if I play something really soft. Sometimes, though, it's fun to play a piece with contrasting dynamics, so that they find themselves shouting during a sudden pianissimo.   Randy R.     On Dec 29, 2004, at 3:54 PM, Jarle Fagerheim wrote:   > Disturbing church services isn't exclusively done by kids. I have few > problems with small babies making some noise -- they don't know any > better -- but as for adults who chat LOUDLY during the 5-minute bell > ringing before the service starts, and continue well into the organ > prelude ...! Whenever I suspect such conditions I choose a loud and > dramatic piece, to shock them (the noisy adults) a little. The Bach > g-minor works pretty well! > > A more extreme case was in a nearby church with a fine 30-stop > Jehmlich. The church council told the organist to play softer > preludes, so as to make chatting more convenient. I wish I was > kidding... > > Jarle > http://jarle.moo.no > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >    
(back) Subject: St Vedast Foster lane. London From: "alantaylor1" <alantaylor1@members.v21.co.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:21:44 -0000   No Ross. The organ in St Vedast was moved from St Alban's Fulham to St Vedast by Noel Mander in the 1950's. St Vedast was burned out in the war.   You might be interested to know Ross, that we have now got the bells of St Barnabas, Pimlico, sounding again. We can't ring them full circle yet as = the spire is unsafe. However, we are using the chiming apparatus. Our mutual friend Alasdair had a letter from a local resident. This letter complained about the organist of St Barnabas practising at 8.30 on a Sunday morning. The letter finished by saying that the writer trusted "that this will be = the end of the matter". Alasdair wrote back to say it wouldn't be. As he = didn't intend to stop the organist practicing. And, that he was having the bells repaired.   Best wishes,   Alan London   >Eventually Norman Johnson came to a recital I gave at St Vedast, Foster Lane, in the City f London.   Ah yes, my good friend George Sanders, when working for Hill Norman & = Beard, rebuilt this organ after WWII. George came to NZ permanently in 1961 and I buried him last year, aged about 83 (forgotten exactly). The organ sloped slightly, and there was no way of straightening it, so there had to be = (for some reason or other) a small windtrunk right across the gallery rail from one side to the other of the showcase. This had been put in many years before WWII, but George left it in place as it worked and was largely invisible. He reckoned the organ made a good sound.   Ross   -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 28/12/2004    
(back) Subject: Moods and Playing From: "David Evangelides" <davide@theatreorgans.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:41:50 -0600   May I begin a topic for consideration?   May of us have regular schedules of playing at least 1 or more times per week. These may include religious, secular or a combination of both. My current routine is playing a 1 hour program 3 days each week. Some venues have prescribed music for the occasion, such as a church service or concert, Other venues may be =91free style=92 playing, and selections = can be changed or decided upon at the last minute.   It=92s not a secret that musicians and those in the fine arts are subject to mood swings and depression, perhaps even greater than those in the general population.   There are times when situations around me cause a mental fatigue and even depression and fear. I don=92t feel the music in me, and can=92t even = think of sitting at the bench at home. If during those times I do get myself to the keyboard, the music is solemn and quite somber, maybe even depressing to one who might hear at that time. It=92s during those times when there is an empty, drained feeling, and wonder what I may have to offer at the next day=92s scheduled event.   We=92ve all heard the saying that =91the show must go on=92. Indeed, in = spite of mood swings, I definitely go to my day job; and I=92ve never missed a performance either. There=92s something to be said about =91facing the instrument=92 that brings up the adrenalin and somehow, physically and spiritually we have the resource to get through the event.   Does anyone out there have similar experiences? During those periods, how do you deal with playing at home - for fun or practice; and getting mentally prepared for the next event?     David E   David Evangelides Colorado Springs, Colorado      
(back) Subject: Re: Bad kids From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:59:54 EST   Randy,   Your analogy with cigarette smoke is excellent. As a smoker, I don't much mind cigarette smoke in an enclosed space (as long as there is SOME = ventilation). Likewise, I think some parents of small children don't even notice other people's screaming children, much like I don't notice other people's smoke = say, in my house or in my car. Like some parents invite other couples with = children to their house, with toddlers in tow, I'm always having others invite themselves to mine because they are allowed to have a cigarette with their = cocktail at my flat. Of course, they are not allowed to bring their children to my cocktail parties, unless, of course, their children smoke cigarettes and = know how to hold their liquor. I once made an exception for an 11-year-old that could play bridge and keep his mouth mostly shut, however.   Needless to say, I think for some parents, a screaming child in church is = a good diversion from the Sermon or the four-thousandth hearing of a = hackneyed anthem. Very much like a cigarette and a martini are a good diversion at = my parties from another conversation with the same hackneyed, Camel-smoking, scotch-swilling, thirty-something intellectuals.   However, because I am polite, I would never simply "light up" in someone else's home or office. In fact, I wouldn't even ask--I'd only do it if I = were invited to. Just like I would not expect my guests to bring their children = or their own martinis to dinner chez moi. Unless, of course, the ivitation = read "Bring Your Own Gin and Infant--Cigarettes, Olives and Organic Cotton = Diapers Provided".   The analogy holds up in another way, too, and this is perhaps a bit harsh = but is said with a twinkle in my eye: People choose to start smoking, but many =   people find it difficult to stop once they start. Likewise, people choose = to have children, and once they do, the State is pretty insistent that they = can't put a child out like one can extinguish, say, a Lucky Strike (at least in = this country). However, one CAN see to it that public irritants like cigarettes = and small children are injoyed in the correct environment--namely, OUT OF = DOORS (or in the nursery, where we used to sneak our cigarettes during the = weekdays in a church where I once worked).   My grandfather, who was a fine English gentleman who secretly liked kids, used to paraphrase someone, saying "a child is a tube with an insatiable = appetite at one end and a complete lack of responsibility at the other". The same, = in a way, could be said of a cigarette. And, I couldn't agree more.   With tounge firmly implanted in cheek,   Bill H. SJE Boston.    
(back) Subject: Re: Bad kids From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 06:09:57 +0800   Well, Bill, that's one way to get rid of a young congregation=2E Ask the young parents to remove their child and themselves=2E IN my Church (ex-Methodist, now Uniting Church) there is a glassed-in area at the back of the church with speakers and heating for young mothers with noisy children=2E It is used frequently and gives peace to the congregation and peace of mind to the mother=2E What's wrong with that=3F=2E=20 Bob Elms=2E > >---- Original Message ---- >From: DERREINETOR@aol=2Ecom >To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg >Subject: Re: Bad kids >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:53:24 EST > >>Randy, >> >>Some Roman Catholic churches have "cry rooms", which are segregated from the nave by glass; the service is heard over loud speakers=2E I certainly do not approve of this practice, though it does, indeed, handle the problem of crying infants=2E=20 Thoughtful parents who do not care to use a nursery remove the child at the first sign of crying=2E This may not be "politically correct", but I am of the opinion that it is entirely appropriate for a pastor (or, for that >matter, a parishioner neighbor in the next pew) to request that such >disruptions be removed to the narthex or elsewhere=2E=20 >>      
(back) Subject: Re: Bad kids From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:24:59 EST   Bob,   The reason I disapprove is because I don't think that parents with small children should feel compelled to sit in a segregated space. I just think = that they should remove crying children temporarily. What small children are = doing at Mass instead of in nurseries is a mystery to me. Toddlers should be in = Sunday School. Nowadays, with so many single parents, churches should have = options so that a single Dad or Mom can still attend church with the least amount of disruption for them, or the rest of the congregation. By the way, I have a = young nephew that attends my church occasionally and is fascinated with the = organ, the incense and the liturgy. He even tries to sing--always at the = appropriate moments. A burgeoning musician and high-churchman?   Pax, Bill H.