PipeChat Digest #5045 - Wednesday, December 29, 2004
 
Re: Philosophy of organ learning
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
RE: Bad kids
  by "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com>
RE: Screaming Kids in church
  by "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com>
Re: Philosophy of organ learning
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Bad kids
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
RE: Philosophy of organ learning (was Re: Organ Pieces)
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Bedient Opus 21
  by "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net>
Re: New Year's Eve, Little Rock, AR
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: Bad kids
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
Crying babies and Nurseries
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: Bad Kids
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Philosophy of organ learning From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:35:30 -0500   Dear Jarle, To keep this on topic, I lived in Wiesbaden, Germany in the late 60's visiting the church and listened many times to the organ at the = Marktkirche which I believe has been rebuilt. Going back to learning, while stationed there, I was married and we had to move into a German apartment in Bauscheim, (now Kleine Gerau). While there, when home, the only one who spoke english was my wife and all the neighbors were German. At the end of my fourth year, when leaving the apartment and Germany, Ursula Stroh, my neighbor told me in the hallway that I spoke as good a German as any Hessischer. I told her that I was proud of that and that that might be great in Germany but not for American history with its hate of the = mercenary Hessian soldiers who were hired by George III during the Revolutionary = War. In fact, I was able to write in German for about ten years later I left there but without practice, I've forgotten much. Ironically, it does not seem to be the same with music as I can still play the Moonlight Sonata of Beethoven's from memory despite it was my fifth grade recital piece and = I'm 63. Go figure. Paul   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 1:40 PM Subject: Philosophy of organ learning     > We need to ask ourselves one very fundamental question: Is learning how > to make music (in this case, organ music) different from learning other > things? > > - > The slum quarters of Brazil produces some of the best soccer players on > earth. Before being picked up by professional clubs as teenagers, > they've been playing in the streets with their home-made balls, every > day, often for more than 10 years. > > Norwegian kids are enrolled in clubs from 6 years of age, getting to > play organized matches, guided by trained coaches. Relatively > systematically, they're taught the various kicks and tackles through > excercises, being "awarded" with some free playing at the end of the > session. > > Every year, Norwegian and Brazilian 16-year olds meet during Norway Cup > in Oslo. Every year, the Brazilians win hands-down. > -- > Most people master their native language(s) far better than they'll ever > master any musical instrument. Language is probably the most advanced > logical structure a human being ever learns. Still, this is difficult to > realize before learning a foreign language. > > One of my best friends fled together with his family from the civil war > in Bosnia-Hercegovina, eventually settling in Norway when he was 10. > After four months he spoke Norwegian fluently, and five years later it's > totally impossible to note a foreign accent. He learned Norwegian like > he had learned his native tongue -- by imitation and courage to speak, > even if he didn't know all the words yet. > > I dropped out of school some years ago and have missed hundreds of > English lessons. I haven't done any homework since third grade. All that > I know of the English language is what I've aquired by reading, writing, > and speaking it. > - > > It seems to me that most things can be learned trough imitating, doing, > failing, and correcting -- and that what ultimately counts is sheer > quantity. When learning the organ, "quantity" would not be just time > spent practising at the bench, but every organ-related brain process > being executed -- consciously or not. > > Jarle > http://jarle.moo.no > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.823 / Virus Database: 561 - Release Date: 12/26/2004    
(back) Subject: RE: Bad kids From: "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:38:05 -0000   What I am saying is that you have no right to expect children to be quiet = at church. It is very difficult to get children to stay quiet in any occasion especially church. And by meaning about the concert was that children = cannot see the validity or importance of prayer, music or worship. They will be noisy.   DS   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Randolph Runyon Sent: 29 December 2004 20:30 To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Bad kids   I hope you didn't think I thought a church service was a concert. I did think, however, that my meaning was clear from my words: "a meditative atmosphere, either through quiet music or moments of silence." Moments of silence are not what one goes to a concert to hear and quiet music is not all one would expect to hear at a concert. "Courtesy codes present at concerts" has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about.   Please explain what you mean by "Parents I have found try their best when it comes to entertaining kids at church." I do not understand your meaning. Do you mean that church is a place for entertaining kids? I thought it was a place for worship. If parents were really trying their best they would place their kids in the nursery provided and not in the pew next to someone trying to pray.   RR     On Dec 29, 2004, at 3:12 PM, Dominic Scullion wrote:   > Ok, I realise that babies screaming is pain while a service is taking > place. > > But believe it or not, church services are not designed for people to > come > and listen to music as they would in a concert. It is for quiet prayer > and > thought and if children go, as they are young, are going to make noise. > Parents I have found try their best when it comes to entertaining kids > at > church. > > Children and parents though, should not be expected to adhere to the > courtesy codes present at concerts in a place of worshup > > DS > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of > Randolph Runyon > Sent: 29 December 2004 18:52 > To: PipeChat > Subject: Re: Bad kids > > How about the problem of screaming babies and toddlers throughout the > church service? Has this gotten worse in recent years? It's certainly > a problem in my church. Kind of makes it impossible to maintain a > meditative atmosphere, either through quiet music or moments of > silence. Why are parents so thoughtless? We supposedly have a nursery > but not everyone uses it. > > Randy Runyon > Zion Lutheran Church > Hamilton, Ohio > runyonr@muohio.edu > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >     ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: RE: Screaming Kids in church From: "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:38:05 -0000   Charlie,     Yes it is distracting, but anyone should be allowed to go to Church including children.     Adults can learn to deal with the screaming.     DS   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Charlie Lester Sent: 29 December 2004 21:03 To: PipeChat Subject: Screaming Kids in church     "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> wrote,     =3D-> How about the problem of screaming babies and toddlers   throughout the church service? <-=3D       Some people do seem to be persistent about lugging their   babies into the church service - along with the big fancy   trolleys [or whatever you call 'em -- prams??], blankets,   bottles, clanking and jangling toys, and satchels-full of   lotions, powders, diapers and premoistened wipe-ups,   medications, etc.     We do have a nursery; when people with infants enter the   church the ushers direct them to the nursery but some people   decline. Of course, the ushers defer and let them come on in.     However, if their Precious Treasure starts caterwauling or   making a lot of commotion during the service, an usher will   tiptoe over and ask the family to step into the nursery   because the baby is disrupting the service.     People don't seem to realize how distracting it is --   ESPECIALLY to the pastor -- to have a baby babbling,   gurgling, and shrieking throughout the entire service.   Especially when there are several of them. It's very hard   for the pastors to try to preach over the racket.     ~   C         ******************************************************************   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!"   PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics   HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org   List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org   Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org   List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org>   List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org>   List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Re: Philosophy of organ learning From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:08:38 +0100   Paul Valtos wrote: > In fact, I was able to write in German for about ten years later I left > there but without practice, I've forgotten much. Ironically, it does not > seem to be the same with music as I can still play the Moonlight Sonata = of > Beethoven's from memory despite it was my fifth grade recital piece and = I'm > 63. Go figure. > Paul   I think this illustrates how immensely complex a natural language is. The Moonlight Sonata is, in all its beauty, quite simple in comparison.   Also, knowledge aquired in one's youth tend to be sticky. In addition to being an organist, my mother used to work as a geriatric nurse. She faced many severe cases of dementia, where the patients had lost their normal language abilities entirely, but were still able to recite hymns they had learned in school.   Jarle http://jarle.moo.no  
(back) Subject: Re: Bad kids From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:14:57 -0500     On Dec 29, 2004, at 5:38 PM, Dominic Scullion wrote:   > What I am saying is that you have no right to expect children to be > quiet at > church. It is very difficult to get children to stay quiet in any > occasion > especially church. And by meaning about the concert was that children > cannot > see the validity or importance of prayer, music or worship. They will > be > noisy. > > DS >   I agree. My problem is with the parents. I'm not speaking on behalf of myself as organist, since as long as I've done my job and they pay me I'm happy, but rather on behalf of the poor worshipper whose worship is disturbed by thoughtless parents. I don't worship at the church where I play, but I do try my best to contribute to a worshipful experience for those who do.   But then I saw your reply to Charles Lester: "Yes it is distracting, but anyone should be allowed to go to Church including children. Adults can learn to deal with the screaming." Huh? Are you serious?   R. Runyon      
(back) Subject: RE: Philosophy of organ learning (was Re: Organ Pieces) From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:33:18 -0000   I lent mine to someone and never got it back. I did find one on the = internet but the guy wanted $120 for it which I couldn't afford. It was a wonderful book.   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of = jch Sent: 29 December 2004 17:16 To: PipeChat Subject: RE: Philosophy of organ learning (was Re: Organ Pieces)   At 11:12 AM 12/29/04, you wrote: >Will Light <will.light@btinternet.com> wrote: >I learned my pedal technique, such as it is, from a wonderful book called >"The Science of Organ Pedaling" by Ellingford and Mears.   Unfortunately this book appears to be unavailable.   jch         ****************************************************************** "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Bedient Opus 21 From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:34:06 -0500   Pipechatters,   Andy Lawrence posted a message on 12/8/04 pointing us to a small new = Bedient organ in the back of the Nov TAO (I'm not a member, so I went to the website). I like looking at photos of organs, so I looked thru the = Bedient opus list as well as their Legacy Line of small trackers.   Wanting to search for some possible installation photos of Bedient organs, = I did a google search. Serendipitously I discovered something that has = really piqued my curiosity. Perhaps someone can share the scoop. If this has already been discussed, please just e-mail me privately instead of boring the list members.   Anyway, I came upon a site advertising the video, "Wind at one's Fingertips". I clicked on a link to preview a few minutes and hear some beautiful organ music from France. There was a scene in which the = organist of St. Mark's was telling about his enthusiasm for French music and French organs. This video is about the research and construction of their organ for St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Grand Rapids, MI. I was curious to = find the specifications, but I didn't see it in the opus list.   Searching further, I came upon the U. of N. Texas music dept website in which they mention their acquisition of a 1985 Bedient IV/41 tracker organ that was the gift from Robert and Shirley Ottman. They also mention that = it had been built for St. Mark's Episcopal in Grand Rapids, MI as a gift to = the church and community from Sara Lowry and O. William Lowry and dedicated in Grand Rapids on 9/14/86.   Back to the Bedient site, I was able to find the organ. It said it was installed in St. Mark's . . . 1984-85 and moved to University of North = Texas .. . . in 2003.   A French Canadian site had a rather detailed article about this organ and its installation at St. Mark's. There was mention that this organ was installed in the gallery with the understanding that the existing organ (?Austin, see below) and choir would remain at the chancel. " . . . = Vestry guided by William Elliott, organist and choirmaster whose love of early French organs and their music led to his unusual, but quite appropriate, recommendation . . . "   I searched and found the website for St. Mark's Episcopal in Grand Rapids and find nothing at all about this Bedient organ. In sections on the church's history as well as the music ministry and organ, there is mention of an Odell organ in 1867. They mention an Austin organ placed in the chancel in the 20th century. In discussing their new Walker organ, they mention that their Austin is being retired. Nowhere can I find any = mention of the Bedient organ.   1. Is there more than one St. Mark's Episcopal in Grand Rapids, MI? 2. This organ was surely a very expensive one given the trips to France = and the R & D. It appears to have remained in its original location barely 18 years. What's up with that? 3. Is there some kind of "behind the scenes" story about this? 4. Was this organ the private dream of an organist who was able to obtain donors only to find later that his congregation, not being French, didn't share the same appreciation for French music? I notice that a different name is given for the current organist/choirmaster on St. Mark's website. 5. Was this organ really more appropriate for the concert hall than a church? - hence its appropriate move to a university? 6. I wonder about the attitude of the Ottman family having their organ removed in such a short time? 7. It is certainly a good thing that this organ was moved - upon the donation of yet another family - to a university setting. 8. Is there a reason for things being so hush-hush on St. Mark's website about this organ. This appears to be a rather special organ and I would think that there would be some mention of it on their site - especially since they've devoted a section for photos of the installation of their = new pipe organ.   Anyway, I was just curious. I hope I haven't unwittingly stirred up any strong feelings here. Again, if so, please just reply privately.   Thanks, Keith    
(back) Subject: Re: New Year's Eve, Little Rock, AR From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:15:03 -0600   Since People are talking about New Year's Eve I=20 thought I would pass along information about a=20 New Year's Eve Recital in Little Rock.   Paul Jacobs will be playing the Annual Richard=20 Hixson Birthday Recital on January 31 at 7:30 PM=20 at Christ Church, 509 Scott St in Downtown Little=20 Rock.   These Annual Birthday recitals are given by Dr.=20 Wm. Richard Hixson as a gift to the community in=20 honor of his birthday. Besides being one of our=20 local dentists Richard is also an organist and=20 the programming always includes a large helping=20 of Bach reflecting his musical interests.   As I think most people know, Paul Jacobs is the=20 chairman of the organ department at New York's=20 Juilliard School at Lincoln Center. He was=20 appointed to the Juilliard faculty in 2003 at the=20 age of 25, making him one of the youngest faculty=20 appointments in the school's history.   We invite anyone in the area to join us for this=20 recital which will be followed by a reception in=20 the Church's Gallery. The organ is a 62 rank,=20 46 stop instrument by Nichols and Simpson, Inc.,=20 Organbuilders of Little Rock.=20 http://www.nicholsandsimpson.com/prod01.htm   David   **************************PROGRAM*******************************************= ** Sinfonia from Cantata No. 29 Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750)     Chorale Prelude: J. S. Bach Ich ruf zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ, BWV 639     Trio Sonata in C Major, BWV 529 J. S. Bach I. Allegro II. Largo III. Allegro     Prelude and Fugue in D Major, BWV 532 J. S. Bach     Intermission     Concerto No. 1 in g minor, Op. 4 George Frederic Handel I. Larghetto e staccato (1685-1759) II. Allegro III. Adagio IV. Allegro     Suite, Op. 5 Maurice Durufl=E9 Sicilienne (1902-1986) Toccata       This recital is a gift to the community by Dr. Wm. Richard Hixson, in honor of his birthday.  
(back) Subject: Re: Bad kids From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:32:52 -0600   St. James Major RC Church in New Orleans has a "Crying Room" Roy Redman ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DERREINETOR@aol.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: Re: Bad kids     Randy,   Some Roman Catholic churches have "cry rooms", which are segregated = from the nave by glass; the service is heard over loud speakers.=20   I certainly do not approve of this practice, though it does, indeed, = handle the problem of crying infants.=20   Thoughtful parents who do not care to use a nursery remove the child = at the first sign of crying. This may not be "politically correct", but = I am of the opinion that it is entirely appropriate for a pastor (or, = for that matter, a parishioner neighbor in the next pew) to request that = such disruptions be removed to the narthex or elsewhere.=20   I can think of no theological argument that justifies an entire = congregation being subjected to any sort of disruption, be it from a = crazed adult or a cranky, overtired, or soiled infant. Growing up (and = this was in the 70's) I never once recall a parent not taking a = screaming infant or small child out of the nave to be pacified.   Pax, Bill H. SJE, Boston.
(back) Subject: Crying babies and Nurseries From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:35:42 -0600   There are areas--and perhaps cultures--where there is very much an = emphasis on the family being together for certain events. In the USA, I have found that small southern rural congregations (and people from them) often feel VERY strongly that worship is for ALL God's family, crying babies and all. As a pastor or musician, you learn to deal with it quickly.   And it may be the same in some cultures. My cousin married into a family = of Serbian heritage, and, at least in that extended family, they were = literally offended if everybody was not brought to weddings, funerals, worship = events, etc......no matter the age! Family togetherness at significant events was far more important than peace and quiet.   I see and understand both points of view, though as a pastor I would = prefer that parents of howling infants would take them out and calm them down. = But I also learned years ago to ignore it and go right on preaching. After a service people will sometimes say to me, "Pastor, I'm sorry that I had to get up and leave or that the baby was crying, or........insert reason," = and usually I would not even have known about it if they hadn't mentioned it.   Besides, there was that funny time a couple of years ago when a Grandma tried to distract a fussy infant during a quiet Communion time. She = picked up Baby's stuffed frog, not realizing it had an electronic noisemaker in = it. Once she had squeezed it, it had to go through an entire cycle of "Ribit, ribit, ribit." Frankly, I was quite amused!   Dennis Steckley Lover of Cats, Pipe Organs & 1940-65 Sewing Machines    
(back) Subject: Re: Bad Kids From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 08:53:14 +0800   Why has no one quoted Proverbs 13:24 "He who withholds his rod hates his so= n, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently."   It's up to the parents to discipline their child ... keep 'em under control= (It doesn't take a village). We've got angels and angels-in-training in my= congregation (my eight-year-old falls in the second category.) There is a = nursery that the younger ones can attend, but, generally, the 6 and up shor= t Christians stay with the adults. Our kids are not unruly ... at least not= like the musicians.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Bad Kids Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:49:37 -0800   >=20 > I agree with Roy Kersey. I don't mind kids coming up to see the=20 > console or to ask questions AFTER CHURCH, but too many kids these=20 > days are not being taught manners or how to be polite. >=20 > (My God. I'm turning into a crotchety old fart right before your very eye= s.) >=20 > Sometimes kids come charging up to the console and just start=20 > mashing down on notes, or stepping on pedals, or trying to push or=20 > pull stops, or change the page of the hymnal, or steal my cough=20 > drops and pencils. >=20 > Quite frankly, by now my impulse is not to smile nicely at their=20 > endearing antics. Instead I glare menacingly at them and snarl, "GO=20 > SIT DOWN!" I often have to resist a great urge to whap them "upside=20 > the head." The temptation would be greater were it not for the=20 > incomprehensible amount of trouble I'd get into for daring to touch=20 > one of the little darlings. >=20 > Unlike the "good old days," when school teachers patrolled the=20 > hallways and playgrounds with a Fli-Back in hand, on the lookout=20 > for malefactors. And when they came upon one they generally did not=20 > hesitate to vigorously employ their "Board of Education." >=20 > Similarly, a child feared the wrath of his friends' parents -- and=20 > the other adults at school, church, scouts, etc. -- as much as he=20 > feared the wrath of his own. I knew darn well I'd better be on my=20 > best behavior at ALL of my friends' houses as well as at home. Not=20 > that I usually was (on my best behavior) mind you, but at least I=20 > did know there would be consequences. >=20 > Today, if another parent dared lay a finger on one of these=20 > rambunctious brats, well ... again ... it would make the 6 o'clock=20 > news. And ditto for the very parents! Good Lord, if a parent laid a=20 > hand on their child the whole community would be in a uproar over=20 > the "child abuse." The children would be taken away and put into=20 > horrific foster homes and the parents would be Red-Lettered for=20 > life. >=20 > It may not sound like it, but I really do love children. I am=20 > always glad to let them have a go at the organ or to answer their=20 > questions -- at appropriate times, and if they ask politely. I have=20 > even shown some of them the pipes which usually is a huge,=20 > awe-inducing thrill for them. >=20 > I just love the ill-behaved ones a little less and do not suffer=20 > their misbehavior. And I think our society in general is none the=20 > better for having demanded that parents become ever-more permissive=20 > and lax when disciplining their children. To the extent that they=20 > barely dare discipline them at all. And, again, certainly no=20 > teacher or other adult had better even THINK of so much as uttering=20 > a stern word, let alone meting out discipline of ANY sort. >=20 > So, "what's a mutha-- to do" ....... >=20 > Well, one especially pesky kid finally got the message when I told=20 > him if he didn't stop bothering me during church, I was going to=20 > lock him in the cellar boiler-room ... where there are giant=20 > spiders and rats crawling about who would eat him alive. He's been=20 > the picture of well-mannered politeness ever since. And he keeps=20 > his distance, one wary eye always trained on the boiler-room door=20 > whenever he sees me coming. >=20 > ~ > ~~~ > ~~~~~~~ > Charlie Lester > Crabby Old Grouch >=20 >=20 >=20 > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>       -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm