PipeChat Digest #5046 - Thursday, December 30, 2004
 
Re: Tonal Fnishing eye of the beholder
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
RE: Bad kids
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: southeast Kansas organist
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: Bad Adults
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
RE: Screaming Kids in church
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Give 'em H[ow]ell[s]
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Saville organs
  by <Tspiggle@aol.com>
Re: Saville organs
  by <Tspiggle@aol.com>
RE: Give 'em H[ow]ell[s]
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Bedient Opus 21
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
spitzflotes
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: Give 'em H[ow]ell[s]
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Give 'em H[ow]ell[s]
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
{{{*WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH*!!!}}}
  by "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com>
Re: Bedient Opus 21
  by "Hugh Drogemuller" <hdrogemuller@sympatico.ca>
Re: spitzflotes
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Pedal methods WAS Philosophy of organ learning
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: spitzflotes
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: Give 'em H[ow]ell[s]
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Give 'em H[ow]ell[s]
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
RE: St Vedast Foster lane. London
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Tonal Fnishing eye of the beholder From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:53:53 -0500   Great observation.   My views on what an organ should sound like change constantly, and I am proud of it. By that I don't mean that I like neo-baroque one minute, Wurlitzer the next. It just constantly gets refined. It shows I am = really listening to the organs I hear and play, instead of rejecting every organ that isn't exactly what I'm used to. Interestingly, it is usually small organs that change the way I think, mainly because their limited resources =   force creativity. It is also often a really bad organ that happens to = have one beautiful stop or combination. On a larger organ I'm more likely to just pull stops and play, though I try not to do that.   Andy   On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 05:31:36 EST, Seedlac wrote > Here we go again with absolutes. The reverse is also as common as > the present argument about too little time spent in "voicing" or > "finishing." I tuned an organ for my boss, who usually tunes it. I > fought like mad to pull it in to tune. The speech of so many pipes > was raw, blurry or wavy. The Trumpet sounded like 56 pipes from 56 > different organs. When I apologized to the organist, she was aghast, > exclaiming that the organ builder has spent weeks voicing the organ > for the room. She felt that all the time he had spent meant that the > voicing must be perfect. As if there was some sort of invisible > measure of perfection. Having tuned a couple organs by the builder > since, I can only conclude that this was his idea of perfection. The > entire concept of tonal design is arbitrary. What one person thinks > is great may make others hold their ears. I think of those early > neoclassic organs and the desire for clarity and unforced tone often > resulted in what I find to be an underwhelming result. Other early > neo-builders thought that little or no voicing was the true way to > go. In their opinion too much voicing took the energy out of the > pipe. They liked some of the raw quality. Much of what we all claim > to be as the end-all-be-all in organ sound has more to do with our > own early experiences with the organ. A coworker of mine went to a > college that had several Holtkamp organs. To this day that is his > yard stick for deciding on an instrument's worth. My formative years > were in a men & boy choir, the organ was a Skinner clone. So my > measurement of greatness still carries this as defining measurement > of an instrument's worth. > > Steve > Baltimore >     A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: RE: Bad kids From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:11:34 +0800     I swear I _never_ had the opportunity to act out during worship service whi= le I was growing up. None of the 20-30 sub-teens in our church get the oppo= rtunity either. A little discipline goes a long way. (No, there are no beat= ings) Children need to understand their boundries; parents need to set thos= e limits.   Sure we'll get the occasional crying child or the "dropped the hymnal out o= f boredom" but they are exceptions.   While you argue "Children and parents though, should not be expected to adh= ere to the courtesy codes present at concerts in a place of worship," I bel= ieve our Lord expects better from us: "Children obey your parents in everyt= hing, for this pleases the Lord." Col 3:20 NIV   OK, I did once get up on the front pew of a crowded dairy farming community= church and ask who stunk so much when I was about four ... but it was befo= re the service. :-)     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dominic Scullion" <dominicscullion@email.com> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: RE: Bad kids Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:38:05 -0000   >=20 > What I am saying is that you have no right to expect children to be quiet= at > church. It is very difficult to get children to stay quiet in any occasion > especially church. And by meaning about the concert was that children can= not > see the validity or importance of prayer, music or worship. They will be > noisy. >=20 > DS >=20   > > > > Children and parents though, should not be expected to adhere to the > > courtesy codes present at concerts in a place of worshup > > > > DS   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   --=20 ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: southeast Kansas organist From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:19:40 -0600   Hi, Dennis:   > Jarle, you didn't say where in SE Kansas he is located, but he is > potentially located near at least four builders--Reuter, Bedient, > Quimby, and Nichols & Simpson. Nothing more fascinating than visiting a > builder's workshop!   AND, . . . Temple Organs in Saint Joseph, Missouri.   F. Richard Burt     ..      
(back) Subject: Re: Bad Adults From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:22:40 +0000   On 12/29/04 8:54 PM, "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:   > The church council told the organist to play softer preludes, so as to ma= ke > chatting more convenient. I wish I was kidding...   I wish you were, TOO, Jarle. And you're right, across the board. Like St. John the Evangelist in Boston, and for very similar reasons, we have almost NO kids. But, for reasons I have not YET fathomed, EVERYbody is EXTREMELY quiet once they enter that nave. Organ music or not, what style=8Bmakes no difference. Just SOMEhow, before I ever saw this church, it's always been totally silent in there. (Unless there's a baptism=8Brare event=8Bwith a dozen aunts and uncles from who knows where. They just don't NOTICE!)   Alan    
(back) Subject: RE: Screaming Kids in church From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:27:15 -0600   The only time I have been recorded at the organ was one of those times. A soprano I had asked to sing brought her entire family. The husband, one of those traditional guys who know 'nuthin about raising no baby', to paraphrase a term, chose to place himself and the two very small children in the pew right in front of the organ. The baby started screaming and reaching for mama right in front of her early on in the service of lessons and carols, and by then we were wall-to-wall people. Daddy made no move to attempt to remove the child. I played like a bat out of hell - my nerves were shot by the constant screaming in my ear, and I was hell-bent to make the service culminate as quickly as possible. I think the soloist's feelings got hurt by attendees' comments afterward.   I don't want to be recorded, because if it can go wrong, it will go wrong then. If people are kind enough to suffer my playing, I return the favor so that they don't have to hear it for posterity.   It is not true that children cannot be still and quiet during church - my godchildren are model citizens during any church service, and it is a direct result of their parents' teaching and discipline. I have never had anything against children in church - they many times behave better than the adults. But there should be measures for cessation of interruption of worship - my father did not hesitate to remove me from the church for the least infraction, and I did not enjoy the intimate episodes with him behind the church when he corrected me.   And for those who talk throughout the prelude, I advocate playing Herbert Howells. Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Give 'em H[ow]ell[s] From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:39:29 -0500     On Dec 29, 2004, at 9:27 PM, Glenda wrote: > And for those who talk throughout the prelude, I advocate playing > Herbert Howells. >   Glenda, is that because you share Colin's distaste for this composer (as in, they get what they deserve) or because he wrote a number of quiet pieces?   Randy R.    
(back) Subject: Re: Saville organs From: <Tspiggle@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:49:14 EST   I believe the Holtcamp that was in Memphis is currently being installed at =   Advent Episcopal in Nashville.   Tom  
(back) Subject: Re: Saville organs From: <Tspiggle@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:51:20 EST   By the way, the Organtek out of Knoxville, TN goes all over the US = repairing Savilles. He can make it like new.   Tom  
(back) Subject: RE: Give 'em H[ow]ell[s] From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:09:07 -0600   Because I just happen to love pieces like his that start quietly, crescendo to a thunder, and suddenly die away in a whisper. It's not just good for embarrassing those who try to talk over the organ prelude; it's good when the organist is having trouble hearing the gossip - the louder you play, the louder they talk.   I told David Briggs about my use of Howells in this fashion - he seemed to get a kick out of the idea.   No, I love Howells.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Randolph Runyon Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 8:39 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Give 'em H[ow]ell[s]     On Dec 29, 2004, at 9:27 PM, Glenda wrote: > And for those who talk throughout the prelude, I advocate playing > Herbert Howells. >   Glenda, is that because you share Colin's distaste for this composer (as in, they get what they deserve) or because he wrote a number of quiet pieces?          
(back) Subject: Re: Bedient Opus 21 From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:17:38 -0600     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 5:34 PM Subject: Bedient Opus 21     > 4. Was this organ the private dream of an organist who was able to = obtain > donors only to find later that his congregation, not being French, = didn't > share the same appreciation for French music?   I think this is probably the bottom line. If you like French organ music, this would be a fantastic organ. If, however, you like the Episcopal Liturgy, you would want plenty of strings, an English Horn, a Tuba, etc.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: spitzflotes From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:29:16 EST   dear list,   the organ at my church has a 4' spitzflote on the great, which i am not = fond of. after thinking about it, i realized i've never heard a spitzflote i liked. i know it's a hybrid -- sorta principally, sorta flutey. i can = understand having one on a small organ where it has to serve two purposes, but on an organ of 32 ranks & 3 manuals, i don't see the purpose of having one on = the great, if at all. wouldn't a 4' flute be more appropriate?   can someone enlighten me about the use of spitzflotes on moderate-sized organs?   scot  
(back) Subject: Re: Give 'em H[ow]ell[s] From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:42:31 -0500   Great! Just what I'm looking for. I guess you mean the psalm preludes especially (all but one of them).   Randy R.     On Dec 29, 2004, at 10:09 PM, Glenda wrote:   > Because I just happen to love pieces like his that start quietly, > crescendo to a thunder, and suddenly die away in a whisper. It's not > just good for embarrassing those who try to talk over the organ > prelude; > it's good when the organist is having trouble hearing the gossip - the > louder you play, the louder they talk. > > I told David Briggs about my use of Howells in this fashion - he seemed > to get a kick out of the idea. > > No, I love Howells. > > Glenda Sutton > gksjd85@direcway.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of > Randolph Runyon > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 8:39 PM > To: PipeChat > Subject: Give 'em H[ow]ell[s] > > > On Dec 29, 2004, at 9:27 PM, Glenda wrote: >> And for those who talk throughout the prelude, I advocate playing >> Herbert Howells. >> > > Glenda, is that because you share Colin's distaste for this composer > (as in, they get what they deserve) or because he wrote a number of > quiet pieces? > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >    
(back) Subject: Re: Give 'em H[ow]ell[s] From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:46:45 EST   Friends,   Give them Howells, Sowerby, Titcomb and Byrd; Victorian nastiness; Payne, the absurd; Give them Chadwick and Brahms and some dirty bird, And a Boston Composer of which they've never heard; Tired composers with Dudley Buck in, Give them NEC Queens with a Brahmin figured in. What does it take, a good service to play? A bunch of old queens--any Feast Day. Who wears the green Carnation, who's a bit Gay? I'll take the high churchman on any given day.   Pax, and a green carnation on the lapel,   Bill H.  
(back) Subject: {{{*WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH*!!!}}} From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:47:35 -0800   =3D-> Children and parents though, should not be expected to adhere to the courtesy codes present at concerts in a place of worshup <-=3D   Why not? Why is talking and making noise and running around and crying and using the cell phone and reading the newspaper any less rude -- but supposedly more permissible -- in church than in concert hall?       =3D-> What I am saying is that you have no right to expect children to be quiet at church. <-=3D   Why not? I was taught from a very early age how to behave in church. And when I did not behave properly, I certainly experienced the consequences.       =3D-> It is very difficult to get children to stay quiet in any occasion especially church. <-=3D   Right. Which is why most churches have nurseries and/or "junior church." At least, for the ones whose parents are too weak or clueless to properly train and discipline them.       =3D-> And by meaning about the concert was that children cannot see the validity or importance of prayer, music or worship. They will be noisy. <-=3D   Right. Again, which is why most churches have nurseries and/or "junior church" -- where young children belong until they ARE old enough to "see the validity or importance of prayer, music or worship." AND are old enough (and sufficiently trained) to know how to behave in public.       =3D-> Yes it is distracting, but anyone should be allowed to go to Church including children. <-=3D   Is this a constitutional right, or a parochial one? Yes, I know Jesus said "suffer the little children..." but he wasn't preaching in an enclosed space; he was on a hillside or under a tree or in a boat. This is not a valid argument although it is usually trotted out by those who insist on foisting their children on everyone around them everywhere they go.       =3D-> Adults can learn to deal with the screaming. <-=3D   That's one of the most bizarre statements I have ever read on any organ forum.   Adults can also learn to deal with other people's body odor, crude personal hygiene, bar-room language, loading dock manners, smoking, prejudice, discrimination, and a whole host of unpleasantries that emanate from their fellow men and women. To say nothing of stuff like bad driving, drunkenness, road rage, cutting in line, and even personal assaults. That does not mean that adults HAVE to "learn to deal with it," or in fact should even be OBLIGED to do so.   One of the things I did not know about Virgil Fox that I found out by reading "The Dish" -- and that caused my admiration for him to grow even more -- is that he was very frank with people about things like bad breath and body odor. He told more than one person, "Honey, you stink to high heavens." And I say, more power to him for having the courage to speak up when he was offended by someone else "invading his space" with odors.   And the same applies to disruptive, unruly, undisciplined children of ALL ages -- from one month to a hundred years old. And WHEREVER they are -- in church, concert hall, or supermarket. (Another personal pet peeve -- unsupervised children running up and down the aisles in the markets, and babies sitting in food carts wailing and bellowing with no attempt whatsoever being made to quiet them down.)       =3D-> I can think of no theological argument that justifies an entire congregation being subjected to any sort of disruption, be it from a crazed adult or a cranky, overtired, or soiled infant. Growing up (and this was in the 70's) I never once recall a parent not taking a screaming infant or small child out of the nave to be pacified. <-=3D   Exactly. Problem is that you and me are, ever more and more, in the minority in this. More and more often, we are finding people who impose onto others an almost-religious entitlement to do what they want, when they want, where they want, and to hell with anyone who may be affected by their willfulness. And the same applies to their screaming, unruly offspring!   Yeah, yeah. I knew I said I wasn't going to talk about this any more. But I had no idea that the rebuttals would be so irrational, ludicrous and nonsensical. If I didn't know better, I'd say someone's just trying to "pull my chain" here.     ~ C      
(back) Subject: Re: Bedient Opus 21 From: "Hugh Drogemuller" <hdrogemuller@sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:53:30 -0500   At 09:17 PM 29-12-04 -0600, you wrote:   >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> >To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 5:34 PM >Subject: Bedient Opus 21 > > > > 4. Was this organ the private dream of an organist who was able to = obtain > > donors only to find later that his congregation, not being French, = didn't > > share the same appreciation for French music?     >John Speller responded.........   >I think this is probably the bottom line. If you like French organ = music, >this would be a fantastic organ. If, however, you like the Episcopal >Liturgy, you would want plenty of strings, an English Horn, a Tuba, etc. > > >Is this the Church that is getting or has already installed a large J.W. >Walker instrument? On the subject of French organs in Anglican Churches >wasn't there the odd Cavaille Coll installed in the U.K. including the >Blackburn Church that later became the Cathedral? If a wimpy Frobenius >can work in Kingston-on Thames parish church then I would think anything >goes . I would include the Rieger in Christ Church, Oxford in >this category also.     HD                
(back) Subject: Re: spitzflotes From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:53:53 EST   Dear Scot:   I've always felt that a good Harmonic Flute would always work better on the Great than another Hybred principalish flute. Heck, if you had an 8' Bourdon on the great I'd have a 4' Harmonic flute and by transmission wire it in at 8' also with 12 bass notes from the Bourdon. You could use it at both pitches at different times. Now all you need is an 8' Viola D' Gamba for the French Fonds to go with the Principal 8'. Now you have a versatile Great in the French style.   You'll wonder how you got along for so long without it. Another forgotten stop on the swell is the 4' Salicet. It has more uses than you can ever conceive of doing. Why a Larigot or a sifflote before considering it?   Oh Please Oh Please organ builders bring back the Dulcianas 16' 8' 4' and Unda Maris on a choir division. These soft stops are fine as a unit stop. You haven't lived if you haven't combined a soft 2 2/3' with an 8' for that missing 8' Quintadena.   I've always believed in experimentation that works convincingly.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Pedal methods WAS Philosophy of organ learning From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:32:09 -0800 (PST)   OK Nilson, Jones' Pedal Mastery, Germani, Elligford and Mears One now wishes to re-examine various pedal methods. Is the latter of the 4 something that was used in England? Here, teachers seem to use Nilson, or just extract pedal parts from the = literature. The Nilson indeed helps with ankle flexiblity and = stradaling/playing 3rds with one foot Some of the repertoire also seems to help with developing this, no? We're = working on several of the Reger 30 Short Chorales, and simply marking the = pedal lines with fluid, even movement. The same with some of the Vierne = 24/Libre. My teacher assigns me certain things with hopes that I will come = back with good shape to all the parts, including good pedaling. Seems to = be working for his liking. The excercises certainly encourage one to mark = pedalings in their scores. Since finding out about both the Nilson and Germani and using bits of = both, I have felt a BIG difference in comfort and ability with in the last = month. The only thing that bothers me: Why had none of my previous DMA = holding teachers not assigned me Nilson or Germani? Are some teachers = just not fond of those methods? (One teacher liked alternate toes for = EVERYTHING except the times where it was just absolutely needed...but = sometimes, it just won't work)   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
(back) Subject: Re: spitzflotes From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:11:38 -0600 (Central Standard Time)   On 12/29/04 @ 21:30:50, Scot <the BlueeyedBear> wrote: -------Original Message------- > dear list, > the organ at my church has a 4' spitzflote on the great, which i am > not fond of. after thinking about it, i realized i've never heard a > spitzflote i liked. i know it's a hybrid -- sorta principally, sorta flutey. First of all, I recall from previous discussions that this instrument is a Wicks. Am I recalling correctly? That fact alone explains much, unfortunately. I used to maintain one instrument by this builder dating from the late = 1960 s that is located in southern Wisconsin that had Principals(!) that were voiced SO badly as to be positively unusable! And the organist always wondered why she didn't like them. Imagine the tears of joy in her eyes after they got completely re-voiced. > i can understand having one on a small organ where it has to serve > two purposes, but on an organ of 32 ranks & 3 manuals, i don't see > the = purpose of having one on the great, if at all. wouldn't a 4' flute > > be more appropriate? Not necessarily. They can, and should be a very pretty and utterly = charming stop if treated correctly, voicing-wise on ANY sized instrument! > can someone enlighten me about the use of spitzflotes on > moderate-sized organs? They can make very nice "baby" Principals if properly scaled and voiced. I have paired them with a matching Celeste in my past projects for a melt-in-your-mouth" effect on the Swell Division of smaller instruments. = It s a little bolder than an anemic string, and not as "edgy" in tone. Faithfully, Richard Schneider  
(back) Subject: Re: Give 'em H[ow]ell[s] From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:11:52 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Spotless prose!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- DERREINETOR@aol.com wrote:   > Friends, > > Give them Howells, Sowerby, Titcomb and Byrd; > Victorian nastiness; Payne, the absurd; > Give them Chadwick and Brahms and some dirty bird, > And a Boston Composer of which they've never heard;       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Give 'em H[ow]ell[s] From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:49:54 EST   Colin,   You've done a better scan of my doggerell than this hopeless Tory could = have done.   Thank you for leaving out the worst of it.   All in fun,   Bill Harris, Boston  
(back) Subject: RE: St Vedast Foster lane. London From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:19:24 +1300   >No Ross. The organ in St Vedast was moved from St Alban's Fulham to St Vedast by Noel Mander in the 1950's. St Vedast was burned out in the war.   Apologies for the lapse on my part. Pity I can no longer ask George = Sanders the date he did the St Vedast rebuild. I don't think he ever told me the actual date. George was trained in HN&B and worked for them for some = years, but also spent a time with Mander's and remained close friends with them till his death. About ten years ago, in his 70s, he spent some hours at St Paul's, being taken over every inch of that rebuild.   >You might be interested to know Ross, that we have now got the bells of = St Barnabas, Pimlico, sounding again. We can't ring them full circle yet as = the spire is unsafe. However, we are using the chiming apparatus. Our mutual friend Alasdair had a letter from a local resident. This letter complained about the organist of St Barnabas practising at 8.30 on a Sunday morning. The letter finished by saying that the writer trusted "that this will be = the end of the matter". Alasdair wrote back to say it wouldn't be. As he = didn't intend to stop the organist practicing. And, that he was having the bells repaired.   That's good news indeed. With Alasdair as my guide, we went into every = nook and cranny of St Barnabas's, including the worst toilet I've ever seen in = my life - semi outside and clearly not used for yonks. Alsadair said he'd = never seen it before. It's beyond the Vestry at the (if I recall correctly) north-east.   Ross