PipeChat Digest #4271 - Friday, February 13, 2004
 
RE: Hi...I'm new to the list
  by "vincent.lefevre" <vincent.lefevre@tiscali.be>
Re: Closing Music Dept.s in famous Universities
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Closing Music Dept.s in famous Universities
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Closing Music Dept.s in famous Universities
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
picking of Randy/apology was:Closing Music Dept.s in famous Universities
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: picking of Randy/apology was:Closing Music Dept.s in famous	Universit
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: hyfrydol
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Organ Department at the University of Illinois
  by <Montre1978@aol.com>
Re: Lou Dobbs tonight
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: Organ Department at the University of Illinois
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Organ Department at the University of Illinois
  by "Scott Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Lou Dobbs last night
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Left, Right, etc.
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Closing Music Dept.s in famous Universities
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Hi...I'm new to the list
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
careful, now...
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
Re: careful, now...
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Welcome Desiree - Re: Hi...I'm new to the list
  by "David Evangelides" <davide@theatreorgans.com>
Re: careful, now...
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Left, Right, etc.
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Lou Dobbs last night
  by "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Hi...I'm new to the list From: "vincent.lefevre" <vincent.lefevre@tiscali.be> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:47:22 +0100   Welcome Desiree! This is a mighty forum to participate in, believe me.   Vincent from Bruges in Belgium     _____   Van: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] Namens = T.Desiree' Hines Verzonden: donderdag 12 februari 2004 22:41 Aan: pipechat@pipechat.org Onderwerp: Hi...I'm new to the list     Hello   im Desiree' and I just joined this list per the advise of another = listserv. I was told that this list might be where a chummy and chatty organist will feel welcomed.     Please say hello!   Greeting from the cold, windy city of Chicago.       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   _____   Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D22055/*http:/taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html> = your refund fast by filing online      
(back) Subject: Re: Closing Music Dept.s in famous Universities From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:20:38 -0500   Ironically, in certain quarters (not my own), classical music is itself considered elitist. By the way, I wonder if you consider it elitist, = Ron, to spell "elitist" (or "leftist") correctly? Perhaps you are confusing "-ist," which means "adherent," with "-est," the superlative suffix. ;-) = I certainly agree with you that our culture is in a sad decline. But it's a bit of a stretch to blame it on the Left. Corporate America and Congress, whom you also blame, are hardly in the hands of the Left. Seems to me = that the Right is more to blame. It is in the interests of Corporate America = and (.... well, I'll try not to get too political here) to keep the populace dumb enough to buy their products (and vote for them). Surely you would agree that Praise Bands are in league with the Religious Right. It's the Religious Right that wants to dumb down our churches.     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu         on 2/13/04 1:14 AM, RonSeverin@aol.com at RonSeverin@aol.com wrote:   ,,, When are we going to take back our schools to teach students, rather than indoctrination on the leftest, elitest agenda? This has got to stop somewhere so that students can make prudent choices for their future and learn what they really want to learn. This includes study of organ and piano performance, choral conducting, and orchestral srtudies.   Ron Severin          
(back) Subject: Re: Closing Music Dept.s in famous Universities From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:44:50 EST   In a message dated 2/13/2004 7:20:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, runyonr@muohio.edu writes: Surely you would agree that Praise Bands are in league with the Religious =   Right. It's the Religious Right that wants to dumb down our churches.     Randy Runyon Music Director Oh please............................. it is the pastor and ruling board that want to control the money and the people.... Money sex and power----it is all about power and money and the LEFT likes =   that same stuff too. they just prefer to redistribute it rather than keep = it all.....LOL. the fault lies with the people who DO NOT WANT TO GO TO = CHURCH TO WORSHIP--they want to be "tickled" in the ear and FEEL good. No one side = has that locked up.   In the meantime, the pendulum WILL swing back to a more moderate conglomeration of worship styles. Everyone will be blended---even = Saddleback Community and or Hybels up in Chicago.   no more politics from:   dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Closing Music Dept.s in famous Universities From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:00:47 -0500   on 2/13/04 7:44 AM, Keys4bach@aol.com at Keys4bach@aol.com wrote:   Oh please............................. it is the pastor and ruling board that want to control the money and the people.... Money sex and power----it is all about power and money and the LEFT likes that same stuff too. they just prefer to redistribute it rather than keep = it all.....LOL. the fault lies with the people who DO NOT WANT TO GO TO = CHURCH TO WORSHIP--they want to be "tickled" in the ear and FEEL good. No one = side has that locked up.   In the meantime, the pendulum WILL swing back to a more moderate conglomeration of worship styles. Everyone will be blended---even Saddleback Community and or Hybels up in Chicago.   no more politics from:   dale in Florida     "Oh please...." Do you have to adopt that tone, as if I were a blithering idiot? Thanks a lot, it makes for a great way to start the morning.   Which pastor and which ruling board? Sure, there are pastors and ruling boards that want the control, the money, and the people (not sure about = the sex, though you if insist, OK), but there are larger social--and political--forces at work too. To say there are no politics in the mix is to ignore reality. Sure, we can, and on an organ chat list serve, should, avoid talking politics on the level of political parties and candidates, = but if we refuse to investigate the larger political forces assaulting our churches we are being willfully naive.     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu            
(back) Subject: picking of Randy/apology was:Closing Music Dept.s in famous Universities From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:35:10 EST   In a message dated 2/13/2004 8:00:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, runyonr@muohio.edu writes:   > but there are larger social--and political--forces at work too. To say > there are no politics in the mix is to ignore reality. Sure, we can, = and on an > organ chat list serve, should, avoid talking politics on the level of > political parties and candidates, but if we refuse to investigate the = larger > political forces assaulting our churches we are being willfully naive. >   sorry to offend you Randy that was not the point i was trying to make. i just did not appreciate it all being the "right's" fault. i enjoy the political aspect of the list precisely because it affects everyday life.   i just meant i wasn't going to do anymore politics.   AGAIN I APOLOGIZE for what you thought was personal,,,,,,,   be well   dale in Florida a minority amongst minorities.....    
(back) Subject: Re: picking of Randy/apology was:Closing Music Dept.s in famous Universities From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:22:07 -0500   Dear Dale, Thanks! I feel much better now. In your previous post, you wrote: = "and the LEFT likes that same stuff too. they just prefer to redistribute it rather than keep it all." Sounds suspiciously Christian to me! Cf. Matt. 19: 21. But again, thanks. Maybe I overreacted....   All best,     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu           on 2/13/04 8:35 AM, Keys4bach@aol.com at Keys4bach@aol.com wrote:   In a message dated 2/13/2004 8:00:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, runyonr@muohio.edu writes:   but there are larger social--and political--forces at work too. To say there are no politics in the mix is to ignore reality. Sure, we can, and = on an organ chat list serve, should, avoid talking politics on the level of political parties and candidates, but if we refuse to investigate the = larger political forces assaulting our churches we are being willfully naive.     sorry to offend you Randy that was not the point i was trying to make. i just did not appreciate it all being the "right's" fault. i enjoy the political aspect of the list precisely because it affects everyday life.   i just meant i wasn't going to do anymore politics.   AGAIN I APOLOGIZE for what you thought was personal,,,,,,,   be well   dale in Florida a minority amongst minorities.....        
(back) Subject: Re: hyfrydol From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:26:39 EST   In a message dated 2/11/2004 9:55:51 PM Central Standard Time, gedeckt@usit.net writes: Welsh - means Lovely -- noel jones, aago noeljones@frogmusic.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ moderator, rodgers organ users group frog music press www.frogmusic.com 423 887-7594 athens, tn, usa Yes, and it's right there in Ralph Vaughan-William's score, oops, except = (as I NOW recall) he places that word with the Rhosymedre piece.   More research . . . I'm, uh, over and out! Google here I come.   Dale G. Rider Independence, MO    
(back) Subject: Organ Department at the University of Illinois From: <Montre1978@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:07:51 -0500   I am here to clarify demeaning and insulting rumors said about the = "struggling organ department at U of I."   I have lived in Champaign for 7 years, working on a degree in organ. I = have seen four different professors including the late Dr. Farris, Carla = Edwards, Mike Keeley, and current professor Dana Robinson.   When Farris was here, the organ department had about 12-18 majors. When = he took full time status at Eastmen, all of those majors either went with = him or sought out another schools. In a period of two years, this = department was in sad shape with me being the only organ major.   Currently Dana Robinson is the instructor, a person I look up to with = great respect. He has helped my technique tremendously in the past 3 = years and I have won competitions and scholarships because of his wise = teaching, practices and support in his students. He wants the best and = strives for us all to work hard to become the best.   This department has nearly 20 or more students, major and minor. I do not = think this is struggling at all. You be the judge.   Scott Montgomery www.scottmontgomery.net  
(back) Subject: Re: Lou Dobbs tonight From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:26:56 -0500   At 04:55 PM 2004-02-12 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 2/12/2004 4:43:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 >acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes: > >>can=E2=80=99t see it, but I=E2=80=99ll certainly be interested in a= report. Do the=20 >>figures change if you take into account also Masonic temples and concert= =20 >>venues? And, if so, what does that mean? > > >it means they make the most money.......as far as units go European=20 >companies make more units per year----and so can also claim to be the=20 >biggest company. > >oh well > >dale in florida     Dale,   I'm sure it should have read, Allen, World;s largest builder of Classical=20 Organs, which would include churches, homes, temples, concert halls. They= =20 also build a number of theatre organs.   As to unit sales, I'm not sure they sell more units than Rodgers even,=20 although they sell more higher priced organs. Several European=20 manufacturers also make more units.   As to making money, Allen lost a considerable amount of money in the organ= =20 business, in the 1st 9 months of last year.   Arie V    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Department at the University of Illinois From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:37:17 -0600   Scott, I agree that 26 students is a decent number, but a school that doesn't even hire a full time professor for so many students is not showing a whole lot of interest in organ. It is the "higher ups" that close organ divisions, as we have seen at NU. Alicia Zeilenga Sub-Dean AGO@UI "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: Montre1978@aol.com To: pipechat@pipechat.org Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:07:51 -0500 Subject: Organ Department at the University of Illinois   > I am here to clarify demeaning and insulting rumors said about the > "struggling organ department at U of I." > > I have lived in Champaign for 7 years, working on a degree in organ. I > have seen four different professors including the late Dr. Farris, > Carla Edwards, Mike Keeley, and current professor Dana Robinson. > > When Farris was here, the organ department had about 12-18 majors. > When he took full time status at Eastmen, all of those majors either > went with him or sought out another schools. In a period of two years, > this department was in sad shape with me being the only organ major. > > Currently Dana Robinson is the instructor, a person I look up to with > great respect. He has helped my technique tremendously in the past 3 > years and I have won competitions and scholarships because of his wise > teaching, practices and support in his students. He wants the best and > strives for us all to work hard to become the best. > > This department has nearly 20 or more students, major and minor. I do > not think this is struggling at all. You be the judge. > > Scott Montgomery > www.scottmontgomery.net > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Department at the University of Illinois From: "Scott Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:41:11 -0800 (PST)   Then be sure to say struggling organ department because of school politics. You make it sound has if you have issues with the instructor, which should be your personal issues and not to be shared with the rest of the world. --- Alicia Zeilenga <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> wrote: > Scott, > I agree that 26 students is a decent number, but a > school that doesn't > even hire a full time professor for so many students > is not showing a > whole lot of interest in organ. It is the "higher > ups" that close organ > divisions, as we have seen at NU. > Alicia Zeilenga > Sub-Dean AGO@UI > "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis" > > >   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html  
(back) Subject: Lou Dobbs last night From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:44:10 -0500     It was all of about two minutes long. Because they kept showing someone playing an organ with visible pipes in a church (though it sounded kind of electronic), some inattentive viewers might have been misled into thinking they made pipe organs. They did say prices started at $10,000. What = model might that be?     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu          
(back) Subject: Left, Right, etc. From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:53:25 -0500   On 2/13/04 7:20 AM, "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> wrote:   > Surely you would agree that Praise Bands are in league with the Religious > Right. It's the Religious Right that wants to dumb down our churches.   I certainly agree with the second sentence. And with the first one, too, i= f it=B9s understood that that =B3league=B2 is an odd one. By which I mean that the religious right, as we now use the term, means fundamentalist evangelicals, which sounds =B3conservative/right,=B2 all right, but I don=B9t think they are. Surely the REAL =B3religious right=B2 is very conservative=8Bthat is, for example= , old-fashioned Roman Cathoics, conservative Eastern Orthodox, strictly theological orthodox Lutherans, and the like. The =B3fundamentalists,=B2 by contrast, are FAR from conservative/orthodox, but are the =B3left=B2 wing of th= e protestant reformation, as differentiated from the =B3conservative=B2 Lutheran wing of the reformation..   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Closing Music Dept.s in famous Universities From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:18:30 -0800 (PST)   oKAY?!? I totally agree here with Dale! And Thank GOD i found a nicer bunch of organists who have strong opinions = like I do.   Oh please............................. it is the pastor and ruling board that want to control the money and the = people.... Money sex and power----it is all about power and money and the LEFT likes = that same stuff too. they just prefer to redistribute it rather than keep = it all.....LOL. the fault lies with the people who DO NOT WANT TO GO TO = CHURCH TO WORSHIP--they want to be "tickled" in the ear and FEEL good. No = one side has that locked up. In the meantime, the pendulum WILL swing back to a more moderate = conglomeration of worship styles. Everyone will be blended---even = Saddleback Community and or Hybels up in Chicago. no more politics from: dale in Florida     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online  
(back) Subject: Re: Hi...I'm new to the list From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:20:24 -0600   A big Canadian welcome to our list Desiree. Glad to have you on board.   Russ Greene St. Andrew's Anglican Church (Woodhaven) Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada    
(back) Subject: careful, now... From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:37:17 -0800   Ok, folks....   Let's be careful about sweeping generalizations concerning worship = styles.....   There are some of us on this list who choose to serve (notice I said = CHOOSE) in a church where there happens to be a contemporary service and a = praise band...   There are (horrors) even those of us who have the audacity to LEAD one = and LIKE it!   I am SICK and TIRED of constantly hearing organists WHINE about the = things that have happened in worship styles.... for HEAVEN'S sake - DO YOU REALLY THINK = GOD CARES IN WHAT FORM WE WORSHIP? No, not if we are doing so in spirit and in = truth.   The so-called dumbing-down of worship has as much to do with boring = organ-playing and people who have allowed their liturgy to become a routine as it does some vast = right-wing conspiracy <grin>   Foks, we'll not agree on this, I'm sure, but PLEASE, PLEASE be careful = with your emotions about this - I KNOW there are bad situations out there, I KNOW there are power-hungry = pastors and people who do the "contemporary service" for the wrong reasons   I also KNOW there are those who enjoy this style and try to do it with = excellence and integrity too - please remember for every attention-hungry performance-oriented praise = band/worship leader out there there is also someone else who desires to use a different medium and = style to reach out to people who don't care for tradition. And also, please be careful what you say = about Willow and Saddleback - I've had the privilege of spending time with the leadership from BOTH of those = churches, and their focus is not on whining about traditional worship - their focus is about seeing people come to a = relationship with God.   Having said all that, I've known Randy for a couple of years via the = list, and I've known Dale for (gosh is it that long?) 14 years now. Both of them are great guys and great musicians, and I'm = proud to call them my friends, even if I _don't_ always agree with them.   All the Best,   Jonathan  
(back) Subject: Re: careful, now... From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:44:39 -0800 (PST)   EXACTLY AGAIN! in Agreement with Jonathan orwig When we organists use big sounds to aaccompany hymns, and stop having = apathetic "the organ is a liturgical instrument" attitudes, and play with = some Coral Ridge Diane Bish Ruffatti zest...thats when people will stop = feeling that the organ is dead and un-helpful in worship. Me likes this list....me likes me likes!         From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online  
(back) Subject: Welcome Desiree - Re: Hi...I'm new to the list From: "David Evangelides" <davide@theatreorgans.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:51:13 -0600   Welcome Desiree from 6,200=92 high in the Rockies.   David E   David Evangelides International Bible Society Colorado Springs, Colorado      
(back) Subject: Re: careful, now... From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:09:01 EST   Regarding sweeping generalizations:   As long as the service is to tell the gospel and not tickle/make me feel = good then it is quality worship.   We all know however that way too often we do it because Warren and Hybels = et al say that is the only way to grow a church. Entire UMC conferences are = doing that-----W.Va., FL, and others.   There are other ways as well and other styles are growing, thinking PCA in =   particular.   Most growing churches require something of the members and that is the key =   not worship style.   Having said that to try and be in agreement with my (yes it has been THAT LONG) friend Jonathan, i use midi every week and we do a lightly blended = worship at my Lutheran church. And the organ makes a wonderful pad instrument.   <G>   dale in Florida      
(back) Subject: Re: Left, Right, etc. From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:10:41 EST   In a message dated 2/13/2004 11:56:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,=20 acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes:   > The =E2=80=9Cfundamentalists,=E2=80=9D by contrast, are FAR from conservat= ive/orthodox,=20 > but are the =E2=80=9Cleft=E2=80=9D wing of the protestant reformation, as=20= differentiated from=20 > the =E2=80=9Cconservative=E2=80=9D Lutheran wing of the reformation.. =20 >=20   i continue to learn at the feet of a giant.   dale in florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Lou Dobbs last night From: "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:14:58 -0600   Randy wrote: "They did say prices started at $10,000. What model might = that be?"   Good question Randy. 10K for a new Allen? ...not likely. A 3 manual of solid disposition STARTS around $75-100K. Hard to find a "newer" = pre-owned Allen under $20K, even on the Theatre Organ Classifieds!   Perhaps there is an Allen dealer on this list that can clarify??? It was much less expensive importing my new digital organ from Europe .. though, = I admit much more inconvenient. Being a custom instrument, there was a wait of several months.   Cheers,   Tim       --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.587 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 2/12/2004