PipeChat Digest #4274 - Saturday, February 14, 2004 Re: there's organs, then there's ORGANS by <RMB10@aol.com> Re: careful, now... by <RMB10@aol.com> Re: careful, now... by <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Re: Recital Announcements--Cadet Chapel by <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Re: there's organs, then there's ORGANS by <Keys4bach@aol.com> RE: careful, now... by "Glenda" <email@example.com> Re: PipeChat Digest #4273 - 02/14/04 by "John Foss" <firstname.lastname@example.org> RE: Lou Dobbs last night by "Michael David" <email@example.com> Re: Lou Dobbs last night by "Matthew N. Chegezy" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Comparing Diane to Virgil by "Charlie Lester" <email@example.com> Re: Comparing Diane to Virgil by <Keys4bach@aol.com> Re: there's organs, then there's Ruffatti... by <TubaMagna@aol.com> RE: PipeChat Digest #4273 - 02/14/04 by "james nerstheimer" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: there's organs, then there's Ruffatti... by <email@example.com> a question by <firstname.lastname@example.org> Worship Style by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <email@example.com> Re: Lou Dobbs last night by "noel jones" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Stephen Roberts (was Re: careful, now...) by "Mike Gettelman" <email@example.com>
(back) Subject: Re: there's organs, then there's ORGANS From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 05:59:06 EST Bud wrote: >I haven't heard any NEW Ruffati work, so I will reserve comment on THAT; >the St. Mary's Cathedral instrument obviously didn't take into account >the design of the BUILDING ... whose fault THAT was, I don't know. It >may sound good in recording, but in person all the sound goes up the >Maytag agitator (chuckle). The St. Mary's organ is now over 30 years old. Ted Alan Worth (the US Ruffatti rep at the time) Msgr. Robert Hayburn, and Antonio Ruffatti = designed the organ and did the tonal work on it. It's a visually exciting organ, but = rather dated tonally, being installed in 1970 or 1971. If I understand = correctly, Reuter has been contracted to do a rebuild or tonal work or additions or something. Ted Worth once told me that the Cathedral had plans to install an = antiphonal division to help the sound in the room, but money was an object and it = never came to pass. St. Mary's does not even begin to compare to the new = Ruffatti work. When we were looking at Ruffattis, we heard Church of the Epiphany = in Miami in the morning and then went to Coral Ridge after lunch. It's = amazing what 30 years of tonal development can do. Antonio Ruffatti didn't let Piero = and Francesco do the kind of tonal work they wanted to. He favored the thin, screechy sound with blazing reeds that Americans knew as the "Ruffatti" = sound. Francesco Ruffatti has changed this DRASTICALLY. As Oldsmobile used to = say in their ads, "This isn't your father's Oldmobile," the same can be applied = to Ruffatti. The sound that Francesco and Piero are doing is not the same = sound that their father was doing 30 years ago. >We have a Ruffati-Rodgers here locally; it's falling apart (Sacred Heart >Church, Coronado Island). I thought that organ was full pipe, not a combo job. The big Kimballs in Denver and Wooster ... I HOPE no one takes it into their heads to change or replace Denver! The Kimball in Denver is amazing. It was on the forefront of organ = building for it's time. If I remember correctly, aren't the Great Principals (or = it may be all of the Principals/Diapasons on the organ) made out of pure tin = and modeled after Silberman scales? Sorry ... the "Coral Gables Sound" isn't even on my RADAR, compared to the above. Coral Ridge I grew up in the San Francisco area, hearing the Skinner at Grace = Cathedral, my own church had a 1906 Murray Harris, I took lessons on the Murray = Harris at Stanford University Memorial Church, as well as hearing some of the other great organs of the area. When I was in Jr. High school, the Fisk was = installed at Stanford, so I was able to play that some, I was able to play and hear = the St. Mary's Cathedral organ. I made my San Francisco debut at Davies Hall = on the Ruffatti there, followed by a program at Grace Cathedral. That's not = to mention the Wurlitzers in the couple of local pizza parlors that I also = used to beg my mother to take me to, also. LOL Those were the diverse "live" instruments that were in my ears. When we would go to visit family in Ft. = Lauderdale, we would go to church at Coral Ridge so I could see Diane hold = forth. Always a lot of fun. I knew that when I "grew up" and got to design an = organ of my own, it was going to be eclectic, drawing some of the best features from = each style. That's what I did at Friendship. It ended up being much more early = American Classic, with touches of Orchestral/Romantic thrown in, but in a BAPTIST church, that's what we needed. I didn't need an organ to be able to play = a lot of French Classic literature properly or the complete Buxheimer Orgelbuch. I = needed beefy foundations with lots of 8' stops, colorful reeds, solo stops = coming out my ears, lots of accompanimental effects. Yeah, there is plenty of mixture work, mutations, even a Mounted Cornet, but we had to take our = useage into consideration first and foremost. It just so happened that what I like = and what I needed jived together. As to builders, only one American builder was really interested. = Ruffatti's interest was higher, plus they are viewing this organ as a challenge to = their style, so I know that we will get more individualized tonal attention. I = will be making a trip to the factory late this year to hear some of the sample pipes. I've said it a million times, and I'm going to say it a million more. If = you haven't heard Ruffatti's new work, you've got to do it. They have come a long way. Mechanically they have refined their work and tonally they have = come light years! Another company who has done the same thing is Wicks. = Similar situations with both companies--elderly fathers at the helm who didn't = want to relenquish control. Now that the children are running the shop, great = things are happening and they are moving ahead in ways that they couldn't before. Don't let 30 year old sterotypes cloud your ears. Look and listen to some = of the new work....it will blow you away. Monty Bennett Friendship Baptist Church Charlotte, NC
(back) Subject: Re: careful, now... From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:17:22 EST >> Coral Ridge PC and the Joy of Music is what drew me to the organ at 14 >> years old..and Im only 24 now. So while some gag...be thankful for a program that > >got to a young organist who listens to Beyonce regularly > > >somone had to replacce VIRGIL.......that is how a lot of us oldsters got here. > >dale in florida I'm going to make a bold statement here....Diane has played to more people = via her TV program than anyone on this list has. She has educated the = general public about the organ. Who cares if she does it while wearing sequins = and gold shoes. She has proved that the organ doesn't have to sound like a = Hammond spinet at a funeral home playing "In the Garden." If she can attract some = young new players, good for her. It's the future of our instrument. Virgil did the same thing back in his day. I've read stories about = teenagers flocking to his church concerts back in the 50's and 60's, well before his = sold out "Heavy Organ" concerts of the 70's. Yes, there are other great concert artists out there today, but how many = of them are attracting young people to the instrument? How many of them have = such a visual presence? Not many. CJ Sambach does his Organ Informance = programs, but how many others really cater to children? 90% of organ concerts cater = to other trained organists. Listening to recordings of Virgil made me realize how interesting the = organ could be when I was a child. Even then I knew the difference between = academic playing and really making music. (not naming names, but you all know how = I am referring to!) I much preferred Virgil's style--it excited me. I also = would also attend Coral Ridge Church when visiting family in Ft. Lauderdale so I = could hear and see Diane in person. That was always an exciting = experience. She made the organ come to life. As an aspiring organist, people like that = give you something to look forward to, hoping that someday you will be able to = play like that, play an instrument of that size, play at a large church. It = made me work and work hard. The hard work paid off. Thank you Virgil and Diane, and to the Hammond, Wicks and Murray Harris = organ companies for the instruments I used to practice the tar out of! Monty Bennett
(back) Subject: Re: careful, now... From: <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:01:45 EST In a message dated 2/13/04 11:45:57 AM Central Standard Time, firstname.lastname@example.org writes: > Me likes this list....me likes me likes! > > Good morning, Y'all! I like this list, too, but I also like the other list, as well. I read = both daily, and when I write, I usually copy to both lists. The purpose of each = list is unique and the purpose statement says it all, although we mere mortals blur the lines of each list way too often. However, it's a wonderful thing = to have both lists. Have a great week. I know we will! Yours, Darryl by the Sea
(back) Subject: Re: Recital Announcements--Cadet Chapel From: <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:06:13 EST In a message dated 2/13/04 2:08:31 PM Central Standard Time,=20 email@example.com writes: > February 22...... Class of 1936 Distinguished Organists' Recital > Ronald Ebrecht, Wesleyan University Organist > (Program of African American organ music and Durufl=E9 first editions) >=20 >=20 Hi, Y'all! I do understand a program of African American organ music, but I don't recal= l=20 seeing the expression, "Durufl=E9 first editions." Will someone help me=20 understand this? Thanks, of course. Yours, Darryl by the Sea
(back) Subject: Re: there's organs, then there's ORGANS From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:57:30 EST In a message dated 2/14/2004 6:00:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, = RMB10@aol.com writes: > Another company who has done the same thing is Wicks. Similar = situations > with both companies--elderly fathers at the helm who didn't want to = relenquish > control THis is soooo true. dale in florida
(back) Subject: RE: careful, now... From: "Glenda" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:15:44 -0600 Dear Christopher, I feel sure you will enjoy the finest organ education with Stephen Roberts. He is a consummate teacher of the first degree, and I'm glad to see what he has done with the organ program up there. But don't let him fool you - he was bred on Mississippi soil - it was probably all those Southern alluvial deposits of antioxidants that made what he is today. Tell him I said hi. Glenda Sutton email@example.com -----Original Message----- From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Howerter After reading this, I had to post concerning the topic. I, too, at a young age watched Diane Bish every chance I got. She is really what got me into the organ! That age I cannot remember too well...alas, yet I am 17! No, just joking...I was 12 at the time. Though, I just recently started lessons with Stephen Roberts and will be attending WCSU (Western Connecticut State University) next year, where he teaches. I must say that both Stephen Roberts and Diane Bish both studied with Mildred Andrews, the renowned Dupre disciple. BTW, his biography is at http://www.wcsu.edu/music/faculty/stephen_roberts.html. He is a fabulous teacher, a walking encyclopedia of organ knowledge, and is VERY dedicated, which is the key ingredient. If you know of any organ students that are looking for a GOOD and CHEAP education (being a state institution), send them his way. He is truly remarkable! One will, in this case, certainly NOT get what they are paying for! They will get much, much more!!!
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4273 - 02/14/04 From: "John Foss" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:31:09 +0000 (GMT) email@example.com wrote "If we go much further into this, I suggest interested parties join Organ Off-topic which was set up for in-depth discussion of ANYTHING that didn't fit the general (and rather elastic) guidelines of this list." You can find it at http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ It is not intended to compete with any other organ group - merely give those members who wish to discuss those topics which may or may not be controversial an opportunity to do so. Topics have covered transport, religion, politics and much else. Members come from Australia, Canada, the UK and the US and maybe elsewhere! John Foss =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : US Politics - Democrat or Republican? Trains, planes and automobiles ___________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save = =A380 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk
(back) Subject: RE: Lou Dobbs last night From: "Michael David" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:48:19 -0600 Bill Bryson's book? -----Original Message----- From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]On Behalf Of noel jones Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 5:24 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Lou Dobbs last night We invite you all to read a copy of the book, MADE IN AMERICA, on the shelves at your library to read about another company that has been featured for many years...through at least two editions that I know of.. --
(back) Subject: Re: Lou Dobbs last night From: "Matthew N. Chegezy" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:09:17 -0500 on 02/13/04 6:23 PM, noel jones at firstname.lastname@example.org wrote: > We invite you all to read a copy of the book, MADE IN AMERICA, on the > shelves at your library to read about another company that has been > featured for many years...through at least two editions that I know of.. The Wal-Mart thing?? MNC
(back) Subject: Comparing Diane to Virgil From: "Charlie Lester" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:16:56 -0800 Granted, Diane and Virgil both have (*) funny hair-dos, love glitter and tacky outfits, and prefer rhinestone slippers for console footwear. But that's about where the comparison stops. Not meaning to elevate one above the other, nor cast aspersions on either of them. They are just very, very different in nearly every aspect of their beings. Certainly very different in their playing styles and training. I will say that "in my day," with the mostly contrived Fox vs Biggs "war," Virgil was the one who won my heart and inspired me the most. I didn't care for all the gaudy trappings (indeed, found them embarrassing) --- I just liked the way he played, and reveled in his freely expressed, uncontained joy for music, and for the organ and Bach in particular. And I derived great [but secret] joy from Virgil's fun-poking of "The Purists" (one of whom was my first teacher). Those who never heard him play a live concert will never know what they have missed. All the extraneous things aside, he truly was one of the greatest organists who ever touched a keyboard. ~ C (*) only using present tense for the sake of avoiding "have/had" etc.
(back) Subject: Re: Comparing Diane to Virgil From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:27:12 EST In a message dated 2/14/2004 11:17:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, firstname.lastname@example.org writes: > Those who never heard him play a live concert will never > know what they have missed. All the extraneous things aside, > he truly was one of the greatest organists who ever touched > a keyboard. > indeed----organists are special type of people----and he was most special. i loved the E Power recordings and how they made me think but i longed to play like Virgil. dale in Florida
(back) Subject: Re: there's organs, then there's Ruffatti... From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:36:45 EST In a message dated 02/14/04 6:00:30 AM, RMB10@aol.com writes: "As to builders, only one American builder was really interested [in our project]." Can you please elaborate? How many American organbuilders were asked to bid? Six? Ten? A dozen? What made ALL but one pass up this amazing opportunity? Sebastian M. Gluck New York City ..
(back) Subject: RE: PipeChat Digest #4273 - 02/14/04 From: "james nerstheimer" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:57:59 -0600 Ahhhh Fisk! There is soon to be one of those close by=97at St. = Chrysostem's in Chicago replacing a large impacted Moller, as Prof. Hoskins describes. = Sure would make me look forward to Sunday morning! At St.Paul's, DeKalb, we have a 37-soon-to-be 39-rank Howell instrument in = the middle of a re-build. The pneumatic swellshade machines have been replaced with those nice Peterson ones with the POWERFUL crank motors. I got to see just HOW powerful the other day when Paul, our baumeister, was running the test cycle and forgot he had parked a wood pipe between a = shade and a case pipe. The thing BENT the trace connecting rod! The thought of = having swellshades that OPEN makes me ever sooo happy! As far as I can tell, our Swell never opened beyond 1/4 of the way due to the trace being about 3" too long, knocking into one of the mitered wood Salicional basses = (oops). He re-racked four ranks of the division so now all the pipes = stand up straight AND with the toes actually in the holes. When all is done, I am convinced we are going to have a phenomenal instrument. Stoplist follows: Great: Bourdon 16' Principal 8' Harmonic Flute 8' Octave 4' Super Octave 2 Quinte 2 2/3' Fourniture IV Trumpet 8' Swell: Chimney Flute 8' Salicional 8' Vox Celeste 8' (TC) Principal 4' Nasard 2 2/3' (TC) Sifflute 2' Larigot 1 1/3' Mixture V Trompette 8' Clarion 4' Oboe 8' Vox Humana 8' Tremolo Sub-Super-U.O. Chior: Gedeckt 8' Vox Angelica II 8' Traverse Flute 4' Blockflute 2' Sesquialtera II Scharff III Clarinet 8' Tuba 8' (10") Tremolo Sub-Super-U.O. Pedal: Untersatz 32' Principal 16' Subbass 16' Bourdon 16' (Gt) Principal 8' Bourdon 8' (Gt) Principal 4' Grave II Acuta II Posaune 32' Posaune 16' Posaune 8' Usual couplers + goodies from Peterson and Syndyne There is little that cannot be played here! Come on out and take her for = a spin(ning Song)! jim O):^) _________________________________________________________________ Plan your next US getaway to one of the super destinations here. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx
(back) Subject: Re: there's organs, then there's Ruffatti... From: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:19:23 -0500 Very interesting week of discussions. We have several American pipe organ builders who are very capable to buil= d an=20 instrument as described, and yet ....... Many on the list commented on the article about "Made in America", and ye= t=20 here is another major instrument to be made in Europe. Do they make better pipe organs ? Is it for the same reasons that knowledgeable congregations also select=20 European digitals in their churches ? No good American could possibly be against the "Made in America" concept,= or=20 could they ? Almost everybody has an automobile, what are we driving, how many=20 Mercedes',Toyota's, BMW's, Honda's, and the list goes on, do you see on t= he=20 road. What do we own ? Who made the televison you own, where was your stereo equipment made ? As you can see, we could go on all day, but it may be pointless. America has come to a crossroads, where do we want it to be ? Gary =20 Quoting TubaMagna@aol.com: > In a message dated 02/14/04 6:00:30 AM, RMB10@aol.com writes: >=20 > "As to builders, only one American builder was really interested [in ou= r=20 > project]." >=20 > Can you please elaborate?=20 > How many American organbuilders were asked to bid?=20 > Six? Ten? A dozen? > What made ALL but one pass up this amazing opportunity? >=20 > Sebastian M. Gluck > New York City >=20 > . >=20 > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:email@example.com > Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:email@example.com >=20 >=20 >=20
(back) Subject: a question From: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:45:13 -0800 This isn't directed at Monty in particular. When I see these HUGE new organ projects, I always wonder why one of the monumental endangered American organs wasn't considered. I suppose that wasn't possible with the Mormon Assembly Hall project, because it really DID break new ground in voicing, scaling, mixture composition, etc. ... an organ for an acoustically-dead room (by design) that seats 21,000 (!) people WOULD have to be one-of-a-kind. Surely something like "Mr. Farnum's Masterpiece" (the enormous Casavant in Boston) would fulfill just about anybody's requirements for a romantic-leaning eclectic organ. While the cost of moving and restoring it might come close to that of a new organ of the same size, the fact remains that some of these old organs contain materials of a quality that simply isn't available today, not to mention superbly-voiced and constructed pipes. There has been a discussion just recently about the difficuly of obtaining hard zinc for basses ... that's just one example. I am curious, though, about Monty's comments concerning what he needs an organ to DO ... if an organ to play organ literature isn't needed, then why such a huge stop-list? I'm assuming a Baptist church of that size would have an orchestra that would do most of the choral accompanying. Is there something about Baptist service-playing that I've missed over the years? (grin) Cheers, Bud
(back) Subject: Worship Style From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:36:46 -0600 Bud, I greatly appreciate your overview of the two styles of worship, = though I happen to come down on the preaching side, due to my own background and experience. And we never wonder exactly where you stand! Personally, I think the church is big enough to have some "seeker" congregations and some ultra high church and some holy roller Pentecostal and some fundamentalist shoutin' Baptist and everything in between. I always liked the Introduction in C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity" where = he talked of Christendom as one huge hall with separate rooms for the various denominations. We come into the hall, but we must ultimately "live" in = one of the rooms, and we choose\find/be led to (select your own verb!) one = that is compatible for us, without denying or badmouthing those who end up in other rooms. Dennis Steckley & A Six-Pack of Cats
(back) Subject: Re: Lou Dobbs last night From: "noel jones" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:17:35 -0500 Watch It Made in the U.S.A: A Visitor's Guide to the Companies That Make Your Favorite Products by Karen Axelrod and Bruce Brumberg -- noel jones, aago email@example.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ moderator, rodgers organ users group frog music press www.frogmusic.com 423 887-7594 athens, tn, usa
(back) Subject: Stephen Roberts (was Re: careful, now...) From: "Mike Gettelman" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:10:24 -0500 Hello Christopher, I am happy to hear you will be studying with Stephen Roberts, and am equally happy to hear someone give Stephen his due for being a genuinely nice person who is genuinely interested in the organ community as a whole, and not just the WCSU campus. I am but a simple organ enthusiast and patron who cannot even play the organ, and actually am an just an auto mechanic by trade, but I have regularly heard from Stephen when I post to the list, and he has often given me kindly nudges in the right direction as I struggle to educate myself about the instrument, the literature, and about getting on with a community of organ folks who are an eccentric, highly opinionated, and often difficult group of people to deal with. I can't say enough about Stephen's wonderful reports about his travels, and his constant updates about organ activities and students at WCSU. If you show sincere interest in the organ, Stephen will quickly make you a part of his extended family. I think he has a soft spot in his heart for the underdog like me who yearns to be a part of the organ scene and community, but finds himself too late in life to become practically involved. So, good luck with your new adventure Christopher. I think you have chosen the right person to help you along your way. Please keep in touch and let us know how it's going on a regular basis. Cheers Mike Gettelman Christopher Howerter wrote: > Dear List, After reading this, I had to post > concerning the topic. I, too, at a young age watched > Diane Bish every chance I got. She is really what > got me into the organ! That age I cannot remember > too well...alas, yet I am 17! No, just joking...I > was 12 at the time. Though, I just recently started > lessons with Stephen Roberts and will be attending > WCSU (Western Connecticut State University) next > year, where he teaches. I must say that both Stephen > Roberts and Diane Bish both studied with Mildred > Andrews, the renowned Dupre disciple. BTW, his > biography is at > http://www.wcsu.edu/music/faculty/stephen_roberts.html. > He is a fabulous teacher, a walking encyclopedia of > organ knowledge, and is VERY dedicated, which is the > key ingredient. If you know of any organ students > that are looking for a GOOD and CHEAP education > (being a state institution), send them his way. He > is truly remarkable! One will, in this case, > certainly NOT get what they are paying for! They > will get much, much more!!! Sincerely,Christopher J. > Howerter, SPCwho is apologizing for his extensive use > of exclamations and double > negatives!------------------