PipeChat Digest #4277 - Sunday, February 15, 2004
 
BIlhorn Builders
  by "Patricia/Thomas Gregory" <tgregory@speeddial.net>
RE: Baptist Service Playing
  by "Mark Hopper" <mlhopper@msn.com>
Re: Organbuilder Bilhorn
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Organbuilder Bilhorn
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: careful, now...
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
RE: Baptist Service Playing
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: hyfrydol
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: hyfrydol
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Under-winding
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
Re: Under-winding
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Under-winding
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Baptist Service Playing
  by "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com>
Re: Under-winding
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
RE: Stephen Roberts (was Re: careful, now...)
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
Re: Baptist Service Playing
  by <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com>
Re: careful, now...
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
RE: Spellman's Holtkamp
  by "james nerstheimer" <enigma1685@hotmail.com>
 

(back) Subject: BIlhorn Builders From: "Patricia/Thomas Gregory" <tgregory@speeddial.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 06:24:44 -0600   Robert Gellerman gives the following information in his Reed Organ Atlas:   The Bilhorn Brothers Organ Co; founded 1855 in Chicago. making folding = reed organs and running a music publishing business. They manufactured instruments for Sears & Roebuck in 1902. Reeds and reed pans were = purchased through Hinners Organ Co., Pekin IL. In business until the early 1940's. These instruments could be bought in different sizes...3 1/2 octave single reed, double reed 3 1/2 octave (8" & 4') and 4 octave models.   A few years ago I restored a Bilhorn . Quality was above average. The instruments fold into a compact box for moving. These organs were often used for traveling preachers.   Another company making folding reed organs was Estey. I have restored one of these instruments also. Both were equal in quality, although the Estey case seemed more sturdy.   Both the Bilhorn & Estey turn up frequently on eBay, usually selling = between $100 - $400.   Sincerely,   Tom Gregory -- Thomas and Patricia Gregory 716 West College Avenue Waukesha WI USA 53186-4569    
(back) Subject: RE: Baptist Service Playing From: "Mark Hopper" <mlhopper@msn.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:13:51 -0500   My Baptist Church is quite certainly the least Baptist show in town. From our Granite exterior, to our fine organ and choral programs, to our liturgical worship, to our red doors, to our crucifer and acolytes. I = feel so blessed to do what I believe in doing and still be a Baptist!   [We even impose ashes!]   Peace, Mark   Mark L. Hopper Associate Minister of Music and Organist The First Baptist Church 205 West Winder Street PO Box 75 Henderson, NC 27536 Church-(252) 438-3172 Home-(252) 492-6774 Fax-(252) 438-3710 markhopper@ncol.net    
(back) Subject: Re: Organbuilder Bilhorn From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:48:42 -0500   On 2/14/04 8:53 PM, "RMaryman@aol.com" <RMaryman@aol.com> wrote:   >> there is no entry for that name in the Fox book...sorry >> =20 >> Rick in VA   Thanks for checking, Rick. As it happens, Tom Gregory found it in another source.   =B3Robert Gellerman gives the following information in his Reed Organ Atlas=B2 etc.   Which took care of everything.   Alan      
(back) Subject: Re: Organbuilder Bilhorn From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:01:08 -0500   On 2/14/04 11:51 PM, "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> = wrote:   > I seem to recall running into the name before. I'd have to get out my > Gellerman's Reed Organ Atlas to be sure, but I'm sure they were parlor > organs. > Stop, Arp! Thanks loads, but Tom Gregory already got out that book and = sent me the whole quote. But thanks awfully!   They were best known for folding organs carted about the countryside by itinerant preachers. One such was Walter S. Martin, composer of "Be not dismayed . . . God will take care of you." (1904).   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: careful, now... From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 06:46:29 -0800   oh... I was just being facetious about Handel....   I guess I am an anomaly since I love both service styles in my church and support them equally. Play the organ/jam with the band... it makes no difference to me - it's all worship, and I do my best to do it all to = God's glory   My main concern was (and is) not that folks should have to like all styles of worship, just that judging someone else's offering of praise as inferior is = probably not the best idea. If a person wants to feel that a certain style is inferior for THEM, = that's fine with me... they are entitled to that conviction, and I don't think they should be forced = to worship in a way that holds no meaning for them.   I _KNOW_ there are "contemporary" worship teams whose focus is in the = wrong place, whose reasons for being there are less than pure... I've had a few of = those types on my team before, and they don't last long with me if I can help it. I also = know we as a team have no problem ENJOYING what we do, but as a team we start each service (and rehearsal!) with a prayer and the desire that what we do be our offering of prasie to God, and that people would not focus on us, but on him.   On the other hand, I've known of plenty prideful people in worship = ministry, be it in a worship band or behind a 3 or 4-decker organ leading an awesome choral service. THAT issue has nothing to do with style - it's a result of the Fall <grin>   On another note, I went to a choral evensong a few weeks ago, and was thrilled to see so much rich truth in the liturgy...   PROBLEM: Many of the folks who experience this kind of liturgy each week have done it so long that way that they have ceased to meditate on the meaning of what they are SAYING. Why do I say this? Because the TRUTH is in them words, and if folks heed the TRUTH, their lives will be CHANGED. The fault lies with more than the people - I think the clergy need to also remind, encourage and explain the rich truths if they want people to know the importance of engaging their hearts and minds. THAT is something that needs to be done in ALL types of worship. Humans easily get into a routine and let their minds disengage from something.... we need to be REMINDED!   Now, I thank David and Tim for their forbearance, but I agree with Bud = that it's probably time to put this one to rest for now.....   peace,   -Jonathan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:13 PM Subject: Re: careful, now...     > On 2/13/04 7:37 PM, "giwro@adelphia.net" <giwro@adelphia.net> wrote: > > > just listen to a Handel anthem and tell me how many times THOSE words are > > repeated <giggle> > > Jonathan: > > I'm with you (though I like what I know of Marva Dawn, too); and you're > certainly right about Handel. I think Haydn is even worse. But THOSE > compositions are not even remotely intended for liturgical use ("worship"); > they're just concert pieces. It DOES make a major difference. > > Alan > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >    
(back) Subject: RE: Baptist Service Playing From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:42:55 -0600   Wow! Mark, I am truly impressed. Next time I visit NC I gotta see this.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com   (who just Friday attended a Southern Baptist country church funeral of her parents' pastor, the one who prayed at her dad's funeral and thanked God for air conditioning. However, I must tell you that they broke the general rule I related some time back - they sang TWO congregational hymns - "When we all get to heaven" and "It is well with my soul", ALL the verses! Wonders never cease.)     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hopper     My Baptist Church is quite certainly the least Baptist show in town. From our Granite exterior, to our fine organ and choral programs, to our liturgical worship, to our red doors, to our crucifer and acolytes. I feel so blessed to do what I believe in doing and still be a Baptist!   [We even impose ashes!]          
(back) Subject: Re: hyfrydol From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:31:02 -0600   Hello, Amy:   Hyfrydol is a Welch name, and they still sing it with enthusiasm, ....or so I am told by one who loved to visit in Wales.   The accompanying story is that a Welchman spoke to my acquaintance, and said, "You like the tune, do you? Then, you might as well learn to pronounce its name properly. It's called "HUFF'-ruh-doll."   After anglicizing its pronunciation most of my life, I smiled at the story, ...and corrected by pronunciation thereafter.   HUFF'-ruh-doll, indeed!     ..      
(back) Subject: Re: hyfrydol From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:33:10 -0600   Hello, Amy, ...again: My wife and I were married a bit over 50 years ago, and we had our singer render "Love Divine, all Loves Excelling," set to Hyfrydol. Lovely, indeed, it was. F. Richard Burt ..    
(back) Subject: Under-winding From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:02:14 -0600   I have a question about wind pressure. I was practicing yesterday and was playing something that was all-the-stops-pulled, and had a huge chord with the low C and G pedals playing also, and noticed that the tone dropped a little. I let up on the pedals while holding the chord and instantly the sound came back. It was kind of subtle, but definitely noticeable. I was wondering if anyone felt this was something to be seriously concerned = about, or if it's one of those "just don't do that" things. (Doctor, my arms = hurts when I do this. Then don't do that.)   We have a 16' full length principal in the pedal, and I had that drawn (along with all the others.) I took that off and tried again, and didn't get that drop in pressure. So, I feel that's the culprit. Again, I just noticed this for the first time yesterday, and I've been at this church = for almost 3 years.   BUT, my question to the builders is shouldn't I (in theory) be able to = play every available note (every finger, thumb, and both feet) at full organ = and NOT lose pressure?   Thanks! Jeff    
(back) Subject: Re: Under-winding From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:20:12 -0600     Jeff White wrote:   >BUT, my question to the builders is shouldn't I (in theory) be able to = play >every available note (every finger, thumb, and both feet) at full organ = and >NOT lose pressure? > > > Yes, you should. If you get a sag in pressure in big chords on on full organ, something about the winding system (size of blower, size of windlines, size of reservoir or size of curtain valve, etc.) is inadequate. In order, however, to get the maximum volume out of the instrument, rather than taking off the 16' Principal, you might try taking off some of the manual or pedal flutes and strings (if you were using these; you may not have been) and limiting yourself to the Principals and Reeds. Assuming that the winding system does not still sag under these circumstances, this will tend to give you a bigger sound than simply omitting the 16' Principal. Often the flutes and strings don't contribute a lot to full organ, and on many organs you will hardly notice the difference. If the wind still sags without the flutes and strings, the winding system is clearly very inadequate indeed.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: Under-winding From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:13:37 -0800   That was the FIRST thing Bach used to do when he was testing a new organ. Organ-builders were TERRIFIED of him.   If there's a separate Pedal reservoir, I'd have the tech check to see if additional weights can be added to bring the Pedal pressure up a little.   If there ISN'T one, perhaps one needs to be added.   They had to go back and do that to the Flentrop at Oberlin ... when both the Pedal and Hoofdwerk 16' Praestants were drawn, there wasn't enough = wind.   It COULD be that the blower's too small, but I'd tend to doubt that, since your organ was prepared for a third manual with ... what was it? a chamade and a cornet? But you never can tell (grin) ... have the tech check the static pressure while you hold that chord with everything drawn. If the blower's putting out enough wind, then the problem is elsewhere.   Raising the Pedal pressure is a mite tricky ... I don't know how much you can do it without the Pedal reeds flipping to the octave.   Cheers,   Bud   Jeff White wrote:   > I have a question about wind pressure. I was practicing yesterday and = was > playing something that was all-the-stops-pulled, and had a huge chord = with > the low C and G pedals playing also, and noticed that the tone dropped a > little. I let up on the pedals while holding the chord and instantly = the > sound came back. It was kind of subtle, but definitely noticeable. I = was > wondering if anyone felt this was something to be seriously concerned = about, > or if it's one of those "just don't do that" things. (Doctor, my arms = hurts > when I do this. Then don't do that.) > > We have a 16' full length principal in the pedal, and I had that drawn > (along with all the others.) I took that off and tried again, and = didn't > get that drop in pressure. So, I feel that's the culprit. Again, I = just > noticed this for the first time yesterday, and I've been at this church = for > almost 3 years. > > BUT, my question to the builders is shouldn't I (in theory) be able to = play > every available note (every finger, thumb, and both feet) at full organ = and > NOT lose pressure? > > Thanks! > Jeff > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Baptist Service Playing From: "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:15:19 -0600   There are Baptist churches that are not affiliated with the Southern = Baptist Convention. While the SBC is by far the most prevalent, there are Baptist Churches affiliated with the American Baptist Convention, the Cooperative Baptist, and the Alliance of Baptists. Usually, churches affiliated with the Cooperative Baptists are moderate and have traditional services; those affiliated with the Alliance of Baptists are liberal in theology and very formal in their style of worship.   Sand Lawn Northminster Church (an Alliance of Baptist church) Monroe, LA   PS ... we also impose ashes!    
(back) Subject: Re: Under-winding From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:15:29 -0600   I suggest you ask your organ technician to check the wind system. It = could be a simple maladjustment of the curtain valve, or other wind regulating valves in the organ. Roy Redman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 12:02 PM Subject: Under-winding     > I have a question about wind pressure. I was practicing yesterday and = was > playing something that was all-the-stops-pulled, and had a huge chord = with > the low C and G pedals playing also, and noticed that the tone dropped a > little. I let up on the pedals while holding the chord and instantly = the > sound came back. It was kind of subtle, but definitely noticeable. I = was > wondering if anyone felt this was something to be seriously concerned about, > or if it's one of those "just don't do that" things. (Doctor, my arms hurts > when I do this. Then don't do that.) > > We have a 16' full length principal in the pedal, and I had that drawn > (along with all the others.) I took that off and tried again, and = didn't > get that drop in pressure. So, I feel that's the culprit. Again, I = just > noticed this for the first time yesterday, and I've been at this church for > almost 3 years. > > BUT, my question to the builders is shouldn't I (in theory) be able to play > every available note (every finger, thumb, and both feet) at full organ and > NOT lose pressure? > > Thanks! > Jeff > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: RE: Stephen Roberts (was Re: careful, now...) From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:04:49 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Dear List, I can only sum myself to the kind remarks about Stephen Roberts (BTW he is not in Pipechat). When I joined my first PO-List two years ago he was the first (and for a time the only) one in show genuine interest, friendship = and encouragement to me up to this day. This is very, very seldom in our days. Please don't misunderstand me: I don't blame if people or Institutions show due care when they face an unknown guy who lives so far away and has backgrounds which are considered from "uncertain" to "unacceptable" in the so-called "Developed = Hemisphere". But Stephen has several south american students and knows better than most people the enormous social, technologic and economic gaps that exist = between "Latin" and "Northern" America. Stephen is a fine, honest and candid man. From my impression and from what I was told he must be a great organ pedagogue. I was about to travel to Argentina and join him in Buenos Aires in January, but this would have been too expensive for me having in mind that I plan several trips this year. But I have the firm decision to meet him at the oncoming OHS convention in Buffalo.   Organs, Organists & Car Mechanics: I had to grin about this thread. Mike, Tim and others are not the only = ones! Pablo Castellanos' dream was to become a Car Race Champ. Unfortunatedly = for the Formula I world and fortunatedly for us his father disencouraged this idea, but Pablo still is an automotive enthusiast. I am a tinkerer since I was a boy and care for my SUV as far as I can, leaving only too big or specialized jobs for the mechanic. If I had enough space and money I would collect American Classics from the 'golden = fifties'. Unfortunatedly I had to sell my Pontiac '55 in Anno Domini 2000... no = money to keep it anymore!- such is life, but it's said that for every dream that shatters another one comes true.   Back to topic: Not that I encourage acceptance of bloody amateurs in the Organ Industry, but outside their artistic disposition, organ builders and = t echs *must* be inventive tinkerers, even in our days were almost every = organ part can be outsourced. BTW... Who was the organ builder who asked on job interviews if the Candidate ever had taken apart a car- rather than asking for academia or Background-training history?- was it Charles Fisk?   Cheers Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.    
(back) Subject: Re: Baptist Service Playing From: <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:04:12 EST   Hey, Beau.   Do you have Ron Boud's e-mail address? I like him a lot and used him a = time or two at the Explosion. I don't know him as an organist, but as a = personality and pianist he's tops.   Yours,   Darryl    
(back) Subject: Re: careful, now... From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:17:24 -0500   On 2/15/04 9:46 AM, "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> wrote:   > I was just being facetious about Handel....   OK. But I wasn't.   (Not that it's of any importance, but your post [all of it] stands up VERY well under MY theological inspection process. All very well said.)   Alan    
(back) Subject: RE: Spellman's Holtkamp From: "james nerstheimer" <enigma1685@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:35:08 -0600   I had a girlfriend many years ago who graduated from that noble = institution. Travelled with her one summer down there and got a tour of the campus = and Sisters Chapel and, of course got to take the instrument for a spin. Have =   they yet taken care of the "acoustical" tile covering that big = barrel-vault cieling? A room that nice doesn't deserve to be beset by slap-echo! The big Wicks at Morehouse had not yet been built at that time, so I didn't = get to see it.   jim   O):^)   _________________________________________________________________ Create your own personal Web page with the info you use most, at My MSN. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/