PipeChat Digest #4281 - Monday, February 16, 2004
 
Re: MY requirements...curch jobs.
  by <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com>
Concert Review: Dave Wickerham at Zion (cross posted)(long)
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
RE: hyfrydol
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: 32' short resonator reeds
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Recording sought
  by <Miltronix@comcast.net>
Re: 32' short resonator reeds
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
32' Cornets
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Re: careful, now...(slightly off topic)
  by "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net>
Re: 32' Cornets
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: 32' Cornets
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Hyfrydol
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
hyfrydol and other language intricacies
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: Baptist Churches that aren't "Baptist"
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: careful, now...(slightly off topic)
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: MY requirements...curch jobs. From: <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 07:55:48 EST   Good morning, Desiree:   Is this new job a full- or part-time job? In how we/I answer the question, = it would be helpful to know the amount of hours you are expected to be "on = the job" if it's a part-time job. If it's full-time, then it will be a = different set of answers.   After 25 years of being out of public school music teaching, I've returned = to the classroom and love it. I absolutely love going to school every day! = I'm also serving as organist/director an ELCA congregation. I've never worked = in a liturgical church before (on a regular basis, that is) and am enjoying it, = as well. So . . . life in Nashville is good for us! The only unfortunate part = is that my pastor wife serves a different congregation. But . . . that's life = in our house now.   Yours,   Darryl by the Sea Nashville, TN    
(back) Subject: Concert Review: Dave Wickerham at Zion (cross posted)(long) From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:59:40 -0600   Lists,   Normally I avoid cross posting, but in view of the recent discussions on the ending of the NU organ degree program, the concern for future of other =   organ programs and the resultant opinions that the fault lies within the organ community for not properly promoting their instrument in order generate interest with the public, I thought this concert would be of general interest.   Dave Wickerham is primarily known in the theatre organ community for his many theatre organ concerts and years of performing in pizza organ venues. =   He probably should be better known in the classical organ circles as he is =   an accomplished artist and plays regularly as a church musician. The day = of the concert he played the morning services at the church, and this generated sufficient interest to fill the church with members of the congregation as well as folks who know Dave and never miss an opportunity to hear him play. This concert cannot be classified as either a classical or theatre organ program. His selections ran the gamut of organ music, and =   Dave's ability to segue between selections gave us parts of the "Gothic Suite" blending into other numbers during the program. It was an exciting program with the organ used to its' fullest capacity. This program would not have worked on many church instruments but lent itself well to the orchestral Welte organ in Christ Community Church.   At this point I would provide some background on Christ Community Church. The City of Zion was designed by the evangelist Rev. Dowie at the turn of the century and its' centerpiece was the Zion Tabernacle. Most of the streets in Zion carry biblical names and because of its' religious origins =   the city has raised controversy. In recent history it was sued by the resident Illinois atheist and forced to remove religious symbols from the city seal and official documents. The Christ Community Church (formerly known as the Christian Catholic Church has evolved from that history and the Zion Tabernacle and sits as a centerpiece of the city Dowie designed. It is also home to the Zion Musical Conservatory. The organ is a Welte-Mignon organ originally installed in a Roman Catholic Church in Chicago, and after that church was closed was relocated to the Christ Community Church by Fabry Organs of Fox Lake.   Dave's program started with the Strauss "Chit Chat Polka" followed by Joplin's "Chrysanthemum Rag". The was followed by variations on "Amazing Grace" opening with soft flutes and eventually segueing into a Welte version of Bag Pipes complete with realistic drone. Opening with the beginning of Bach Toccata and Fugue in D min Dave segued in selections = from LLoyd Webber's "Phantom of the Opera". This was followed by a very unusual =   version of the Petula Clark pop tune "Downtown" followed by the "Rondo in G" segued in the "Irish Washerwoman" to complete the first half of the = program'   The program was promoted as "You Name it..he can play it" and during the intermission the ushers passed collection plates to collect paper which included play requests from the audience. The second half of the was devoted to playing audience requests starting with Purcell's "Trumpet Voluntary in D" followed by some TV themes such as the theme from "Gilligans Island". Then it was "Off to see the Wizard" and "Over the Rainbow", "The Pink Panther", "Baby Elephant Walk"...shifting gears then = to some Rossini with operatic selections and the "William Tell"...Dave = started this selection with request to shout "Hi-Ho Silver" at the appropriate...after a rather anemic HI-HO Dave started it again so the audience could get it right. Shifting gears again to the "Stars Wars = Themes followed by a Gershwin medley beginning with "Rhapsody in Blue", :I've got =   Rhythm", 'Love is Here to Stay" segueing to some more "Rhapsody in Blue" followed by "Strike up the Band". No request program would be complete if someone didn't ask for the "Dr. Zhivago Theme" and this was followed by "Ebb Tide", "Theme from the apartment" and "Here's that Rainy Day" The program finished with variations on requested hymns :How Great Thou Art", Joyful, Joyful we Adore Thee" and a "Mighty Fortress" then segueing into Widor's Toccata and then segueing back into the final bars of one of the hymns to close the show. The audience rose for an enthusiastic standing ovation with resultant in Dave's encoring with "Stars and Stripes for = Ever"   I sure some of our purists would be aghast at such a program in this = venue. The senior pastor as part of his welcoming comments included a prayer = which thanked God for the gift of music. AMEN.   My personal believe is that a program should always be planned to best demonstrate a particular organ's capabilities. I recent posted a concert program for an OHS program commemorating the 100th anniversary of a one manual tracker organ. There was criticism of the program as not being a program that the public would like. That may be true, but the organist I believe selected a program best suited to that organ and that occasion. This program of Dave's also best suited this organ and this occasion.   respectfully submitted,   Jon C. Habermaas Lindenhurst, Ill.    
(back) Subject: RE: hyfrydol From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:01:19 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   I like Wales....don't get me wrong, but what sort of people invent totally unpronouncable words?   Hyfrydol is straightforward, and the only decent organs in Wales are in prounouncable places such as St.Davids (pronounced St Davids), LLandaff (pronounced Thlandath), Bangor (pronounced Bangor) and Cardiff (pronounced Cardiff).   So, even though I only live about 80 miles from this charming little country, with its singing postmen, singing bakers, singing hairdressers and singing everybody....God knows they sing.....I cannot pronounce anything. I cannot even find my way around the place and no one helps you.   Only a daft Druid could come up with a village name such as:-   Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllandysiliogogogoch   58 letters in all!   It is, of course, utterly unpronouncable, and even the daft Druids refer to it as LLanfair p.g. (pronounced Thlanfair pg)   Still, for anyone who can overcome the obstacles of the language, Wales is a wonderful little place with the most gorgeous scenery in the UK.   Oh yes, finally! If you get a Welshman in an arm lock and threaten to kill him, you suddenly find that the Welsh DO speak English.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK         --- Will Light <will.light@btinternet.com> wrote: > A pleasure Richard! The nice thing about Welsh > pronunciation is that it is > always the same.   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html  
(back) Subject: Re: 32' short resonator reeds From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:13:40 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Does it matter if a reed is horizontal or not, I wonder?   Surely, if a reed is mitred and the thing turned towards the front, isn't the effect much the same?   I would suggest that the horizontal reeds Ron refers to are those voiced with French Shallots, relatively thin reeds and with exponential resonators.   Exponnetial resonators were used to very good effect by Wurlitzer, in the worst possible acoustics.   Other than a bit more "edge tone", I can't imagine that a Willis 32ft Ophicleide would be offensive if it were positioned horizontally.   Incidentally, the BIG Tuba Mirabilus at Yorks Minster, fires up on 25"wg and is horizontal. It is also a mess, with barely two notes alike.....but it has real character. It never fails to raise a smile; trampling all over the rest of the organ, with sounds which vary between fog horn, car horn, tuba, trumpet,cornopean and amplified oboe!   I often wonder just WHY it has never been revoiced, but somehow, I think we like the silly thing just the way it is.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       --- RonSeverin@aol.com wrote: > Bud is right! > > En Chamade reeds should be reserved for very large > and complete > organs, in big Cathedralesque spaces with live > acoustics.   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html  
(back) Subject: Recording sought From: <Miltronix@comcast.net> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:15:15 +0000   Good morning Listers.   Does anyone have a copy of the multi-LP-record-set "Thirteen Centuries Of = Christian Choral Art" by the Peloquin Chorale that they would sell to me? = My copy vanished between Philly and here. Searches with record outlets, = flea markets, etc. have been in vain.   To keep this on topic, the organist was Henry Hokans, and the organ was an = Allen TC-4 :-)   Thanks for any leads. Bill Miller, Norfolk VA  
(back) Subject: Re: 32' short resonator reeds From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:19:41 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   With Bud I agree, except for one thing....the 32ft Cornet.   Our Mr Compton produced wonderful examples, often in inferior acoustics, but I'm not going to re-kindle THAT particular chestnut again.   It's not so long since we mentioned it, but there is an absurd 32ft Pedal Reed at Worksop Priory, here in the UK, which I believe is quarter length. A better effect could have been obtained with a wooden rule and a desk!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK         --- quilisma@cox.net wrote: > Fractional length 32' reeds are useless as pedal > stops ...   > EVEN LESS desirable: a 32' reed cornet - these > seldom work, unless ALL > the ranks are independent, so they can be tuned > true, and the building > has SUPERB acoustics. >     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html  
(back) Subject: 32' Cornets From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:34:29 -0800   I'm curious, though, Colin ... is it an INDEPENDENT 32' Cornet, or are the pitches borrowed from all over the organ (and from unison ranks) as is normally the case in the U.S.?   Cheers,   Bud   Colin Mitchell wrote:   > Hello, > > With Bud I agree, except for one thing....the 32ft > Cornet. > > Our Mr Compton produced wonderful examples, often in > inferior acoustics, but I'm not going to re-kindle > THAT particular chestnut again. > > It's not so long since we mentioned it, but there is > an absurd 32ft Pedal Reed at Worksop Priory, here in > the UK, which I believe is quarter length. A better > effect could have been obtained with a wooden rule and > a desk! > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchell UK > > > > > --- quilisma@cox.net wrote: > >>Fractional length 32' reeds are useless as pedal >>stops ... > > >>EVEN LESS desirable: a 32' reed cornet - these >>seldom work, unless ALL >>the ranks are independent, so they can be tuned >>true, and the building >>has SUPERB acoustics. >> > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Subject: Re: Re: careful, now...(slightly off topic) From: "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 08:33:00 -0600   I have been thinking about the lyrics to the song Jonathan posted "it's = all about you, Jesus" (I didn't see a title). Although I am not a fan of contemporary music IN THE CHURCH (otherwise is fine) I don't want to = reject it out of personal preference. I have struggled for some time now with = the question of what is appropriate for worship. With regards to the lyrics. Yes it is obviously Christ centered. But it doesn't say a lot about = Christ and what He has done for us. Yes, we long to bring something of worth but really we can bring nothing to God that He does not already have. I don't know how we can "bless Your heart". It is God that blesses us. God "requires" nothing from us except that we trust in Him. The purpose of worship is more what we receive form God than what we can do for Him. = The hymns of the church that have stood the test of time are all about what Christ has done for us, or are direct quotes from scripture intended to build faith in us, as well as praising Christ for what He has done for us. Not that Christ needs us to praise Him but because it is a natural = response. OK, I'm done, now blast away. Amy    
(back) Subject: Re: 32' Cornets From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:42:02 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   I believe the 32ft Cornets were indeed borrowed, but John Compton was the absolute master of the "smoke and mirrors" approach to organ building.   His background included a spell in the forces during WWII, when he was stationed in Italy. For reasons best known to himself, he carried out extensive tonal experiments on old Italian organs he came across, and thus learned how to produce synthetic tones.   I don't think history records just what damage he did to these organs, but it does record the brilliance of his mind and his extraordinary ear.   I think the secret of his success in getting a cathedral organ from about 30-40 ranks of pipes, was the fact that his instruments were really designed as huge Mixtures, where nothing ever sounded out of place in the ensemble. Of course, the Swell organs were always independent, and any borrowing in that department was usually restricted to reeds and/or the upperwork.   For those who may wish to look into Compton further, I would suggest a browse into the NPOR site (National Pipe Organ Register) here in the UK.   Once there, search for Wakefield, and then scroll down until you find the 5-manual cathedral organ by Compton. It is a very effective instrument, I can assure you, but doesn't actually contain THAT many pipes in relation to the massive console which controls it.   Regards,   Colinn Mitchell UK         --- quilisma@cox.net wrote: > I'm curious, though, Colin ... is it an INDEPENDENT > 32' Cornet, or are > the pitches borrowed from all over the organ (and > from unison ranks) as > is normally the case in the U.S.?     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html  
(back) Subject: Re: 32' Cornets From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:57:41 -0800 (PST)       > Hello, > > I've found the following for you, which has come > from > the archives of Piporg-L, and which I once explored > on > this very subject. It makes interesting reading:- > > > -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o > > Written By Stephen Bicknell:- > > (Compton) had, from 1896 onwards, explored > thoroughly > the use of remote > off-unison harmonics to generate synthetic tones or > to > give the illusion of > bass pipes from what was, in effect, a Cornet; the > harmonics used now > included not just the tierce and septi=3DE8me, but the > 9th, 11th and 13th > partials. An instrument at the Compton factory > contained, by 1932, > diapasons at the following pitches: 6 2/5', 4 4/7', > 3 > 5/9', 2 10/11', 2 > 6/13', and 2 2/15'. Compton habitually covered up > the true contents of > his Mixture stops. It was daring enough to present > the customer, so soon > after the Hope-Jones period, with multi-rank stops > labelled Plein Jeu VIII, > Acuta III or Grand Cornet de Bombardes XII-XIV > (Downside Abbey 1931); > patrons might have been still more surprised to > learn > that, during the site > finishing, additional derived ranks were added to > the > chorus by altering > the wiring in the electric switch stack. Some of > the > Compton mixtures had, > in fact, yet more ranks than were advertised at the > console. > > --------------- > > During WW2 Compton got stuck in Italy for a while. > Using an old Italian > organ as a test-bed (eeeech! - the vandal!) he > rearranged the ripieno to > provide the character of a tutti with reeds from an > organ that was in fact > all flues. Nothing quite so hairy ever appeared in > his production > instruments, but various Cornet and Harmonics stops > explored some of the > bizarre off-unison pitches with great success. The > mutations were > independent ranks, even if the unisons might be > derived. Again Compton > knew that such ranks have to be vast-scale > dull-voiced > tubs if the effect > is to work. > > The Germans went through all this again in some of > the > experimental > modernist organs of the 1960s and 70s - the > application of neo-classical > dogma has meant that most of these are more > intruiging > than beautiful or > useful. > > Mutations are still poorly understood in the > Anglo-American organ world. > The lack of decent Cornets is one of the few major > failings of the American > Classic school. Rule 1: they have to be huge in > scale. There are no other > rules. However, I suspect that narrow mouths > destroy > the effect. Small > mouths keep the pipe reasonably soft, especially if > you are silly enough to > believe that small tip holes are decadent. But with > a > 1/5 or worse still > 1/6 mouth the sound is reduced to a pathetically > plaintive oooooo or > uuuuuu. For mutations to work well you need a > rather > broad but subdued > uuuhhhhhhhh sound! Don't imagine that mutations are > there in place of the > 32 or 64, nor that they are there to provide > synthetic > colour. The bass > tones they generate have a peculiar grandeur that > can > be acheived in no > other way; the colour they can provide is a > legitimate > organ effect in its > own right and should not be regarded as an imitative > substitute for other > tonalities. The Moller stop quoted above looks > about > 15 notes too small to > me!!!!! > > -o-o-o-o-o-o-oo-o-o-o > > > Isn't this FASCINATING? > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchell UK > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing > online. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html >     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html  
(back) Subject: Hyfrydol From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:04:55 -0600   Re: Hyfrydol "V" and "F" are very close in pronunciation.......it's just a matter of emphasis. Either way it's better than High-Fry-Doll! ;>)   Dennis Steckley & A Six-Pack of Cats    
(back) Subject: hyfrydol and other language intricacies From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:00:21 -0600   Hello, Collin:   We Americans have enjoyed about 250 years of Anglicizing almost all the words in the world according to our ancestors from whom we chose to separate in 1776. So, as we can now turn on the TV and watch the BBC nightly news and pick up the German contributions to the BBC nightly news, we are discovering that some other people who have language identities of their own with curious little twists of the syllables that often actually mean something among the natives who speak that way.   For instance, we have read in the Bible texts of the Rose of Sharon (SHARE-un) until the Israeli people elected a Prime Minister who pronounces it (shah-RON).   As for inventing a language that no one can pronouce the sylables, I remember listening to people all around me in Amsterdam Schipphol Airport speak with gutteral inflections that I to this day cannot imitate.   AND, ...to make matters worse, we have some "bad blood" type language distortions among us. When our Texas ancestors rose up in defiance of the Mexicans to once again fight for independance in 1836, we deliberately Anglicized the entire official language of Mexico (Spanish) to declare that we defeated the Mexicans in a battle at San (like sand with out the d consonant) Jacinto (Juh-SENT-uh). AND we continued to Anglicize the Spanish language out of spite for the next 150 years. We have towns with Spanish names that held elections of the people to decide how to pronounce the names of those towns. Those that chose to do so, said they would use an Anglicized pronounciation, such as my wife's home town in west Texas called Lamesa (luh-MEE-suh).   So, we have indeed participated in inventing unpronouncable names, ...at least to the Spanish heritage people moving into Texas illegally (a real social problem) from Mexico.   Some day I will inquire why the English changed the names or spellings of German organ stops when Father Schulze did his magic in England.   With jovial heart and best wishes for your good day,   F. Richard Burt     ..      
(back) Subject: Re: Baptist Churches that aren't "Baptist" From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:34:34 EST   Monty,   Your description of Myers Park Baptist in Charlotte reminds me of Bethany Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Houston, Texas in the 1990's. I = sang there for several years and also served as interim organist and = choirmaster there for a time.   Neo-gothic architecture, cassocks and cottas for the choir, banners and processions (at Christmas and Easter, with a CRUCIFER), following the = lectionary, three manual instrument of some quality, high anglican music for weekly Communion --this all reminds me of Bethany. (It was not unheard of for the = "Area Minister" to be referred to--half seriously--as "The Bishop"!).   Unfortunately, they've slipped a notch or two in their "High" evangelical style in recent years. However, it was great to hear your description of = Myers Park and to know that the South has other churches not afraid to take the = best from ALL traditions! There's something very special about churches like = that.   Bill H.    
(back) Subject: Re: careful, now...(slightly off topic) From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:40:03 -0600   Hello, Amy: > * * * I have struggled for some time now with the question > of what is appropriate for worship. You have hit the nail on the head, dead-center, target zero. As a maturing young man, I, too, was concerned with the "third person" settings of most of our great hymns. As the emphasis moved more toward lyrical gospel songs, the text moved toward "I-centeredness." Early on, it was not radical, but, as the pendulum swung, it passed beyond correction to excess. Perhaps we need to let the pendulum swing again, ...back toward the middle of the extremes. Wesley's "Lead Me, Lord," is a lovely song in traditional harmony, ...and it was written as a personal petition to God Himself. Sing it a capella or with the organ; it matters not; it is a lovely prayer of petition for God to be with me, lead me, and protect me. Can you imagine this piece with drums and a driving rhythm? A good musical orchestrator might put this composition in a more modern setting with strings and woodwinds, but it would be very easy to "over-cook" it. Very easy, and the appropriateness would be destroyed.   > The purpose of worship is more what we receive from God > than what we can do for Him. This is one of the great mysteries of our lives in Christ, in that we keep trying to justify our own actions. Yes, often these can be some very good actions, but ultimately our actions were motivated so we could have merit with God, when the reality is that our best is worthless in the eternal balances of what Christ, in God, has already done for us, and, if we let Him, will continue to do through us who keep our heads screwed on straight. <grins> Among my most grevious irritations among evangelicals (I'm one) is to work through the order of service and come to the preaching moment with a sense of God's presence, ....an awe among us, and the preacher thinks he has to spread humor by telling some funny stories before he can explain God's words to us. In one way or another, all of us who participate in the leading and playing of the music have experienced this. Better to know and be grateful for what God has done through you than to be the one guilty of breaking it up. Millstones, ...anyone? F. Richard Burt ..