PipeChat Digest #4284 - Tuesday, February 17, 2004
Re: Stoplist i would plan for my church, and other things related to it
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Catholic Cathedral of Moscow new pipe organ
  by "Rev. Daniel L. Maurer" <daniel@catholic.vladivostok.ru>
Re: Stoplist i would plan for my church, and other things related to it
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Stentorian Tubas
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: 2nd Opens, and 2nd and 3rd Celestes vs. Chamades
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Interesting Item
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re Pietre Vissar
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
Re: Interesting Item
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: hyfrydol and other language intricacies
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
Re: Interesting Item
  by "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net>
Re: chamadarie
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Re: A question about worship styles (X-posted)
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>

(back) Subject: Re: Stoplist i would plan for my church, and other things related to it From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 06:04:45 EST   In a message dated 2/16/2004 10:58:55 PM Central Standard Time, nicemusica@yahoo.com writes: Great I 16 Principal MONTRE 8 Principal---------MUST BE BEEFY! 8 Gemshorn -------REPLACE WITH A GAMBA 8 Melodia-----------SHOULD BE A FLUTE HARMONIQUE 4 Octave 4 Flute 2 2/3 Twelfth 2 Super octave IV Mixture 8 Trompet WHAT ABOUT A 16' TRUMPET???? WHAT ABOUT A BIG = CORNET???????? THINK FRENCH!   Choir/Positif II 8 Principal MONTRE 8 Clarabella 8 Erzahler DON'T NEED IT 8 Erzahler Celeste VOCE UMANA AGAINST THE THE PRINCIPAL ----FRESCOBALDI =   !!!! 8 Flute Celeste DON'T NEED IT 8 Unda Maris II DON'T NEED IT 4 Octave 4 Blockflute 2 2/3 Sesquialtera 2 Octave 2 Petite Flute LUXURY 1 1/3 Larigot III Sharp Mixture 8 English Trumpet (with some type of Willis or Harrison Shallots) 8 Clarinette CROMORNE -FRENCH CLASSIC 8 Trompeta Real LUXURY ITEM   Swell III 16 Bourdon Doux YOU NEED A POWERFUL 16' SWELL FOUNDATION 8 Octave- 8 Flute Harmonique BELONGS ON THE GREAT!!!!!!THINK WIDOR AND VIERNE 8 Bourdon 8 Viole de Gambe 8 Viole Celeste 4 Octave 4 Koppleflute 2 2/3 Nazard 2 Octave 2 Flute Octave 1 3/5 Tierce IV Fourniture 16 Contre Trompette CAN BE A UNIT 8 Cornopean 8 Oboe 8 Vox humana IF $ is an issue-ditch this! 4 Clairon SAME AS ABOVE   Pedal 32 Soubasse 16 PrincipalBass WOOD 16 Soubasse 16 Principal (great ext) 8 Octave MONTRE 8 Grave Flute 4 Choralbass 4 Cantus Flute DON'T NEED IT-BORROW FROM GREAT IV Grave Mixture DON'T NEED IT 32 Grave Trumpet SHOULD BE AN EXTENSION OF THE POSAUNE 16 Posaune MUST BE WOOD 16 Contre Trompette (sw) A GOOD POSAUNE WILL ELIMINATE THE NEED 8 Trompetbass WHAT ABOUT A 4' REED FOR CHORALE PRELUDES??? CAN BE = FROM GREAT TOO... I've added comments in CAPS next to your spec. Also-consider trimming = it down and have a tracker built! You won't regret it! Study the = specification at Saint Sulpice-or better yet-St, Francois de Sales (Widor's first job) = Since it is a Catholic church, the organ should be able to play the dickens out = of French and Italian music-in addition to French Romantic music. gfc Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Catholic Cathedral of Moscow new pipe organ From: "Rev. Daniel L. Maurer" <daniel@catholic.vladivostok.ru> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:32:15 +1000   February 17, 2004   Dear Listers,   Sister Valentina Novakovskaya, director of music programs = and liturgical music for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of the Most Holy = Mother of God in Moscow has asked me to help her with a major project of = historical and musical importance: to fill the bill of a gala organ concert series in Moscow in January = 2005 for the inauguration of a new pipe organ for the Moscow Roman = Catholic Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception. =20   The instrument is presently under construction by a German organ = builder. When it is finished it will have 85 stops and will be, I am = told, the largest pipe organ in Russia (but not in the former Soviet = Union). It is scheduled to be dedicated on New Year's Day 2005, with = the concert series scheduled for the same week.   Sister Valentina says that they would like the concerts to be a = celebration of the return of religious freedom in Russia, and would like = to invite the head organists of the worlds most notable pipe organs in = Catholic and Protestant cathedrals and major churches all around the = world. Since I am an American priest working in Russia, she asked my = help to identify for her noteworthy organists of noteworthy organs from = Christian churches in the United States of America.   This is a daunting task, since the U.S. has so many famous = organs at famous churches. Since I am not an organist, I need help = fulfilling Sr. Valentina's request. I do not seen how this can be done = without someone taking offense, but here goes:   Just in terms of organs/churches (not taking into account = organists), I am thinking that the "very short" list would include:   For the Catholics: The National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, Washington, D.C. St. Patrick Cathedral, New York Holy Name Cathedral, Chicago Cathedral Basilica of the Sacred Heart, Newark, NJ   For the Protestants, a representative selection of various = denominations might include: First Congregational Church, Los Angeles, CA Grace Cathedral, San Francisco, CA West Point Cadet Chapel, Annapolis, MD St. Matthew Lutheran, Hanover, PA St. Bartholomew's and/or Riverside Church, NY, NY Calvary Church, Charlotte, NC Second Baptist Church, Houston, TX   1. Please help me to identify the organists of the above = churches.   2. Please write me your comments on the above lists and your = suggestions for other churches and their organists for the gala = inaugural concerts. I am assuming that Sr. Valentina is staying within = the Christian denominations and not branching out to other religions, = but I may be wrong. I will write her for a clarification. But I wanted = to post this now because she asked me over a week ago, and I am just = getting to it.   3. I would also appreciate receiving addresses and telephone = numbers of the recommended organists so that after Sr. Valentina makes = her decisions she will be able to invite the organists to the event.   Thank you for your help. Please write to me privately at:   daniel(at)catholic(dot)vladivostok(dot)ru   Sincerely yours, Rev. Fr. Daniel Maurer, Director of Music Programs Most Holy Mother of God Catholic Cathedral Vladivostok, Russia      
(back) Subject: Re: Stoplist i would plan for my church, and other things related to it From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:31:22 EST   >Now...all i want is a superhorn...a Harmonic trompeta that is simply = placed >horizontally. Its what I love...and it will create a good visual for the church.   From the sounds of the shape of the church and reading the stoplist you've =   designed, that's a lot of organ in a low room. Yes, organ builders can = voice down the organ, but I think that it's better to not over do it. You need = to support solid congregational singing and have a good instrument for = literature, but in a low room, a chamade can peel paint off of the wall at 30 feet. = MY suggestion is to go for the big-tuba in a box sound or a big hooded = trumpet that can be controlled. Schoenstein and several others build stops like these = that are even in their own expression boxes within another expression chamber. =   That allows for you to get all sorts of dynamic control over the stop, = making it much more useful than the ordinary chamade. I agree a chamade is an impressive looking rank, but not always a useful stop. When I was at = Calvary, due to the size of the room, and placement of the party horns, I could use one of = the 5 sets of chamades almost weekly in some way--in an intro. to a hymn, in = the postlude, etc. At my current church, due to the size of the building and placement of the chamade, I hardly ever use it because it blows people out = of the sanctuary. I'd rather have a couple other useful stops than an unuseable chamade. For our new organ, we are having an enclosed hooded, high = pressure reed; two different Tuba ranks (unenclosed); an enclosed Harmonic Trumpet and a chamade that will play from the antiphonal. I opted to have more of the = solo reeds be enclosed for the dynamic control because of the usefulness = factor.   As to the stoplist, there are a couple of questions I have. On the = Great, would you not want to have some different stops that on the Choir? I see = too much similarity between the Melodia/Clarabella and the Gemshorn/Erzahler. = The only real difference is going to be volume, but the character is going to = be too similar. I would opt on the Great to go with the four = foundations...8' Principal/Diapason, 8'Violone/Gambe, 8' Harmonic Flute, 8' Bourdon. I = would also add a 16' on the Choir, even if it's a reed. Just my own personal preference, as well as adding real strings. Some big ol' fat Gambes or = Viola Pomposas. Just some things to think about.   Monty Bennett    
(back) Subject: Stentorian Tubas From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:35:29 +0000 (GMT)   Three Tubas which completely swamped the rest of the organ were (maybe still are) Harrow School Speechroom - Harrison and Harrison 1955 - which has two, A Tuba - enormous - and an Orchestral Tuba - a good full swell effect with Octave and Sub couplers on, Peterborough Cathedral, though the NPOR says it is unusable - it was about 3 times the volume of the rest of the organ combined, and Southwark R.C. cathedral, of which the same could be said. I seem to remember Guildford Cathedral being pretty horrendous as well! John Foss   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : God's gonna GIT you! The religious Right A failure of trust - can we trust governments any longer?     ___________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save = =A380 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk  
(back) Subject: Re: 2nd Opens, and 2nd and 3rd Celestes vs. Chamades From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:37:28 EST   Bud wrote regarding a chamade:   >Given the cost, I'd rather have a 2nd Open Diapason on the Great and/or >a second (or third) celeste (grin).   This is the reason that my new instrument is so large....I have all of the =   above. I fully agree, however, that a chamade is way down the list of priorities. = A Tuba is much more usable and much more "aurally friendly" to the = congregation in most church applications. We in the USA have applied the "bigger is better" mindset to everything we do--from fast-food to our church organs. = We have to have 15 rank organs with chamades. Why can't we have a complete = instrument that plays literature and a solid service before we start sticking up = party horns that will knock the socks off of the little old ladies whose Mary = Circle #3 Bible Study paid for it from the proceeds form their annual bake sale? =     When we were planning our organ, I was going to have a Chamade in the = front and one in the back. I was planning on the Harmonic Trumpet as part of = our "Grand Choeur" division and the Tubas (Tuben?) as part of the Solo. It = was Francesco's idea as a cost saver and also to give me more flexibility to = have an enclosed hooded high presure reed in the Choir, rather than a second = Chamade. His thinking was that I could use all the big reeds together in front (or various combinations thereof) plus the enclosed solo reeds could be used = in ways that a chmade couldn't--to cap off an ensemble, with the box closed, and = then open the box to the desired level of sonic bloom. While not having the = visual appeal, I just don't know that $30-40,000 (or more!) is necessarily well spent money when it can be put to good use on ranks that will be played = more frequently like celestes or foundations stops. A hooded trumpet like we = have in the choir cost us only a little bit more than a regular chorus reed rank, = but not nearly as much as a polish, spun brass chamade, and the effect is comparable.   There is a United Methodist church in the town where I grew up that = rebuilt their organ and added a chorus trumpet on the Great manual. It was placed = in "chamade" placement more for visual excitement, but also because there = wasn't much room for it. It cuts through a little bit more than a standard = chorus reed, but it's definitely not the standard "chamade". They didn't use = polished brass or any kind of special finish on the pipes--standard pipe metal. I always wished that the rank was a little bit more powerful, because the = expectation is that the rank "should" do something since it's there, but when it's = heard, it's "just" a trumpet.   Most American churches just aren't built for stops of the magnitude like = the Bombarde at Sacre Coeur. Our buildings are small, seating several hundred;carpeted, with bad acoustics. While we all would love to have = some big "honkers" to wail away on every week, if we all had them, we'd run off = most of our congregations. Let's face it, we have a great time doing fanfares and = stuff, but when a big reed is blowing in the face of the biggest benefactor of the congregation, it's not a good thing. Even Virgil got in trouble at = Riverside for the same thing. At churches like the Crystal Cathedral, Calvary and Coral =   Ridge, the chamades are placed high up in the organ cases, above the heads = of most of the congregation and far enough away from them that they can be used without too much fear of blowing off the heads of those who pay the tithes = that go into the organists paychecks. Those are the exceptions to the rule. 98% = of other churches don't fall into those categories. I can name you churches = where I have played concerts where chamades are literally high enough off the ground that they can be touched if a person is 6' tall. At the Episcopal = church in downtown Santa Barbara, CA, they have a sign that is put out on Sundays = when the chamade will be used during the services. It gets placed right inside = the back door of the church, so everyone who enters has to see it. It just = has a warning saying something to the effect that the "Trumpet stop will be used =   today." I'm sorry, but if a warning has to be employed, the stop is too = loud for the building. The stop is only about 6 1/2 or 7' off the ground, = right under the window at the rear of the nave.   We need to think about what we inflict on our congregations because of = what we want. A good cook doesn't over do the spice, a good organist doesn't = overdo the chamade.     Monty Bennett    
(back) Subject: Re: Interesting Item From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:44:24 -0600   Was really curious about this one. Anyone know what has happened with Pieter?   F. Richard Burt     .. - - - - - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mack02445" <mack02445@comcast.net> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 11:01 PM Subject: Interesting Item     > A friend in the Houston area sent me this today knowing I follow > "organic happenings." > > Mack > > The Houston Chronicle (newspaper) of 13 Feb. has a "Bankruptcy Auction" > notice for 19 Feb. (Thur.) @ 10:00: Visser & Assoc., 22814 Commercial > Ln., Tomball, TX. > > A Web-Site is printed on same notice: > <http://www.webstersauction.com>www.webstersauction.com   Could not get that link to connect, so used some intervention techniques and found this list.   Thursday 19 February 2004 10 am   From Bankruptcy#04-30533 Visser & Associates Pipe Organ Builders at 22814 Commercial Lane in Tomball (Key Map 289L) we will be selling 2 drill presses, radial saw, drill bits, horizontal and vertical air compressors, hard rubber forklift, hand tools, sanders, drills, band saw, paint booth, paint guns, wood clamps, horizontal boring machine, disc sander, drafting tables, desks, map cases, executive desks, chairs, files, time clock and more. Doors will open at 9 am for veiwing, the auction will start at 10 am.        
(back) Subject: Re Pietre Vissar From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 05:54:34 -0800 (PST)   Hi is a regular poster to Pipeorg-l and I think I saw a post by him within = the last several weeks ..... Matt     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online  
(back) Subject: Re: Interesting Item From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:56:28 -0500   At 07:44 AM 2004-02-17 -0600, you wrote: >Was really curious about this one. Anyone know what >has happened with Pieter? > >F. Richard Burt Hi,   He put an ad on the organ classifieds looking for a job, preferably in management.   Arie V.      
(back) Subject: Re: hyfrydol and other language intricacies From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:57:17 EST   Can you imagine what I do to Spanish names or any other - being raised in Oklahoma, moved to Detroit, then to El Paso, back to Oklahoma, to New = Hampshire, to San Antonio, back to Oklahoma spending much time in New York and now in =   Texas. No one knows from where I came. Keith still has a strong = Mississippi "accent." However, he pronounces names of organ pieces and organ stops as =   correctly as a professional. Voice lessons and having to sing in Italian, = French and German took the "Okie twang" out of my speech. Lee    
(back) Subject: Re: Interesting Item From: "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@surfbest.net> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:10:16 -0500   I love reading the descriptions on eBay.   Right now there is an organ from St. Whence Is Lost church...   Paul.    
(back) Subject: Re: chamadarie From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:11:59 -0600   I assume the stop you're mentioning, Jim, is in the Berghaus organ at St. Raphael RC Church, 1215 Modaff Road, Naperville, IL. On Sunday, March 14, there will be a concert at 7:00 PM in which I will use this stop in an = organ work of mine that I've dedicated to the church and its 2 organists--a fantasy on "O love How Deep" (tune Deo gracias, aka Agincourt Hymn). I = hope some Chicago-area folks on this list can be there. The piece should be in the Augsburg Fortress warehouse on March 1 if everything goes according to plan, and copies should be available for sale at the concert.   Robert Lind   ----- Original Message ----- From: james nerstheimer <enigma1685@hotmail.com> > > BTW, there is a Berghaus in Naperville with a chamade Regal-something = also > found on Spanish organs. Bzzzzzz, Bzzzzzzz!    
(back) Subject: Re: A question about worship styles (X-posted) From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:18:11 -0500   On 2/16/04 10:10 PM, "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org> wrote:   > churches which have switched from CCM back to traditional, liturgical = worship?   TommyLee, you may have seen the term "convergence worship." Do a google = on it, and you'll probably get a bucketful of what you're talking about.   Alan