PipeChat Digest #4289 - Thursday, February 19, 2004
Re: First Baptist Church, Jackson, Mississippi
  by "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net>
Re: Carpets, Ruffati's and other miscellanea "Down Under"
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: Chamaderie
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: First Baptist Church, Jackson, Mississippi
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: detached "tracker" keydesks
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: NU Update
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Andrew Davis recording (wasRe: NU Update)
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Re: Andrew Davis recording (wasRe: NU Update)
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
RE: detached "tracker" keydesks
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
Henry and Edsel Ford Auditorium - Detroit...
  by "Blair Anderson" <bda@shaw.ca>

(back) Subject: Re: First Baptist Church, Jackson, Mississippi From: "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 06:06:02 -0600   Desiree,   Your posts are coming acrosse to me a blank, unless I view the source. = Have you set your mail client to Plain Text???? I would love to read what you have to say :0   Tim   ----- Original Message ----- From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 8:11 PM Subject: Re: First Baptist Church, Jackson, Mississippi         --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.591 / Virus Database: 374 - Release Date: 2/17/2004    
(back) Subject: Re: Carpets, Ruffati's and other miscellanea "Down Under" From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:59:53 +0800   Dear John,   Thank you for your kind remarks about the Land Down Under. We are usually fielding brickbats (you colonials etc.) and it is pleasant to hear = something on the other side.   I note you are visiting in our spring. For your information the annual Conference of the Organ Historic Trust of Australia is to be held in Perth Western Australia commencing on September 25th. There is a wealth of = organs in the capital including a new four manual in St Patrick's Basilica Fremantle which is the largest church organ in Australia. With a good acoustic in a beautiful building the effect is absolutely stunning. The = case also is a remarkable one; hard to describe it but it would well grace one = of the old Cathedrals in Europe.   If you were able to include this four days in your itinerary we would be very happy to include you in the Conference, of which I am one of the organizers.A brochure will be sent out soon. If you would like to receive one whether you can make the Conference or not, please let me have your mailing address and I will post you one.   By the way you can find me and the West Australian Gazetteer of Pipe = Organs in the OHTA website. Just click on Gazetteers on the website home page.   Kind regards, Bob Elms. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 4:24 PM Subject: Carpets, Ruffati's and other miscellanea "Down Under"     > Having just read Bill Bryson's very amusing book "Down > Under", about Australia for those list members who > might not have heard of it, (Australia, that is!) when > it comes down to quality, and at the present, > quantity, per capita Australia seems to be far ahead > of anywhere else in the world! It is an enormous > country - yet with a population of a mere 19,000,000, > not much bigger than that of Greater London, and with > a wealth of history with regard to organs and > organists. Mark Quarmby tells me that four new organs > have either been installed or are on the books for > this year, including a new Ruffati at St Patrick's RC > Church - go to > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mquarmby/Calendar4/Feb.html > for a photograph by Mark Quarmby and specification of > this beautiful looking instrument. A new Mander > tracker action organ (17 stops) is being built for > Sydney Grammar School, a 41 stop Letourneau is under > construction for St Mark's, Darling Point and the new > RC Cathedral in Western Sydney is receiving a Norman > and Beard Transplant from London under the guidance of > Stephen Bicknell. > http://au.geocities.com/accook2001/music/carpet.htm > The performing standards in Australia are amongst the > world's highest - going back to George Thalben Ball, > and before - they are to the organ as they are to > cricket, virtually unbeatable! Yet rarely mentioned. > What started me off on this track was Desiree Hines on > removable carpets - "Our room has 3 seconds > reverberation and that can be changed by > removing the carpet in the aisles." Visit the site of > Australian organist Christopher Cook, who includes a > plea and advice on this topic under the heading "The > Liturgical Anti Carpet Movement", providing good > arguments against these > horrors!http://au.geocities.com/accook2001/music/carpet.htm > I have booked my ticket for the late summer (Europe), > early spring (Antipodes) to visit this wondrous > country and their magnificent organs. > John Foss > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > www.johnfoss.gr > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ > Topics of the week : > God's gonna GIT you! The religious Right > A failure of trust - can we trust governments any longer? > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Chamaderie From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:05:07 EST   Desiree' wrote: >I do know better than to put a chamade in a dead room. And our ceiling is = a >good 35 feet high. Mercy lol > >No, Im not saying I want an exact copy. Im just saying that the tiny bit = of >purist in me likes to keep the stop made in that style..where it = originated. > >Our room has 3 seconds reverberation and that can be changed by >removing =   the carpet in the aisles. >Mercy yall I know what im talking about. Give others credit.   I still would argue the point that in a room like that, a solo reed should = be under expression and should be a Tuba or some sort or smoother reed sound. = It really is much more valuable as a player. It can still be non-coupling = or floating or however you would like it to be, BUT UNDER EXPRESSION, and you = will find it to much 10 times more useful, and the little old ladies won't gasp =   every time it gets used. When it's enclosed, too, the reed can also be = voiced bigger than it can be if it was a chamade. Plus you get the cost saving factor. It really just isn't worth the extra money you have to shell out = for a rank of polished trumpet pipes. I'd rather have a big solo reed in a box, plus = an extra set of celestes or something else that I'd use every week like an English Horn or a gorgeous solo flute or even a novelty voice like a Vox = (with it's own trem!), all for the same cost as a Chamade.   As to ripping out carpet....well, that's an issue that has been around as long as carpet looms have been in existance. If the carpet is already = down, good luck is all I can say. In most congregation's minds, carpet and church go =   together like pie and ice cream. Instead of riping it up, you're likely = to get new carpet. I did an interim position at a church in Charlotte that was undergoing a renovation. The Music Director and I fought tooth and nail = for the choir loft not to be carpeted, but the Trustees and the Interior Designer = who was doing the work just insisted that it would look wrong for the choir = loft not to match the stairs going into the choir loft, even if we had the loft = tiled with composite tile flooring. The result, a beatifully carpeted floor. A lovely shade of red, specially =   milled just for the church. Another effect, the choir can't be heard past = the third row of pews. The organ's sound is sucked up, the piano doesn't get = heard beyond the pulpit, and the Trustees answer is just to mic everything more. = At that point, I turned down the job offer to make the interim job = permanent and accepted the job offer at Friendship.   This was a Protestant church, but Catholics love their carpets just at = much at Protestants, do. I've been in some gorgeous Catholic churches in the Northeast. Walking in the narthex, feeling a twinge of excitement opening the doors = to the nave, and being hit by a flood of 1970's carpeting from a Vatican II "renovation". What was once a glorious acoustical space is now just sort = of an acoustical blob. Churches that once had 7 or 8 seconds of reverb might = now have 2 or 3 if they are lucky. Some have less than that. These are in big barns = of churches from the late 1800's that seat 1800 or 2000 people and are graced =   with stained glass for days, non-padded pews, etc. What should be grand = and glorious acoustics are no more. One of my friends serves at a church like = this. When he was hired, he asked the Pastor about the carpet, and was told that = it was staying.   Regarding a tracker with a detached console, how large is the gallery = where the choir sings? How big is the choir now? How large do you see it = growing? There is a church in Columbia, SC that has a detached console on it's = tracker and the choir sings from either side of the organ case. The console is detached so the organist/director can be far enough back to direct the = choir. The action is easy to play. I've played stiffer trackers that have consoles = en fenetre. As long as I had all the modern conveniences of pistons and = multiple memories, as well as an AGO standard console, I think I'd be fine with a = modern tracker. The Mander at St. Ignatius (console en fenetre) is a joy to play--it's got a responsive action, pistons, multiple memories and swell = boxes that bring the full swell down to a whisper! It even has a battery of = chamades, but they are voiced more along the Tuba line and they are in a HUGE building = with acoustics for days. Ruffatti is building a couple of trackers for = churches right now. I'm not sure if they have attached consoles or not. Walker (England) has built several organs in the US that have detached consoles. = Here in Charlotte, there is a Visser-Rowland that has a detached console in which = the trackers run under the choir seating and into the pipe chamber that = formerly housed a Moller. (I played a concert with a brass quintet on it a couple = years ago--the action was pretty hard, but that is the only V-R that I've ever played, so I don't know if they are all that way or if it's just that = one.) Dobson, Noack, Bedient and Holtkamp have all done it, too. If flexibility is an issue, a moveable console might be your only choice, ruling out a tracker. Look around, talk to builders. Go out and play = some instruments and see what you like. What kind of chamber space do you = have? What kind of budget do you have for a new organ? Sometimes a builder might = have an organ or parts of an organ that he can in corporate into a new instrument = for considerably less than a completely new organ, or like Bud's former church = was doing--doing it in stages.   Monty Bennett    
(back) Subject: Re: First Baptist Church, Jackson, Mississippi From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:06:01 EST   Is the organ completely new or was any of it salvaged from the old organ? Is any of the Skinner left?   Monty Bennett    
(back) Subject: Re: detached "tracker" keydesks From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:13:53 -0600   Good Morning, Hmmmm...... Detached console tracker organ brings up a fond memory of hearing and inspecting the Holtkamp organ at Saint John's United Methodist Church in Lubbock, Texas. This is a "tracker" organ in that it uses mechanical keying action, but the key action is based on a pair of "fishing lines" from each key to the pallets. As we walked into the "back" side of the organ, the geometric display of the connections between the console and the action was beautiful to behold. Such detached consoles can probably be logically placed in relation to the choir singers and have the windchests in logical placement as well. The organ's sound at the console was very comfortable. Mechanically, the manual and pedal keys were very responsive, and the stops were activated by an electric action. F. Richard Burt   ..    
(back) Subject: Re: NU Update From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 06:25:33 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Malcolm is indeed correct.   Try the following link:_   http://www.novalynx.ca/MusicAlbumsPg01.html   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Malcolm Wechsler <manderusa@earthlink.net> wrote: > Hi Greg, > > If I am not mistaken, Andrew Davis was at one time > Organ Scholar at one of the great English colleges - .........he was certainly known as an > Organist.     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools  
(back) Subject: Andrew Davis recording (wasRe: NU Update) From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:04:43 -0600   I have an LP somewhere that must be the very recording shown in the URL Colin gives below. Gabriel Kney organ, IIRC. It was on this record that I heard Sir Ernest MacMillan's Cortege Academique, a fine piece. = Fortunately, I found a copy of it (Novello) in Toronto in the mid 1980s. A worthwhile addition to the repertoire. Bob Lind   ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin Mitchell <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 8:25 AM Subject: Re: NU Update     > Hello, > > Malcolm is indeed correct. > > Try the following link:_ > > http://www.novalynx.ca/MusicAlbumsPg01.html    
(back) Subject: Re: Andrew Davis recording (wasRe: NU Update) From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:40:25 -0500   At 10:04 AM 2/19/2004, Bob Lind wrote: >I have an LP somewhere that must be the very recording shown in the URL >Colin gives below. Gabriel Kney organ, IIRC. It was on this record that I >heard Sir Ernest MacMillan's Cortege Academique, a fine piece. = Fortunately, >I found a copy of it (Novello) in Toronto in the mid 1980s. A worthwhile >addition to the repertoire.   Bob Conway reminisces:   When I had my Radio programme "Voicings" at CFRC-FM I was also asked to = do the music for the broadcast of our Convocations, - the Degree Awarding Ceremonies here at Queen's University at Kingston Ontario.   I always programmed the Sir Ernest MacMillan "Cortege Academique" as part of my music, - it served two purposes, it was a very suitable piece of music for the purpose, (although it was, in fact, written for the University of Toronto).   The other thing was that by playing Andrew Davis' LP, I scored Canadian Content on two points, music was written by a Canadian composer, and it = was played and recorded on an organ in Toronto, - now if only Andrew Davis had =   been Canadian I would have hit the bulls eye!   Somewhere or another I still have that LP, but it was only ever played for =   that purpose, and only that one track!   However, if you want to hear the finest performance of Handel's "The Messiah" - just beg, borrow or steal Andrew Davis' CD of that work, - as =   far as I am aware, it is still available, - to my way of thinking, it is the finest performance ever!   Just a little nudge for Andrew Davis' recordings whilst he was here in = Toronto.   Bob Conway      
(back) Subject: RE: detached "tracker" keydesks From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:32:13 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Hi all, I have some opinions and some questions about this:   The best engineered detached mech tracker console I saw was that of the Peachtree Road UMC Mander in Atlanta. Honestly I never tought that it wou= ld be possible to make so large trackers so light without any PN aid!   I am not a "neobarroque" enthusiast, but it brought some big advantages t= o OB in my opinion. One of them: New knowledges in mech tracker / slider ch= est engineering. (Other developments lie in Mixture design, and manufacture/voicing/tonal finish of extremely small pipes). It brought ne= w ideas and methods that will be useful in our present and future.   Someone mentioned a mech tracker Holtkamp with "fishing line-trackers". I= t's years ago that I didn't hear from that system! It was used for a time but given up due to several troubles. QUESTION: Are more of these "out there" and still functioning?   Finally, bold and complicated tracker building projects should be left to builders or building firms with a long background-experience in tracker actions. Very much can be done in our days, but the know how is another thing and somebody who all his lifetime built nothing but EP actions is a= t risk to fail then... BTW the reverse applies too. Stop actions always sho= uld be electric from II/10 up IMHO as both tech and organist.   > On the other hand, I was briefly at a Lutheran church with a Schlicker > and detached console that was like driving a truck with no power > steering. This was in complete contrast to another Schlicker of around > the same vintage that had a detached console and was fine....go figure.   Interesting. Organs of the same vintage by the same builder should "feel" very alike. Some misadjustment trouble, tampered or too strong pallet springs, humidity or a higher WP perhaps [in the first organ]? Or differe= nt size or console placement? Oblique tracker runs can be 'heavier' than straight (90=BA square) ones.   Yours Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.    
(back) Subject: Henry and Edsel Ford Auditorium - Detroit... From: "Blair Anderson" <bda@shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:36:35 -0600   Gentle ListFolk:   This morning, Canadian listeners to CBC Two were treated to an airing of th= e Saint-Sa=EBns Symphony No. 3 "Organ" recorded in the Henry and Edsel Ford Auditorium in Detroit, MI. The recording was a "Mercury Living Presence" recording made in 1957 using the auditorium's organ, an Aeolian-Skinner, Opus 1324. Marcel Dupr=E9 was the organist.   It is my understanding that the Ford Auditorium has been razed for waterfront redevelopment. The organ was supposedly removed.   Does anyone on this list know the fate of the organ?   In researching the instrument on Google, it was determined to be an interesting instrument incorporating a portable organ of two manuals that could be moved about and played separately from the main console.   Does anyone have any further Internet resources that I couldn't find, or anything else of interest regarding the instrument?   The specification is listed below.   CHEERS! Blair... ------------------------------------------------------------------------   Builder: Aeolian-Skinner Co Year: 1957 Opus: 1324   Case=20 Builder: Aeolian-Skinner Date: =20 Materials: =20 Console type: Detached Stop controls: Draw knob Pedals type: Radiating, concave Action=20 Key: Electro-Pneumatic Stop: Electronic Temperament: =20 Tuning (a'): =20 No. stops: =20 No. ranks: 71 No. pipes: =20   Specification=20 Great (II)   16' Montre 61 8' Principal 61 8' Bourdon 61 4' Octave 61 2 2/3' Twelfth 61 2' Fifteenth 61 IV Fourniture 244 IV Cymbel 244 16' Bombarde 61 8' Trompette Harmonique 61 4' Clairon Harmonique 61 =20 Swell (III)   16' Rohrgedackt 61 8' Viola Pomposa 61 8' Viola Celeste 61 8' Rohrgedackt 12 4' Prestant 61 4' Flauto Traverso 61 2' Octavin 61 IV Plein Jeu 244 16' Contre Hautbois 61 8' Trompette 61 4' Clairon 61 Tremulant =20 Choir (I)   8' Spitzviol 61 8' Flute a Cheminee 61 8' Dolcan 61 8' Dolcan Celeste 49 4' Nachthorn 61 2' Blockflote 61 II Sesquialtera 122 8' Rohrschalmei 61 4' Petite Clairon 61 Tremulant   Pedal =20 16' Contre Basse 32 16' Montre -- GT 16' Bourdon 32 16' Rohrgedackt -- SW 8' Octave 32 8' Bourdon 12 8' Rohrgedackt -- SW 4' Choralbass 12 4' Bourdon 12 V Mixtur 160 32' Contre Bombarde 12 16' Posaune 32 16' Bombarde -- GT 16' Contre Hautbois -- SW 8' Trumpet 12 4' Clairon 12 =20 Hauptwerk (II, portable)   16' Quintade 61 8' Prinzipal 61 8' Holzgedackt 61 4' Praestant 61 2 2/3' Quinte 61 2' Super Oktav 61 IV Mixtur 244 8' Krummhorn -- PO =20 Positiv (I, portable)   8' Rohrflote 61 8' Spitzflote -- HW 4' Koppelflote 61 2 2/3' Nasat 61 2' Oktav 61 1 3/5' Terz 61 1' Sifflote 61 III Zimbel 183 8' Krummhorn 61 =20 Pedal (portable)   16' Gedacktbass 12 16' Quintade -- HW 8' Spitzprinzipal 32 8' Spitzflote -- HW 8' Holzgedackt -- HW 4' Choralbass 12 4' Holzgedackt -- HW 2' Holzgedackt -- HW 16' Krummhorn 12 8' Krummhorn -- PO 4' Krummhorn -- PO   _________________________________________ Quidquid it est, prudenter agas et respice finem.