PipeChat Digest #4311 - Saturday, February 28, 2004
 
MY Passion - not Mr.Gibson's
  by "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Re: singing the Amen
  by "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Re: MY Passion - not Mr.Gibson's
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: new Johannus organ
  by "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net>
Re: I have a confession to make - I'm a terrible organist
  by "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net>
Re: new Johannus organ
  by "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net>
Re: singing the Amen
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Re: new Johannus organ
  by "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net>
Re: Re: new Johannus organ
  by "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net>
Re: new Johannus organ
  by "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net>
Re: new Johannus organ
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: singing the Amen
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Convergent worship
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
RE: singing the Amen
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Convergent worship
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: singing the Amen
  by "Shaun Brown" <S.D.Brown@exeter.ac.uk>
Re: singing the Amen
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: singing the Amen
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: I have a confession to make - I'm a terrible organist
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
Re: North Texas State?
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
Re: new Johannus organ
  by <Praestant@aol.com>
Re: Convergent worship
  by "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net>
 

(back) Subject: MY Passion - not Mr.Gibson's From: "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:15:23 -0000   Hello, gang.   For Holy week (this year) I'm resurrecting 'Olivet to Calvary' - but splitting it all up (a la Johann Sebastian) and performing each bit on the appropriate day - starting (obviously) with the Journey To Jerusalem as = the Palm Sunday anthem - after we've processed through the village to the church.   So I started-out with the usual 'I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours' sort-of-letter; but the sarcastic title penned has provoked me to ask, to any who may have seen "THAT" film - how is the music handled and how effective is it ?   I was intrigued to learn facts about the sound-effects devised for "THAT" OTHER film- 'The Last Temptation ...'   Could someone review it, from a MUSICAL standpoint ?   Harry [musicman] Grove St. Leonard's, Clent, Worcestershire, G.B.        
(back) Subject: Re: singing the Amen From: "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:19:39 -0000   Hi,Will.   My (best) practise is to put the Amens on hymns with a Doxology as the = final verse - or anything mentioning the Trinity. Then we make it a REALLY GOOD one and stands out as a solid declamation of Faith, rather than as the obligatory 'usual' muttering(s)-into-the-pews.   Harry[musicman]Grove   St.Leonard's, Clent, Worcs. G.B.     -----Original Message----- From: Will Light <will.light@btinternet.com> To: 'PipeChat' <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: 28 February 2004 08:55 Subject: RE: singing the Amen     >Our latest Methodist hymnal in the UK, Hymns & Psalms (1985) has left = Amens >off all hymns. Prior to that, the Methodist Hymnbook (1933) had Amens on >prayers and none on others. > >Will Light >Coventry UK > > >-----Original Message----- >From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of >quilisma@cox.net >Sent: 28 February 2004 01:31 >To: PipeChat >Subject: Re: singing the Amen > >ALIENATES? Come ON! Where'd THAT come from? > >"Amen" is to be sung at the end of ALL Office Hymns that conclude with >any one of a NUMBER of Trinitarian doxologies, the most common being: > >O Father, this we ask be done >Through Jesus Christ, thine only Son; >Who with the Holy Ghost and thee >Doth live and reign eternally. Amen. > >and at the end of any hymn which is a prayer, or concludes with a >prayer, such as the refrain of "Now the Labourer's Toils Are O'er" > >Lord all-pitying, Jesu blest; >Grant them everlasting rest. Amen. > >though not after EVERY verse, of course (grin). > >The Episcopal Hymnal 1940 TRIED to make the distinction, but about half >the time the congregation, the choir, and/or I (or any combination >thereof) FORGOT and sang it ANYWAY (chuckle). > >I don't think it's worth fighting about one way or the other. > >Bud > > > > > >Shaun Brown wrote: > >> The 'Amen' should only ever be sung at the end of a hymn if the final >> verse is a doxology, Ie, >> >> Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, And to the Holy Ghost.... >> >> Even then, it should be regarded as optional, as it alienates many >> people. >> >> Most English Cathedrals rarely sing Amen at the end of a hymn. >> >> Regards, >> >> Shaun D Brown >> >> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> >> >> > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: MY Passion - not Mr.Gibson's From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 05:39:25 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   I feel that this is one resurrection too many!   That said, I confess to accompanying the whole thing last year, but I haven't put it on my CV.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- MusicMan <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> wrote: > Hello, gang. > > For Holy week (this year) I'm resurrecting 'Olivet > to Calvary'   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools  
(back) Subject: Re: new Johannus organ From: "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 07:39:48 -0600   That's GOOD news! :)-   Tim   ----- Original Message ----- From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:18 PM Subject: Re: new Johannus organ     > Hello, Tim: > > > I don't really care what Johannus is or isn't doing > > (non-compliance with US FCC Regs ring a bell?). > > Bell Ring. <dong> > > Problem's fixed. FCC approved. The corrective action > was on display at the National Association of Music Merchants > convention in Anaheim. > > Production and importation continues as normal. > > F. Richard Burt > > > . > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.596 / Virus Database: 379 - Release Date: 2/26/2004  
(back) Subject: Re: I have a confession to make - I'm a terrible organist From: "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 07:50:56 -0600   Bruce,   Sounds like classic stage fright to me. RELAX. Don't worry about getting all of the notes "perfect", just let the music play. Regarding the Eight Short ... they may look "simple" on the surface, but they AREN'T simple! There was a recent discussion as to the authorship of the eight short ... since no one voted for the Devil as author, I will. (not really) LOL!   Tim       --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.596 / Virus Database: 379 - Release Date: 2/26/2004    
(back) Subject: Re: new Johannus organ From: "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 07:53:00 -0600   'k ....   Tim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Keys4bach@aol.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:41 PM Subject: Re: new Johannus organ     In a message dated 2/27/2004 2:05:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, = octaaf@charter.net writes:     non-compliance with US FCC Regs ring a bell?). =20     now now let us play nice------   dale in florida=20     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.596 / Virus Database: 379 - Release Date: 2/26/2004  
(back) Subject: Re: singing the Amen From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 06:45:08 -0800   Will, conservative Lutherans in America sit to sing the chorales. I don't know how far back that goes, but with 15-verse chorales, it makes a certain amount of sense (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   Will Light wrote:   > WHAT?? Doesn't your congregation stand up to sing everything? How can = they > possibly sing if they are slumped in their seats? This is unheard of in > English Methodism at any rate! (Except very occasionally if we have a > prayer-hymn of maybe a couple of verses, when the minister might say "we > will sit and sing this") > > Will Light > Coventry UK > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of = Dr. > Amy Fleming > > > At our church we sing the Amen if it is written as a prayer to God, or = if > the hymn is trinitarian. Some in our congregation stand for the last = verse > if it is a trinitarian verse > Amy Fleming > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Re: new Johannus organ From: "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:43:03 -0600   Hi Jeff and list, St. John's did have a Hinners pipe organ installed when the present old church was built in 1929. It was a single chamber installation and small and was in the center of the back balcony. The chestwork is still there today holding up the Allen speakers that was installed in the 1980's. I = do not know where the Hinners console or pipework wound up. James James Grebe Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair Artisan of Wood WWW.JamesGrebe.com 1526 Raspberry Lane Arnold, MO 63010 pianoman@accessus.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <reedstop@charter.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 5:45 PM Subject: Re: Re: new Johannus organ     > Alan, I agree with you on this one, which is unusual because I rarely speak out against an electronic instrument. St. John's is over 150 years old, and is growing in leaps and bounds, and even though they built a new sanctuary, I think they could have invested some funds into a decent-sized pipe organ. Of course, I don't know their financials. I do know that they're mixed on traditional/contemporary, and I also know they've NEVER = had a pipe organ that I can tell. The old sanctuary was QUITE small. Curious that they'd prefer to get a huge electronic as opposed to a good pipe = organ. But, they made the choice and at least for now that's the plan. Perhaps they're thinking of putting in a pipe instrument in the future, but I = doubt it given the size of the instrument the DID put in. > > To each his own! :) > > Jeff > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Re: new Johannus organ From: "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:45:59 -0600   There is no alter perse. In the center against the front wall is a = stained glass large cross flanked by the dummy pipes of polished tin. It seems = like all churches are trying to copy the charismatic new style of worship while holding on as much as possible to liturgical type. James Grebe Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair Artisan of Wood WWW.JamesGrebe.com 1526 Raspberry Lane Arnold, MO 63010 pianoman@accessus.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <reedstop@charter.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 5:46 PM Subject: Re: Re: new Johannus organ     > No altar?! And this is a MO Synod congregation!! > Jeff > > No altar? I thought this was a > > Lutheran Church, and I'm getting suspicious. For contrast, see LOTS = of > > organ photos, but altar CENTRAL at www.stlukesnyc.org which is = where I > > hang out. Maybe it's a big (or not big?) difference in emphasis. > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >      
(back) Subject: Re: new Johannus organ From: "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:49:49 -0600   I may be wrong on them not having any alter. I did not see it present at the recital or when I tuned the Steinway there. James James Grebe Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair Artisan of Wood WWW.JamesGrebe.com 1526 Raspberry Lane Arnold, MO 63010 pianoman@accessus.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 7:54 PM Subject: Re: new Johannus organ     > On 2/27/04 8:29 PM, "gdeboer@bluemarble.net" <gdeboer@bluemarble.net> wrote: > > > Altar is normally central, but was moved for this concert temporarily. > > > OK. We do that too. We're in the Theatre District of Manhattan, and = have a > LOT of "performances" in our chancel. Our altar is on (gasp!) wheels. > We're not thrilled to do that, but we do DO it, when necessary. > > Best I can say in our defense is that we'd never let anybody take a > PHOTOGRAPH of the chancel in that condition. We're kind of ashamed of = it. > Would rather that people not KNOW that of us. > > But--and I mean it--best to you! > > Alan > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: new Johannus organ From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:03:57 -0600   James Grebe wrote:   > St. John's did have a Hinners pipe organ installed when the present old > church was built in 1929. > I do > not know where the Hinners console or pipework wound up.   You prolly don't WANT to know, because I'd be willing to bet it wasn't pretty, based on similar circumstances I've seen in the past. Many electronics dealers, especially back then make darned sure that "there's = no going back!"   Faithfully,   G.A. -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO <>< Schneider Pipe Organs, Inc. 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (877) 944-2454 TOLL-FREE (217) 944-2527 FAX arpschneider@starband.net Home Office EMAIL arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com URL ADDRESS  
(back) Subject: Re: singing the Amen From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:55:05 -0600   Catholics sit during the Offeratory hymn and usually they sing it (softly), as I found out when I forgot a verse! Alicia Zeilenga Sub-Dean AGO@UI "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: quilisma@cox.net To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 06:45:08 -0800 Subject: Re: singing the Amen   > Will, conservative Lutherans in America sit to sing the chorales. I > don't know how far back that goes, but with 15-verse chorales, it makes > a certain amount of sense (grin). > > Cheers, > > Bud > > Will Light wrote: > > > WHAT?? Doesn't your congregation stand up to sing everything? How can > they > > possibly sing if they are slumped in their seats? This is unheard of > in > > English Methodism at any rate! (Except very occasionally if we have a > > prayer-hymn of maybe a couple of verses, when the minister might say > "we > > will sit and sing this") > > > > Will Light > > Coventry UK > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf > Of Dr. > > Amy Fleming > > > > > > At our church we sing the Amen if it is written as a prayer to God, > or if > > the hymn is trinitarian. Some in our congregation stand for the last > verse > > if it is a trinitarian verse > > Amy Fleming > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related > topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Convergent worship From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:12:27 -0500   On 2/28/04 9:45 AM, "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> wrote:   > It seems like all churches are trying to copy the charismatic new style = of > worship while holding on as much as possible to liturgical type.   James, that's an interesting observation. I've never noticed such a = trend, but have heard lately of something called "convergent worship," which I suspect is very much like what you're describing.   Alan    
(back) Subject: RE: singing the Amen From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:04:51 +0100 (CET)   In the Norwegian State Church (Lutheran) the congregations always sit while singing the hymns, except during processions. But they always stand up when the gospel is read. There is a possibility of doing it the other way around (standing during the hymns, sitting during the gospel), but it's almost never used.   Still, the hymn singing is quite good here. I can only dream about how it good it would have been if it wasn't for this foolish practise.   - Jarle Fagerheim   ______________________________________________________ F=E5 den nye Yahoo! Messenger p=E5 http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt s=E5 = morsom  
(back) Subject: Re: Convergent worship From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:24:47 -0800   Pickles and ice cream don't mix, unless you're pregnant.   Bud   Alan Freed wrote:   > On 2/28/04 9:45 AM, "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> wrote: > > >>It seems like all churches are trying to copy the charismatic new style = of >>worship while holding on as much as possible to liturgical type. > > > James, that's an interesting observation. I've never noticed such a = trend, > but have heard lately of something called "convergent worship," which I > suspect is very much like what you're describing. > > Alan > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: RE: singing the Amen From: "Shaun Brown" <S.D.Brown@exeter.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:34:23 -0000   The final Amen can alienate people that aren't used to it being there, which is most people nowadays. I personally think it can only be accepltable if it is actually written in the congregation's order of service. How can newcomers possibly know when to do the amen, and when not to?    
(back) Subject: Re: singing the Amen From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:54:32 -0800   When I wanted an amen where none was printed, I simply tied over the soprano note. My congregation, at least, knew what to do ... that's a hoary Anglican service-playing thingie, much frowned upon these days, I know (grin).   Bud   Shaun Brown wrote:   > The final Amen can alienate people that aren't used to it being there, > which is most people nowadays. I personally think it can only be > accepltable if it is actually written in the congregation's order of > service. How can newcomers possibly know when to do the amen, and when > not to? > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: singing the Amen From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:55:49 -0500   On 2/28/04 1:34 PM, "Shaun Brown" <S.D.Brown@exeter.ac.uk> wrote:   > The final Amen can alienate people that aren't used to it being there, = which > is most people nowadays. I personally think it can only be accepltable = if it > is actually written in the congregation's order of service. How can = newcomers > possibly know when to do the amen, and when not to?   Well, OK, Shaun. Thanks for replying to my bluster. You're certainly = right that most people are NOT used to its being there--and especially = newcomers. I'm not sure that indicating it in the order of service would help a lot. Newcomers struggle enough with overload of instructions, without adding = yet another item.   And of course they could hardly know when to do it and when not. But I'd = be surprised to see people getting "alienated" [!] over such a small thing. = I think most organists (decades ago) tied the tonic into the plagal cadence, while breaking the other notes of the last syllable before "Amen," and = that was virtually an automatically intuitive way to lead the congregation into the Amen. If one is desired.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: I have a confession to make - I'm a terrible organist From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 14:50:49 EST   NO, IT IS not time to hang up your shoes. I think we all go through this = at one time or another. 10 years ago I was ready to hang it up, before all = the back surgery. I, too have ADD and it is hard to concentrate on what I am doing. However, on Sunday morning I am now able to completely concentrate = on the music I am playing and the bulletin. I can sight read pieces I never = thought I would be able to play. Don't give up. Practice more alone in a room = without any distractions and memorize as much of the service as you can. It God called you to be a church organist He will supply your needs. Eyrline    
(back) Subject: Re: North Texas State? From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 14:54:37 EST   The Bedient is already in. It is tuned to a wierd kind of tuning and the concert I heard people were leaving in droves during the intermission. I = would like to hear it again to have a different point of view about it. Eyrline    
(back) Subject: Re: new Johannus organ From: <Praestant@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:33:53 EST     In a message dated 28.2.04 9.46.32 AM, pianoman@accessus.net writes:     > There is no alter perse. >   What is an alter perse? Is it another handbag? or did you mean "altar, per =   se"?    
(back) Subject: Re: Convergent worship From: "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:59:07 -0600   My wife and I go to 2 churches. I am MO. Synod Lutheran and our minister = is very liberal and ours is a close to downtown. He keeps everyone happy by = 4 services. Saturday at 5PM more or less liturgical. 8:45 AM on Sunday = with a Chicago style service. Never figured out what that means., 10:15 = regular liturgical service and once a month service in German for the real old liners. The Methodist service are much more free style and in the summer will have another service at a school close by with a contemporary (band = and all) for the really unchurched. The Methodist church has a video screen = now intact. My opinion is that churches are trying any or all things to = attract members. James James Grebe Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair Artisan of Wood WWW.JamesGrebe.com 1526 Raspberry Lane Arnold, MO 63010 pianoman@accessus.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 11:12 AM Subject: Convergent worship     > On 2/28/04 9:45 AM, "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> wrote: > > > It seems like all churches are trying to copy the charismatic new = style of > > worship while holding on as much as possible to liturgical type. > > James, that's an interesting observation. I've never noticed such a trend, > but have heard lately of something called "convergent worship," which I > suspect is very much like what you're describing. > > Alan > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >