PipeChat Digest #4189 - Thursday, January 1, 2004 Iconoclasm & art by "Colin Mitchell" <email@example.com> Diane Bish Organ Concert by <Icedad@aol.com> Re: Young church musicians (was RCs and Anglicans) by <RMB10@aol.com> RE: Organists Shoes by "Glenda" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Organists and Compensation by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <email@example.com> Re: Organists Shoes by "Malcolm Wechsler" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Organists Shoes ... NEXT! (grin) by "David Evangelides" <email@example.com> Organists Shoes by "Patricia/Thomas Gregory" <firstname.lastname@example.org> clearing house by <DavidL1205@aol.com> Re: PipeChat Digest #4188 - 01/01/04 by <email@example.com> Re: Organists Shoes by "Shirley" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Bulletins by "Shirley" <email@example.com> Re: Organists and Compensation by <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Organists Shoes by <RMaryman@aol.com> RE: Organists Shoes by "Glenda" <email@example.com> Re: Organists Shoes by "John L. Speller" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: clearing house by "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Re: PipeChat Digest #4188 - 01/01/04 by "John L. Speller" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Organists Shoes by "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Re: Organists Shoes by <FastToccata@aol.com>
(back) Subject: Iconoclasm & art From: "Colin Mitchell" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 14:46:19 -0800 (PST) Hello, The destruction of "art" was, I believe, a very deliberate act right across the Christian world of churchgoing. It wasn't something which happened in isolation. There was a move away from prosaic language and high art in many walks of life.....even the call for "plain and simple English" in legal documents. Thus, "Be it our care and concern to go even unto Bethlehem, and to hear again the message of the angels" would probably translate as "Hey man! Let's think about Jesus being born to a virgin for a moment or two." It loses something in translation I suspect!! IN REALITY, absolutely nothing has changed, and all we have is the decimation of art. So we are now not only unenlightened, we are now also uninspired!! WHEN I see a church acknowledge that it KNOWS NOTHING, and that the Bible is NOT a book of fact, then I may start to take it seriously. The "plain popular language" movement, and the imposition of "simple music" have taken much away, but contributed nothing other than a third-rate "modern counter-reformation" which, IMHO is utterly doomed. Perhaps if a church finally emerges which can shed its reliance upon "mystery", "magic" and "superstition", and replace it with "peace", "charity", "justice" and "hope", then I may feel compelled to listen and take note. In the meantime, most of those whom I see, appear to be little more than false prophets from a forgotten age. I suspect that they have a long way to go, before they can draw humanism and christianity together into a happy co-existence...........and even then, we'll all still know nothing!! Regards, Colin Mitchell UK > > > > > --- email@example.com wrote: > > In the first instance, a legitimate distrust of > the > > government turned > > into wholesale iconoclasm on every front. There is > a > > definite dividing > > line in the clergy: priests who went to seminary > > BEFORE 1960, and > > priests who went to seminary AFTER 1960, both > Roman > > and Anglican. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/
(back) Subject: Diane Bish Organ Concert From: <Icedad@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 17:45:57 EST Organ Concert Diane Bish, the First Lady of the Organ, will present an Organ Concert on Sunday, Jan. 18, 2004, at 3:30 PM at Our Lady of Hope Catholic Church, = Port Orange, Florida. Miss Bish will perform on an Allen Renaissance 80 Stop Three-Manual custom = digital/pipe instrument, which includes a newly installed Trumpet en = Chamade and eight ranks of Rieger-Kloss pipes. The concert is sponsored by Dunne Music Company, Orlando, and Our Lady of Hope Music Ministry. $10.00 General Admission. Information: 386-788-6144, = ext. 27.
(back) Subject: Re: Young church musicians (was RCs and Anglicans) From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 18:47:01 EST Colin Mitchell wrote: <snip> >I abandoned professional music in favour of a career >in the world of commerce/finance, and I know of one >cathedral assistant who ended up in insurance in the >City of London. > >I am always very grateful that a very broad education >beyond music, enabled me to make the switch >successfully. > >Of course, finding an alternative means of employment >does mean that music suffers. However, it does mean >that whatever time is left for music tends to be >quality time, and hugely enjoyable. I have personally >never regretted the switch, once I gained the >repertoire of the legal/financial world and carved out >a good career. <snip> I, for one, chose to leave full time church work, for a variety of reasons--many of you on the list here know the story--and go back to = school to become a funeral director. For several years, I chose not to hold down a = "permanent" church position, rather just doing substitute or interim work, so I wasn't = confined to a bench. I got multiple calls each week from different = churches to play--I could have played at 3 or 4 churches on any given Sunday, if it = was possible for me to be in several places at the same time. After about a = year, I had recovered from burn-out enough to consider taking a regular position, = but I liked the flexibility that substitute positions gave me, plus, I didn't = have to deal with church politics--I walked in, I played, I walked out with a check. I had all the enjoyment of playing, all the benefits of playing, = and none of the headaches. I finally was worn down by a church to take a permanent position about a = year and a half ago, and unfortunately, a lot of the things I was promised = there, were not lived up to on the church's end, so at the end of my 6 month = "trial" period, I chose to leave on friendly terms. I accepted the permanent = position where I had been the interim for about 2 1/2 years, and am much happier. = The great thing about having a "real" job and a church job is that I have a steady salary and a great side income. My "full time" job, while it pays = a full time salary, takes about 25-30 hours a week, so when coupled with my = church position, still only puts me at working 40 or so hours a week. The down = side is that I really only have one true day off a week, so if friends want to go = out of town or if want to do anything, I have to go on a Friday and Saturday, = so I can be back for Sunday morning. My question to Colin, however, is why does the music suffer if a person = has a non-music job and a church position? I still practice. I play for a = local community choir. I play for weddings, funerals and other special services = at many local area churches, in addition to doing concerts around the country = and playing for some organ companies and a carillon bellfoundry. I probably = do more music now than I did when I was in full-time music, because my = schedule allows me to play more. If anything, my music has gotten better because = I'm forced to keep an steady practice schedule, whereas before, I would waltz = in and just pop off some organ piece that I had been playing since college. I = now work to keep them up, but the benefit is accuracy and musicianship. At = least in my case, the music hasn't suffered because I'm not working in full time = music. I enjoy my music so much more these days. I chose to do it now, I don't = have to do it. When music became a chore, I knew I was getting burned out. Having the huge instrument at Calvary to play wasn't even fun, it was just = a job. It got to the point where I dreaded having to go play the noontime = recitals. Church services were dreadful. The church politics totally ruined what = could have been a great experience, but I know I'm better off for leaving and = going to mortuary school. I'm happier, my stress level is down, I've got a = great job at a funeral home, my boss is flexible with my church schedule, and = I've got a fantastic church job where I'm happy and the organ is appreciated. What = more could I ask for? Monty Bennett
(back) Subject: RE: Organists Shoes From: "Glenda" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:40:15 -0600 To prevent separation anxiety, I carry my organ shoes in the car at all times. That way I'm at least sitting near them. The Organmasters are probably better built, but the Tic Tac Toes have a more stylish cut. Can't play without them. That's another story somewhere in the archives. Glenda Sutton email@example.com (didn't wear them while transplanting roses and spreading cow manure compost around the rose bushes today - what a wonderful day) still on my second pair----no separation nothing in 15 years!!!!!!! i stand by em anyway. dale in florida
(back) Subject: Organists and Compensation From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 17:42:56 -0600 Statistically, the average congregation in the US has an attendance of = well UNDER 100 on a Sunday morning. Many of these congregations cannot afford = a full-time pastor, much less an organist. With rising costs of utilities, health insurance, etc., the situation is getting steadily more difficult financially for small churches, not better. And, like it or not, most church musicians in this country are (and, I think, always have been,) volunteer. Great Aunt Minnie and Uncle Fred and little Cousin Johnny bravely do the best they can, and ought to be = commended for so doing. On top of that, most congregations do not have a heritage of "fine music." The denomination of my youth has over 500 congregations in the state of Indiana; due to previous positions, I've probably been in 200 of those congregations and can count on the fingers of one hand the number that had pipe organs. There were--and are--a plethora of Hammond C-3's, Baldwin Orgasonic Spinets, and that ilk. Musical performance--organ or other--is not an easy way to make a living. Check the salary scales of ordinary symphony orchestras! We can wish it were not so--and work hard to improve it--but that is the reality out there. Dennis Steckley Who is Pastor of a church of 400 members, and the ONLY organist of any = sort in the whole church, except for one lady confined to a nursing home.
(back) Subject: Re: Organists Shoes From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 18:56:11 -0500 Dear Tina, Andrew, and List, I don't know very many who play without shoes, but I can tell you that = English concert Organist and composer David Liddle always plays in = stocking feet, and there is NOTHING that he cannot play. David is blind, = and says he began playing in stocking feet as it saved him lots of time = trying to figure out where his shoes were! There are several CDs of his = playing* that are fully convincing. I myself am fully dependent on my = shoes. *There is one Priory recording at Hull City Hall - music of Alfred = Hollins. *There are two recordings on the Guild Label, both done at St. Ignatius = Loyola, New York. Cheers, Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andrew Barss=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: Re: Organists Shoes Hi Tina, There are some organists -- even (so I was once told) concert = organists! -- who would prefer playing in stocking feet to wearing = shoes. Personally, I bought a pair of organ-master shoes in the early 80s and = can't imagine playing the pedals without them. Organ shoes provide great = support, and control over the pedals. It's probably realistic to say = that the vast majority of organists prefer playing with appropriate = footwear. Regards, Andrew Barss Halifax, Nova Scotia On Thursday, January 1, 2004, at 02:14 PM, chemphill wrote: uh, I am suppose to wear shoes? Tina
(back) Subject: Re: Organists Shoes ... NEXT! (grin) From: "David Evangelides" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 16:17:07 -0800 I have a pair of Florsheim patent leather slip-ons bought when I married in the early 70's when patents were popular. I liked them so much that I reserve them for organ playing. The width of the sole is narrow to avoid hitting 3 pedals. Sole is real leather and thin. Heel is about 1", and the fit gives good support On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 2:01pm, Alicia Zeilenga wrote: > I've never worn Capezios to play the organ . One thing I have noticed > with Leo > character shoes -I have some at home and I use them when I forget my > OMs- > is that the heel is small enough that it gets stuck between the pedals. > > Alicia Zeilenga > Sub-Dean AGO@UI > "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis" > > -----Original Message----- > From: email@example.com > >> I'll add my two cents' worth, though, since I'm here (grin) ... I had >> a >> pair of Capezio tap shoes that lasted from 1962 till 2003 (!), at >> which >> point I tossed them in the trash and retired (chuckle), and I played >> EVERY DAY for most of those forty-one years. >> >> Bud David E David Evangelides Fulfillment Manager International Bible Society Colorado Springs, CO 80921
(back) Subject: Organists Shoes From: "Patricia/Thomas Gregory" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 18:21:44 -0600 Greetings and Happy New Year: Being "semi-retired" after playing over 40 years, I have worn out (or = lost) three pairs of shoes. Pairs # 1 & 2 were Organ Master. Pair #3 are Tic Tac Toes. Organ Master were fine shoes, but I like the raised heel on Tic Tac Toes. Best wishes to all for a great New Year. Tom Gregory p.s. After playing 12 services and many rehearsals in Dec., time for a break. My wife & I leave for Paris/Brussels to visit our AFS son(s) = Staffan & Vincent. We hope to attend services at St. Sulpice on Jan 11. Does anyone know if there will be a recital at Notra Dame that Sunday? -- Thomas Gregory 716 West College Avenue Waukesha WI USA 53186-4569
(back) Subject: clearing house From: <DavidL1205@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 19:28:11 EST Pardon me if I have not read something important in the journals, but why = is the organ clearing house web site down? David Lowry 1829 Senate Street, 14C Columbia, SC 29201-3838 DavidL1205@aol.com
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4188 - 01/01/04 From: <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 19:32:24 -0500 >Subject: Re: Young church musicians (was RCs and Anglicans) >From: "bobelms" <firstname.lastname@example.org> >From the responses to my post that I have seen I don't really think the points I was making got through.Let me clarify: > >1. The Vatican II and the Anglican Hierarchy have nothing at all to do with my denomination which is a union of Methodist, Presbyterian and Congregational.> You're very lucky. In the USA, all denominations seem to be trying to see who can ape whom better. In the Southern Baptist church I serve we do Communion using the text from the 1979 Book of Common Prayer; we even have a Communion service on the first Sunday of each month!! <5. IN 99% of the churches there is not the work for an organist full time or even half time.> Does no one else consider practicing and learning literature to play on Sunday, as well as hymns and anthems, to be the work of an organist? Scritchies and Haruffaroo-bahawow... Bruce and the Baskerbeagles http://baskerbeagles.com a great way to shop http://www.smartmall.biz?717886 HELP FEED ANIMALS FOR FREE http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and = http://pets.care2.com
(back) Subject: Re: Organists Shoes From: "Shirley" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:52:08 -0500 I'm one of those who played for too many years in stockinged feet. Then I = graduated to ballet slippers. During the next year, I'll *have* to learn = to play in real shoes. I need a wide width, thanks to bunions. I see Organmaster offers their = shoes in wide, but do you think that wider shoes will hinder my ability to play = passages that involve close pedalling (lots of half-steps, e.g.)? --Shirley, wanting to order the gold ones, but will stay with classic = black.
(back) Subject: Re: Bulletins From: "Shirley" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:52:07 -0500 On 31 Dec 2003 at 23:12, Alan Freed wrote: > On 12/31/03 4:25 PM, "Shirley" <email@example.com> wrote: > > > "Hey, *I'LL* be a worship aide if you're paying!" > > If they have a praise band, you could even be a Band-Aid! Heh. Not a praze band, but a choir called "Daybreak". Fun group. And I *have* aided (and abetted!) on occasion. > > Hey, Shirley--congratulations and best wishes on you . . . uh . . . > "retirement"??? It's a "breather", methinks..... --Shirley
(back) Subject: Re: Organists and Compensation From: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:19:29 -0800 First Christian Church of Casey, IL wrote: > Statistically, the average congregation in the US has an attendance of = well > UNDER 100 on a Sunday morning. Many of these congregations cannot = afford a > full-time pastor, much less an organist. With rising costs of = utilities, > health insurance, etc., the situation is getting steadily more difficult > financially for small churches, not better. But until recently, at least, most of those churches supported a full-time pastor and a parsonage. > > And, like it or not, most church musicians in this country are (and, I > think, always have been,) volunteer. Great Aunt Minnie and Uncle Fred = and > little Cousin Johnny bravely do the best they can, and ought to be = commended > for so doing. Yes and no. Depends on denomination and area. Episcopalians and Roman Catholics in the East and Midwest had the highest number of full-time positions in 1900; they also had the highest number of PAID CHOIRS. > > On top of that, most congregations do not have a heritage of "fine = music." > The denomination of my youth has over 500 congregations in the state of > Indiana; due to previous positions, I've probably been in 200 of those > congregations and can count on the fingers of one hand the number that = had > pipe organs. There were--and are--a plethora of Hammond C-3's, Baldwin > Orgasonic Spinets, and that ilk. I presume you're speaking of a middle-of-the-road protestant denomination ... Disciples, maybe? In central Florida where I grew up, just about every OLD church, protestant OR Catholic, had a pipe organ ... Moller and Skinner made sweeps through Florida during the real estate boom in the 1920s; Schantz and Wicks were next, after WWII ... the rest were a delightfully eclectic Heinz 57 ... Hope-Jones (!), Aeolian, Frazee, Midmer-Losh (!!), Estey, Kimball, etc. They all worked; the churches maintained them; the "organ man" came around twice a year, before Christmas and before Easter; there were people to play them, mostly women, mostly piano teachers. They weren't great organs or great organists, but Miss Pet Harper at Holy Episcopal Church could find her way through Solemn Mass; so could Mrs. Greenawalt over at St. Thomas RC Church; Mrs. Addie Wood could get through Messiah, the Seven Last Words, and The Crucifixion over at Mulberry Methodist; Miss Margaret Clark (my distant cousin and the high school choral director) could get through Schubert's Great is Jehovah the Lord and his 23rd Psalm at the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church; First Southern Baptist had a THREE-manual Moller, and a FULL-TIME minister of music as early as 1950 ... and this was in a town of 12,000 souls. And MOST of those places, when it came time to restore/replace, either restored what they had, or bought another pipe organ. Mulberry Methodist in particular was NOT a wealthy church; their organ was a second-hand Estey Model L, got from First Methodist in Bartow when THEY got a second-hand Aeolian. The Estey served for about eighty years total; when Mulberry built a new church, the Women's Society ponied up GENERATIONS of butter and egg money they'd been saving TO BUY A NEW PIPE ORGAN. And the Estey was replaced with a Skinner unit organ. This wasn't a wealthy area ... it was a string of little phosphate mining towns. > > Musical performance--organ or other--is not an easy way to make a = living. > Check the salary scales of ordinary symphony orchestras! Um, I'd LOVE to make what orchestras around here pay for starting scale .... it runs $40K-$50K WITH benefits and pension. I never made that IN MY LIFE playing the organ. > > We can wish it were not so--and work hard to improve it--but that is the > reality out there. And as long as people ACCEPT that reality, it will continue. > > Dennis Steckley > Who is Pastor of a church of 400 members, and the ONLY organist of any = sort > in the whole church, except for one lady confined to a nursing home. > I will say one thing for St. Matthew's ... they TITHED. Less than 200 members raised over $5 million to buy the land and build the new church. It took them ten years, but they did it. They were also exceptional in that we SAW 150-175 of those two hundred EVERY SUNDAY (!). Churches call me looking for organists; the first thing I ask them is if they're willing to pay for piano and/or organ lessons for promising youngsters; I also point out to them that I held down my first post (in a HIGH Episcopal Church) at age TEN. They think I'm CRAZY on ALL counts. "What!? Put out MONEY to train organists??!! You've got to be KIDDING!!!" 'Nuff said. I've always been of the "can do" mentality. Nobody ever TOLD me I couldn't do Gounod's Messe Solenelle with a volunteer choir; I just DID it. LOTS of people told me I couldn't raise the money for new pipe organs; I just DID it. When Newport Beach (which had the cash in hand) started whimpering about $400K for 30 ranks (!), I said, "look, I don't care if you have to have a bake sale at my FUNERAL ... we can DO THIS." They finally chose not to. Their loss. Cheers, Bud
(back) Subject: Re: Organists Shoes From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 20:18:20 EST Well, I saw Donald Busarow (one summer at Montreat, NC) play a whole week = of services in a pair of crepe-soled suede shoes!! when he played adjacent toe-toe passages, his one foot would be waaay back on the naturals, so = Organmaster Wides should not present a big problem for close-in pedalling, tho you may = have to be a bit (um) 'creative' in your foot placements from time to time. = FWIW, I have organmaster regulars, and even they can get in the way on some pedalbaords, especailly the german-style flat pedalboards in vogue with = some of the 'boutique' builders. Rick in VA
(back) Subject: RE: Organists Shoes From: "Glenda" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:12:50 -0600 Go for the gold, Shirley - live a little. Glenda Sutton firstname.lastname@example.org -----Original Message----- From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] On Behalf Of Shirley Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 6:52 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Organists Shoes I'm one of those who played for too many years in stockinged feet. Then I graduated to ballet slippers. During the next year, I'll *have* to learn to play in real shoes. I need a wide width, thanks to bunions. I see Organmaster offers their shoes in wide, but do you think that wider shoes will hinder my ability to play passages that involve close pedalling (lots of half-steps, e.g.)? --Shirley, wanting to order the gold ones, but will stay with classic black.
(back) Subject: Re: Organists Shoes From: "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:25:34 -0600 Glenda wrote: > > (didnt wear them while transplanting roses and spreading cow manure > compost around the rose bushes today > I should hope not. There's no saying what that stuff would do if it got onto the contacts under the pedals. I know of one case where a pedalboard was completely wrecked by a small boy throwing up on it. John Speller
(back) Subject: Re: clearing house From: "John L. Speller" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:28:58 -0600 It's working fine for me. John Speller 7:31 PM 01/01/04 DavidL1205@aol.com wrote: >Pardon me if I have not read something important in the journals, but why = is >the organ clearing house web site down? > > >
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4188 - 01/01/04 From: "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:31:05 -0600 firstname.lastname@example.org wrote: > In the Southern >Baptist church I serve we do Communion using the text from >the 1979 Book of Common Prayer; we even have a Communion >service on the first Sunday of each month!! > Well, Bruce, speaking as an Episcopalian, I would say that imitation was the sincerest form of flattery. John Speller St. Mark's Episcopal Church, St. Louis www.saintmarks-stl.org
(back) Subject: Re: Organists Shoes From: "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:34:17 -0600 Shirley wrote: >I'm one of those who played for too many years in stockinged feet. Then = I >graduated to ballet slippers. During the next year, I'll *have* to learn = to play in >real shoes. > >I need a wide width, thanks to bunions. I see Organmaster offers their = shoes in >wide, but do you think that wider shoes will hinder my ability to play = passages that >involve close pedalling (lots of half-steps, e.g.)? > > I think it was Conrad Eden, organist of Durham Cathedral in the North of England back in the 1950's who, when being asked by a new student what shoes he should wear to play the organ, went out, came back wearing a pair of hobnail boots, and played the Toccata in F by Bach faultlessly from memory. John Speller
(back) Subject: Re: Organists Shoes From: <FastToccata@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 21:45:05 EST My size from Organmaster is with a wide width and I don't have any problem = at all. The shoes feel very comfortable.