PipeChat Digest #4201 - Tuesday, January 6, 2004
  by "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com>
Re: hymn tune "New Jerusalem"
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Incurable Romantics
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
extreme examples from the 60's and 70's
  by "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com>
Re: The Eight Little
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Re: hymn tune "New Jerusalem"
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>

(back) Subject: ORGANIST FOUND From: "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:34:48 -0800   I'm elated to report that I have just found exactly what I had asked for ---- a very good, local organist who is willing to attend all the rehearsals and play for the performance, at the rate offered. And he wants to do it for "all the right reasons." He said he had not accompanied a big choral work in a long time and it would be a real treat to play the Dubois.   Best off all, we have talked on the phone already and "hit it off" right off the bat -- I can tell that he's going to be a joy to work with ---- and, to me, a good rapport is as important as someone's being able to show up and play the notes.   His name is Jay Rogers; is the organist-director at First Lutheran in Manhattan Beach CA.   ~ C        
(back) Subject: Re: hymn tune "New Jerusalem" From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 21:02:58 -0600     ----- Original Message ----- From: <quilisma@cox.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 1:43 PM Subject: Re: hymn tune "New Jerusalem"     > What's not generally understood about Blake's text is that it uses a > literary convention of the English metaphysical poets, as well as Latin > poets: the CONCEIT, in which the reader is EXPECTED to answer in the > negative. Readers of Virgil, etc. would have been familiar with the > convention. > > Q - And did those feet in ancient times Walk upon England's mountains green? > A - Nope. Never happened. > > Q- And was the holy Lamb of God On England's pleasant pastures seen? > A- Nope. Not in THIS reality. > > Etc. > > There have been various interpretations of the poem over the years ... > for a long time it was thought that the lines > > And was Jerusalm builded her Among those dark satanic mills? > > were a protest against sweat-shops, child labour, etc. > > The punch-line comes in the second verse: > > I will not cease from mental fight, Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand, > Till we have built Jerusalem In England's green and pleasant land. > > Which would seem to give a larger interpretation than the one above.   This is my understanding of it too.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: Incurable Romantics From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:05:06 EST   Del Case wrote: >I have no doubt that if Bach were alive today he would make maximum use >of the best >of modern organ building. (Whether that is Schoenstein, or Rosales, or >Fisk, or, or, >or, or, is subject to debate.)   >HOWEVER, if Bach were alive today he would not be composing Baroque >trio =   sonatas, >Baroque preludes and fugues, Baroque chorale preludes, etc. He would be >composing >in his version of A style of our day. Notice, A style, not THE style of >today, since >there are so many streams.   I don't disagree with this at all, however with all the modern advances in =   organbuilding, Bach would be pushing the limits of compositional = techniques because of what the organ can do today. I think it would probably be = quite amazing (and probably frightening) what he could do if he were alive = today. I would venture to guess that Bach would probably make Virgil Fox look = rather tame--and I am rather positive (pardon the pun) that Bach would bring in = the same kind of crowds that Virgil did. The organ would be a popular = instrument because it wouldn't be such an esoteric instrument like it has been made = to be by many or the people playing it today.   >While I have certainly heard some extreme examples from the 60's and >70's, I have >never heard of an instrument such as you describe above. In response to my rather exaggerated example of extreme neo-baroque organ building styles, I have played a couple of organs that were built in the = style I described. I've had to play services on them and I've had to play = recitals on them. Needless to say, it was not enjoyable. Try playing anything of interest on a one manual neo-baroque organ that didn't have any divided = stops, so solo possibilities were out of the question, unless it was the 4' flute accompanying itself or the 4' principal doing the same. The 8' gedeckt = was too chiffy and quinty in the bass to accompany itself. The 1/4 length reed = sounded like a tuned duck call. I should also note that there are no mutations on = this organ, either. The Mixture was so high pitched that it was not really = usable, since the whole chorus was built upon an 8' Nason Gedeckt. The consultant = who designed that organ for the church should have been shot. This is in a = fairly large, well to do Catholic church in California. Sure the church has a = pipe organ, but it's all but unuseable. While in college, I also played = another organ along the same lines. Everything chiffed so much, it sounded like I = had a Xylophone playing along with the organ. The mixtures were so high = pitched that they didn't blend. I was told "but that is how baroque organs are." = My response was "that is how broken organs are." I don't claim that any = style of building is better than another. I have my preferences, obviously, but = having heard and played some wonderful old tracker organs, those organs don't resemble the travesties that were inflicted on us during the "organ = reform" era one bit.   Monty Bennett    
(back) Subject: extreme examples from the 60's and 70's From: "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:05:37 -0800   Del W. Case said,   =3D-> While I have certainly heard some extreme examples from the 60's and 70's, I have never heard of an instrument such as you describe above. <-=3D     Haven't played many Schlickers, eh?   Or any number of instruments "lovingly hand-crafted" by certain "boutique" tracker builders who, in their heyday, were building the screechiest, most-flatulent-sounding, wind-wobblingest instruments that the human hand could produce.   Then there are the countless noble old instruments that were hacked up in the name of progress -- Clarinets thrown out on behalf of farting Krummhorns, Dulcianas discarded to make room for dog-distressing Klein-terz's, Viola da gambas melted down to make way for ear-piercing Shriemixturs, Doppelflutes chopped up in favor of coughing Pommergedackts, Diapasons shoved aside to make the way for gurgling Erdrosseltprinzipals.   Along with the accompanying brutalities of throwing out those "unnecessary" schwimmers and wind stabilizers, lowering wind pressures by a factor of 70-80%; disconnecting tremulants and swell boxes, heaving chimes and harps into the rubbish heap. And so it went.   Now, here we are on the other side of the pendulum crying many tears, waxing philosophically, gnashing teeth with deep regret, blaming the trendsetters (depending on who's discussing the pillaging), because so many fine organs were butchered and destroyed. And by some of the finest and greatest organ builders who ever wrapped their white-knuckled fingers around a voicing tool.   What a mystery it all is, really.   ~ C    
(back) Subject: Re: The Eight Little From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 00:30:19 EST   > Says so much in such littlespace.   I think this is precisely why the Eight are so delightful. That fact = alone (the above quote) should affirm Bach as the composer, no?   Neil Brown    
(back) Subject: Re: hymn tune "New Jerusalem" From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 00:50:44 EST   In a message dated 1/5/2004 7:16:07 PM Central Standard Time, cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk writes:   "Jerusalem" is the most ridiculous ditty, and for those who may wish to share the joke, his reference to "dark, satanic mills" was an oblique reference to schools, colleges and universities! What scholarly source/treatise sets forth this bit of "truth?"