PipeChat Digest #4212 - Sunday, January 11, 2004
 
Re: Funerals in the FH vs. the church
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Nested swell boxes?
  by "Martin Dyde" <martin.dyde@hauptwerk.co.uk>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4211 - 01/11/04
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: swell boxes
  by "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Nested Swell Boxes
  by "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net>
Re: Nested swell boxes?
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
Re: swell boxes
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: swell boxes
  by "black" <gblack@ocslink.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4211 - 01/11/04
  by "Frances Meyers" <jack-fran1@cox.net>
Tuben III rks.
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: swell boxes--swell couplers
  by "Wm. G. Chapman" <wchapmn@attglobal.net>
St. Catharine Organ
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Funeral music
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Philadelphia Organ 4tet? (x-posted)
  by "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>
Re: St. Catharine Organ
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Nested swell boxes
  by "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com>
Re: Nested swell boxes
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
Immanuel Pres, Los Angeles
  by "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com>
A Potential Tragedy ... Proposed "Updating" of an Intact E.M. Skinner...?
  by "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com>
Re: Immanuel Pres, Los Angeles - correction
  by "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com>
Ringling organ
  by <MFoxy9795@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Funerals in the FH vs. the church From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:58:09 EST   As a funeral director and an organist, I'm going to address this off topic =   issue that Glenda brings up in her thread...   Glenda wrote:   >I wonder what the difference in charges is for church service vs. >funeral home? > >I'm thrilled to find a funeral home with a grand piano - there's hope >for a pipe organ yet.     Every funeral home has their own charges, but 95% of them will have pretty =   much the same charges for "Use of Staff and Equipment for Funeral Service" = (that is a heading that the FTC makes all funeral homes use) whether or not the service is at the funeral home or at a church or at a cemetery or a = memorial service at Granny's nursing home. At least at our funeral home, we send = out the same amount of staff to do a service, so it's the same amount of work for = us, so we are going to charge the same where ever we go to do a service.   As to instruments (to get this back on topic) we have a pipe organ in our funeral home. A 1939 Wicks Fuga Deluxe that is in fantastic shape and = while only a few ranks is actually a lot of fun to play. We have all the original paperwork pertaining to the organ, including the original contract. My = boss bought the organ used from a church back in the 1980's when they sold it off = because they were getting a new 25 rank Schantz. www.nortonfuneralofcheraw.com = go to the facilities page and scroll down, you'll see the little organ there.     Monty Bennett    
(back) Subject: Re: Nested swell boxes? From: "Martin Dyde" <martin.dyde@hauptwerk.co.uk> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:49:19 -0000   Thanks, dear chatters.   Very useful. There seems to be a unanimous opinion that such things do = exist!   All the best, Martin Dyde http://www.hauptwerk.co.uk/  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4211 - 01/11/04 From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:47:47 +0000 (GMT)   Poor old "Immanuel Presbyterian Church L.A."! It is difficult to see from the photos on the site exactly what the Church is like - I mean, one would have to go there to sample it in all its glory - but pastiche and imitation has been around for a long time. OK. This may be a bit OTT, but at least they are out there and doing something! Inevitably, when someone says something is absolutely dreadful men have a perverse urge to go and see it - Florence Foster Jenkins, for example. When I go Down Under in September I have a hankering after "Ned Kelly's Last Stand" as described by Bill Bryson in one of his more recent offerings ... "I have never seen anything so wonderfully, so delightfully, so monumentally bad as this! Actually, it was so bad it was worth every penny."   Bill H. wrote "This website is, perhaps, the most appalling thing I've seen in some time." John Foss   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : Prison sentences - Ronnie Biggs Line from Plati   ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html  
(back) Subject: Re: swell boxes From: "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:34:22 -0600   Hi, Gary, et al: You wrote: > HI list, Is it my imagination or is there a swell box > in the swell box that houses an 8' tromba in the Skinner > organ at the Congregational Church in Evanston, Il?... Someone care to tell us how the swell within a swell is controlled? Two expression shoes? F. Richard Burt     ..  
(back) Subject: Nested Swell Boxes From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 08:49:06 -0500   Posters,   Schoenstein does this with reeds and solo stops. See "Organ Design and = the Kraft Music Hall" in "The Diapason", October 2002, pages 18-21.   This particular article is about Orchestral Organs and how Schoenstein = faced a challenge of producing some with a minimal number of ranks.   One element of their approach was to place some loud reeds as well as the Vox Humana into their own swell box within another divisional swell box. This gave much more expression. The reeds could be used to add fullness = by keeping their box barely open while the larger box was fully open. Then, = the reed box could be gradually opened bringing in the "fire" or whatever you want to call it.   The article was at least worth reading for this amateur.   Sincerely, Keith Zimmerman      
(back) Subject: Re: Nested swell boxes? From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:55:33 -0800 (PST)   Hi Martin, I've played organs with this feature. Usually this is done to obtain = variations in loudness while still having the pipes enclosed in the second = box rather generous in scale. A large Austin built in 1929 had an ECHO = division which was the embedded 2nd Swell. Schoenstein has done this = within the past 12 months having large scale strings in the 2nd Swell. In = this way it is possible to have the same set of pipes do double duty. I think this was done as a cost saving measure, and would think you can = forget about it. Matt PS When are those English Romantic (Liverpool ???) sample libraries coming = to Haupwork ???? Matt     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes  
(back) Subject: Re: swell boxes From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:00:09 EST   In a message dated 1/11/2004 8:38:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, effarbee@verizon.net writes: Someone care to tell us how the swell within a swell is controlled? Two expression shoes? Yes.   In the case of a "solo" division placed as a "box witin a box" such as the =   Schoenstein organs already cited (not to mention the wonderful example at = St. Paul's, K Street, Washington DC) there is a seperate shoe, just as if the = solo division voices were in their own seperate chamber (which is actually the = case, but with the added ability to "cage the beast" as it were, by closing the Swell division shades with the Solo shades open.   Rick in VA    
(back) Subject: Re: swell boxes From: "black" <gblack@ocslink.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:39:30 -0600   HI, yes, two expression shoes. ----- Original Message ----- From: "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:34 AM Subject: Re: swell boxes     > Hi, Gary, et al: > > You wrote: > > > HI list, Is it my imagination or is there a swell box > > in the swell box that houses an 8' tromba in the Skinner > > organ at the Congregational Church in Evanston, Il?... > > Someone care to tell us how the swell within a swell is > controlled? Two expression shoes? > > F. Richard Burt > > > . > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4211 - 01/11/04 From: "Frances Meyers" <jack-fran1@cox.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:56:19 -0800   At an AGO Regional many years ago, we were at Immanuel Pres for a concert. = I asked an organ builder friend what was the style of the architecture. He replied, I think it is called 'Early Awful'."   ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 4:47 AM Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4211 - 01/11/04     > Poor old "Immanuel Presbyterian Church L.A."! It is > difficult to see from the photos on the site exactly >      
(back) Subject: Tuben III rks. From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 10:10:02 -0800   This has turned up on some of the big Schoensteins; now I see it on the big Letourneau for Houston. As I understand it, if you have INDEPENDENT tuba ranks at 16-8-4, drawing the Tuben III causes all THREE ranks to play the SAME pitch.   Has anyone heard it?   What is the effect?   Is it worth the expense?       Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: RE: swell boxes--swell couplers From: "Wm. G. Chapman" <wchapmn@attglobal.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:40:16 -0500   Someone care to tell us how the swell within a swell is=20 controlled? Two expression shoes? =20 F. Richard Burt   I can add to the me too: In the case of the Cadet Chapel there are four Swell Shoes and Swell Couplers so that you can choose what works for you = and wherever it may be more comfortable. (Within reason.)   Wm. G. Chapman Associate Curator of Organs USMA      
(back) Subject: St. Catharine Organ From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:52:49 -0600   Bud said: "It used to be somewhat common ... the 3m Vottler-Holtkamp-Sparling formerly in St. Catharine of Siena Church, Cincinnati, had the Choir and   Swell boxes in the bell tower, one BEHIND the other. The Choir spoke ONLY through the back of the Swell box.."   That church, btw, had a 1967 Schantz (maybe it replaced the organ Bud knew about) which was greatly reworked about a year ago by Buzard. Several of the old ranks were sold off. I purchased the 16' Dulzian and 8' Fagott for a future project.   Dennis Steckley      
(back) Subject: Funeral music From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:07:16 -0500   On 1/10/04 10:48 PM, "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> wrote:   > Many times the funeral home personnel find it more convenient to recommen= d > their establishment.   Oh, THAT's for sure. Starting with grade-level entrance, etc. Less driving, fewer personnel, etc. >=20 > I wonder what the difference in charges is for church service vs. > funeral home?   My experience was always "no difference." Because the mortician knows what side his bread is buttered on. If he charges more for a service in the church, surely NO pastor is going to recommend him/her. And if the mortician doesn't KNOW that, the pastor should TELL him so. >=20 > I'm thrilled to find a funeral home with a grand piano -   THAT's true. Could be the best piano there IS in some towns.   > there's hope for a pipe organ yet.   Well, fine; but if I were a mortician I think I'd find it harder to buy the cost of a pipe organ in my overhead than to bury the cost of personnel and vehicle use in that overhead--and just do funerals in the churches unless the family prefers otherwise. >=20 > Alan, in most of the fundamentalist Protestant churches down here, hymns > are not sung during funerals. Any music is instrumental or solo singer.   That's sad. Singing (solo or group) at the funeral is very therapeutic, an= d the hired soloist (or any other) doesn't NEED the therapy. The community does. And that=B9s (pretty much) the purpose of the gathering.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Philadelphia Organ 4tet? (x-posted) From: "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:17:52 -0500   Hi, folks --   Do any of you know if the Philadelphia Organ Quartet is still around? = This 4tet consisted of Peter Conte, Michael Stairs, Rudy Lucente, and Colin (don't remember his last name - he's a former organist at Coral Ridge). They = used whatever organ(s) were available in a performance hall and added Allens to =   complete the foursome.   I've never heard them, but with that crew, a program HAS to be a lot of = fun.   Anybody hear about or attended a concert by them recently?   TIA.   --Shirley    
(back) Subject: Re: St. Catharine Organ From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:40:23 -0800   The Schantz did indeed replace the V-H-S; my classmate who designed it, the late Michael Mantz, left St. Catharine's for a post in NYC before the project was completed; the Schantz was never completely successful. Another classmate, Rick Foegler, oversaw the rebuild by Buzard ... virtually all the principal choruses and chorus reeds were replaced, and some of the flutes.   Cheers,   Bud   First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois wrote:   > Bud said: "It used to be somewhat common ... the 3m > Vottler-Holtkamp-Sparling > formerly in St. Catharine of Siena Church, Cincinnati, had the Choir and > > Swell boxes in the bell tower, one BEHIND the other. The Choir spoke > ONLY through the back of the Swell box.." > > That church, btw, had a 1967 Schantz (maybe it replaced the organ Bud > knew about) which was greatly reworked about a year ago by Buzard. > Several of the old ranks were sold off. I purchased the 16' Dulzian and > 8' Fagott for a future project. > > Dennis Steckley > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Nested swell boxes From: "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:10:46 -0800   This idea was heartily promoted by turn-of-the-century organ "architect" G. Ashdown Audsley -- who, it seems, charged by the pound for his books! Many of his ideas and concepts were revolutionary, some of them amusing, and a large portion of them downright cockamamie.   Some organs from that time, especially instruments that more or less followed his tonal concepts, did have double enclosures but it was not ever, as far as I know, done "per division" but, you know, each manual had its own swell and then the entire organ was enclosed inside a "master" swell box.   The only one of this nature that I ever played was the early 1920s Wangerin in St. Vibiana, the former Cathedral of Los Angeles. The organ had about 50-60 ranks or so with, by a large margin, mostly 8-foot stops. All the manual divisions were enclosed in their own swell box, then the entire instrument was enclosed in a large, common "Grand Swell." You could get some really remarkable effects -- drawing full organ with all the Swells closed, then ever so gradually opening the Grand Swell and then each of the individual Swells was quite electrifying. And the big solo stops, tubas etc., were very tame when held at bay with the swells; let loose with the shutters open, they became paint-peelers.   ~ C    
(back) Subject: Re: Nested swell boxes From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:56:19 -0600   Hi, all --   The organ now under construction for First Presbyterian in Little Rock = will have its Solo Tuba Mirabilis under independent expression, speaking into/through the Choir/Solo enclosure. Or, at least I *think* that's why = I built an extra swell engine...! ;-) ;-)   See http://www.nicholsandsimpson.com/first1.htm for stoplist and pic of = the console shell in the shop.   Cheers all,   Tim    
(back) Subject: Immanuel Pres, Los Angeles From: "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:01:46 -0800   Immanuel Presbyterian is actually a beautiful church building. I don't know how "high Hollywood Schtick" the architecture is, not being an architect, but it is lovely.   It is listed on an historic preservation site as a "1929 cast stone French Gothic building with an English Gothic interior, designed by Chauncey Skilling of Patterson and Skilling." The site further notes that the building is in substandard condition on many counts.   (See http://www.sacredplaces.org/Press/endangered2001.htm)   The sanctuary seats about 2500 I think, with theatre-style seating (main level, then large balcony wraps around 3 sides).   The sanctuary acoustics are dry - not totally dead but what a former organist called "unfortunate." Especially considering the room contains one of the few remaining extant E.M.Skinner organs -- and a large one at that, 4 manuals and 60-70 stops. When it was new it was a near-duplicate of the Skinner at Royce Hall, UCLA. The main differences were that the Immanuel instrument had a tiny Echo organ with Vox & Chimes; and the 32-foot flue is a Resultant. The UCLA had no echo, and the 32-foot is a real open wood diapason of enormous scale. The pipes lay long-wise above the proscenium arch! During the earthquake of 1994 the UCLA instrument was severely damaged. It was rebuilt and enlarged by Robert Turner. The current specifications can be seen on his website, www.turnerorgans.com   I imagine the Immanuel specs are on the net somewhere, if not, I can post them.   The Chichester Chapel, rather than being a "14th century" period organ, is actually a 2-manual Hradetzky of, hm, 10-11 stops that, for its size, makes quite a bold statement in the tiny chapel! The Great has a huge mixture of something like 8 or 10 ranks (sorry details are vague but I haven't been in there in nearly 20 years).   The other chapel, forget the name, has a typical mid 1960s Schlicker [e.g., thin-sounding quivering flues, screechy upperwork, and quacky fractional-length reeds] of 3 manuals and, hm, maybe 20 ranks or so. The pipes are chambered in the ceiling of the chancel.   Noted organists who have served at Immanuel include Clarence Mader and Samuel John Swartz (d.1994) - the latter was a very dear friend of mine. He was a brilliant musician and scholar. To get a look at his nature, read his compelling essay "The Grand Gesture" at http://www.hochhalter.com/page33.html.   Sam made two records at Immanuel, one of them an all-Bach record that featured the Skinner and the Hradetzky, demonstrating unequivocally that Bach is equally at home in either aesthetic. That is, when the organist knows WHAT TO DO in each case.......   ~ C      
(back) Subject: A Potential Tragedy ... Proposed "Updating" of an Intact E.M. Skinner...?? From: "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:11:52 -0800   When looking thru the Immanuel Website a little more closely, I found a very startling statement on this page of the site:   http://www.immanuelpres.org/worshiparts.htm   It says: "Refurbishing, renovating and upgrading of the organ" and is in a list of proposed tasks for choir members.   Well. This could be a real tragedy in the making inasmuch as, as I have already mentioned, the organ in question is an unaltered 1920s E.M.Skinner of about 60 ranks. When Sam Swartz was there he worked very hard to lay the foundation and mindset that the instrument must never be altered but, given its size and rarity, must be preserved intact.   Since Sam left Immanuel in the early 1990s, a dizzying succession of organists have come and gone, some of them very un-noteworthy. I don't know who is there now, but I surely do hope that the church has not forgotten Sam's vehement admonishments. But the term "upgrading the organ" makes one shake in ones Organmasters.   Does anyone know anything about this? Specifically, anyone at the OHS? If the church is indeed planning to "update" this rare masterpiece, is there any way that their plans can be stopped until they are examined and approved?   It would be a sad and dark day indeed if this organ were spoiled by "updating" it in any way.   ~ C      
(back) Subject: Re: Immanuel Pres, Los Angeles - correction From: "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:20:55 -0800   An editorial correction to my own post --- I should have said:   The main differences were that the Immanuel instrument had a tiny Echo organ with Vox & Chimes; and the 32-foot "Diapason" is a Resultant. The UCLA had no echo, and, while the 32-foot Diapason is still a Resultant, there is also a real open wood Subbass of enormous scale.      
(back) Subject: Ringling organ From: <MFoxy9795@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:55:34 -0500   While in Florida, I went to the Ringling Museum in Sarasota and saw the = now unplayable Aeolian organ in the Ringlings' house Ca' d'Zan and was = sent the following about it:   (also went to the Roaring 20s and heard (and saw) the Wurlitzer in action. = Great fun.)   > Merry Foxworth > > =B4=A8=A8)) -:=A6:- > =B8.=B7=B4 .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) > ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4 ..=B7=B4 -:=A6:- > > An excerpt from Robert Giddings "Musical Quotes and Anecdotes", > published in Longman Pocket Companions: > "There let the pealing organ blow, > To the full-voiced choir below, > In service high, and anthems clear, > As may with sweetness, through mine ear, > Dissolve me into ecstasies, > And bring all Heav'n before mine eyes". > John Milton - Il Penseroso (1632). > > Open Door Realty > Boston, MA 02131 > 617 469-4888 x207 > 877 865-1703 toll free > http://www.opendoorrlty.com/   > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sharon roth" <sharot@comcast.net> > To: <m.foxworth@verizon.net> > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 11:35 PM > Subject: ringling organ > > > dear merry foxworth: i hope this information will prove helpful...you = had > > asked about the organ during your tour of the john and mable ringling > museum > > of art. this is the most we know. > > we have really cold weather right now in sarasota, but i bet it's a = lot > more > > so in roslindale, MA. > > best to you...sharon roth > > > > The Ringling Organ was commissioned by John > > and Mable in 1924 for installation at Ca d zan > > during the construction of the winter residence. It is one of ten = such > > commissions of Aeolian Organ Company( which company is no longer in > > business.) > > The Ringling Aeolian organ has 2, 280 pipes, the diameter of which > > range from 12" to the diameter of a lead pencil. The organ > > pipes are housed in the building structure from the basement to the > > balcony level on the south wall of the Court room and the > > entire space of the court, 50'by65' is a sounding chambre for > > this musical instrument. During the time that John and Mable > > lived at their winter residence, contemporaries claim that > > the music could be heard across the bay on the barrier island > > of Long Boat Key. the last documented organ recital occurred > > in Spring 1947 with RMA Director, A. Everett Austin > > having engaged the well know Organist E. Power Briggs > > to play for a " fund raising spectatcular" organized by Austin > > at Ca d Zan. The Organ is in need of restoration and we are > > advised that the cost to recommission the instrument is > > $780, 000. Currently, the conservationists at RMA are in > > consultation with staff at FSU, regarding the specifics > > of such restorative eforts and the cost as well as the proper > > rotation of the pipes which is done > > periodically by the Museum. > > > > Sharon, all this information is gained from material given to > > us from Conservation, Curators and the Department of > > Education as well as , TheFLORIDA YEARS, D. Weeks > > MAGICIAN OF > THE MODERN, > > Gaddis > > > > > > Hope this helps. Love you lots. Edna > > > > > >