PipeChat Digest #4241 - Sunday, January 25, 2004
 
Re: gern in London
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
re:gern in London
  by "dballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br>
Re: Clergy Wedding Fees -- a "retraction" if you will
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Re: gern in London
  by "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net>
Gober looking for pipe maker
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
Re: gern in London
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Jerusalem
  by "Jim Hailey" <jhaileya10@charter.net>
RE: Domitila's Brazilian hybrid organ
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
RE: Gern's pipes
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
Curtis Organ at the University of Pennsylvania
  by <niksiz@comcast.net>
RE: Gern's pipes
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: Re: gern in London From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 04:51:47 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Well, well! I have learned something. In my utter ignorance, I didn't even know that Gern had set up business in London!   I checked out August Gern organs on the UK National Pipe Organ Register, and discovered that there are 101 surveys of organs built or re-built by Gern throughout the UK, and some of these still exist in a reasonable state.   Rather than attempting to list them, I would suggest the following web-site.   http://lehuray2.csi.cam.ac.uk/npor.html     Once there, navigate to 'builder' and just type in 'Gern' (without the apostrophes) and then 'continue'.   This will reveal the complete list.   I note that Eric Shepherd has made various comments on at least one Gern organ in London, and he has contributed to 'pipechat'.   If Eric sees this, I wonder if he could tell us anything more about the condition and/or extant Gern organs in London?   Interestingly, one photograph on the NPOR register, shows a case facade with zinc pipes; so presumably Gern cut corners on quality. Were they in the style of his former employer, Cavaille-Coll, they would be almost pure tin.   I wonder if Gern used the services of pipe makers, rather than employ in-house pipe-makers. Did he have a metal shop in the works,I wonder?   Lack of time prevents me from undertaking immediate research, but the whole subject of French organs in the UK is quite fascinating. There is, for example, an unusually fine 2-manual instrument without a name plate, which turns out to be a Cavaille-Coll, and this is only about 35 miles from where I live, in the city of Blackburn, where there was once a fine Cavaille-Coll which they MELTED DOWN for the new Walker organ in 1965. (The Cavaille-Coll was so ruined, it could not be saved).   Many of these French organs were installed in the North of England, largely as a result of wealthy mill owners in the textile trade.   One of the very finest is to be found at the Parr Hall, Warrington, which survives in fairly original condition; having originally been built for a very large private residence, Bracewell Hall.....about 12 miles from where I live!   For a fine Cavaille-Coll site, the Parr Hall (ex-Bracewell Hall) organ can be seen at the following site:-   http://www.parrhall.co.uk/organ/home.htm     What may be a reference the August Gern occurs in an interesting article about the origins of this organ, at the following site:-   http://www.barnoldswick.blogspot.com/2002_04_14_barnoldswick_archive.html   As discussed fairly recently, we also had a number of Anneesens (Belgium) organs in the UK and we still have the world's last remaining truly great German Schulze organs.   Lots to look at for now, so until the next difficult question arises, I hope you enjoy!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK         --- dballesteros <dballesteros@uol.com.br> wrote: > Colin, do you know what are these > examples? > Domitila >     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/  
(back) Subject: re:gern in London From: "dballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 11:32:43 -0200   Hello.   And I, and my 'utter ignorance' have no idea what means 'NPOR'. Sorry, but does anyone tell me what means?   Domitila       --- Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela. AntiPop-up UOL - =C9 gr=E1tis! http://antipopup.uol.com.br    
(back) Subject: Re: Clergy Wedding Fees -- a "retraction" if you will From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:44:10 EST   Hello billious@billraty.com,   In reference to your comment:   =E8 A colleague's stated policy: not a note is played until =E8 there is a check on the music rail of the instrument.   I've learned the hard way to get a 50% deposit when the date is set. The=20 balance is usually paid before the wedding starts. I'm a graphic designer,=20= and I=20 have made up a nice brochure outlining all fees.   I was called in to sub for an organist who was not available for a wedding.=20= =20 The bride wanted "all Vivaldi," and I had to meet with the bride and her=20 mother, BUY the music, learn and practice it, and I was told two days before= the=20 wedding that "Aunt Mary" was going to play, and my services wouldn't be need= ed. =20 Ouch.   Victoria    
(back) Subject: Re: gern in London From: "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:54:58 -0500   Hello Domitilia, Ignorance is such a harsh term don't you think. Unfamiliar might better apply to your condition, for the evidence of your very fine posts to this group show anything but ignorance. NPOR, or more properly, N.P.O.R. is an acronym for the National Pipe Organ Registry, a large survey of many of the pipe organs in the United Kingdom. Cheers Mike   dballesteros wrote:   > Hello. > > And I, and my 'utter ignorance' have no idea what > means 'NPOR'. Sorry, but does anyone tell me what means? > > Domitila > >    
(back) Subject: Gober looking for pipe maker From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 11:22:21 -0500   I've been told by a colleague that Hal Gober has recently advertised in = the classified section of the Toronto Star for the services of an experienced pipe maker presumably already living in Canada. To the best of my knowledge he hasn't spread the word via the internet (excuse me if he has) and I don't think he'd mind if I did so for him. AjM      
(back) Subject: Re: gern in London From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 10:21:29 -0600       Colin Mitchell wrote:   >Hello, > >Well, well! I have learned something. In my utter >ignorance, I didn't even know that Gern had set up >business in London! > >I checked out August Gern organs on the UK National >Pipe Organ Register, and discovered that there are 101 >surveys of organs built or re-built by Gern throughout >the UK, and some of these still exist in a reasonable >state. > >Rather than attempting to list them, I would suggest >the following web-site. > > >http://lehuray2.csi.cam.ac.uk/npor.html > > >Once there, navigate to 'builder' and just type in >'Gern' (without the apostrophes) and then 'continue'. > > As well as looking at the instruments, you might also want to click on "DBOB" (Directory of British Organ Builders) on the same webpage, and then type in "Gern" which will give quite a few details about the Gern firm. I see, for example that he worked first in Berlin, then as CavailleColl's foreman from 1860-1866, and set up his busiiness in London in 1866.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: Jerusalem From: "Jim Hailey" <jhaileya10@charter.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:27:00 -0600   Thanks guys, I have been able to access the site. I appreciate your help.   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: Re: Jerusalem     > Hello, Beau, et al: > > You wrote about the public domain site: > > > I use this resource all the time. If you're > > having trouble, try simply going to > > > > http://www.cpdl.org > > > > That should work just fine. > > Can't connect and display there either. I will > close down and restart my computer to reset > everything locally, then try again. > > F. Richard Burt > > > . > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: RE: Domitila's Brazilian hybrid organ From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:32:54 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Thanks, Domitila, for your comprehensive information, and never mind your English! The thread which you started was very, very instructive; also the links.   Indeed the disposition of this organ has some strange features. A = quintaton 10-2/3 without a matching 16' to give a resultant 32', and all that in the Great. Two Bourdon 16' in the Pedal. The reeds in the swell are not so strange in my appreciation; most of our organs here have their whole reed set in the swell too, including our C-C's.   > Now, the organ have a electropneumatic action, but originally it have pneumatic action (they say...)   If it was originally a 1892 organ this could be true. Although EP actions were developd early in Europe and USA they couldn't spread in South = America until all buildings got electrical installations and reliable power = supply. In some countries this was in the 1930's or 1940's!   > The organ was first installed other church, the Union Church (Anglican). Then, this church moved and the organ moved too. In the 90's, when this organ already mute and stopped a long time, my church buyed this white elephant. But, this is a other history.   .... and so typical! Was it, incidentally, donated by some wealthy parishioner? :) I start to pray aloud when I am told that a "new patient" was donated. Usually it's a nightmarish Lemon. [For not slang-acquainted people: a 'lemon' is an artifact that comes with mechanical defects from beginning on and gives nothing but headeaches to its owner].   > The organ is hybrid due a various reasons. <SNIP> Is an hybrid organ because it have some components 'imported' of the others white elephants.   Oh, my. I have to deal with such a beast in my parish church. Some day I will write the story of this one. Meanwhile I wish you luck with your = "white elephants-mix". To find and fix failures in those "hybrids" usually is = very, very instructive. In a separate post I will give you some hints on how to determine different origin of parts.   > Is hybrid because the console have one sign that says: "Guilherme (Wilhelm) Berner - Rio de Janeiro - Brasil", while in the swell, fixed in the wood, there is one sign, plaque, that says: "August Gern- London". This plaque is very very clear. There is no mistake.   Plaques of organ builders *inside* their organs is very seldom. So, = probably this plaque was on the original Gern organ's console, and Mr. Berner left = it as testimony of who built the swell, or the "ground-stock" of this organ. = That speaks for honesty, and, as I noted yesterday, isn't quite usual here.   It's interesting to see how certain patterns repeat themselves across so many south american countries. Pipe organ Builders / Techs of german = origin is one of them. In Venezuela there was my old friend Mr. Kurt Schmeltzer, who was an independent builder, however. In Colombia there was Mr. Binder, Walcker representative, who assembled = the Walcker organ in the Sala Luis Arango in Bogota. In Mexico there is another german, Mr. Joachim Wesslowski. And so on.   Cheers, and stay tuned [keep in contact with us]! Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.    
(back) Subject: RE: Gern's pipes From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:38:13 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Another AGEP, sorry folks. Experts or not interested in the field may = delete this. Domitila asked:   > Does anyone knows 1) how can I know if the chests and/or the pipes are made by the same organbuilder?   Chests: If made by the same builder they usually are made of the same wood and are equal or at least very similar in construction, finish and = quality. If you find a cone pallet chest in the swell and a slider chest in the great for example, they are of different origin in most cases. One chest made of oak (a wood which doesn't exist in South America) and another one = of Mahogany in the same organ for sure are from different builders. Average seen, it's easy to note the differences.   Pipes: Determining pipes origin by material is a little more difficult. Ranks which are part zinc part metal in many cases are 20th cty. Spotted metal is more common in USA, but this isn't a fix rule either. Sometimes only an expert can say if all of them really are from the original builder or not. If Gern came from Cavaille-Coll's shop he might have built his pipes of worthy material: High tin content (these pipes usually have a silvery = shine) meanwhile higher lead content gives a darker gray. This if the pipework didn't suffer from corrosion or got through too many hands (using gloves when handling metal pipes to prevent skin oil, sweat and fingerprint markings is an unknown art here!).   Fine details in pipe manufacturing and scaling analysis is another matter for experts, but look out for dramatically differing or "changing" pipe = foot sizes and mouth styles: The forms should be the same, even so tuning = devices on bass and mid-range pipes: All scrolls or all sleeves. Treble pipes may = be cut to tuning length; this is a normal practice and not an indiction of diferent origin.   Examining marks or stamps is easier for a layman. Look first at the note denominations that are stamped on the pipes. If the letter type and shape (=3Dfont format) differs from one pipe rank to another or changes within = the same pipe rank it's almost for sure an indiction that the pipes are from different builders. Also different denominations between ranks, for example CC in one rank, C = in other, C0 in other *for the same note* (the first, lowest 8' C) ; or an = a'' in one rank, a=3D in other rank, a2 in other rank for the same a. Look for similar or different denominations on a#; it maybe b; as well as the note h, marked as b by others.   On reeds, look on the denominations at the boot and the resonator: They should be the same. But even here there are exceptions: At our Kleuker organs for example the pipe foots have the denomination in one font and = the body in other!- but it's the same font on *all* pipe foots and the same = font on *all* pipe bodies.   Mixture pipes often are numbered outside their note denomination: 1 for C, = 2 for C# and so on. If on the 5 rank mixture some ranks have one number and others have not, or different numbers, or the numbers don't match with the note, it's a sign that the mixture was "mixed together" (and BTW I only = can hope that a maintenance tech notes this *before* he takes out the mixture!).   On wood pipes it's the same as the chests: Look out for differing wood and construction methods (assembly, pipe foots, stopper forms). They shouldn't change within a rank, and only slighly from one rank to another.   This is only a short introduction to a quite complex field!- Hope this = helps for the beginning however. Organ history research is detective work... = more on such hybrids.   Cheers Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.    
(back) Subject: Curtis Organ at the University of Pennsylvania From: <niksiz@comcast.net> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:19:23 +0000   Greetings!   I am an organist in Philadelphia, PA who is very interested in working = towards having the Curtis Organ at the University of Pennsylvania used to = its full potential with recitals, concerts, and organ crawls (I'm also a = Penn staff member and graduate student, and a member of Philadelphia AGO).   The Curtis Organ, which is located inside Irvine Auditorium, is one of the = largest pipe organs in the world, with 10,731 pipes. It, along with the = hall, was completely renovated a few years ago and a new four-manual = console was installed.   I have been talking to and working with a number of individuals who are = also willing to work at making this happen. We have some ideas in mind and = are looking forward to working with Penn to utilize the Curtis Organ to = its fullest potential.   However, we need your help!   There is an endowment fund setup at the University of Pennsylvania = specifically for the Curtis Organ. I would encourage you to send a letter = supporting regular recitals, concerts, and organ crawls along with = generous donation to (make a note in the memo section that the donation is = for the Endowment for the Curtis Organ and make the check payable to The = Trustees of the University of Pennsylvania):   Endowment for the Curtis Organ Vice Provost for University Life University of Pennsylvania 3611 Locust Walk Philadelphia, PA 19104-6222   If anyone would like more information or can help in this effort in any = way, please contact me by email. Thank you for your help and support!   -- Nikola Sizgorich niksiz@comcast.net  
(back) Subject: RE: Gern's pipes From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:33:56 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   I'm sure that what Andres says is entirely valid, but I would just draw attention to one thing.   The use of Zinc basses can certainly pre-date the 20th century in the UK.   Brindley & Foster, for example, were using this material in the 1870's in the UK, where industrial metal making was at a very advanced state. Brindley & Foster were situated in Sheffield; the city which specialised in metal casting, forging and smelting; and still does.   On a specific point conerning August Gern, I note that one or two photographs of Gern facades (if ORIGINAL) show zinc pipes with "English" mouth shapes. Cavaille-Coll used the typical continental rounded pipe shades.....a change of style to be sure.   In fact, this is why I asked the question about Gern having a metal shop, because I realised immediately that the construction of the pipes was very English, and suggests a trade supplier such as Violette, who supplied Willis of course.   In fact, the Gern pipes look remarkably like Willis ones!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       --- Andr=E9s G=FCnther <agun@telcel.net.ve> wrote: > Andres Gunther > agun@telcel.net.ve > > Another AGEP, sorry folks. Experts or not interested > in the field may delete > this. > Domitila asked: > > > Does anyone knows > 1) how can I know if the chests and/or > the pipes are made by the same > organbuilder? > > > Pipes: Determining pipes origin by material is a > little more difficult. > Ranks which are part zinc part metal in many cases > are 20th cty.   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/