PipeChat Digest #4619 - Thursday, July 15, 2004
 
RE: "New York Style" Hymn playing and organ design
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
RE: Organ Builders
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: Hymn Intros, Text Painting, and stuff...
  by "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org>
RE: Hymn Intros, Text Painting, and stuff...
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: "New York Style" Hymn playing and organ design
  by "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org>
Re: Hymn Intros, Text Painting, and stuff...
  by "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org>
Re: 32-footers in small spaces?
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: 32-footers in small spaces?
  by "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net>
Re: 32-footers in small spaces? (Slight Correction)
  by "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net>
RE: "Catholic" organ specs
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: "Catholic" organ specs
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: Organ in sanity and madness
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Re: Hymn Intros, Text Painting, and stuff...
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: New York Style
  by "Peter Rodwell" <iof@ctv.es>
Re: Hymn Intros, Text Painting, and stuff...
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Hymns
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Hymns
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
 

(back) Subject: RE: "New York Style" Hymn playing and organ design From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:33:01 +0100   I try to make sure that there is never more than one unfamiliar hymn in = a service. Although I don't choose the hymns, if a minister puts two or = more unfamiliar ones in, I try to talk them out of it. If they insist they = want them for the words, and the hymn is very difficult to learn, I might = change the tune to a more familiar one for the one of the unknown ones. This doesn't happen very often though. As far as learning new tunes go, I = make sure to solo the soprano line when playing-through the hymn, and give a = good strong lead throughout, and we always finish up by knowing it by the end = of the hymn. Can you explain what you mean by "text painting"? If you mean changing registrations word-by-word through the verses, then I agree with you. = But I usually will make registration changes between verses, depending on the words, and sometimes just for variety- but not large changes.     Will Light Coventry UK     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Emily Adams Sent: 15 July 2004 12:48 To: PipeChat Subject: "New York Style" Hymn playing and organ design   From Roger: "And why would you assume that a varied harmonisation is appropriate to introduce a hymn. It certainly is NOT appropriate in the tradition in = which I work (Anglican). And while I am at it, I am VERY wary about text painting - unless one is possessed of great discretion, the result is almost always disruptive of = the congregational singing."   Since my limited skills don't extend to improvisation, I use (among = others) things from June Nixon's collection "Organ Miniatures" for introductions sometimes, but only for tunes that are thoroughly familiar to the congregation. It's a way I can introduce variety and still be sure I'm = not confusing them or interfering with their singing.   Mostly I wanted to say amen to your comment about disrupting = congregational singing. While I appreciate an interesting treatment of a hymn as much = as the next organist, I think in this area as in others there's the = potential that the organist's desire to showcase his/her capabilities will = interfere with the primary wants and needs of the congregation which pays our salaries. That said, of course we each know our own congregation best.   As to the question of what the congregation really wants--and to = potentially send the conversation off on a tangent--last week a member told me she'd switched from the traditional to the contemporary service partly because = she can't read music and wasn't comfortable trying to sing hymns that are unfamiliar to her. (Our Worship Committee chair who selects the hymns = does a great job, but has said explicitly she doesn't worry about whether the congregation knows them or not. I see this as both a positive and a negative <g>). If this level of insecurity exists in even a few = congregants then I'm further convinced that in my particular situation basic is = best.   By the way, has anyone found an effective way of addressing the issue of = the congregation's attitute toward unfamiliar hymns? Although I'm all for peaceful and cooperative coexistence with the contemporary service = folks, I'd also love to do anything I can to stop or reverse the migration of members from my service to theirs. Within our liturgical context = something like the mini-lessons to learn new hymns that I've seen in other denominations wouldn't be possible.   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: RE: Organ Builders From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:33:01 +0100   Yes- the Coventry Cathedral organ is fully restored. It wasn't = physically damaged by the fire, just affected by smoke. I think it just had to be = taken apart and all the pipework and chests cleaned. The fire was in a = cupboard full of clothing - vestments and cassocks etc. in the choir school which = is under the floor of the cathedral. It happened just before the morning = choir practice for the boys in the choir. It was never explained, but I have a theory that little boys might have sneaked in there for a quiet smoke = before choir practice! There was no suggestion of an electrical fault reported = and I don't think surplices have a habit of spontaneous combustion have = they? Anyway, the organ and the Graham Sutherland tapestry had to be cleaned, = as well as the whole of the cathedral building, even though the fire was confined to the small closet. I don't know if this is significant, but = the Norwegian organ which used to live in the choir school is now in the = north aisle, level with the high altar, and the choir school has been moved to = a room outside the main cathedral building, next to the restaurant.   Will Light Coventry UK     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of = Bob Conway Sent: 15 July 2004 12:24 To: PipeChat Subject: Organ Builders   At 04:27 AM 7/15/2004, Will Light wrote: >As for organ firms - I think Conacher is still going - at least they >answered a letter I sent them a couple of years ago. I'm not sure about >Bishops - I haven't heard anything about them one way or the other.   Will,   According to www.buildingconservation.com   Bishop and Son are still operating out of Beethoven Street, London W10=20 4LG. Tel. No 020 8969 4328.   Thank you for telling us where you play in Coventry, - I do not know it, =   but was interested as my brother was married in Holy Trinity Church.   Is the Coventry Cathedral organ fully restored since the fire, - I = haven't=20 heard it since then.   Bob Conway         "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: Re: Hymn Intros, Text Painting, and stuff... From: "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:39:19 +1000   On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:10 pm, RMB10@aol.com wrote:   > So while some organists might go overboard with text painting, some go the > =A0 extreme opposite and don't change registration during a service. =A0T= hat's > =A0just as bad. =A0   And I would never advocate that.   > =A0A good organist uses his/her brain and ears to judge what is=20 > tatesful and appropirate to the text of the hymn and also according to wh= at > the congregation is doing. =A0   And if that's what you mean by 'text painting' - fine. Artistically adaptin= g=20 registration and style to the natural climaxes`and moods of the hymn. But = it=20 does need to be done with discretion and artistry.   > =A0I=A0For example, on a > =A0hymn such as Nettleton "Come Thou Fount", the right hand might do some > kind of =A0running water arpeggio motive up and down the Great, while the > accompaniment is =A0played on the choir; or like in his Concertato on " A > Might Fortress" the =A0verse that speaks about "and though this world with > devils filled..." where he =A0romps around on snarly reeds while the > congregation sings. =A0   I wouldn't have a bar of that sort of stuff - not while the congregation wa= s=20 singing.=20   That doesn't mean I stick to the SATB parts as gospel but whatever is done= =20 needs to be within the constraints of the vocal harmony unless a unison ver= se=20 has been agreed with the choir. I do lots of 'over the top' organ descants= =20 for lighter verses (eg Lobe den Herren or Hanover) and where appropriate,=20 varied harmony for unison verses (my own or from collections).   But the sort of thing you describe above would be considered well beyond go= od=20 taste here except under special circumstances (perhaps for a choir festival= ).   =2D-=20 Roger Brown robrown@melbpc.org.au roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org  
(back) Subject: RE: Hymn Intros, Text Painting, and stuff... From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:47:23 +0100   I think the only purpose of the play-through is to indicate to the congregation a) which tune they are about to sing. (Our book sometimes = has two or even three alternative tunes to the same hymn) and b) what speed = it is going to be sung at. I will usually play over in 4 part harmony on manuals only bringing in the pedal for the last line or so. If the hymn = is less familiar I will solo the melody. If the hymn is very long and completely familiar, I may announce it just with the first phrase or = line on a solo reed, if it is a "big" hymn. I try always to fit my registrations = to the mood of the words, and change them verse by verse. My only = concession to "cheesy word-painting" is in "There's a light upon the mountains" - and = I just can't resist - in the last verse the words go: "Hark! We hear a = distant music, and it comes with fuller swell; 'Tis the triumph song of Jesus, = of our King, Immanuel; Zion go ye forth to meet him; and, my soul, be swift = to bring All thy finest and thy noblest for the triumph of our King!" Well, you can guess what I do: First line, Full (English) Swell with = reeds and couplers. Box shut. Gradually open box during first line. Second = line, Great diapason chorus with full Swell coupled. Third line, Great reeds, super and sub couplers. Last line full tutti, 32 ft pedal - the lot! And why not? Just you try and stop me!!   Will Light Coventry UK        
(back) Subject: Re: "New York Style" Hymn playing and organ design From: "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:49:05 +1000   On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:33 pm, Will Light wrote:   > Can you explain what you mean by "text painting"? If you mean changing > registrations word-by-word through the verses, then I agree with you. = But I > usually will make registration changes between verses, depending on the > words, and sometimes just for variety- but not large changes.   Yes it was that possible interpretation that put me off. Perhaps that was = NOT what was intended.   I certainly would make registration changes between verses and on = occasions within verses - nothing is worse than an accompanist ignoring the natural climaxes or emphases of words or music.   As an example - how could one NOT do something in the second half of = Aurelia to verses three or four?   'Yet saints their watch are keeping....." and "till with a vision glorious....."     -- Roger Brown robrown@melbpc.org.au roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Hymn Intros, Text Painting, and stuff... From: "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:52:19 +1000   On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:47 pm, Will Light wrote: > "Hark! We hear a distant > music, and it comes with fuller swell;   My copy of that verse has my pencil note "NOT necessarily a direction as = to registration!"   -- Roger Brown robrown@melbpc.org.au roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org  
(back) Subject: Re: 32-footers in small spaces? From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:33:30 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Credentials first!   I'm not a scientist, acoustician etc etc.   However, are people confusing two things Charlie?   The forming of sound waves within a building is related to space. A 32ft needs space to form, just as a string needs a wooden body on a violin. Hence the large scales/pressures required in smaller buildings....pushing the envelope, so to speak.   In recordings, we hear the finished product picked up by the mics, complete with the acoustic in the original building.   So quite rightly, we hear the whole thing in our living spaces, using really, truly, awesome speakers such as you (and I) have. If I turn them up, I get complaints from the neighbours, saying that their cabinets are rattling!   "My" speakers are flat down to 20Hz.....that's pretty darned close to CCCC on a 32ft but I'll settle for the semitone above!!   Good mics can pick up sound this low with ease, and amps (etc) are more than capable of reproducing the low sound waves.   I have a lovely recording of Todd Wilson playing the Durufle Scherzo, at the end of which, on hushed strings, he adds the 32ft.......my furniture joins in!!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   PS: You do not hear the fundamental of the 64ft from Sydney, but then, no one ever does, even in the hall.   --- Charlie Lester <crl@137.com> wrote: > > Well, I've asked this question before and never > gotten a > really satisfactory answer so I'll ask it again. > > Why then, on my "killer" home stereo system with a > triple > speaker system (2 large cabinets per channel plus 2 > sub > woofers), is it that I can hear AND feel not only > 32-foot > tone but 64-foot as well?       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Re: 32-footers in small spaces? From: "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:07:11 -0400       Colin Mitchell wrote:   > (snip) > > I have a lovely recording of Todd Wilson playing the > Durufle Scherzo, at the end of which, on hushed > strings, he adds the 32ft.......my furniture joins > in!!   Hi Colin, I was inside the lovely organ at Severance Hall that Todd was playing at the time. I had been invited by Ken List from Schantz Organs to accompany him for a "baby sitting" job inside the chambers during a concert. There had to always be someone at the ready in case of a cypher, so Ken was elected, and he dragged me happily along with him. At that time, every organ concert was preceded by an hour long "pre-program" organ demonstration and artist interview. Listening to all the stops played individually from inside the organ was am indescribable thrill. When Todd got to the 32' ranks and descended the scale approaching the bottom, a heavy sympathetic vibration started that became far louder than the notes from the pipes. It turned out to be a very heavy metal door near the 32' ranks that was not completely closed and latched. It was vibrating as its own reed against the jamb as the shallot, like it would come off the hinges. Fortunately Ken had time before the actual concert to secure the door so it wouldn't play it's own notes during the performance. It wasn't a cypher, but it was a good thing Ken was there to catch the problem. It made me well aware of the reason Severance Hall was willing to pay someone to stand by inside the organ during all performances. Cheers Mike      
(back) Subject: Re: 32-footers in small spaces? (Slight Correction) From: "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:15:46 -0400   Sorry, I did not mean to imply the episode at Severance Hall described was = the same session as the recording Colin mentioned. Mike   Mike Gettelman wrote:   > Colin Mitchell wrote: > > > (snip) > > > > I have a lovely recording of Todd Wilson playing the > > Durufle Scherzo, at the end of which, on hushed > > strings, he adds the 32ft.......my furniture joins > > in!! > > Hi Colin, > I was inside the lovely organ at Severance Hall that Todd was = playing > at the time. I had been invited by Ken List from Schantz Organs to > accompany him for a "baby sitting" job inside the chambers during a > concert. There had to always be someone at the ready in case of a = cypher, > so Ken was elected, and he dragged me happily along with him. > At that time, every organ concert was preceded by an hour long > "pre-program" organ demonstration and artist interview. Listening to all > the stops played individually from inside the organ was am indescribable > thrill. When Todd got to the 32' ranks and descended the scale = approaching > the bottom, a heavy sympathetic vibration started that became far louder > than the notes from the pipes. It turned out to be a very heavy metal = door > near the 32' ranks that was not completely closed and latched. It was > vibrating as its own reed against the jamb as the shallot, like it would > come off the hinges. Fortunately Ken had time before the actual concert = to > secure the door so it wouldn't play it's own notes during the = performance. > It wasn't a cypher, but it was a good thing Ken was there to catch the > problem. It made me well aware of the reason Severance Hall was willing = to > pay someone to stand by inside the organ during all performances. > Cheers > Mike > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>    
(back) Subject: RE: "Catholic" organ specs From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:45:09 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I have seen, but not played Holy Trinity Coventry, but the Cathedral Organ is, as Ross points out, slightly disappointing.   It sounds good certainly, but somehow, it just doesn't thrill.   I've never quite been able to put my finger on the problem....the reeds are good, the fluework good, but it's a sort of hybrid romantic/classical organ, exactly.   I knew someone who was on the original "Organ Committee," and the original proposal was for a typical 1940's style Harrison. The committee chewed over this, and they proposed a more eclectic, classical design, which is exactly what they got of course.   The same is true of Colston Hall, Bristol....another organ which leaves me cold.   Somehow, I can never reconcile those two instruments with the virtually NEW Harrison & Harrison instrument at St.George's Chapel, Windsor Castle, back in the 60's. Now THIS is a truly fabulous instrument!   Perhaps they were on a learning curve!   Windsor has real character!   As for Southwark....simply wonderful. It was broadcast last week on Radio 3 Evensong. Did anyone hear it?   One of my favourite games is to turn down the volume so I don't hear the announcement, then try to guess where they are broadcasting from. There I was thinking, "Slow diapasons, fine English reeds....where the heck is this?"   I forgot that I once lived only a few hundred yards away from Southwark Cathedral!!!!   Must have heard it dozens of times.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       --- TheShieling <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > > > I played just two organs in Coventry. The Cathedral > and Holy Trinity ones. > The HT one was large but struck as not being of good > tone. The Cathedral H&H > put me off a bit, to be honest - a lot of screech at > the top end, and yet > boom at the bottom end, with insufficient "tummy". > The Southwark Lewis, to > me, is a far far finer instrument and H&H did an > amazingly good job in > restoring the Lewis tone.       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: RE: "Catholic" organ specs From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:16:09 -0400   At 11:45 AM 7/15/2004, Colin wrote; >As for Southwark....simply wonderful. It was broadcast >last week on Radio 3 Evensong. Did anyone hear it? > >I forgot that I once lived only a few hundred yards >away from Southwark Cathedral!!!! > >Must have heard it dozens of times.   Colin 'et al',   Even though I am across the pond, whenever I am in London, about every other year, I always try to get to the regular Monday lunchtime recitals = at Southwark. To my mind, it is one of the finest organs in London.   The last time I was over, I heard the Organist of Southwark Cathedral, Peter Wright playing the Temple Church organ, he really is worth hearing. Peter Wright is an "Old Boy" of Highgate School, London, and has =   close ties with their choir and organist.   My connection to Highgate School is much more tenuous. The 1825 Bishop organ that was in my church when I lived in London, (Christ's Church, St. Marylebone), has been installed in the Chapel at Highgate School. I was able to both see it and hear it during my last visit to London, due to the kindly interest of their Choirmaster.   Bob Conway    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ in sanity and madness From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:41:55 -0700   Coincidentally: there is a copy up for auction on eBay today. Link:   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D306&item=3D4025008= 754&rd=3D1   MAF ----- Original Message ----- From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org>   > The subject heading said "Organ in Sanity and Madness" which was the > recording of the centennial concert of the Royal College of Organists, held > in the Royal Albert Hall in London around thirty or forty years ago. It was > certainly a classic of its time. I wish they would reissue it on CD; = I'm > sure the sales would justify this. I would buy one anyway. > > John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: Hymn Intros, Text Painting, and stuff... From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:46:36 -0700 (PDT)     Text painting on the hymns to me is VERY important. For example, My Hope = Is Built has a a stanza that talks about when trumpe blasts...I just have = to use fanfares on the bigges reeds available. In O Praise Ye the Lord = when he talks about "loud organs" I just have to hit the general to bring = on the swell battery and open her up. In Earth and All Starts...its so fun = with we talk abotu "Classrooms and Labs, Loud Boiling Test-tubes!" to use = trills all over the place.   In All Creatured of Our God and King...the second verse I usually make a = very lush string 16 8 4 combination with the help of the bigger = flutes...always making sure to have somehting on at 4 so the singers will = hear it.   Another thing I do for responses, etc. When we had Pentacost Sunday, I = would interspese the Veni Creator Spiritus into the Responsorial Psalm.   Text painting and fun with colors is always fun...it just depends on what = the hymns of the day. If they are hymns where I really cant thing how to = paint the text, I am not ashamed to use by basic hymn progression. If its = a feast day and the Spirt hits me, its not uncommon to even stick an = interlude between the virst and second verses...something I learned while = interning at the Episcopal Cathedral at home.   Just some thoughts         From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
(back) Subject: Re: New York Style From: "Peter Rodwell" <iof@ctv.es> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 19:13:49 +0200   Quoting Desire=E9:   > My mentor, the late, great James Dale Holloway once told me that > some east caost schools, especially Westminster, teach "New York" > style hymn playing. What does this consist of?   It really requires a theater organ with all those special effects: police siren, crowd murmurs, car horns, screams of mugging victims...   Peter.    
(back) Subject: Re: Hymn Intros, Text Painting, and stuff... From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:43:46 -0400   On 7/15/04 9:10 AM, "RMB10@aol.com" <RMB10@aol.com> wrote:   > Now this brings up another question, how many people here only play the = notes > on the page and how many people add other things to the hymn. I'm not = just > talking about adding a few passing tones here and there. I'm talking = about > really getting creative and doing things like in the John Ferguson > style--anyone who has been to one of his hymn festivals will understand = what I > mean.   Monty: I sure know what you mean. I think of myself as an admirer of Roger, but you surely talk my language far more eloquently than he. And = his theological and musical tradition is (I THINK!) closer to mine than that = of your congregation.   Our hymn singing is like a hymn festival every Sunday. Well, quite a bit, anyway. Every KIND of variety. Sure, it's more restrained in Advent and Lent--but even THEN it's "creative" in DIFFERENT ways! I can brag about = our music because I'm not involved in producing it; it's the work of Cantor Pedro d'Aquino. I'm sure that a lot of what he does is not "read" by more than 0, 1, or 2 people in the congregation--but the results (in our = singing) are still there--very MUCH there!   And the funny thing is that ours is just one of FOUR ELCA parishes in Midtown Manhattan of which at LEAST as much can be said.   Alan www.stlukesnyc.org  
(back) Subject: Hymns From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:59:22 -0400   As long as we're talking about hymns (and especially in such a salutary fashion), shouldn't someone point out that Bibles (including Psalms) have "verses", while hymns have "stanzas"?   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:05:57 -0400   At 01:59 PM 7/15/2004, you wrote: >As long as we're talking about hymns (and especially in such a salutary >fashion), shouldn't someone point out that Bibles (including Psalms) have =   >"verses", while hymns have "stanzas"? > >Alan   Touche! Alan, how many people do you know who refer to hymn verses as being properly called stanzas? Not too many I would guess!   Bob Conway, Although I think that you are quite correct in pointing this out!