PipeChat Digest #4621 - Friday, July 16, 2004 RE: Sortanicemusica by "Michael David" <email@example.com> Re: Playing during liturgical events by "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Hymns by <Keys4bach@aol.com> Re: Catholic Music by "Alicia Zeilenga" <email@example.com> singing the Chant in English by "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <firstname.lastname@example.org> the Chant in English, cont. by "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <email@example.com> Re: singing the Chant in English by "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Verses vs. stanzas by "Glenda" <email@example.com> the survival of the Chant by "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: the survival of the Chant by <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Music from the Royal Danish Wedding by "Jack Martin" <email@example.com> RE: Playing during liturgical events by "Daniel Hancock" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Catholic Music by <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Re: the Chant in English, cont. by "Alicia Zeilenga" <email@example.com> Dr. Nathan Carter by <RMB10@aol.com> Re: Hymn Intros, Text Painting, and stuff... by "Harry Grove" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
(back) Subject: RE: Sortanicemusica From: "Michael David" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:28:14 -0500 Different strokes, I guess. I've always found Sebastian's postings to be those of a literate, intelligent person who feels strongly about his work and expresses these feelings in an articulate manner. As far as getting names right, I have seen a lot of errors such as = Cassavant or Fritts / Fritz, etc. from people who should know better. He is, on the other hand, courteous enough to sign his full name in all of his postings as do nicemusic and quilsma among others with clever = (usually) but not immediately recognizable e-mail addresses. Michael (last name David, if that's not apparent) -----Original Message----- From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com]On Behalf Of DERREINETOR@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 11:47 AM To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com Subject: Re: Sortanicemusica Sebastian, Something about Ms. Hines and her situation has set you off. I'm not = sure what it is, yet I am also confident that I don't care to know. I will, however, tell you what I am NOT interested in--and that's condescension = and hubris along the lines of your post. Pardon me, listowners, but one is not REQUIRED either to read or participate in every thread. If you want to be condescending and mocking, do it privately. I would also add that criticizing a colleague's compositions or arrangements is something better reserved for journals. Making fun of a colleague's name is better reserved for the playground during gradeschool recess. Do pardon my honesty. Respectfully, Bill H. Boston.
(back) Subject: Re: Playing during liturgical events From: "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:48:55 -0400 On 7/15/04 3:19 PM, "Daniel Hancock" <email@example.com> wrote: > I play during the pastoral prayer at the United Methodist Church I play f= or in > Springfield, Missouri. It's the only time I can use the 8' Dolcan and Ce= leste > on the neo-baroque instrument--every other single stop eclipses them tota= lly. > And, it's good practice for in-service improvisation, if you aren't used = to > doing it. That says it well enough. =B3Good practice.=B2 >=20 > One drawback that if foresee is that it reinforces the idea of organ musi= c as > "background music" during the service, and I'm not too anxious [by =B3anxio= us=B2 I think you mean =B3eager=B2] to succumb to > that, but otherwise, I enjoy it. >=20 And that nails it down. Get a phonograph. (I=B9m struggling to be nice.) I=B9m very willing to talk, civilly, off list, because we=B9ve already done it SO many times on list Look at my venue, if you wish, at www.stlukesnyc.org Alan
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:56:19 EDT In a message dated 7/15/2004 5:16:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 firstname.lastname@example.org writes: > I=E2=80=99ll tell him you=E2=80=99re interested! >=20 >=20 do tell........ :-) dale in Florida
(back) Subject: Re: Catholic Music From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 18:05:31 -0500 I think I would give Monsignor a little more credit. Plainchant works very well in Latin, but the stresses of the Latin language are very different than those of English. I almost left a hymn concert this spring when they sang the Victimae Paschale Laudes in English. In the original Latin it is one of the most beautiful of all the Catholic chants, but the poetry of the text and the correspondence between text and melody is almost completely lost in English. Alicia Zeilenga -----Original Message----- From: DERREINETOR@aol.com To: firstname.lastname@example.org Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:09:33 EDT Subject: Re: Catholic Music > C, > > I once had a small battle with a certain Monsignor over the use of > plainchant. He suggested that "plainchant is ridiculous when sung in > English." I > retorted, "No, Monsignor, plainchant is ridiculous when sung by YOU. In > any > language". He was so incredibly clueless that he didn't fire me. > > So, it's not just LA. > > Pax, > Bill H. > "This Email Protected from Ridicule by Spellcheck";) >
(back) Subject: singing the Chant in English From: "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:13:50 -0700 John L. Speller wrote: > > > There is, however, some truth in what the Monsignor said. The problem = is > that plainchant is written for Latin and in a Latin sentence the = stresses > fall in quite different places from where they do in English. It is = rarely > possible to fit English words to plainchant without either straying from = the > original plainchant, or having the stresses in very awkward places. I disagree (of course), having spent the better part of fifty years transcribing the Gregorian repertoire into English (chuckle) ... and more scholarly names like Palmer, Burgess, Shields, and Douglas were doing it a hundred years before that. The model for adaptation is to be found in the Latin repertoire itself. Take (for instance) the single Mode 8 melody that is used for virtually ALL the Tracts in that mode throughout the year. Or take the neo-gregorian melodies that were adapted from older melodies as new feasts were added to the Kalendar. A VARIETY of texts were set to the SAME melody, and the melody was adapted accordingly. A model for dealing with the accented syllables in English poetic texts (the Office Hymns, for instance) can be found in the treatment of the same texts in Latin in the Mechlin Antiphonale. The Roman and Benedictine Antiphonales yield the following awkward crossing of ictus and word accent: a-VE ma-RIS stel-LA de-i ma-TER AL-ma at-que sem-per vir-GO fe-lix cae-li por-ta. Whereas Mechlin renders it: A-VE MA-ris STEL-la de-i MA-ter AL-ma at-que SEM-per VIR-go fe-lix cae-li por-ta. Or, in English: HAIL, O STAR that POIN-test t'ward the PORT of HEAV-en thou to WHOM as MAI-den God for Son was giv-en No violence is done to the MELODY; the NEUMS are re-grouped so that multi-note neums fall on the accented syllables. Likewise with Gregorian psalm-tones -- IF advantage is taken of the allowed addition of redundant notes and/or abrupt mediations and cadences. The chief difficulty with the Gregorian psalm-tones comes in the solemn version for the Psalm-Verse and Gloria Patri of the Introit, and the mixed version (solemn intonation and mediation + simple cadence) for the Gospel Canticles (Benedictus, Magnificat, Nunc dimittis), and even in those instances the problem can be ameliorated by the addition of redundant notes in the mediation and cadence, and in some cases by re-grouping the notes. As those tones ARE ornate, it's difficult to illustrate what I'm talking about without being able to write them out in notes. In GENERAL, the MORE ornate the chant, the EASIER it is to adapt it to English. Unfortunately, the English adaptations of the plainsong settings of the ORDINARY of the Mass that were in general circulation among Anglicans (Canon Douglas' "St. Dunstan Kyriale", Burgess' "English Gradual I") leave quite a bit to be desired, though Canon Douglas' adaptations of Mass VIII and Mass IX were widely sung throughout the anglo-catholic = world. In fairness, the fixed English PROSE texts of the Ordinary that must be set to the syllabic or neumatic chants of the Ordinary (as opposed to the melismatic chants of the Propers) DO present the most difficulties. But it can be done. Even the monks of Solesmes have stated that the future survival of Gregorian Chant will of necessity include some adaptation into the vernacular. Of course, given the rubrics permitting it and the ability to print translations in the service-bulletin, there's nothing whatsoever to prevent the Latin originals being sung, either in the American Episcopal Church OR the Roman Catholic Church. And indeed a small number of Episcopal churches do just that -- The Ascension in Chicago, St. Mary Magdalene in Toronto, and St. Ignatius of Antioch in New York City all sing the Latin Propers from the Graduale Romanum. Unfortunately, Latin and Chant in the RC Church has gotten identified with a certain ultra-conservative social and political viewpoint, which is silly. My politics are somewhere to the LEFT of Chairman Mao, but I PREFER to hear the MUSIC of the Mass sung in LATIN ... PRAY in Latin or English, as you will ... I understand both; it doesn't matter to ME (chuckle). Nor do I feel the need to vocally participate in each and every note that is sung in church, though as a professional musician I'm perfectly CAPABLE of singing everything. I'd JUST as soon listen to a fine CHOIR do it FOR me, except for the occasional hymn. I don't feel "left out" of a LITURGICAL performance of (say) the Faure Requiem because I'm not singing it; nor do I feel "left out" of a CONCERT performance of the same work for the same reason. EXTERIOR participation yields little if it isn't PRECEDED by INTERIOR participation. Cheers, Bud
(back) Subject: the Chant in English, cont. From: "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:40:16 -0700 With respect, Alicia, the problem MAY be with some of the current RC "translations." I find nothing wrong with the following, which is the standard Anglican translation: Victimae paschali laudes Christians, to the Paschal Victim Immolent Christiani. Offer your thankful praises. Agnus redemit oves: A Lamb the sheep redeemeth: Christus innocens Patri Christ, who only is sinless Reconciliavit peccatores Reconcileth sinners to the Father. Mors et vita duello Death and life have contended conflixere mirando: in that combat supendous: dux vitae mortuus, regnat vivus. The Price of life, who died, reigns immortal. Dic nobis Maria, Speak, Mary, declaring Quem vidisti in via. what thou sawest, wayfaring. Sepulcrum Christi viventis, The tomb of Christ, who is living, et gloriam vidi resurgentis: the glory of Jesus' resurrection; Angelicos testes, Bright angels attesting, sudarium et vestes. the shroud and napkin resting. Surrexit Christus spes mea: Yea, Chris my hope is arisen: praecedet suos in Galilaeam. To Galilee he goes before you. Scimus Christum surrexisse Christ indeed from death is risen, a mortuis vere: our new life obtaining: tu nobis, victor Rex, miserere. Have mercy, victor King, ever reigning. Amen, alleluia. I became EXTREMELY frustrated when the RC church first changed to English ... they REFUSED (as a matter of PRINCIPLE, mind you) to look at ANYTHING the Anglicans had done since 1549 ... five hundred years' experience with the vernacular liturgy (AND the existence of the Graduale in ENGLISH for OVER a hundred years) was IGNORED because (as Cardinal Ratzinger so inelegantly put it later), the Anglicans were not an "authentic church" ... therefore everything from 1549 to 1964 was invalid in Rome's eyes. Rome could have learned a GREAT deal about vernacular liturgy from both the Anglicans AND the Lutherans ... but instead, the Sacred Congregation of Rites chose to re-invent the wheel. Forty years later, the end result is apparent. Cheers, Bud
(back) Subject: Re: singing the Chant in English From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 19:55:09 -0400 I don't know what to say, Bud. Somewhere there should be, perhaps, a 21st=3Dcentury version of Solemnes to "bridge" the centuries. No hope, = right? And maybe that's no solution anyway. Well. Soon we'll check out. Alan
(back) Subject: Verses vs. stanzas From: "Glenda" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 19:22:57 -0500 Thank you - we deep Southerners are vindicated. It's "verse" - if someone in a Baptist church said "stanza" down here, the reply would be, "No, we sit down for this one." Just like Herman's Hermits - 'second verse same as the first'. Glenda Sutton email@example.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D stanza 1. A number of lines or verses forming a division of a song or poem, and agreeing in meter, rhyme, number of lines, etc., with other divisions; a part of a poem, ordinarily containing every variation of measure in that poem; a combination or arrangement of lines usually recurring; whether like or unlike, in measure. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D verse 1. a. A single metrical line in a poetic composition; one line of poetry. b. A division of a metrical composition, such as a stanza of a poem or hymn.
(back) Subject: the survival of the Chant From: "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:41:49 -0700 Actually, Alan, I'm not too concerned. BEFORE the 1960s, Anglicans had only two choices for the Propers (Palmer's Plainchant Gradual and Burgess English Gradual II) and two choices for the Ordinary (Douglas' St. Dunstan Kyriale and Burgess English Gradual II). SINCE the 1960s, new English versions of the Graduale (at least) have proliferated: The Anglican Use Gradual, the American Gradual, By Flowing Waters (an English adaptation of the Latin Graduale Simplex), the Graduale Budensis (if it ever gets FINISHED). I think the ORDINARY hasn't fared as well because the commonly-used modern text simply can't be fitted to ANY existing setting, chant or otherwise (by design?). "Lord have mercy" isn't enough syllables for "Kyrie eleison;" the paraphrase text of the Gloria in excelsis omits whole phrases of the Latin original, and reverses the order of others; Few places sing the Credo anymore; most that do sing the old Prayer Book text. I've never tried to set the modern text, except to a very simple chordal Russian setting. "Lord God of pow'r and might" in the Sanctus puts that GRINDING "pow'RRRRRRRRRRR" in the wrong place; "Lamb of God" without the "O" in front of it puts that bleating "Laaaaaaaaaaamb" sound on a melisma in a lot of the chant settings of the Agnus Dei ... tone-painting, maybe; singable, NO! (chuckle) Nowadays most places are content to ring the changes on Powell, Schubert and Proulx; in the old days, Anglicans knew three of the four settings in the Hymnal, plus Paschalis, Solemnis, de Angelis, Dominicalis, and Penitentialis in chant (the anglo-catholics, at least). Even the low-church parishes sang settings by Calloway, Sowerby, David McK. Williams, Shaw, Wyton, Titcomb, the Willan Short Masses, etc. Faced with a rector who was relentless in his demand for congregational Ordinaries ONLY (which is MOST UN-Anglican), I wrote chunks of FOUR different cycles of choral settings of the Propers to give the choir something to DO. Alas, poor ceremonies! Alas, poor choirs! Cheers, Bud
(back) Subject: Re: the survival of the Chant From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:35:42 EDT Bud, I agree with you in substance, however: We DO sing the credo in several plainchant settings, with "Rite II" = language at St. John's. One setting is by Sally Warner, I believe, two were adapted = by Dr. Porter, and I have adapted one. Clearly, a VERY good understanding of = the chant is necessary to do this, and I believe it can be done with good = results with contemporary language and a minimal redaction of the original neumes which, of course, scan the Latin or Greek texts in their musical = incarnation and must be slightly adapted to Modern or Elizabethan English. As for settings of the Ordinary, my Missa Penitentialis as used at St. John's, Bowdoin Street, includes a ninefold Greek Kyrie as well as a = "Rite II" Credo (in English) and Sanctus et Benedictus qui venit and a bilingual (English/Latin but either/or, and composed that way) "Agnus Dei". There = are "congregational" elements in all of this, answered by the Schola in = polyphony. So far, it's a hit: a compromise, perhaps, but well appreciated. One member of our congregation calls it the "Missa Accidentialis" as it is somewhat = chromatic. As for adapting chant to "Rite II" language, I have learned quite a bit = from Dr. Titcomb's sketchbooks, which are in our library, in which he = transcribed much chant into English. Let's forgive him for ACCOMPANYING it, however.;) Pax, Bill H. Boston.
(back) Subject: Music from the Royal Danish Wedding From: "Jack Martin" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 19:58:36 -0700 (PDT) Roger Brown's comment reminded me -- Does anyone have a list of the music used at the recent royal Danish or Spanish weddings? thanks, Jack Martin Subject: Re: "New York Style" Hymn playing and organ design From: "Roger Brown" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:24:39 +1000 On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:48 pm, Emily Adams wrote: > Since my limited skills don't extend to improvisation, Well in my Anglican tradition, we don't generally improvise hymn introductions - one simply plays all or part of the verse at the speed and in the style that the congregation is expected to sing. So for Nicea, one would aim to convey the two-in-a-bar rhythm that this tune requires if it is not be become dreadfully thumped out. Because I am not accustomed to the Lutheran tradition it was interesting to observe how the organ was used in the recent Danish Royal wedding. Frankly I thought the introductions were rambling and somewhat aimless and did little to prepare the congregation for what was actually to be sung - either in style or spirit. And that was in a context where the rest of the music was superb. Some of the recorded (and published) improvisations by George Thalben-Ball were on the other hand object lessons - usually quite short, well thought out and to the point. That's how it ought to be. -- Roger Brown email@example.com firstname.lastname@example.org http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
(back) Subject: RE: Playing during liturgical events From: "Daniel Hancock" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:04:03 -0500 Alan, upon re-reading your initial response, I think the phrase that really stood out and gave the thing a negative tone for me was "I'm struggling to be nice." Don't worry about it, I just wanted you to know... =20 Daniel =20 Timothy Daniel Hancock =20 Dean, American Guild of Organists, Springfield Chapter Organist, Grace United Methodist Church Organist, St. Agnes Cathedral Church =20 847 South Weller Avenue Springfield, Missouri 65802 417.862.6272 or firstname.lastname@example.org =20 -----Original Message----- From: Alan Freed [mailto:email@example.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 4:49 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Playing during liturgical events =20 On 7/15/04 3:19 PM, "Daniel Hancock" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > I play during the pastoral prayer at the United Methodist Church I play for in=20 > Springfield, Missouri. It's the only time I can use the 8' Dolcan and Celeste=20 > on the neo-baroque instrument--every other single stop eclipses them totally. =20 > And, it's good practice for in-service improvisation, if you aren't used to=20 > doing it. That says it well enough. "Good practice." =20 >=20 > One drawback that if foresee is that it reinforces the idea of organ music as=20 > "background music" during the service, and I'm not too anxious [by "anxious" I think you mean "eager"] to succumb to=20 > that, but otherwise, I enjoy it. >=20 And that nails it down. Get a phonograph. (I'm struggling to be nice.) I'm very willing to talk, civilly, off list, because we've already done it SO many times on list Look at my venue, if you wish, at www.stlukesnyc.org Alan
(back) Subject: Re: Catholic Music From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 23:08:09 EDT Alicia, I would suggest that what you heard was perhaps a poor and clumsy translation, poorly executed. Though we now (again) sing the "Victimae" = in Latin at St. John's, a very good English translation DOES exist. In general, I would = not look to the Latin church for good translations of plainchant, or to its Presbyters for subtile performances thereof. Pax, Bill H.
(back) Subject: Re: the Chant in English, cont. From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <email@example.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 00:21:52 -0500 Bud- I think this is similar to what is in our books, but I find that it lacks much of the poetic beauty of the Latin original. I have heard poetic translations of the sequences set to different - usually familiar- tunes and I personally find this more appealing and easier for congregational singing. Of course, then someone will argue that it is not a literal translation or that the (apparently illiterate) congregation won't understand the poetic words. Alicia Zeilenga -----Original Message----- From: "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: PipeChat <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 16:40:16 -0700 Subject: the Chant in English, cont. > With respect, Alicia, the problem MAY be with some of the current RC > "translations." I find nothing wrong with the following, which is the > standard Anglican translation: > > > > Victimae paschali laudes > Christians, to the Paschal Victim > > Immolent Christiani. > Offer your thankful praises. > > Agnus redemit oves: > A Lamb the sheep redeemeth: > > Christus innocens Patri > Christ, who only is sinless > > Reconciliavit peccatores > Reconcileth sinners to the Father. > > Mors et vita duello > Death and life have contended > > conflixere mirando: > in that combat supendous: > > dux vitae mortuus, regnat vivus. > The Price of life, who died, reigns immortal. > > Dic nobis Maria, > Speak, Mary, declaring > > Quem vidisti in via. > what thou sawest, wayfaring. > > Sepulcrum Christi viventis, > The tomb of Christ, who is living, > > et gloriam vidi resurgentis: > the glory of Jesus' resurrection; > > Angelicos testes, > Bright angels attesting, > > sudarium et vestes. > the shroud and napkin resting. > > Surrexit Christus spes mea: > Yea, Chris my hope is arisen: > > praecedet suos in Galilaeam. > To Galilee he goes before you. > > Scimus Christum surrexisse > Christ indeed from death is risen, > > a mortuis vere: > our new life obtaining: > > tu nobis, victor Rex, miserere. > Have mercy, victor King, ever reigning. > > Amen, alleluia. > > > > I became EXTREMELY frustrated when the RC church first changed to > English ... they REFUSED (as a matter of PRINCIPLE, mind you) to look > at > ANYTHING the Anglicans had done since 1549 ... five hundred years' > experience with the vernacular liturgy (AND the existence of the > Graduale in ENGLISH for OVER a hundred years) was IGNORED because (as > Cardinal Ratzinger so inelegantly put it later), the Anglicans were not > an "authentic church" ... therefore everything from 1549 to 1964 was > invalid in Rome's eyes. > > Rome could have learned a GREAT deal about vernacular liturgy from both > the Anglicans AND the Lutherans ... but instead, the Sacred > Congregation > of Rites chose to re-invent the wheel. Forty years later, the end > result > is apparent. > > Cheers, > > Bud > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > Administration: mailto:email@example.com > List-Subscribe: <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:email@example.com> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> >
(back) Subject: Dr. Nathan Carter From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 01:26:28 EDT This afternoon, the great composer and choral conductor, Dr. Nathan = Carter, who was professor of music at Morgan State University in Maryland, passed = away after a long battle with cancer. Viewing will take place next Tuesday at = New Shiloh Baptist Church in Baltimore, where Rev. Dr. Harold Carter = (brother of the deceased) is the Pastor, from the hours of 12:00-7:00 pm with = music offered by various musicians. The funeral service will be next Wednesday = at 11:00 AM at New Shiloh Church with music rendered by the Morgan State = Concert Choir, and a visitation one hour prior. Dr. Carter is known for his many = choral anthems and arrangements of spirituals, and of late for some of = his works which have been published through GIA's African American Choral Series. While known for his work in the African-American church world, his music = was far reaching and death will be a loss. Monty Bennett Friendship Baptist Church Charlotte, NC
(back) Subject: Re: Hymn Intros, Text Painting, and stuff... From: "Harry Grove" <email@example.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 08:37:57 +0100 Dear 'Stymied', ----- Original Message ----- From: <RMB10@aol.com> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:10 PM Subject: Hymn Intros, Text Painting, and stuff... > >And while I am at it, I am VERY wary about text painting - unless one = is possessed of great discretion, >> The above quote makes me wonder if we do things so differently in the States than in other countries. ______________________________________ Yes, abso-bloomin'-lutely. Hollywood has so much to answer for. And, while we're at it ............. "text painting" ................... ? It must be something I've missed during the last fifty-something years - what is it ? And, to reiterate an earlier question; why the reference to Leg-Before-Wicket ? ______________________________________ As for the gay Mademoiselle whom you mention being 'locked' into her familiar playing pattern, it is one which organists throughout the world will find familiar as their own. Just as, presumably, you are 'locked' into yours; one which seems to other fellows more to resemble the (gaudy ?) showmanship of Liberace (another Hollywood reference, there). This is not meant to demean your efforts in any way; they are simply your cultural "own". Different strokes for different folks, and all that. Harry Grove [a somewhat at-a-loss 'musicman'- a.k.a. 'stymied']