PipeChat Digest #4624 - Saturday, July 17, 2004
 
Re: Who was taking about tonepainting?
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
some REAL evangelical service-playing
  by "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com>
Re: hymn playing and subtilty
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Who was taking about tonepainting?
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: the Chant in English, cont.
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Re: Playing during liturgical events
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
RE: Re: Playing during liturgical events
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
(no subject)
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: Playing during liturgical events
  by "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org>
Re: (no subject)
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
silence
  by "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: hymn playing
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
Re: "Lights ... Cameras ... ACTION!!!"
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
mp3: Labole Sym mvt 3 Aria
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
Re: some REAL evangelical service-playing
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Re: some REAL evangelical service-playing
  by "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Who was taking about tonepainting? From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:14:57 -0400   on 7/16/04 5:08 PM, Alan Freed at acfreed0904@earthlink.net wrote:   A quote I just ran across in the Italian renaissance madrigal context:   breaking up the metrical flow of the text into disparate musical events, triggered by particular words or phrases that invite abrupt changes in = mood, tempo or dynamics. Phrases like "my soul takes flight" and "I am alive" bring an excitable flurry of semiquavers, whereas a key word like "pain" = is sufficient to commence a sequence of dark and anguished chromatic progressions. It's this pervasive sense of restlessness and = unpredictability which, when allied to a highly inventive use of chromatic details and dissonances   Alan   That's a strange coincidence. A very similar description of word-painting in the Italian madrigals of Gesualdo appears on the site a I reference a little early this afternoon. Great minds....     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: some REAL evangelical service-playing From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:26:13 -0700   "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net> said,   =3D-> If you want to hear some REAL evangelical service-playing, listen to an African-American organist on a B-3 underscore EVERY SINGLE POINT of a SERMON ... it's AMAZING what they do, and WITHOUT the sermon text in front of them. <-=3D       Some of us "white folk" can do that, too. And do.   ~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~ Charlie Lester    
(back) Subject: Re: hymn playing and subtilty From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:30:40 -0400   On 7/16/04 2:54 PM, "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote:   > it was so subtle that one was BARELY aware of it.   And surely you are saying that almost everyone had NO awareness of it.   But it was there anyway.   But, of course, it did its job anyway.   Alan      
(back) Subject: Re: Who was taking about tonepainting? From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 19:08:42 -0400   On 7/16/04 5:14 PM, "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> wrote:   > That's a strange coincidence. A very similar description of = word-painting in > the Italian madrigals of Gesualdo appears on the site a I reference a = little > early this afternoon. Great minds.... > >   No. After I posted that, I realized that it was very likely from what YOU had referenced on this very LIST!   The credit must go to you (and to YOUR sources, not mine).   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: the Chant in English, cont. From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 18:14:26 -0500   Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications wrote:   > There is a WONDERFULLY syrupy Victorian musical setting [of the Dies > ir=E6] (by John Bacchus Dykes?)   The century old "Methodist Hymn Book with Tunes" has Fr. Irons' translations set to the plainsong, harmonized by one C. C. Spence. Probably not a nom de plume of Dykes, as a number of Dykes other tunes appear in the volume.   ns        
(back) Subject: Re: Re: Playing during liturgical events From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:02:01 EDT   >> >The PIPE organ is the glue that holds the service together.   ><shaking head> Monty, Monty, Monty...why? :)   >Jeff   Well..... the first answer that comes to my head is, "why not" :) The other more sarcastic answer is, because I can. LOL Seriously, though, let the pipes speak...it could be worse...it could be = the praise band leading the service and the pipe organ could be looming over = the sanctuary like it does at one of my former churches where it doesn't = utter nearly the kind of sound like it did when I used to preside over it's monstrous 5 manual console. (and most all of you know to which church I = refer) Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: RE: Re: Playing during liturgical events From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 19:23:21 -0500     > Seriously, though, let the pipes speak...it could be worse...it > could be the > praise band leading the service and the pipe organ could be > looming over the > sanctuary like it does at one of my former churches where it > doesn't utter > nearly the kind of sound like it did when I used to preside over it's > monstrous 5 manual console. (and most all of you know to which > church I refer)   I guess I view worship as two or more gathered in His name, no matter whether it be the grandest of cathedrals with a thunderous pipe organ, or the small country church with a piano, or the woods on a youth gathering with acappella singing, or a service of the word with no music at all...   Doesn't matter what makes the music; doesn't matter what kind of bread or wine/juice you use; doesn't matter who speaks the words...etc   Respectfully, Jeff   PS: I was just ribbing you about starting the ol' p vs e war. :)    
(back) Subject: (no subject) From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:43:23 EDT   quilisma@cox.net wrote:   > > If you want to hear some REAL evangelical service-playing, listen to an > African-American organist on a B-3 underscore EVERY SINGLE POINT of a > SERMON ... it's AMAZING what they do, and WITHOUT the sermon text in > front of them.   That style is a whole other animal...and the intersting thing is that it's = not necessarily limited to Black churches. White Pentecostal churches (of = various ilks--Church of God, Assemblies of God, Free Will Baptist, etc.) = are prone to do it just as much. It's based more on the emotional feel of = what's going on. The preacher and the musician play off of each other, so = there's no need for a sermon text, because the preacher generally doesn't have a = sermon text in front of him or her. Our Senior Pastor DOES NOT want any of us = to play during his sermons, but some of the younger Assoc. Ministers like = it, so we sometimes do it depending on who is preaching. However, since we have = this image as a "stuffy, uptown" church, some of the older members of the congregation don't like it when we do it. We were only given permission = in the last four or so years to allow drums and bass in the church. It used to be = organ and piano only. Pipe organ for everything except Gospel numbers which = the Hammond was used for. It's kind of fun to wail away on the Hammond when = a preacher is "a hollerin' " because the electrcity that bounces back and = forth between the preacher, the congregation and the musician can not be = explained, it has to be experienced. I know that Charlie Lester knows what I'm = talking about. It's part of the whole "Bapticostal" experience. Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: Playing during liturgical events From: "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:17:42 +1000   On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 04:24 am, RMB10@aol.com wrote: > =A0The PIPE > organ is the glue that holds the service together. =A0The improvised > interludes, underscores, and filler "slush" that transition one event to > another   What a horrible concept. Haven't you guys ever realised that SILENCE can be= =20 golden?   =2D-=20 Roger Brown robrown@melbpc.org.au roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org  
(back) Subject: Re: (no subject) From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 21:31:57 EDT     > It's based more on the emotional feel of what's > going on. The preacher and the musician play off of each other,   This is an example of the "call-response" technique (for lack of a better word). It can be very effective, when authentic. Not wholly unlike what = a good theater organist does.   That there may not be a sermon text does not imply a lack of preparation.   My 2 pfarthings worth.   Neil by the Bay  
(back) Subject: silence From: "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 19:47:05 -0700   Silence in the sense of no music in the old anglo-catholic service was limited to (possibly) the Prayer of Consecration, IF it wasn't said silently while the choir continued with the Sanctus and Benedictus.   The idea of silence DURING the liturgy has no historical basis ... the Roman Tridentine / Anglican Missal Solemn Mass is basically TWO liturgies, as it is in the Eastern Church to this day: the PUBLIC liturgy, sung without pause by the sub-deacon, deacon, choir, and OCCASIONALLY the celebrant, and the priest's liturgy at the altar, which is said "submissa voce".   When Gospel processions were re-introduced, it became customary for the organist to improvise while the sanctuary party returned to the sanctuary; I much prefer singing one of the post-Gospel acclamations from the Gallican Rite, or a seasonal text ... "By thy Cross and Resurrection thou hast set us free; save us and help us who sing to thee, alleluia, alleluia, alleluia."   St. Matt's congregation were particularly fond of those, so of COURSE the rector did away with them.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: hymn playing From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 00:09:07 EDT   Being in a Baptist Church and not using the Lutheran Book of Worship, we = sing every verse of the hymns. The pianist and I can both modulate and play = "by ear" and transpose, so we sometimes look at each other and go up a step on = the last verse. I usually change the registration on each verse, according to = the text of the hymn. Free accompaniments on the last verse are out when you play with a pianist, unless it is already printed and both have the same = copy. At one church service I heard the organist play the introduction on the = chimes. I have several books of accompaniments, interludes, free accompaniments, etc. but seldom use them so as not to confuse everyone. I have been = playing more contemporary hymn tune arrangements for the Prelude, however sneaking in = some Bach, Pachelbel, Karg Elert, etc. occasionally. (Greg, I know this is not much help) Lee  
(back) Subject: Re: "Lights ... Cameras ... ACTION!!!" From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:38:32 -0500   > (Not, mind you, that there's anything wrong with a bit of > theatre in church -- as "High Church Smells and Bells > Anglicans" have known, and done, for centuries: What IS all > that pomp and pageantry if it is not THEATRE? It most > certainly is not the way Jesus "Had Church" -- he seemed to > prefer sitting under a tree or standing in a boat. And I > don't recall ever seeing any portraits of him bedecked in > "High Liturgical Drag.")   I liked your post, including this part, but this part made me think of something as food for more thought. The "church" as the Bible defines it did not exist when Jesus was alive on earth. So Jesus, really, didn't = "have church". The church age began after his resurrection -- really at the pentacost. It seems these days more than ever, people are saying we need = to be less churchy and have church the way Jesus would have had it. Well, = this is not entirely invalid, but as far as specially how a church should operate, if we're looking for Biblical examples, we would do better to = look at Paul, Peter, Timothy, Titus, etc who were the first church leaders. = They worshipped God through Christ, but their mission was slightly different = than Christ's. Jesus Christ's job was to save the world. The church's job is simply to tell the world about Christ. He'll take care of the saving.   How, then, should we worship? Well, I don't know! Like I said, just food =   for thought! :)   Andy     A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: mp3: Labole Sym mvt 3 Aria From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:26:05 -0700   This is the 3rd mvt of the Labole Symphonie   http://www.blackiris.com/orwig/labole_sym_mvt_3_aria.mp3 (4995kb) Enjoy!   Jonathan Orwig http://www.blackiris.com/orwig (personal site) http://www.evensongmusic.net (publishing site with mp3 examples)         --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 7/9/2004
(back) Subject: Re: some REAL evangelical service-playing From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 08:11:06 +0100   Do I take this to mean that the organist is playing DURING the sermon ?   Why? Is this not a rude thing to do?   How can you concentrate on what is being said?   It seems as bad as shopping these days with different musical styles bombarding you from each unit as you walk down a Mall (NOT that I do that sort of thing more than once a year). Apparently folks these days NEED some sort of noise in the background whatever they're doing. Silence and the opportunity to contemplate = frightens them, apparently.   I thank God that I live a some distance from other folks (all part of my 'cunning plan') and have "The Sound of Silence" (i.e. 'Nature') as my constant companion. Don't worry about my sanity; I always make the point when villagers say = "But you live 'OUTSIDE' the village ...... "Yes, but then, who'd want ME as = their next-door-neighbour".   Harry G   [a.k.a. musicman]   ---- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Lester" <crl@137.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 10:26 PM Subject: some REAL evangelical service-playing     > "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net> > said, > > =3D-> If you want to hear some REAL evangelical > service-playing, listen to an African-American organist on a > B-3 underscore EVERY SINGLE POINT of a SERMON ... it's > AMAZING what they do, and WITHOUT the sermon text in front > of them.      
(back) Subject: Re: some REAL evangelical service-playing From: "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:24:30 +1000   On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 05:11 pm, Harry Grove wrote:   > Apparently folks these days NEED some sort of noise in the background > whatever they're doing. Silence and the opportunity to contemplate > frightens them, apparently.   Exactly so.   And when we reach that point, it devalues the organ, it devalues the music = and it devalues the liturgy.   Improvisation is fine (and indeed can be inspiring in the right hands) providing /it's place in the liturgy is meaningful AND the player has something worthwhile to say/.   But not as an ever present muzac.   -- Roger Brown robrown@melbpc.org.au roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org