PipeChat Digest #4632 - Monday, July 19, 2004
 
Re: some REAL evangelical service-playing
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: communion packets
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: communion packets
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Re: some REAL evangelical service-playing
  by <reedstop@charter.net>
Re: T shirts needed!!
  by "Stephen Barker" <steve@sbarker.net>
re: Loud Organs in Buffalo
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
IRC Reminder
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: T shirts needed!!
  by "Brent Johnson" <brentmJ@charter.net>
"warm" sounding mechanical-action organs
  by "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net>
Re: "warm" sounding mechanical-action organs
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
harmonized Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary
  by "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: "Catholic" organ specs
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
RE: communion packets
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Eat with the RIGHT hand!
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Let'sbenicemusica
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
communion packets
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: communion packets
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: "warm" sounding mechanical-action organs
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: some REAL evangelical service-playing From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 07:44:06 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 12:10 AM Subject: Re: some REAL evangelical service-playing     > Well, 'Just Curious' Reedstop of charter.net; > > I suppose, being a 'tracker' organ, the bellows are (relatively) close = to me > and so I can hear them plainly, 'cos I know what they sound like. > Plus the fact that 'the beast' is situated on the ground floor (i.e. at > ear-level with the congregation) and so, if I can hear them (even slightly) > then so can everybody else (probably).   When you say you can hear them and you know what they sound like, what actually do they sound like? Do they creak or groan -- a sign that the = ribs are not properly aligned? Or do they leak wind? Or are you hearing the rumble of turbulence from the blower? You should not be hearing any of these, whether the organ is tracker or electric. At QPO we were fairly proud of ourselves that in our 3/55 organ in William Jewell College you cannot hear whether the organ is turned on or not even when standing = inside it next to the reservoirs, since there is no leaking wind to be heard. = And this in spite of the pressures being up to 15" of wind. In fact the only thing you can hear is the faint hum of the fluorescent lights inside the organ when they are turned on.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: communion packets From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:32:44 -0400   On 7/18/04 9:38 PM, "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> wrote:   > Seriously, though, Alan...how else would they have been? Is there a Hebr= ew > tradition that I'm not aware of in partaking of the meal? (Not trying to= be a > smart alek...IMWTK)   Well, Jeff, I don't really know how well "attested" this is, but I've read SO many descriptions of how it was typically done there, in those days. Perhaps not at "ordinary" meals, but certainly at any "important" meal (as which the meal at Pesach would obviously qualify) the men (nobody paid much attention to the women and kids) were gathered at or around a large table. They "reclined" on couch-like things, typically propped up on their right elbow (on a pillow?) and ate with minimal utensils with the left hand. There are scriptural clues indicating that "where one was" (and =B3next to whom=B2) at the table was of some importance. As with even a modern Passover meal, there was more "talk" and "liturgy" (psalms, readings, and prayers) than actual EATING. There were various linens, and such utensils (plates, bowls, wine-glasses) as necessary--usually the best available for THIS meal= .. It was, definitely, a "ceremonial meal" to a degree that we can hardly relate to, I suspect. It took at minimum of two to three hours. The TV wa= s silent. =20   But I can=B9t swear to any of that. Maybe a good Bible Dictionary would describe it, under =B3meals,=B2 =B3eating,=B2 or =B3passover.=B2   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: communion packets From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:36:03 -0400   On 7/19/04 12:32 AM, "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> wrote:   > You leaned on your left elbow   I see Ross is of the "leftist" school of thought. I said it the = "rightist" way. (Typical of me.) I think Ross is probably "right."   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Re: some REAL evangelical service-playing From: <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:02:45 +0000   > From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> > I suppose, being a 'tracker' organ, the bellows are (relatively) close = to me > <SNIP> > And then, although regularly attended to, they're not the newest blowers = 'on-the-block'. > <SNIP> > And finally it is a positive statement that I'm making - that I'm = 'downing-tools' for a bit and that I'm > "joining" the congregation to listen to the sermon. <SNIP>   Harry,   I certainly didn't mean to offend you, if I had. (Hard to tell from the = tone of emails, sometimes) I certainly wasn't saying your reasons weren't = valid. I was just interested in this because I had dealt with a similar = (albeit non-tracker) problem for 10 years at Holy Cross. By your message = snippets above, I take it that the blowers are somewhat noisy (or is it = just the sound of the wind?) So the congregation CAN hear them when = they're running?   One of the things I enjoy at Holy Trinity is that I cannot hear the blower = at all. I don't miss the days of the RR RR RR of the blower...and = somedays were worse than others. I'd sometimes turn the organ back off = and on again to see if it would improve. Sometimes it did. If it came up = quieter, I left it on! :) They tried everything to balance it, and = nothing ever worked.   As to joining the congregation during the sermon, I enjoy this as well. I = usually walk out and sit in the first pew also.   Finally, to the windows being opened: Holy Cross was never = air-conditioned, although the new pastor there is trying to get that going = again. It was always "Even if we put it in, we can't afford to run it." = I'm not sure that was a valid point, but nonetheless, they continue to = swelter in summertime. Another thing I do NOT miss. :) Jeff    
(back) Subject: Re: T shirts needed!! From: "Stephen Barker" <steve@sbarker.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:26:57 +0100   I found a t-shirt last year that had "Big Organ" on the front and a line drawing of a characture pipe organ... doubt it's quite what you're looking for though! LOL   Steve Canterbury UK     John Vanderlee wrote:   > > > Hi List!.. need a quick source for a half dozen T shirts, to give > away. Specifically if it has a Wurltizer organ motif, or secondarily > ANY pipe organ... > > Sources.. anyone?? > > John V > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >    
(back) Subject: re: Loud Organs in Buffalo From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:49:20 EDT   It is little wonder the (sub) - culture of organs, organists, organ music, =   organ building, organ performance, and organ education - higher and HIGHER = - (MM and beyond), alas -- "all things Organ" either gets so little press/news coverage or negative coverage when it gets mention at all.   "We" create our own leaning toward extinction when following, and now = during (given the speed of the computer age) conventions and other Organistic Gatherings, criticism abounds at every turn in the road against one = another - be it personal attacks against organists, organs, acoustics, performance, venue characteristics, meal dislikes, etc.   Can't the fortunate who have opportunity to attend just be grateful? = Perhaps trading places with persons suffering in Sudan (right now) would eliminate =   much, if not all, of the bantering. Wanna give it a shot?   Dale Rider Missouri  
(back) Subject: IRC Reminder From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:07:29 -0400   For those of us not in Buffalo, we shall be having our usual Monday = evening Chat tonight. We invite you all to join in, especially as our numbers = were down last Friday, - due, no doubt to a lot of our regulars being in = Buffalo for the OHS Convention.   We are on tonight, beginning at 9.00 pm Eastern Time   Bob Conway    
(back) Subject: Re: T shirts needed!! From: "Brent Johnson" <brentmJ@charter.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 19:56:35 -0500   The ORGANLive Cafepress store has some t-shirts with a pipe logo on them. Don't know if they would suit your needs, but they're quick. http://www.cafeshops.com/organlive/200392   Brent Johnson ORGANLive - Music of the organ on demand http://www.organlive.com     John Vanderlee wrote:   > > > Hi List!.. need a quick source for a half dozen T shirts, to give > away. Specifically if it has a Wurltizer organ motif, or secondarily > ANY pipe organ... > > Sources.. anyone?? > > John V > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >    
(back) Subject: "warm" sounding mechanical-action organs From: "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:38:45 -0700   Andy, Don't know the organs in your area... contact Geroge Bozeman who builds in New Hampshire.   However, the organ at Old West Church in Boston is a must hear for any organist...one of the most beautiful mechanical-action instruments on the planet, and a masterpiece by Charles Fisk, with several "recyled" bits of pipework no less. Terry    
(back) Subject: Re: "warm" sounding mechanical-action organs From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:35:20 -0500   Well, I admit that in my area most of the tracker organs are either pre-EP =   era, or neo-baroque era. I have met George Bozeman and listened to one of =   his small organs, which was very nice but not warm by any stretch. But it =   was not a recent opus. I have not heard the latest work by fisk, etc. Though I'm not sure I really count organs like Fisk opus 100 as "trackers" =   even though they may call them that and technically the organs do "have" trackers, but not directly connected to the pallets. Not sure what sort = of action Old West Church has but I'll take a look at it on the website and = go listen to it someday if I can!   I guess when I saw that post about the relatively new Ott organ with = squawky upperwork I started to think the tracker builders haven't come very far since the 1970's. But there are no new trackers around here. So you are right... I do need to get out more! But we're talking pretty far out. :)   Recycled bits of pipework doesn't shock me at all. I think it should be done more often!   --Andy   On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:38:45 -0700, terry hicks wrote > Andy, > Don't know the organs in your area... contact Geroge Bozeman who builds > in New Hampshire. > > However, the organ at Old West Church in Boston is a must hear for > any organist...one of the most beautiful mechanical-action > instruments on the planet, and a masterpiece by Charles Fisk, with > several "recyled" bits of pipework no less. Terry > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related > topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>       A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: harmonized Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary From: "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:41:09 -0700   If you want a copy, and you're NOT on my download list, PLEASE e-mail me PRIVATELY.   I've always wanted to work one of these out. It's AMAZING to me that in 1900 RC choirs were expected to fit the LATIN words to a skeleton outline of the chords, AND in RHYTHM. I chose to write it out verse by verse.   How to do it:   If your choir sits SATB on both the decani and cantoris sides:   Dec - Kyrie eleison Can or FULL - Kyrie eleison   Dec - Christe eleison Can or FULL - Christe eleison   Dec - Kyrie eleison Can or FULL - Kyrie eleison   Dec - O Christ, hear us Can or FULL - O Christ, hear us   Dec - O Christ, graciously hear us Can or FULL - O Christ, graciously hear us       (here it gets a little complicated)       Dec - O God, the Father of Heaven FULL - have mercy upon us   Can - O God, the Son, Redeemer of the world FULL - have mercy upon us   Dec - O God, the Holy Ghost, Sanctifier of the faithful FULL - have mercy upon us   Can - O holy, blessed and glorious Trinity, One God FULL - have mercy upon us       (then when you begin the Marian invocations, it goes from side to side the same way)       Dec - Holy Mary FULL - pray for us   Can - Holy Mother of God FULL - pray for us       and so forth.       PLAN B (grin)       Alternate between a solo quartet and the full choir, changing at each double bar       PLAN C (chuckle)       Have one or two chanters sing the MELODY ONLY of the invocations, the full choir answering in harmony.       The POINT is to change groups of singers at each double bar, so that part of the choir gets to REST (grin). The charm is in the antiphonal singing, not the very simple chords of the music. The tempo should be BRISK and RELENTLESS ... that's what creates the hypnotic quality of litanies.       Cheers,       Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: "Catholic" organ specs From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:43:49 EDT   Edward George Power  
(back) Subject: RE: communion packets From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:09:03 +1200   >They "reclined" on couch-like things, typically propped up on their = right elbow (on a pillow?) and ate with minimal utensils with the left hand. = =A0=20   Oh no. No one from the Middle East would dream of eating using the left hand, as that was used for, how shall we put it delicately, cleansing operations once a day. You propped yourself on your left elbow and used = the right hand for food.   Your country may use the word "kack-handed" meaning "left-handed". It's certainly in use here. It was called that because, well, it was used to clean up the kack. Gradually here, though, "kack-handed" is coming to = mean merely incompetent or clumsy, in reference to either hand.   More than you needed to know?   Ross   --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.722 / Virus Database: 478 - Release Date: 18/07/2004 =20    
(back) Subject: Eat with the RIGHT hand! From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:17:50 -0400   On 7/19/04 6:09 PM, "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> wrote:   > No one from the Middle East would dream of eating using the left hand, = as that > was used for, how shall we put it delicately, cleansing operations once = a day. > You propped yourself on your left elbow and used the right hand for = food.   Your correction, which I doubt NOT, is received gratefully!   Thankee!   Alan, who STILL receives the Host on his RIGHT palm    
(back) Subject: Re: Let'sbenicemusica From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:33:20 EDT   Dearest DERREINETOR@aol.com: I have just returned from Buffalo, ears still ringing with gritty=20 upperwork and the vulgarity of so many artificial 32' stops, to read your sc= athing=20 assessment of me and my response to M. Hines of Chicago. Let's chat. As you have very clearly demonstrated, a public forum exposes the poster= =20 to the inevitability of receiving responses, valid or not, by other=20 participants, whether they be M. Hines, yourself, or moi-m=EAme. All of us p= ost freely,=20 and take the risk that others will disagree with us. It was my opinion that=20= the=20 months of chaotic, rambling posts which (up until that point) had culminated= =20 in a shocking equation of two disparate expressions of instrument building w= ere=20 no longer worth our attention. You disagree. I am glad that you can make=20 sense of these things. I find them frustrating and a danger to our art and=20 profession. Regarding the spelling of " Desiree' ": You are quite correct; I should not have called attention to the=20 misspelling. By law, one can spell one's name however one pleases, discardin= g=20 centuries of French tradition and placing accents wherever one pleases. If o= ne can=20 re-invent the self, one can re-invent the name. So be it. Regarding the music: M. Hines goes to great length to post about the music they have written=20 and arranged, where it is available, and when it is performed. M. Hines has=20 also stated that the music requires vast tonal resources in order to be prop= erly=20 performed. What you view as hubristic was merely a confirmation of M. Hines'= =20 requirements, as stated by M. Hines themself.=20 When I transcribe a work, perform a recital, publish and article, delive= r=20 a lecture, or build a pipe organ, I am open to as much criticism as anybody=20 else who takes that risk. The same goes for M. Hines, as well as anybody in=20 academia or the performing arts. I realize that I am re-entering this discussion late, having had no=20 internet access during the OHS convention. I can assure you that I received=20= many,=20 many dozens of private responses to my post, and shall surely not stoke the=20 firepit. Besides, M. Hines has moved on to a new subject. Quoting from their post= ,=20 "OK...here was my typical regime of hymn playing at Pacific Lutheran U on th= e=20 Fritts."=20 Is that the evil totalitarian regime that forced them to play the Wilcox= =20 descants???   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City   ..  
(back) Subject: communion packets From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:26:49 -0500   Ok, which part of "This is off-topic" are we having trouble understanding?   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: communion packets From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 07:45:26 +0800   That expression is certainly in use in Australia also, Ross, but we would spell it with an initial "c". BE. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 6:09 AM Subject: RE: communion packets     > Your country may use the word "kack-handed" meaning "left-handed". It's certainly in use here. It was called that because, well, it was used to clean up the kack. Gradually here, though, "kack-handed" is coming to mean merely incompetent or clumsy, in reference to either hand.   More than you needed to know?   Ross      
(back) Subject: Re: "warm" sounding mechanical-action organs From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:51:21 -0500   I am sorry, but you have been misinformed about the Fisk servo pneumatic, and you are misinforming others. We service OP 101 at SMU, and the = trackers certainly are connected to the pallets. As a matter of fact, there is a stop so that one can play with the pneumatic assist on or off   All of this has little to do with "warmth" of sound. You have not = explained what you mean by that term, but I assume you mean a fundamental, rich = sound with large scales, copious winding, and smooth, nicked voicing. This certainly can be accomplished with slider chests and mechanical action, as many of the 19th century American organs will attest. Many of us have = moved in that direction in recent years, after many years of disillusion with = dead acoustics and what we were taught in the 60's and 70's.. Others builders, however, have taken different approaches; some staying with basically neo-baroque schemes, and others choosing one or another period of organbuilding to imitate. I think there is less "dogma" in organbuilding today. Many of us that began as basically tracker organbuilders have = built as many electric actions as mechanical in recent years, as suits the specific situation. The variety of organ styles being built today in = this country is amazing. I believe that if you look around, you will find a large number of new mechanical and electric action organs that have a sufficiently "warm" = sound for your taste. Roy Redman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 3:35 PM Subject: Re: "warm" sounding mechanical-action organs     > Well, I admit that in my area most of the tracker organs are either = pre-EP > era, or neo-baroque era. I have met George Bozeman and listened to one = of > his small organs, which was very nice but not warm by any stretch. But = it > was not a recent opus. I have not heard the latest work by fisk, etc. > Though I'm not sure I really count organs like Fisk opus 100 as = "trackers" > even though they may call them that and technically the organs do "have" > trackers, but not directly connected to the pallets. Not sure what sort of > action Old West Church has but I'll take a look at it on the website and go > listen to it someday if I can! > > I guess when I saw that post about the relatively new Ott organ with squawky > upperwork I started to think the tracker builders haven't come very far > since the 1970's. But there are no new trackers around here. So you = are > right... I do need to get out more! But we're talking pretty far out. = :) > > Recycled bits of pipework doesn't shock me at all. I think it should be > done more often! > > --Andy > > On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:38:45 -0700, terry hicks wrote > > Andy, > > Don't know the organs in your area... contact Geroge Bozeman who = builds > > in New Hampshire. > > > > However, the organ at Old West Church in Boston is a must hear for > > any organist...one of the most beautiful mechanical-action > > instruments on the planet, and a masterpiece by Charles Fisk, with > > several "recyled" bits of pipework no less. Terry > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related > > topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: > mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > > > A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service > PO Box 111 > Burlington, VT 05402 > (802)578-3936 > Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > >