PipeChat Digest #4633 - Tuesday, July 20, 2004
 
Re: "warm" sounding mechanical-action organs
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: "warm" sounding mechanical-action organs
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
organ tone & design
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
2004 Church Music Summit--x post
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
re: Loud Organs in Buffalo - back to LA
  by <HndsmredLB@aol.com>
T-Shirts needed
  by "John Jarvis" <JLJarvis@comcast.net>
Re: Re: some REAL evangelical service-playing
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: Re: "warm" sounding mechanical-action organs From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:10:24 -0500   Ok, I'm reasonably convinced. There are no new organs being built in Vermont, electric action or mechanical. Not for a long time. So I can = only go on what I hear throught the gravevine, etc, and someone said a new tracker they played was all screechy. Sounds like this is not necessarily =   the norm these days, thank goodness. I am fully aware that mechanical action does not necessitate a harsh sound. Only observing that many mechanical action organs have been built that way. (Sure, plenty of electric action organs have been too).   Yes, by warm I mean good sized foundations, ample 16' pedal tone, lush strings, mixtures that sparkle, not obliterate, etc. As opposed to thin foundations and screaming upperwork, chiff everywhere. etc.   Andy   On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:51:21 -0500, Roy Redman wrote > I am sorry, but you have been misinformed about the Fisk servo > pneumatic, and you are misinforming others. We service OP 101 at > SMU, and the trackers certainly are connected to the pallets. As a > matter of fact, there is a stop so that one can play with the > pneumatic assist on or off > > All of this has little to do with "warmth" of sound. You have not explained > what you mean by that term, but I assume you mean a fundamental, > rich sound with large scales, copious winding, and smooth, nicked > voicing. This certainly can be accomplished with slider chests and > mechanical action, as many of the 19th century American organs will > attest. Many of us have moved in that direction in recent years, > after many years of disillusion with dead acoustics and what we were > taught in the 60's and 70's.. Others builders, however, have taken > different approaches; some staying with basically neo-baroque > schemes, and others choosing one or another period of organbuilding > to imitate. I think there is less "dogma" in organbuilding today. > Many of us that began as basically tracker organbuilders have built > as many electric actions as mechanical in recent years, as suits the > specific situation. The variety of organ styles being built today > in this country is amazing. I believe that if you look around, you > will find a large number of new mechanical and electric action > organs that have a sufficiently "warm" sound for your taste. Roy Redman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 3:35 PM > Subject: Re: "warm" sounding mechanical-action organs > > > Well, I admit that in my area most of the tracker organs are either = pre- EP > > era, or neo-baroque era. I have met George Bozeman and listened to = one of > > his small organs, which was very nice but not warm by any stretch. = But it > > was not a recent opus. I have not heard the latest work by fisk, etc. > > Though I'm not sure I really count organs like Fisk opus 100 as "trackers" > > even though they may call them that and technically the organs do = "have" > > trackers, but not directly connected to the pallets. Not sure what = sort > of > > action Old West Church has but I'll take a look at it on the website = and > go > > listen to it someday if I can! > > > > I guess when I saw that post about the relatively new Ott organ with > squawky > > upperwork I started to think the tracker builders haven't come very = far > > since the 1970's. But there are no new trackers around here. So you = are > > right... I do need to get out more! But we're talking pretty far out. :) > > > > Recycled bits of pipework doesn't shock me at all. I think it should = be > > done more often! > > > > --Andy > > > > On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:38:45 -0700, terry hicks wrote > > > Andy, > > > Don't know the organs in your area... contact Geroge Bozeman who = builds > > > in New Hampshire. > > > > > > However, the organ at Old West Church in Boston is a must hear for > > > any organist...one of the most beautiful mechanical-action > > > instruments on the planet, and a masterpiece by Charles Fisk, with > > > several "recyled" bits of pipework no less. Terry > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related > > > topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: > > mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > > > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > > > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > > > > > > > A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service > > PO Box 111 > > Burlington, VT 05402 > > (802)578-3936 > > Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related > topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>       A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: "warm" sounding mechanical-action organs From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:54:36 -0500   Oh, also sorry about the misinformation on the Fisk servopneumatic. = You're right, I was minsinformed apparently. I was told there was no mechanical connection, but that the pallet pneumatically followed the key. I've personally worked on a Fisk organ or two but never an assisted one.   Andy   > On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:51:21 -0500, Roy Redman wrote > > I am sorry, but you have been misinformed about the Fisk servo > > pneumatic, and you are misinforming others. We service OP 101 at > > SMU, and the trackers certainly are connected to the pallets. As a > > matter of fact, there is a stop so that one can play with the > > pneumatic assist on or off > > > > All of this has little to do with "warmth" of sound. You have not > explained > > what you mean by that term, but I assume you mean a fundamental, > > rich sound with large scales, copious winding, and smooth, nicked > > voicing. This certainly can be accomplished with slider chests and > > mechanical action, as many of the 19th century American organs will > > attest. Many of us have moved in that direction in recent years, > > after many years of disillusion with dead acoustics and what we were > > taught in the 60's and 70's.. Others builders, however, have taken > > different approaches; some staying with basically neo-baroque > > schemes, and others choosing one or another period of organbuilding > > to imitate. I think there is less "dogma" in organbuilding today. > > Many of us that began as basically tracker organbuilders have built > > as many electric actions as mechanical in recent years, as suits the > > specific situation. The variety of organ styles being built today > > in this country is amazing. I believe that if you look around, you > > will find a large number of new mechanical and electric action > > organs that have a sufficiently "warm" sound for your taste. Roy = Redman   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: organ tone & design From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 13:18:33 +1200   There is certainly little relationship between action and tone, except = this one, that it is likely builders will use higher pressures, and therefore more likely smaller toeholes, on electric action than on tracker.   Having said that, I think one of the main problems organbuilders "forgot" during the Screech Period was that organs need fewer ranks of upperwork in dead acoustics than they do in a live building, and that the deader the building the higher the pressure needed, all other things being equal. = There are doubtless all kinds of exceptions, but I think this is OK as a rule of thumb.   Here, for example, I can think of a tracker organ in a 500-seat wooden church that has appallingly dead acoustics. The tracker is on about 2.5 inches wind and has about 20 stops. The instrument has a harsh and nasty sound to it, with quite insufficient bass and harmonic richness within the ranks. A pressure of about 3.75 inches, with bigger scalings, would have been far far better for tone here.   Not too long ago I bought a 5 stop 1m organ from the 1970s. On only about 2.5 inches, it sounded fine in the church it came from, and in the = 220-seat church organ I temporarily added it to, it was also fine. Now, at home = here, 8.4.2.1-1/3.1 is mostly too harsh and the quint sounds awful if used as = part of the wee chorus. The rest of my organ will have considerably less upperwork than it would if it were in a big and reverberant building. I'll be concentrating on more 8fts and 4fts of colourful character rather than lots of upperwork, be it mixtures or mutations.   Too, in the tracker organ mentioned above, there are only a weak 16ft SubBass and a half-length rattly reed with very little fundamental. The organ that was formerly there had TCLewis 16ft Open Wood (Violone tone), SubBass and a later Echo Bourdon. It was not at all bottom-heavy, but the Violone would not have been necessary if there had been some = reverberation.   In another church I can think of, brick though with hopelessly dead acoustics and seating about 900, the organ is from the late 1920s though = of bright and clear tone. It was rebuilt to my design in the early 1970s. = There are both 16ft Open Wood and Open Metal on the Pedal, along with 16ft = SubBass and Echo Bourdon, while the 16ft reed is a full-length Trombone in metal. Most of the organ is on about 4" wind and all creates a most wonderful sound. As the organ had only a "Mixture" of 12th and 15th on the one slide as Great upperwork, I had these made able to be drawn separately (still on the slider chest), and added two Mixtures, though of only 2rks each = (19.22) and (26.29) (also both of these stops on the big slider chest). I kept = both 8ft Open Diapasons there. If the church had been very live, that would = have been too much bass and not enough treble.   I can think of a 7stop organ, fully enclosed, in a small rural church seating about 110. The organ is pre-WWII and on some 4.5" pressure. The organ has not been voiced loudly and with its scaling and voicing is = exactly right for that church, even if there is nothing above 4ft and there are = just 3 stops on each manual and 1 on the Pedal.   There are many exceptions, certainly, but I think this is the way to go. = If starting from scratch, there is no reason at all why fine organs can't be built in almost any kind of acoustics in any kind of building. It's when people begin to get doctrinaire, by their actions showing they design on paper rather than for the building and acoustics they are actually confronted with, that problems develop.   And all of this probably makes me sound as opinionated as anyone else. :-)   Ross       --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.722 / Virus Database: 478 - Release Date: 18/07/2004    
(back) Subject: 2004 Church Music Summit--x post From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:42:42 EDT   Friendship Baptist Church, Charlotte, NC announces it's 3rd annual Church =   Music Summit, with the objective: Transforming Congregational Worship by Affriming Theology, Music and the Arts for the Glory of God. The summit will be conducted November 11-14, 2004 at Friendship Baptist Church, Charlotte, NC and will be led by chief clinicians: Dr. Linda = Hollies, Dr. Tony Leach, Dr. Diane White, Glenn Burleigh, Dr. James Abbington, and V. Michael McKay. There will also be other instructors teaching a wide = variety of classes and discssions on such topics as service playing (pipe organ), Hammond organ techniques for Gospel music, drama, Liturgical = dance/movement classes, choral reading sessions, building a cohesive music ministry = staff, Music and worship in the Old and New Testaments, Unity in Worship: = Pastor/Musician relationships. There will also be displays and vendors on site, representing music publishers, instrument companies, music software companies, etc. Registration is limited to 300. This program is made possible by a grant from the Calvin College Institue = of Christian Worship, with funds provided by the Lilly Endowment. For more information, or to be placed on the mailing list, please call the = Friendship Baptist Church music office (704) 392-0392x117, or you can = email me directly to my church email, which is _mbennett@friendshipcharlotte.org_ (mailto:mbennett@friendshipcharlotte.org) . In the next couple of weeks, = we will have a website up that is dedicated solely to the music summit. Registration forms will be mailed out in the next couple of weeks, so if = you are interested, let us know as soon as possible, and we will put you on the = mailing list. Last year, we had people attend from all over the United States. Monty Bennett Friendship Baptist Church  
(back) Subject: re: Loud Organs in Buffalo - back to LA From: <HndsmredLB@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 00:49:42 EDT   Dale, I second you on this.=A0 I was in LA for the AGO convention...and wait= ing=20 for the busses I always heard negative comments from what seemed to be=20 organists from the old school.=A0 This woman was bad mouthing the organ in R= oyce Hall=20 at UCLA to some man or anyone that would listen to her.=A0 Nothing in her=20 comments were positive.=A0 I just got the feeling that her life and her self= esteem=20 really sucked.=A0 The only thing that made it tolerable for her was to put o= ther=20 organist and their instruments down.=A0   The people I hung out with were very upbeat and positive.=A0 Sure we made ow= n=20 negative comments but, most of the time things were very positive.=A0 I can'= t=20 begin to tell you how we laughed and laughed and laughed.=A0 We laughed so h= ard we=20 pulled muscles in places we didn't know we had.=A0 One of the running jokes=20= was=20 when one of my group had to use the restroom...it was referred to as "findin= g=20 the floating echo."=A0 And of course, the guys from Northwest were a scream!   I met some very famous organists on my trip and they were the coolest=20 people.=A0 I also met some run of the mill organists like myself that play i= n small=20 churches that were thrilled to be there and hear such glorious music.=A0 Thi= s is=20 one guy that was very grateful to be in LA for the AGO convention.=A0 Yeah,=20= the=20 early mornings were not conducive to closing the bar (which I did just about= =20 every night) but, it was one of the funniest and fascinating and most wonder= ful=20 learning experience I've had in a long time.=A0 I can't wait until Chicago 2= 006!   Here's a shout out to Jim and Richard in Chicago!   Mr. Kelly B. Blair     Subject: re: Loud Organs in Buffalo From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:49:20 EDT   It is little wonder the (sub) - culture of organs, organists, organ music, organ building, organ performance, and organ education - higher and HIGHER -= =20 (MM and beyond), alas -- "all things Organ" either gets so little press/news coverage or negative coverage when it gets mention at all.   "We" create our own leaning toward extinction when following, and now during (given the speed of the computer age) conventions and other Organistic Gatherings, criticism abounds at every turn in the road against one another=20= -=20 be it personal attacks against organists, organs, acoustics, performance, venue characteristics, meal dislikes, etc.   Can't the fortunate who have opportunity to attend just be grateful?=A0 Perh= aps trading places with persons suffering in Sudan (right now) would eliminate much, if not all, of the bantering. Wanna give it a shot?   Dale Rider Missouri  
(back) Subject: T-Shirts needed From: "John Jarvis" <JLJarvis@comcast.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:34:32 -0700   The AGO headquarters has an online store that includes some T-Shirts = with the AGO logo on it. It does have some pipes in the logo and you can = usually get these shirts fairly quickly. https://agohq.org/store/index1.html JJ      
(back) Subject: Re: Re: some REAL evangelical service-playing From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:27:29 +0100     ----- Original Message ----- From: <reedstop@charter.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 3:02 PM Subject: Re: Re: some REAL evangelical service-playing   Not even the fleeting(est) thought of offence being taken.   Although (another) one of the problems with 'switching-off' is the delayed thump from a chest / bellows when it empties. The whole process has to be timed with immaculate accuracy so as not to coincide with anything of importance (usually a congregational response).   By the way, where is Holy Cross ? Coincidences pile on top of each other; WE TOO have a Holy Cross nearby. It is a small village (it's not a Hamlet, 'cos it has shops & a Post = Office) and one of the village pubs which has been converted into a 'high-class' eatery by a high-profile chef and now produces food which the locals can't afford, wouldn't recognise as 'home-grown', mightn't be able to order = ('cos its in a foreign language), and would probably be hungry after eating = ('cos of the 'pretty plates' i.e. pretty small). Holy Cross refers to an old market cross and way-marker which was there - way back. 1400's and something.   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a mine of trivial information - musicman]