PipeChat Digest #4640 - Friday, July 23, 2004
organ music for August 15
  by "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Advent 1, Year A, Psalm 122, SATB ( Gregorian / Viadana / Byrd )
  by "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: organ music for August 15
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: organ music for August 15
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
  by "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com>
Re: New York Style Hymn Playing
  by "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Re: Attitude
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
  by "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net>
Why, Cruel Herod, Shouldst Thou Fear? (Epiphany) Gregorian / Victoria SAT
  by "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net>
pleasing this career.
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Ave Maria, Ave Maris Stella/Saint-Martin
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
RE: Titelouze
  by "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>

(back) Subject: organ music for August 15 From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 14:03:08 -0700   Didn't we just do this?   Langlais - Ave Maria / Ave maris stella (3 Gregorian Paraphrases) Dupre - Antiphons, Ave maris stella, Magnificat Tournemire - L'Orgue Mystique (Aug. 15) Boellmann - Priere a Notre Dame - Gothic Suite Titelouze - Ave maris stella, Magnificat - Guilmant "Maitres" series Pachelbel - Magnificat (there are a zillion) Bach - Magnificat (misc. chorale preludes) Bach - My Soul Doth Magnify the Lord (Schuebler Chorales) Guilmant - Induit justitiam - L'Organiste Practique Guilmant - ??? - L'Organiste Liturgique - forget what, but there's = something Dandrieu - Magnificat - Guilmant "Maitres" series Buxtehude - Magnificat primi toni Liszt - Prelude on Arcadelt's "Ave Maria"   There are two nice postludes on Mass IX (de BMV) in an old volume called "Organ Postludes On All The Deo Gratiases" (World Library of Sacred Music), but it's long out of print. Maybe you could find it in a library.   Cheers   Bud          
(back) Subject: Re: Advent 1, Year A, Psalm 122, SATB ( Gregorian / Viadana / Byrd ) From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 14:06:36 -0700   I ask voluntary DONATIONS of $1 US per page of music, which includes permission to make as many copies as you like, but if you can't afford that, go ahead and sing the music anyway. I'd rather it be USED and PRESERVED. Here's a catalog, such as it is; I'll send you the above title for you to look at.   Cheers,   Bud       CATALOG       I can furnish '28 BCP, '79 BCP, or RCL texts for most things. Samples upon request.       *** Simple SAB Anthems for the Church Year *** *** (for all 52 Sundays and Principal Feasts) ***       RITE I / 1928 BCP / Anglican/American Missal       THE PROPER OF THE MASS - American Missal English texts (Elizabethan = English)   Proper of the Time, Proper of the Saints (Major Holy Days), Common of the Saints (those used on Major Holy Days) - Introits, Graduals, Alleluias, Tracts, Sequences, Offertories, Communions -- available in the following forms:   (1) the original Gregorian melodies, modern notation, English text, no organ accompaniment - most of the Communions, some of the Introits, a few of the Graduals, Alleluias, Tracts and Offertories   (2) Simple modal settings for SATB choir, organ ad lib - most of the Introits, Graduals, Alleluias, Tracts, and Communions   (3) SATB fauxbourdons, alternating with the solemn versions of the Psalm-Tones -- most of the Introits, Graduals, Alleluias, and Tracts   (4) Simple "composed" settings (available in unison, SA, SAB, and SATB) - all of the Offertories, some of the Communions.       RITE II         GRADUAL PSALMS for the USA Episcopal Book of Common Prayer, 1979   Years C, A - in progress ... SATB fauxbourdons (Viadana, Lassus, Vittoria, Roff, others) alternating with Gregorian psalmody and simple Gregorian Responds       INTROITS AND GRADUALS/ALLELUIAS for Lutheran Worship (Missouri Synod, = 1980)   Gregorian antiphons, fauxbourdon psalmody, polyphonic alleluias - complete; now being engraved       GRADUAL PSALMS for Lutheran Worship   new commission; I've just begun Year C ... they will be available in plenty of time for each season       RENAISSANCE MOTETS AND HYMNS IN ENGLISH (editions)   A sampling of motets and Office Hymns (Gregorian alternating with polyphony) for Advent, Christmas, Lent, Passiontide, and Holy Week; the rest of the year is "in progress" -- all English texts; mostly Vittoria       HOLY WEEK   complete Manual for SATB choir (American Missal translation)       OCCASIONAL LITURGIES - SATB   Candlemas   Ash Wednesday   Dedication of a Church   Burial Office, Requiem, Absolutions, Graveside Service   Burial of a Child       MASSES (editions)   Mass IX (Gregorian, modern notation, with accompaniment)   Mass of the Quiet Hour - George Oldroyd (string quartet ad lib)   Missa Pastorale - Pietro Yon (woodwind quartet ad lib)   Missa Pro Defunctis - Claudio Casciolini / Matteo Asola - English text       MISC.   Phos hilaron - Clark - SATB Phos hilaron - Arkangelsky - SSAATB   Magnificat and Nunc Dimittis - Gregorian alternating with renaissance polyphony - English text   Psalter - SATB fauxbourdons alternating with Gregorian psalm-tones, noted in full - English texts - most of the Evening Psalter for Sundays of Advent and Lent   I can furnish '28 BCP, '79 BCP, or RCL texts. Samples upon request.   Just ask (grin) ... if I don't HAVE it, I can probably WRITE it.   Donations cheerfully accepted but not necessary. I'd rather the music be SUNG and PRESERVED.   v hatch wrote:   > Could I see that download list,please. Really I don't know what this is =   > about but I read your post below and I wouod like to learn about it. > Thanks. I don't want to obligate myself to something that costs money, > though > . thanks again > >> From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> >> Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >> To: anglican-music@list.stsams.org, PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> >> Subject: Advent 1, Year A, Psalm 122, SATB ( Gregorian / Viadana / Byrd = ) >> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:40:12 -0700 >> >> Going out now to my download list. If you're NOT on my download list >> and want to see it to decide if you'd like to subscribe to the series, >> please e-mail me privately. >> >> THANKS! >> >> Bud >> >> >> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >> List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> >> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> >> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don=92t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> > List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: organ music for August 15 From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 14:12:48 -0700 (PDT)   AHA The Priere a Notre Dame See...Im so used to hearing the Magnificat stuff at Advent. But, Bud...lol...I want stuff my people will enjoy. They don't like so = much Titelouze and Scheideman..as neither do I. So I will do the Lana = Kelley settting of Pleading Savior and the Priere a Notre Dame for = prelude. Would love to hae a big festive toccata setting on something to = toss in for prelude as well. I may improvise on Hail Holy Queen, Enthroned = Above for postlude. The Liszt would be nice for communion distribution. Its hard to find big festive settings on the Marion Tunes that are = familiar...think I will just whip some up.     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
(back) Subject: Re: organ music for August 15 From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:21:34 -0400   On 7/23/04 5:03 PM, "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote:   > Didn't we just do this?   Yes, indeed, we did. Even pore EYE had a line or two to contribute.   We had an "always said" thing in the Navy: "There's always--ALWAYS--somebody who doesn't get 'the word'." (It's a rule, from God himself.)   You are a VERY gracious guy, Bud. Time after time after time.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Attitude From: "Emily Adams" <eadams@cinci.rr.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 18:07:15 -0400   Alan:   You aren't alone in your faux pas--everyone I know who uses electronic communication has misused it at one time or another. That said, I think = it's unfortunate that the type of sentiment you expressed--even though you were intending to do privately--seems to be so widespread among organists.   We do help and support each other in some ways and to some extent, but it seems there's always an undercurrent of willingness to circle like a pack = of hungry wolves, searching for the chance to do harm in some way or another, making ourselves feel a little bit bigger if we can make someone else smaller. Of course people can be incredibly annoying in all sorts of ways, and of course people who love the profession as many of us do can easily become opinionated about the correctness of our own ways of doing things. But I'm not sure that's enough to excuse or even explain this kind of behavior.   It saddens me to know--and I do know--that there are substantial numbers = of my colleagues who would like nothing better than to focus on my having a mere Bachelor's degree, or the lack of prestige of the university I attended, or my admittedly limited technical proficiency. Most of my life = I haven't managed to really give music my best, but right now *is* one of those times. If the prelude I play for my congregation of 40 or so is only = a little piece from the Parish Organist, it's still something I've chosen thoughtfully, registered carefully, practiced diligently and offered with reverence.   I think this is the case for a great many of us, but that judgmentalism = and elitism keep many organists of modest ability behind a wall of fear and shame, afraid to communicate with each other and with more proficient colleagues because inevitably someone somewhere sometime will make a point of letting them know they're just "not that good."   Maybe, as Dr. Phil says, we should all stop and ask ourselves whether = we're contributing to or contaminating our professional relationships and our profession in general by the ways we think and speak about each other.   I'll get off the soapbox now.   Emily A.    
(back) Subject: Re: New York Style Hymn Playing From: "Harry Grove" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 23:12:15 +0100   Re: New York Style Hymn Playing ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Freed=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 8:04 PM Subject: Re: New York Style Hymn Playing   And just when things were getting interesting ..... you all start = apologising to each other in some sort of public display of = self-mortification: but then, this seems to be the modern way of things, = with people unable or unwilling to make strong public statements - and = then again, "we get the politicians that we deserve" (and on both sides = of the Pond).   Now for the BIG problem; how to make this post on-topic, in a musical = context.   Hummm; could philosophise on hell-fire sermons .... But, instead, make up mind to mention how many delightful e-mails I am = receiving from distinguished clergy of late. As part of my commitment to = my church, I publish our web-site; and this includes the Intercessions = for the week. Since I am publishing that 'we' are praying for certain = churches and their leaders, I e-mail them to let them know that they are = in our prayers; and I am surprised/impressed by how many of the 'great = and the good' have taken the time to reply with their appreciation = (including one Archbishop who e-mailed me back from a 7-47 - how's THAT = for progress.)   Sorry folks, still not 'on-topic'; so I'll sign off.   Harry Grove [a.k.a. a frustrated musicman]
(back) Subject: Re: Attitude From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 18:37:51 EDT   In a message dated 7/23/2004 6:08:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, eadams@cinci.rr.com writes:   > we think and speak about each other. > >   I find that my frustration comes from the self promoters or perhaps the = one whose family or friend has deigned to anoint the next "god." Those of us = who do more than the parish organist but less than the National Cathedral every = week get the same treatment along the way. I invite you to live my recent week = at the LA AGO convention.   The good thing on this list is that in the end, it continues to appear = that we really do "love" each other and our careers and our goals and our instrument. We all learn from everything we read.   no soapbox, just a thank you to the list owners for a place to be "me".   dale very warm in Florida  
(back) Subject: Titelouze From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:04:37 -0700   Four points about Titelouze:   1. Guilmant IS a good source (is there another??) as far as the NOTES .... you have to ignore the phrasing, registration, and what he puts on a separate staff in the pedal.   2. While the style of ornamentation is somewhat DIFFERENT from Couperin, you still have to ornament it, apply notes inegales, etc. to make it come alive.   3. Douglass makes distinctions in "The Language of the French Classical Organ" between registrations of the EARLY French baroque and the LATE French baroque; we don't have such luxuries with most of our American organs ... we're lucky to HAVE two AUDIBLE Cornets (chuckle) ... so the same basic registrations apply:   Plein Jeu - Principals 16-8-4-mixtures in the manual(s), with the c.f. in the Pedale on Trompette 8', Clairon 4', and Flutes 8-4, which more resembled Diapasons, as they were BIG and OPEN ... usually on American organs, you have to pull ALL the 8-4 flues in the Pedal, and possibly couple the flues and reeds from the Swell as well, to get ENOUGH weight for the c.f. ... those were some BIG honkin' pedal stops (grin).   Grand Jeu - Great Bourdon 8, OCTAVE (*not* flute) 4, Nazard, FLUTE (*not* Principal) 2', Tierce, Trompette, Clairon; Positive Bourdon 8, Principal 4, Nazard, Flute 2, Tierce, Larigot, (Trompette), Cromorne, (Clairon), (manuals coupled).   If the Great has a Gross Tierce 3 1/5 or a Gross Nazard 5 1/3, draw them, but there is NO 16' in the manuals; if the pedal is used for big reaches, there is NO 16' in the pedals EITHER.   The rest is pretty standard ...   dialogues between the cornet and the Cromorne ( + Bourdon and Prestant, perhaps),   dialoges between Voix humaine (+ Bourdon, Nazard, Tierce, perhaps) and Bourdon 8 + Prestant 4 ...   remember the French Baroque Voix humaine was out in the OPEN on the GREAT windchest, and it was BIG ... you might be better off using a German Positiv Krumhorn.   There might be a second SMALLER Voix humaine on the short compass Recit, but the MAIN one was on the GREAT ...   dialogues between the G.O. Trompette ( + Clairon, Bourdon, Prestant) and the Positif Bourdon and Prestant.   REMEMBER: there is NEVER 16' tone in a French baroque pedal part. It didn't exist, and there was no way to GET it. The "ravalment" downward extension of the 8' REED(s) in the Pedale provided a quasi-10 2/3 bass (usually down to G).   The "Resonance" divisions of VERY *late* baroque French organs (a third or fourth manual which DID contain 16' stops and was PERMANENTLY coupled to the Pedale) were few and far between, and were the EXCEPTION, *not* the rule.   I don't recall now, but I THINK Cavaille-Coll in the 19th century was among the first to build full-compass 16' or 32' pedals in France ...   (Much the same was true in England ... Willis, Wesley, and Mendelssohn were responsible for the introduction of pedals of ANY kind in English organs ... English organs made do with a quasi-10 2/3 bass, as the keyboards extended to G below our low C of present-day manual keyboard).   If you analyze the chord structure of ANY French Plein Jeu movement, you'll find that the REAL bass is in the MANUALS. If you add 16' to the c.f. in the TENOR range in the PEDALS, you get false inversions of the chords.   4. Titelouze, like ALL French baroque organ music (with the exception of Offertoires and Elevations), was NOT intended to be played movement after movement without pause. The choir interpolated alternate verses, singing the chant melody. Doing the Magnificat that way at Solemn Vespers works, if they take their time doing the incensations (grin).   Cheers,   Bud          
(back) Subject: Why, Cruel Herod, Shouldst Thou Fear? (Epiphany) Gregorian / Victoria SATB From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:30:41 -0700   I have just posted this to my download list ... it's the third in my series of Victoria Office Hymns for the Church Year. If you want it, e-mail me privately.   THANKS!   Bud      
(back) Subject: pleasing this career. From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:40:55 -0700 (PDT)   Being an organist has probably been very hard when you are different and = don't follow status quo since the earliest days or organized organ lit. = Its just part of this career. Organists are hard to please. But, I attempt = not to please Organists, but the people I play for. One of my previous = places of study for me did indeed critique my playing. I guess going with = the flow of the study of Cabezon for a semester is what would recieve me a = liking kiss-on-the-cheek from organists in some programs. I resist places = that are filled with purism, because I want to be a musician for more than = other piston thumpers and chamade tooters. There are alot of organ departments that are puristic. I wont name any = right now. What would have pleased those at one of my previous = institutions was being in high love with Early music and absolutely hating = anything written post 1750. YES there were actually students there that = thought using the 32' reed at the end of Vierne's Carrillon of Westminster = was loud, thick, and raucous. I actually had to point in the score where = Vierne actually turned it on early in the climactic point of that piece. = There were people there that thought Alain's Litanies...a very wrenching = and beautifully poetic piece...was not any more worth than the ground a = pig lies in. One actually would not play anything other than French = Classical music, some Bach, and a slight hint of Mendelssohn. The use of = festive hymn accompanitments rather than the basic was to them, unmusical. = Anything other than the harmony written in that particular denominations = hymnal was not musical. And you certainly know, coupling manuals in Bach should not be practiced.   Organists are hard to please...organ professors are hard to please. What = does the career want? You go study with one teacher and they may be = abhored by others. Yes...I am searching for the right place to complete my = undergraduate education. Yes... Im actually happy right now with working = and studying independantly of a school. Yes...there are people that love = the way I play. Yes...there are people who hate the way I play. No...i = don't think that a 7 rank organ is adaquate for liturgy in a room seating = 650 people. I will NOT be stuck using Rossinis Liturgical Organist EVERY = week. That's the whole reason for Vatican II. Atleast what I heard. When I find the place with the optimum teacher for me, I will go there. = And yes, I do think that some of the countried respeted teachers are not = right for me. We all think that way. Thats why we each choose to go to the = programs that we go to...because that school at that time is rigth for us. =   If one wants to know me...then yes, they should talk to me. You never know = when someone leaves places because they can't find that open heart of love = that they were so promised, yet failed to receive. And you never know, = some of those places who may have made promises, yet so cruely failed to = keep them might be some of the very alma-maters of listers here. Maybe = some Church related/owned schools have used Heavenly Names to do unjust = things to some. Some may be suprised that their alma maters would do such = cruel things to a human being as giving them uneducated, discriminatory = reasons as to why they cant use simple spaces. Criticism and lack-of-cordial nature is, as I said above, part of this = career. Some people will love the way some people play, and hate the way = others play. Some on the west coast offer a creeping criticism to those on = the east who are fond of organ rep by composers as Buck, Knowles Paine, = Thayer, and others from Romantic America. Some people lose competitions = simply because they failed to use alternate toes in a Bach composition. = Some don't like organists who don't mind digital installations. Some don't = like plans to install massive Ruffatti's in spaces where a variety of = music takes place. Some have on both of the lists criticized a rather = decent player and an OK instrument from the Buffalo convention as loud and = unpleasant. Though I have only heard that organ and organist on CD, I = enjoyed what I heard and the people were singing jubilantly. This is all I can think of now...to curtly keep this on topic, in a = manner.           From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
(back) Subject: Ave Maria, Ave Maris Stella/Saint-Martin From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:53:33 -0700 (PDT)   Thanks to Jonathan Orwig for sending me a very festive setting of Ave = Maria, Ave Maris Stella by Leonce Saint-Martin. Its a new piece to me but = its VERY festive for Marian days. To me, after looking at the score...its = similar in style of the Grande Offertoires of Batiste. Anyone who plays this piece, do offer some comments.     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
(back) Subject: RE: Titelouze From: "TheShieling" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 13:55:18 +1200   >REMEMBER: there is NEVER 16' tone in a French baroque pedal part. It didn't exist, and there was no way to GET it. The "ravalment" downward extension of the 8' REED(s) in the Pedale provided a quasi-10 2/3 bass (usually down to G).   True, bit I treaure my early-60s "Cambridge USA" recordings of Melville Smith playing French classics on the Marmoutier Abbey organ by Andreas Silbermann. The two 16ft Pedal stops, to me as one who lives and plays the classic French a lot, entirely right in what they "add" to the organ. I'd = be very cross if anyone ever tried to remove them.   Ross