PipeChat Digest #4643 - Sunday, July 25, 2004
 
19th century French performance practice
  by "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net>
Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))
  by <reedstop@charter.net>
Ice Symphony - Organ freezes
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Ice Symphony - Organ freezes
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Ice Symphony - Organ freezes
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))
  by <PMMGBOB@aol.com>
Salve Regina
  by "James Nerstheimer" <enigma1685@yahoo.com>
planning ahead (!), and a note to Howard
  by "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Salve Regina
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
RE: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))
  by "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com>
Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: August 15
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
 

(back) Subject: 19th century French performance practice From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:31:39 -0700   A study of Barker lever action is almost ESSENTIAL to the understanding of some of the more subtle aspects of romantic French registration.   First of all, everything couples DOWN. If the Recit to Positif coupler and the Postif to G.O. couplers are drawn, then the Recit will play on the G.O. as well.   The same is true of the Pedale couplers: if the MANUALS are coupled, and the G.O. to Pedale coupler is drawn, then the Positif and Recit play on the Pedale as well. That's perhaps the most common mistake made ... sometimes Franck calls for all three Pedale couplers; sometimes he doesn't. One has to look at the MANUAL couplers to determine what to do.   Likewise the intramanual sub and super-couplers. If the Recit Octaves Graves coupler is drawn and the manuals are coupled, it will "play through" to the other manuals ... so ... if Franck calls for it (like at the end of the Grand Piece Symphonique) it's necessary to draw Sw. to Ch. 16' and Sw. to Gt. 16' on an American organ.   What to do with the Hautbois in Franck -- it has been said that Franck drew the Hautbois with the fonds of the Recit because the Recit at St. Clotilde in his day was rather small and weak. It has been argued that on larger organs that HAVE an 8' Diapason in the Swell, the Hautbois should be omitted.   That's rather like the question "If Bach had a high-pressure Tuba, would he use it?"   If I'm not mistaken, Franck still called for the Hautbois in pieces that were written for the Trocadero organ, which was considerably larger than St. Clotilde. Whether or not he would have done things differently if St. Clotilde had an 8' Diapason in the Recit is irrelevant ... fonds 8' + Hautbois was the sound he specified, and the sound he HEARD.   One thing that's often overlooked is that the characteristic sound of the St. Clotilde Recit in Franck's day was the harmonic flutes at 8-4-2, NOT the "caged rage" of the reeds. That was pointed up when Mander built a "Franck Recit" at St. Ignatius Loyola in NYC.   Two other problems are difficult to solve on most American organs: the order of manuals, and the constant specifying of "Flute et Bourdon 8'."   The order of manuals ... Recit on top, Positif in the middle, G.O. on the bottom ... is of course solved by a "Great/Choir Manual Transfer" coupler in electric action organs. Personally, I think the French order makes more sense in TRACKER organs as well, though it can make the action more complex if the Positif is a Positif de Dos on the rail.   Some pieces (notably the middle movement of the Durufle Veni Creator) are virtually impossible to PLAY unless the manuals are in French order .... the stops required are all in the wrong places if the manuals are in American order; and you can't thumb DOWN from the Choir to the Great.   Flute et Bourdon ... virtually all French romantic and post-romantic literature assumes an open or harmonic flute at 8' paired with a Bourdon (almost always built as a Chimney Flute) in ALL manual divisions. There's really no way to get that on most American organs ... adding an 8' Diapason doesn't work ... it's the wrong timbre. About all one can really do if (like in Vierne) the pairing is called for on one or two manuals is to couple all the 8' (stopped or chimney) flutes together from ALL the manuals and hope for the best (grin).   Cheers,   Bud          
(back) Subject: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists)) From: <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 19:40:26 +0000   Lee, I couldn't agree more. As an organist, also, I lament that there is = so much drive to go with the contemporary, but I certainly think it has = its place in the worship community. That's the neat part...if one can be = accepting of it, it opens a multitude of possible combinations of music to = make a service truly enjoyable to all. And there is certainly no reason = an organ can't be used in praise style worship as well.   I marvel at the comment you said the pastor told you...not to play = anything he doesn't know? I mean, really! OK, then don't preach on = anything *I* don't know about.   Mostly, I stick to the modern composers, such as Paul Manz, Charles Ore, = Michael Burkhardt, and for a little something different, try Janet = Linker!! But I'll play Bach as well. (In fact, I'm playing "Jesu, Joy.." = as my prelude tomorrow morning.)   I wonder, though, how much of our music might be more attractive to people = (and by "our" I mean organ music) if we played some of the less "dirgy" = stuff. I mean, it all is wonderful, but even some of the "old classics" = to me are dry and just not that enjoyable to listen to. I'll give you an = example. I played Paul Laubengayer's "Toccata", which is a LOT of fun, a = couple of Sundays back, and got ALL KINDS of compliments on it. The = middle section is almost a swing type sound in the pedal. (Three Pieces = for Organ, Paul L., Morning Star Music...and by the way, the other two are = VERY nice...for weddings too!)   Does anyone else find that certain styles of organ music appeal to their = congregations more than others?   Jeff    
(back) Subject: Ice Symphony - Organ freezes From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 12:58:19 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I don't know who wrote the "Ice Symphony" programmed for live performance at the Proms concert broadcast on BBC Radio 3 this evening, but the newly re-built organ at the Royal Albert Hall (9,999 pipes)went on the blink and they had to substitute a synthesiser for the organ part!!   A great gasp went up among the audience when the announcement was made.   It's at moments like these that I really FEEL for the hapless organ-builder, in this case Mander Organs, but the same thing more or less happened when Carlo Curley played the re-built instrument at Blackburn Cathedral last year.   Perhaps it's something in the digital department, where gremlins can have a devastating effect, whether it be a family car, Michael Schumacher in a Ferrari, or just a rebuilt/new organ.   I know I shouldn't laugh....but.....he....he he.....HA HA HA!   Give me tracker every time!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK             __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail  
(back) Subject: Re: Ice Symphony - Organ freezes From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:10:04 EDT   Dear Colin: If what you say about the computerized relays and connections is true and it probably is, a line conditioner should be installed supplying = the AC. This will keep voltage variations and spikes from affecting these modern parts. Since 240 AC is supplied in the UK to all outlets, you = would need one of these line conditioners for each leg. One spike for instance can wipe out circuit boards if not properly grounded. I'm sure you = fellows may be aware of this, but offer it as a suggestion just the same. Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Ice Symphony - Organ freezes From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 13:33:09 -0700 (PDT)   Hello Ron and list,   This is EXACTLY what happened at Blackburn Cathedral last year!   Normally, our electricity supply is extremely steady and accurate, but of course, computers are so very sensitive.   Good advice Ron!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- RonSeverin@aol.com wrote: > Dear Colin: > > If what you say about the computerized relays and > connections is > true and it probably is, a line conditioner should > be installed supplying the > AC. This will keep voltage variations and spikes > from affecting these > modern parts.   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists)) From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:03:19 -0700 (PDT)   Hi there Well, as I have been thinking about comments made towars myself, and the = message here, Im going ot take time to talk about what my congregation = likes, as well as the previous unversity i attended. My congregation, sinceI have been there, likes a variety of music. They = like Hymn arrangements of Bish, burkhardt, Gordon Young, Anna Lura Page = and the Genevox gang. They like the more tune classics which makes some = say "thats a pretty melody" such as the Lemmens Fanfare, the more = frequently played French Toccatas (i do Widor, Boellmann, and Pierne) the = fun langlais pieces (IE the Pasticcio from the Dix Piece). They LOVE = hearing transcriptions. They seem to have a fon like of the boks of = serice music put out by Kevin Mehew/Melbay as I do. While I was at my previous college, and when asked to play for University = Congregation (usually by request, and for services where there would be = groups as the Board of Regents, etc) I would do the same as above. I = remember once I was going to do either a Bach piece for postlude or a = Gordon Young piece. It was channeled back to me from Susan Ferre that they = did not want to hear Bach that particular day, but take a break from such = structure and add some lighter fare.     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
(back) Subject: Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists)) From: <PMMGBOB@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 20:19:58 EDT   En la palais du roi de Belgique nous visiterons par un chiffonier faux... e= t=20 quand les affaires dev=E9 un petit peu louche il me donn=E9 un duchy.....  
(back) Subject: Salve Regina From: "James Nerstheimer" <enigma1685@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:36:05 -0700 (PDT)     I think it's #10, the Romane (Romaine?) that has the Salve Regina. = Someone I know btw once told me of a rumour he heard from someone that = Widor was starting work on an 11th Organ Symphony. It cannot be verified, = but its title was to be "The Iceberg". Lettuce chew on that one shall we?   jim   O):^)           There let the pealing organ blow To the full voic=92d quire below, In service high, and anthems cleer, And may with sweetness, through mine ear, Dissolve me into extasies, And bring all Heav=92n before mine eyes.     --John Milton __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: planning ahead (!), and a note to Howard From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 18:26:52 -0700   I have decided to set the RCL St. Matthew Passion for Year A FIRST, as more people are likely to use it. Those who follow the Prayer Book Lectionary can simply skip the first few verses.   Right now I'm thinking to use the Victoria Turba choruses, but rewrite them (obviously) and raise the pitch.   Here's the problem: the Burgess Liturgical Choir Book printed it with "A" as the reciting note for the Chronista. That's fine for the soloists, but it puts the polyphonic Turba choruses so low that they really need to be sung ATTB instead of SATB. BUT, if I raise the Chronista to recite on middle C, that means the Chronista has to be a high baritone or a tenor to maintain that for so long, and the Synagogus has to be a HIGH tenor or a counter-tenor.   That's the way we used to do it, but is that practical for y'all?   Howard, can you scan or fax me the LASSUS St. Matthew Turba choruses? I thought I had them, but I only have Mark and Luke. It may turn out that the Lassus works better with a lower pitch for the Chronista.   Or, I can use the Viadana choruses I arranged for the St. Luke Passion.   THANKS!   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: Salve Regina From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 21:58:44 -0400   Actually, Widor's Salve Regina is the fourth movement of his Second Organ Symphony, replacing a Scherzo that had been in the first edition.     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu       on 7/24/04 8:36 PM, James Nerstheimer at enigma1685@yahoo.com wrote:     I think it's #10, the Romane (Romaine?) that has the Salve Regina. Someone I know btw once told me of a rumour he heard from someone that Widor was starting work on an 11th Organ Symphony. It cannot be verified, but its title was to be "The Iceberg". Lettuce chew on that one shall we?   jim=20   O):^)=20         There let the pealing organ blow To the full voic=92d quire below, In service high, and anthems cleer, And may with sweetness, through mine ear, Dissolve me into extasies, And bring all Heav=92n before mine eyes.     --John Milton   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the beest spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com      
(back) Subject: RE: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists)) From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:40:31 -0500   Which means? -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of PMMGBOB@aol.com Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 7:20 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))     En la palais du roi de Belgique nous visiterons par un chiffonier faux.= ... et quand les affaires dev=E9 un petit peu louche il me donn=E9 un duchy..= ....  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists)) From: "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 00:02:45 -0500   You just need to understand French and be familiar with the music of = Stephen Sondheim musicals to understand that message.. still trying to = figure out what it has to do with this topic.   Sand ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jeff White=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 11:40 PM Subject: RE: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))     Which means? -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf = Of PMMGBOB@aol.com Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 7:20 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))     En la palais du roi de Belgique nous visiterons par un chiffonier = faux... et quand les affaires dev=E9 un petit peu louche il me donn=E9 = un duchy.....
(back) Subject: Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists)) From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 22:06:13 -0700   An understanding of pseudo-French might be even more helpful. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Sand Lawn=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 10:02 PM Subject: Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))     You just need to understand French and be familiar with the music of = Stephen Sondheim musicals to understand that message.. still trying to = figure out what it has to do with this topic.   Sand ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jeff White=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 11:40 PM Subject: RE: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))     Which means? -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On = Behalf Of PMMGBOB@aol.com Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 7:20 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))     En la palais du roi de Belgique nous visiterons par un chiffonier = faux... et quand les affaires dev=E9 un petit peu louche il me donn=E9 = un duchy.....=  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists)) From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 14:12:59 +0800     "In the palace of king of Belgium we will visit with a (false/fake?) = ragman... and when businesses dev=E9(?) a little bit equivocal I am given = a duchy..... "   mmmm, I dunno.   ----- Original Message ----- From: PMMGBOB@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 20:19:58 EDT To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Organ music/Styles (was: Attitude (and Organists))   > En la palais du roi de Belgique nous visiterons par un chiffonier = faux... et > quand les affaires dev=E9 un petit peu louche il me donn=E9 un = duchy.....       -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm        
(back) Subject: Re: August 15 From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 14:36:41 +0800   I've done the arrangement of "His Eye Is On the Sparrow" from Sister Act = II, does that count? ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernadette Wagner <musicalgrl90@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 08:19:32 -0700 (PDT) To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: August 15   > Oh my gosh. If someone really does do something from "Sister Act" I will = laugh my butt off. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I dare someone to do it. lol. > ~a young organist who loves you   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm