PipeChat Digest #4647 - Monday, July 26, 2004
 
Re: Re: What appeals to people
  by "rgunther@cantv.net" <rgunther@cantv.net>
Re: music and theology
  by "Ed Steltzer" <steltzer@gwi.net>
Re: Re: What appeals to people
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
RE: Felix Hell unsubscribing
  by "v hatch" <vhatch@hotmail.com>
Re: Going for our Church Employment Dreams
  by "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>
Re: August 15 - Mary
  by "Richard Huggins" <huggins88@yahoo.com>
Re: pedalpoint?
  by "Bernadette Wagner" <musicalgrl90@yahoo.com>
RE: music for 8/15
  by "Bernadette Wagner" <musicalgrl90@yahoo.com>
RE: Felix Hell unsubscribing
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
frivolity
  by "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net>
OHS convention organs review 01
  by "rgunther@cantv.net" <rgunther@cantv.net>
(no subject)
  by "Joe Norman" <DPJMN@calendar.olemiss.edu>
Re: hymns
  by "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: pedalpoint?
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
Re: frivolity
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Re: What appeals to people From: "rgunther@cantv.net" <rgunther@cantv.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 08:06:48 -0400   AMEN to that. One of my most favorable impressions from the OHS convention recitals was that the performers have choosen their programs so carefully to fit to the instruments.   I have a question here -just curious: Who slected the hymns? Was it the performing organists, the pastors of the churches, or somebody else?   Andres First was the cat, then was the orgler. The orgler got a pet, and the cat got something to wonder about. ----------- Mensaje Original -------------- De: David Scribner [david@blackiris.com] Para: PipeChat [pipechat@pipechat.org] Cc: Asunto: Re: What appeals to people Fecha: 25/07/2004 10:41:46 Mensaje:   At 7:19 AM -0700 7/25/04, Raymond H. Clark wrote: > check the Organ Literature Foundation (are they still in business?) >and the Organ Historical Society's catalogs. > I don't think the Organ Literature Foundation is in business any longer. I know that the OHS/American Organ Archives has gotten the collection of books, etc that were part of the OLF.     > >Here's a point to be made: instead of cursing all those 8' stops >and/or attempting to remake the organ in the image of a Schnitger, >go dig up literature that FITS your instrument ... you CAN still do >REAL music.   This concept was pointed out so well at the OHS Convention where recitalists, for the most part, first went to play and hear the organ they would be playing for the Convention and then picked literature that would work with that particular instrument and show it off to it's full advantage.   Several examples of this come to mind. Randy Bourne, who played a 1919 Votteler-Holtkamp-Sparling with only ONE 4' stop did a program of music that would have been used around the time that organ was built including the Bach "Little" Prelude & Fugue in g minor from an 1908 (I think that is the year that Randy mentioned) edition. It may not have been "academically" correct but it worked on that organ. Randy also did several transcriptions that were done by organists of that time period like Casper Koch, Richard Key Biggs and Edwin Shippen Barnes.   Justin Hartz did a program titled "Going out in Style" (I think that was the title he gave to it) on a 1933 Wurlitzer of 4 ranks. His program included music of Percy Fletcher and Dudley Buck among others. Again, music that fitted that organ.   These are just a couple of examples from many of music performed at the Convention. As Bud pointed out above, there IS music that will work on these instruments, you just have to hunt for it. And for the most part it is probably music that "Will Appeal to People".   David "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org>        
(back) Subject: Re: music and theology From: "Ed Steltzer" <steltzer@gwi.net> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 22:55:03 -0400   Amen, Bud ...... beautifully said. Doing church music with only = our minds and not with our hearts also is a bit like "works without faith".   But I hasten to add that David has good reason to discourage theological discussion, since it easily gets out of hand.   An humble and penitent spirit is the first requirement of worship; a prideful and/or worldly heart cannot approach the throne of Grace, musically or any other way. And such a good spirit will lead us to unanimity and away from disputing.   Ed, in Maine   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 9:40 PM Subject: music and theology     > I'm not sure I agree with you, David. > > Byrd's being "only a musician" may have spared him drawing and > quartering at the hands of Elizabeth the First for being a "recusant" > (Roman Catholic) in post-reformation England, but I for one think it > MATTERS *why* we play *what* we play.   > clip, clip, clip, clip, clip, > > When we are challenged to defend traditional church music against CCM, > etc., we need a THEOLOGICAL basis ... "good taste" isn't going to > convince many people. > clip, clip, clip, clip, clip > > Organists don't sing and play in a vacuum ... we sing and play in > CHURCHES ... and, whatever church, it behooves us to know a GREAT DEAL > about that church's theology AND liturgy, if we are to be MINISTERS of > music and minister BY our music. > > Cheers, Bud >    
(back) Subject: Re: Re: What appeals to people From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 07:19:26 -0500   At 8:06 AM -0400 7/26/04, rgunther@cantv.net wrote: > >AMEN to that. One of my most favorable impressions from the OHS = convention >recitals was that the performers have choosen their programs so carefully >to fit to the instruments. > >I have a question here -just curious: Who slected the hymns? Was it the >performing organists, the pastors of the churches, or somebody else?   Andres   The hymns are selected by the performing organists.   David  
(back) Subject: RE: Felix Hell unsubscribing From: "v hatch" <vhatch@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:27:07 -0500   1: I think that pipechat is great but since this toopic of frivolity came =   up it gives me the chance to ask this question--with all due respect and = not to offend anyone but just because I heard about it in LA at AGO: what is orgL and how do you subscribe to that (is this question considered subversive? If so just ignore it). Would the process of subscribing be = that you look for a website www.orgL.org ? 2: Oh and I would like so thank everybody at pipechat: I was surprised to find myself practicing till I dropped on Saturday and I am thinking that it was due to INSPIRATION of = some kind from readin two hours worth of PIPECHAT messages. #3: How do you = know when it's time to retire? I know of a chemistry teacher who is teaching fulltime at a pretty prestigious college who is 89 years old Could I hear from anyone who has retired and NOW REGRETS taking that decision? I 'd = like to have my fear of taking the step rationalized I guess. >From: Colin Mitchell <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >To: pipechat@pipechat.org >Subject: Felix Hell unsubscribing >Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 15:27:16 -0700 (PDT) > >Hello, > >I hope that Felix will re-consider his decision to >unsubscribe. > >I think that, for the moment, people are in vacation >mood....it happens every year. The posts become a >little frivolous and nobody seems to have anything to >say of importance. > >The best way of countering this sort of apathy and the >tendency to go "off topic," is to write something >interesting. > >It would, for instance, be extremely interesting to >hear how the studies are going for Felix, and what >sort of repertoire he is now absorbing. > >How about if Felix? > >Regards, > >Colin Mitchell UK > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. >http://messenger.yahoo.com >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> >List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >   _________________________________________________________________ Planning a family vacation? Check out the MSN Family Travel guide! http://dollar.msn.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Going for our Church Employment Dreams From: "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:39:17 -0400       On 25 Jul 2004 at 17:11, T.Desiree' Hines expounded:   > The Church Musician's Handbook which is used more for the > ECUSA, as well as Paul Wertermeyer's book.   ANYTHING by Paul Westermeyer is high quality, and right on target. His = writings are used at Lutheran Theological Seminary at Philadelphia as required = texts for liturgical music classes.   --Shirley    
(back) Subject: Re: August 15 - Mary From: "Richard Huggins" <huggins88@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:40:45 -0500   I can't speak for Baptists other than as an individual member of an SBC church, but that disclaimer being said...   The Baptist church is not Mary-centric, is one way to think of it. But = it's not Mary-phobic either.   Mary is rightly regarded as the virgin mother of Jesus and is esteemed for her simple yet laudatory attitude of faith and trust when she learned the fact of and circumstances of her pregnancy. She is a model of many things worth emulating in the Christian life, yet she is not divine nor a Saint = as such. The Apostle Paul, for example, would be regarded with as much or = more esteem, and being as how he wrote all those letters he gets a lot of "press"...(:>).   --Richard Huggins   > From: <OMusic@aol.com>   > Thanks for the information. I had not heard that, either. I have = played in > a Lutheran church, too. Right now I am in a Baptist church which does = not > have much to say about Mary except at Christmas. Can anyone explain = that to > me? > Lee    
(back) Subject: Re: pedalpoint? From: "Bernadette Wagner" <musicalgrl90@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 07:49:47 -0700 (PDT)   uummm, gross! (the perspiration, i mean)   Keys4bach@aol.com wrote:What is Pedal Point Mag?     dale in Florida--perspiring and not even playing a Trio Sonata   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
(back) Subject: RE: music for 8/15 From: "Bernadette Wagner" <musicalgrl90@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 07:53:01 -0700 (PDT)   um, its called a JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ~bernadette Jeff White <reedstop@charter.net> wrote:<I still dare someone to do the = "Hail Holy Queen Enthroned Above". I'll mail you a dollar. Swear to it. = LOL.> Well, I would, but...I'd need to de-RC it. The Lutheran church doesn't = teach that Mary is a queen, or enthroned above (right, Alan?). Otherwise, = I really really like that tune, and really like the way it's done on = "Sister Act." Despite the Mary thing (g), I was touched spiritually by = it. How about "Hail Holy King enthroned above...alleluia!" OK, out of = context for this particular Sunday, but I'd love to find a different use = for that tune! :) Curiously, though, the suggestions my resource for this Sunday has for = hymns are: Gathering: Love Divine, All Loves Excelling or Our Father By Whose Name Hymn/Day: Sing of Mary, Pure and Lowly; Ye Watchers and Ye Holy Ones; or = My Soul Now Magnifies the Lord COMMUNION: Of the Father's Love Begotten; O Lord, We Praise You; or My = Soul Proclaims Your Greatness SENDING: Now Thank We All Our God, or For All The Faithful Women I'll probably play "Rhosymedre" by V. Williams as my offertory piece (and = that's the tune of "Our Father By Whose Name"). This tune name, of = course, means "Lovely" (according to my music). Not sure yet what I want = to do for Prelude and Postlude. Hmm... Regards, Jeff     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
(back) Subject: RE: Felix Hell unsubscribing From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 10:55:44 -0400   At 10:27 AM 7/26/2004, V Hatch wrote: >Could I hear from anyone who has retired and NOW REGRETS taking that >decision? I 'd like to have my fear of taking the step rationalized I = guess.   I retired from teaching Mechanical Engineering in 1993, - eleven years = ago, and that was after three years of teaching part time from my proper retirement date in 1990.   I do NOT regret taking the decision to fully retire, - in fact I was able to volunteer for several years as a Technical Aids worker for the Canadian =   National Institute for the Blind. My knowledge of computers has helped many blind and low vision clients to continue using their computers with the software that is available.   Screen readers, Text magnifiers, and other sophisticated aids are available, and in most cases, can be purchased with the help of Government =   assisted funding. Unfortunately, the learning curve is quite steep, and that is where I was able to help.   I am now unable to get out and about as much as I would like, but I am still able to help over the phone to my clients. I find this far more satisfying than pounding knowledge into unwilling heads!   However, having said that, I wouldn't want to be retired only to sit in front of a TV all day! I still like a challenge.   Bob Conway    
(back) Subject: frivolity From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 08:04:27 -0700   From time to time, I contribute what I think are reasonably on-topic articles regarding this or that about the ORGAN ... well, mostly they get ignored, or they get torn to bits (that's fine ... I suppose that IS a species of discussion), so we might as WELL tell jokes or argue about politics or theology, since it seems that very few people want to engage in a SERIOUS discussion about organ literature, organ-building, registration, articulation, acoustics, or anything else relating to the art of the ORGAN.   When somebody says to me "I don't CARE what the primary sources, the composer's prefaces, the extant instruments, contemporary commentaries, or whatever indicate; I'm going to do whatever I FEEL like," I have difficulty regarding such a person as a serious musician.   If someone chooses to play "just for fun" (and for free) in a village church, that is, of course, their right and privilege, though it drives the standards and the salaries down for those of us who ARE professional musicians and make our LIVING playing the organ.   But don't come after ME with swords, staves and weapons because *I* insist upon a living wage, medical benefits, disability insurance, and retirement benefits.   By the time you count private lessons, travel time, the purchase of a practice piano and organ, assembling a library, the cost of a conservatory education, etc., my musical education probably cost right around $100K US in 2004 dollars. I think it's reasonable to expect to recoup that, though goodness KNOWS I never became WEALTHY as a full-time church musician; in retirement I have had to continue to work as a music engraver to attempt to make ends meet.   No, after fifty years in the business, I WOULDN'T advise ANYBODY to go into church music, unless you married a fortune, or inherited one. Churches are the MOST UN-christian, demanding, capricious, downright HATEFUL employers I have EVER dealt with, and during most of my career I worked a second job in the newspaper/graphics/typesetting industry, so I HAVE worked outside the field. I would LOVE to see OSHA and the trade unions turned loose on the churches ... they'd shut them down in a HEARTBEAT, and rightly so.   Ah well, I'm out of it now. Let the younger generation deal with electronic organs and CCM.   Cheers (?),   Bud              
(back) Subject: OHS convention organs review 01 From: "rgunther@cantv.net" <rgunther@cantv.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:08:25 -0400   Dear List,   When I was a wild young man:) I listened to the music performance: when I was a music student I listened to the performing style: now that I am a settled-down organ restorer I listen to the organs as instruments- how = they sound, how they fit into their accoustical environment, how they are kept. =   With this criterion I listened to the organs we visited at the OHS convention in Buffalo, a city full of historic buildings and historic organs. For people who don't know, Erie, PA is not so far away and had a good deal of small but effective organ builders (and today this city = houses one of the best known organ parts suppliers in the USA). Buffalo itself housed some organ building foirms too, beeing one of them the late Schlicker Organ Co.   Wednesday 14 July, Frederick Swann gave the opening recital on St Stanislaus RC Church, on the Johnson & Son Op 797 / Tellers Organ Co Op = 814 ogan. The organ facade is much more impressive than it looks at the photograph in the OHS Yearbook and is a little big for the church. The woodcarving on it it noticeable. The accoustic of the church is great.is great. The organ has a warm sound with beatuful orchestral voices and is well equilibrated. Very good for Cesar Franck et alia.   Thursday July 15 at 10,20 am, Delaware Avenue Baptist Church, James = Hammann on the Johnson & Son Op 827 / Viner Organ Co 1951 organ. The organ facade matches into the curch's architecture (the church itself displays = astunding artistry in its interior design). Only mismatching note is a big = loudpeaker box which is suspended at the arch over the organ (the awful taste of some PA system installers was noticed in several churches by several people!). The accoustic of the church is dead, but the organ fills out the room neverthless and is a good instrument for late romantic literature.   The same day, Lafayette Presbyterian Church, Derek Nickels at the Geo S. Hutchings Op 465 / R Wurlitzer / Charles Viner organ. Facade pipes hidden behind grillework, it's a good sounding instrument despite the bad accoustics and a somewhat noisy action.   The same day, Karpeles Manuscript Museum (North Hall, former Christ Scientist Church), was a grateful surprise: A 1913 / 1956 Moller in mint condition: the former church is in remodellation right now, therfor it has overaccoustics. Here, I want to repeat once more my suggestion from a few days ago: This would be a great opportunity to use the facility and the organ for public recitals. The organ is obviously well kept and its = further restoration would be no problem once the museum is ready for use. I only hope that the contractor is well advised to protect the instrument against dust, paint, plaster etc!   Next Station the same day was the Noehren Organ at First Presbyterian Church (David Bond, Organist). I recognized it inmediately from the = picture in Orpha Ochses'book (History of the Organ in the USA). Its Positive Division is suspended from the ceiling. Its tonal design is neobarroque. For its design and sound this organ is a remacable document of a recent past era, and I hope it will be respected as such in the next future!   The same church has a small chapel (Hindman Chapel) with a Schlicker 1957. Nevertheless I supected it from the descriptions and discussion on the List, I was astounded how much the tonal finish is alike Detlef Kleuker's. But Hermann Schlicker inherited us a surprise as we'll see later on this series.   the surprise for this day was a really lovely and mysterious instrument at the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary RCC - only recently ir came out that it is a Hall & labagh from 1853. The neogothic facade is like custom made for the neogothic church, which has a wonderful accoustic. My initial fear that this organ would be too small for the church was promptly dispersed; the little organ -repaired for the ocassion by Scott = Huntington, but in bad need of a thorough restoration as soon as possible- filled out the big room quite well. Despite some bad details in the pipework and a very battered keyboard this victrorian tracker is perfectly restorable and can do very well for a long more time.   This first full convention day had a cheerish closing: Scott Foppiano at the WurliTzer Theathre organ at Shea's Buffalo Center for the Performing Arts: a complete TO performance and demosntration plus a (silent) Buster Keaton-Film "Cops"accompanied at the organ alike in the past. The comeback of TO playing technique as well as the restoration of the few surviving instruments is to welcome, and Scott is a devoted enthusiast to this = almost forlorn art form. Good look, keep on the good work and save more mighty TO's!   With this I come to the end of this first part. I am sitting on a lended = PC here in Weston/Miami and no time to edit, so 'scuse me for typing errors and possible grammar glitches (and perhaps a small font size- cannot control it). Stay tuned...    
(back) Subject: From: "Joe Norman" <DPJMN@calendar.olemiss.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:25:35 -0500   I'm usually a "lurker" on most lists....However, I'm very excited about = BEGINNING organ lessons as an adult learner - I just had my third = lesson! And the discussions on this list (especially those centered = around church music) are very enjoyable. =20   I took piano as a high school idiot (parents made me), and of course, = never took it seriously. Now, after 30 (!) years of life, I have found = the instrument that I can spend hours at a time practicing, and = wondering where the time has gone. My 16 year old daughter just asked = me "If I had lost my mind, or what?" after practicing until 1:30 in the = morning. =20   I am finding hymn playing on the organ to be very challenging. My = instructor mentioned to me that the only hymnal she knew of that had a = true organ version was the Baptist Hymnal. And I haven't found anything = so far surfing on the net. Would anyone be willing to share with me = available resources for hymn arrangements for the organ, especially to = accompany congregational singing. All suggestions for a beginning = organist greatly appreciated. Joe   Joseph Norman=20 Administrative Information Services=20 University of Mississippi=20 Post Office Box 1848 University, MS 38677-1848 __________________________________________________   662.915.7764 Voice Mail, Work Station (8a-5p CST)=20 662.915.7206 Administrative Information Services=20 662.236.6484 Home   http://home.olemiss.edu/~dpjmn/ Online (Unofficial)    
(back) Subject: Re: hymns From: "Raymond H. Clark" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:49:07 -0700       Joe Norman wrote:   > > > I am finding hymn playing on the organ to be very challenging. My > instructor mentioned to me that the only hymnal she knew of that had > a true organ version was the Baptist Hymnal. And I haven't found > anything so far surfing on the net. Would anyone be willing to share > with me available resources for hymn arrangements for the organ, > especially to accompany congregational singing. All suggestions for > a beginning organist greatly appreciated. Joe >   Not quite sure what she means here ... The Hymnal 1982 (The Episcopal Church in the USA), the Lutheran Book of Worship (The Evangelical Lutheran Church of/in America), Lutheran Worship (Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod), Worship III (Roman Catholic), Hymns for the Family of God (general protestant), and any number of others publish "Organist's Editions" ... the Lutheran ones are particularly helpful, as they're in landscape, so you only have to turn a page ONCE during the liturgy for every FOUR pages in the regular hymnal.   Now, if you mean "free" harmonizations, descants, etc., that's something else. Hymns for the Family of God has a good number in evangelical style; various organists at the Crystal Cathedral have put out similar books of free harmonizations.   Lorenz Publishing CO. is probably the best place to look for Gospel hymn "stylings" ...   Descants and free harmonizations for Anglican hymns is a whole 'nother world (grin) ... a lot of the books are out of print ... we all have our tattered and mended copies.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: pedalpoint? From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:55:08 EDT   I have played Lutheran "stuff" in a Baptist Church, and Baptist "stuff" in = a Lutheran Church. I found it all quite appropriate. I use "This is the = Feast" in the Green Lutheran Accompaniment Hymnal for Postludes, part of = Preludes, Interludes, etc. I love it. I used pieces from Pedalpoint (I have stacks = of them from way back, as well as the most current) in the Lutheran Church. = Pedal point has music for Piano, Organ, Duets for Piano and Organ, Trios for = Piano, Organ and Synthizer. Some of the arrangers/composers are on this list, = but I won't tell who. They can 'fess up, if they wish. The Lutheran church = uses many hymn tunes written by Baptists. Aren't we all Christians, playing = for the Glory of God?  
(back) Subject: Re: frivolity From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:56:44 -0500   Yes, kudos to Felix for getting out of here. Let's not distract him. = He's too busy bringing organ music music to the people to waste time here. I will probably be gone soon as well. I have not had any objections... this =   place is full of great people. Its fun when on topic, but not generally useful. I've gotten some good, quick advice on where to get music, and that's useful, but I could get that from local organists too. This is = good for those with too much time their hands. I do not have this luxury, and Felix has it far less than I do.   Andy     On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 08:04:27 -0700, Raymond H. Clark wrote > From time to time, I contribute what I think are reasonably on- > topic articles regarding this or that about the ORGAN ... well, > mostly they get ignored, or they get torn to bits (that's fine ... I > suppose that IS a species of discussion), so we might as WELL tell > jokes or argue about politics or theology, since it seems that very > few people want to engage in a SERIOUS discussion about organ > literature, organ-building, registration, articulation, acoustics, > or anything else relating to the art of the ORGAN.     A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com