PipeChat Digest #4542 - Monday, June 7, 2004
 
Re: Midi files
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: Tamburini
  by "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br>
Re: Tamburini
  by "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br>
Patriotic suggestions
  by "brade" <beveland@millsauto.com>
digital "action"
  by "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Tamburini
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com>
Re: Tamburini
  by "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Patriotic suggestions
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Midi files From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 01:22:00 +0800   http://www.classicalarchives.com/ -- It's got everything, you will have to = search for organ-specific files. A lot of 20th century composers are not = represented becuase of copyright issues.   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: Midi files   > does anyone here know where i might get some nice midi files of Organ = music > I got plenty Christian ones, but would like some classical ones Daniel     -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: Tamburini From: "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:10:45 -0300   Pleas, Raymond,   What is your opinion about digital action?   Domitila   Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications wrote:   > > > Domitila Ballesteros wrote: > >> Dear Arie, >> >> Thank you very much for your response. >> One last question: >> It is possible to change the eletric sistem for a mechanical action? >> >> Domitila > > > Not unless the organ already has slider chests with electric pull-down > action. If it doesn't, you're basically talking about putting the > pipes on an all-new mechanism, which would come close to the cost of a > new organ. In addition, pipes voiced to play on a pitman windchest > would have to be revoiced to play on slider windchests. > > Bud Clark > San Diego California USA > >> >> Arie Vandenberg wrote: >> >>> I will try to answer your questions as best I can. >>> >>> 1) in North America, most new organs, and refurbishments as well, >>> (if they are not a Tracker), use a computer control system, which >>> can also be called a digital relay. What these relays do is reduce >>> the amount of hardware, especially of the mechanical variety, and >>> expand the versatility of the instrument. However it is critical to >>> have these systems installed correctly, or various anomalies may >>> occur. Generally they are trouble-free once installed, but it is >>> important to have local, as well as manufacturer technical support. >>> If something does go wrong, the instrument could be in-operable. >>> >>> 2) should not affect the touch at all ( I suppose you mean >>> keyboard and pedalboard action) >>> >>> 3) I don't think any builder would want to take on the job, without >>> inspecting it first. >>> >>> 4) I don't know of any company that does maintenance or repairs on >>> Tambounini organs. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Arie V. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>>> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related = topics >>>> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>>> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>>> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Arie Vandenberg >>> Classic Organbuilders >>> ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com >>> Tel.: 905-475-1263 >>> >>> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> >> >> > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >        
(back) Subject: Re: Tamburini From: "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:17:26 -0300     --------------020004010709070502060209 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit   I think, one of more important point about de restauration organ is the mantenaince. At time of project, all is promissed. But, latter... who repair the organ? Who, in Brazil, can repair a organ with digital action. One of the two projects was presented by a brazilian men. When I read in Internet, Notre Dame's organ had or have problems... in France, with many resources (money and technology).   Andr=E9s G=FCnther wrote:   >>Well built mechanical systems tend to be >>very expensive, but also last the longest. >> >> >...and are the easiest to repair for organ builders there, who in so many >cases are little more than intelligent and skilled laymen with some >cabinetmaking background. > It is a exactly thing.   Domitila   --------------020004010709070502060209 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" = content=3D"text/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> I &nbsp;think, one of more important point about de restauration organ is = the mantenaince. At time &nbsp;of project, all is promissed. &nbsp;But, = latter... who repair the organ? &nbsp;Who, in Brazil, can repair a organ with digital action. = One of the two projects was presented by a brazilian men. When I read in = Internet, Notre Dame's organ had or have problems... in France, with many resources (money and technology).<br> <br> Andr&eacute;s G&uuml;nther wrote:<br> <blockquote type=3D"cite" = cite=3D"mid017b01c44ca8$95d382e0$1e4a2cc8@andresg"> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <pre wrap=3D"">Well built mechanical systems tend to be very expensive, but also last the longest. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=3D""><!---->...and are the easiest to repair for organ = builders there, who in so many cases are little more than intelligent and skilled laymen with some cabinetmaking background. </pre> </blockquote> It is a exactly thing.<br> <br> Domitila<br> </body> </html>   --------------020004010709070502060209--      
(back) Subject: Patriotic suggestions From: "brade" <beveland@millsauto.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:29:24 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0020_01C44C9B.D48E6480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Our city started a lunchtime concert series over the summer months that = =3D rotates through the instruments in town. This year I am playing July 7. = =3D The choice of music is up to me and anything goes for this series. I'm = =3D sticking with a more classical approach.   I thought it would be fun to do at least one patriotic arrangement.   Any suggestions?   Brad Eveland bradekc@yahoo.com ------=3D_NextPart_000_0020_01C44C9B.D48E6480 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type =3D content=3D3Dtext/html;charset=3D3DISO-8859-1> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Our city started a lunchtime concert = =3D series over=3D20 the summer months that rotates through the instruments in town.&nbsp; =3D This year=3D20 I am playing July 7.&nbsp; The choice of music is up to me and anything = =3D goes for=3D20 this series.&nbsp; I'm sticking with a more classical =3D approach.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I thought it would be fun to do at = =3D least one=3D20 patriotic arrangement.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Any suggestions?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Brad Eveland</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:bradekc@yahoo.com">bradekc@yahoo.com</A></FONT></DIV></BOD= =3D Y></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0020_01C44C9B.D48E6480--    
(back) Subject: digital "action" From: "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:32:24 -0700   "Digital" isn't really an ACTION ... "digital" (when applied to a PIPE organ) simply means that housekeeping chores (stop action, combination action, the connection between the keys and pipes, etc.) are CONTROLLED by a computer. It generally replaces electro-pneumatic or electro-mechanical RELAYS; it doesn't have anything DIRECTLY to do with the action ITSELF. You can apply digital technology to ANY electric-action organ.   Inside the organ, there are still only a handful of ways of actually making the organ PLAY:   1. Tracker action 2. Barker lever (pneumatic assistance to what is still basically tracker action) 3. Tubular pneumatic action 4. Electro-pneumatic action (can be applied to either slider or pitman chests) 5. Electro-mechanical action (can be applied to either slider or pitman chests.   I personally am VERY wary of applying ANY digital technology to pipe organs ... we had an instance locally where the original manufacturer of the digital equipment had gone out of business; the organ needed repairs to the stop and key action; replacement parts were unavailable; the whole system had to be replaced at great expense.   Think about the lifespan of the average computer ... I HAVE a twenty-year old computer, and it still WORKS, but virtually EVERYTHING in it has been replaced at one time or another. The technology is slow, and primitive. I keep it only because it runs a mailing label program that suits my needs.   In the USA, we had several organ builders in the 19th and early 20th century that built "catalog" organs. They were shipped out by railroad to remote places, along with instructions for assembling them ... the instructions were nothing that a local blacksmith couldn't follow. Many of those organs are still playing today BECAUSE the mechanism IS simple, and the replacement parts (wood, leather, etc.) are still generally available.   Tracker organs have been around for more than a thousand years; they WORK; they keep ON working; and when they DO have to be repaired, the repairs are SIMPLE to DO.   My second choice, though there are some issues about pipe speech, would be electro-mechanical action applied to slider chests. It's simple to build, and simple to maintain.   Electro-pneumatic actions and pitman chests are wonders of the early Industrial Revolution, and a well-built one will last up to a hundred years, but when it comes time to releather it, it's a NIGHTMARE (grin).   Cheers,   Bud Clark San Diego California USA   Domitila Ballesteros wrote:   > Pleas, Raymond, > > What is your opinion about digital action? > > Domitila > > Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications wrote: > >> >> >> Domitila Ballesteros wrote: >> >>> Dear Arie, >>> >>> Thank you very much for your response. >>> One last question: >>> It is possible to change the eletric sistem for a mechanical action? >>> >>> Domitila >> >> >> >> Not unless the organ already has slider chests with electric pull-down >> action. If it doesn't, you're basically talking about putting the >> pipes on an all-new mechanism, which would come close to the cost of a >> new organ. In addition, pipes voiced to play on a pitman windchest >> would have to be revoiced to play on slider windchests. >> >> Bud Clark >> San Diego California USA >> >>> >>> Arie Vandenberg wrote: >>> >>>> I will try to answer your questions as best I can. >>>> >>>> 1) in North America, most new organs, and refurbishments as well, >>>> (if they are not a Tracker), use a computer control system, which >>>> can also be called a digital relay. What these relays do is reduce >>>> the amount of hardware, especially of the mechanical variety, and >>>> expand the versatility of the instrument. However it is critical to >>>> have these systems installed correctly, or various anomalies may >>>> occur. Generally they are trouble-free once installed, but it is >>>> important to have local, as well as manufacturer technical support. >>>> If something does go wrong, the instrument could be in-operable. >>>> >>>> 2) should not affect the touch at all ( I suppose you mean >>>> keyboard and pedalboard action) >>>> >>>> 3) I don't think any builder would want to take on the job, without >>>> inspecting it first. >>>> >>>> 4) I don't know of any company that does maintenance or repairs on >>>> Tambounini organs. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Arie V. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>>>> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related = topics >>>>> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>>>> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>>>> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> Arie Vandenberg >>>> Classic Organbuilders >>>> ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com >>>> Tel.: 905-475-1263 >>>> >>>> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>>> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related = topics >>>> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>>> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>>> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> >> >> > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Tamburini From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:34:34 -0400   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_24305032= =3D=3D.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"; format=3Dflowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   At 04:17 PM 2004-06-07 -0300, you wrote: >I think, one of more important point about de restauration organ is = the=3D20 >mantenaince. At time of project, all is promissed. But, latter... = who=3D20 >repair the organ? Who, in Brazil, can repair a organ with digital = action.=3D =3D20 >One of the two projects was presented by a brazilian men. When I read = in=3D20 >Internet, Notre Dame's organ had or have problems... in France, with = many=3D =3D20 >resources (money and technology). > >Andr=3DE9s G=3DFCnther wrote: >>> >>>Well built mechanical systems tend to be >>>very expensive, but also last the longest. >>> >> >>...and are the easiest to repair for organ builders there, who in so = many >>cases are little more than intelligent and skilled laymen with some >>cabinetmaking background. >It is a exactly thing. > >Domitila     Domitila,   It cannot be stressed enough, IF you don't have a qualified service = person,=3D =3D20 with an electronic relay, you could be up the creek without a paddle in = a=3D20 hurry. I suppose you would know what the situation is with = electronic=3D20 service personnel in Brazil. Even in North America, there are not = near=3D20 enough good service people around, as far too much electronic stuff = sold=3D20 today is essentially throw away. If it breaks down, throw it away.   The case of the Notre Dame organ in Paris, is that they tried to do a = lot,=3D =3D20 with untried technology, had way too much money at their disposal, and = it=3D20 was a disaster. I understand that they have already replaced that = system,=3D =3D20 and the new system works much better.   I work for a company that is a leader in the pipe organ switching = system=3D20 field, and I will repeat what I said earlier. If installed properly = (=3D20 assuming it is designed properly based on proper information from the=3D20 builder), once up and running they are pretty much trouble free. We = have=3D20 systems out there that are over 25 years old, that have NEVER had a = single=3D =3D20 problem. Also, in general, the parts used in these systems, is = fairly=3D20 generic, and are manufactured for a long period of time, so obsolescence = is=3D =3D20 not near the problem as with consumer electronics.   As to the touch, if what you had before was electro-pneumatic, a new=3D20 computerized (digital) relay will respond quicker (sometimes much = quicker)=3D =3D20 than with older mechanical relays,junctions, etc.   Arie V.     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arie Vandenberg Classic Organbuilders ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com Tel.: 905-475-1263=3D20 --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_24305032= =3D=3D.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <html> <body> At 04:17 PM 2004-06-07 -0300, you wrote:<br> <blockquote type=3D3Dcite class=3D3Dcite cite>I&nbsp; think, one of more important point about de restauration organ is the mantenaince. At time&nbsp; of project, all is promissed.&nbsp; But, latter... who repair the organ?&nbsp; Who, in Brazil, can repair a organ with digital action. One of the two projects was presented by a brazilian men. When I read in Internet, Notre Dame's organ had or have problems... in France, with many resources (money and technology).<br><br> Andr=3DE9s G=3DFCnther wrote:<br> <blockquote type=3D3Dcite class=3D3Dcite cite><blockquote type=3D3Dcite = class=3D3Dci=3D te cite><br> <pre>Well built mechanical systems tend to be very expensive, but also last the longest. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </pre><font face=3D3D"Courier New, Courier"></font></blockquote><br> <pre>...and are the easiest to repair for organ builders there, who in so many cases are little more than intelligent and skilled laymen with some cabinetmaking background. </pre><font face=3D3D"Courier New, Courier"></font></blockquote>It is a exactly thing.<br><br> Domitila</blockquote><br><br> Domitila,<br><br> It cannot be stressed enough, IF you don't have a qualified service person, with an electronic relay, you could be up the creek without a paddle in a hurry.&nbsp; I suppose you would know what the situation is with electronic service personnel in Brazil.&nbsp; Even in North America, there are not near enough good service people around, as far too much electronic stuff sold today is essentially throw away.&nbsp; If it breaks down, throw it away.<br><br> The case of the Notre Dame organ in Paris, is that they tried to do a lot, with untried technology, had way too much money at their disposal, and it was a disaster.&nbsp; I understand that they have already replaced that system, and the new system works much better.<br><br> I work for a company that is a leader in the pipe organ switching system field, and I will repeat what I said earlier.&nbsp; If installed properly&nbsp; ( assuming it is designed properly based on proper information from the builder), once up and running they are pretty much trouble free.&nbsp; We have systems out there that are over 25 years old, that have NEVER had a single problem.&nbsp; Also, in general, the parts used in these systems, is fairly generic, and are manufactured for a long period of time, so obsolescence is not near the problem as with consumer electronics.<br><br> As to the touch, if what you had before was electro-pneumatic, a new computerized (digital) relay will respond quicker&nbsp; (sometimes much quicker) than with older mechanical relays,junctions, etc.<br><br> Arie V.<br><br> <x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br> Arie Vandenberg<br> Classic Organbuilders<br> ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com<br> Tel.: 905-475-1263</body> </html>   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_24305032= =3D=3D.ALT--      
(back) Subject: Re: Tamburini From: "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:37:18 -0700   I agree with Andres, who has written extensively about the difficulties of maintaining pipe organs in South America. If a tracker breaks, or a leather nut comes off or disintegrates, any mechanically-minded person can fix things like that. GOOD tracker organs are pretty indestructible, unless they get rained on. And you have in Brazil FINE native hardwoods that would be almost impervious to the high HUMIDITY. Leather-work is the most difficult, but that's still FAR easier than COMPUTER repair.   Cheers,   Bud Clark San Diego California USA   Domitila Ballesteros wrote:   > I think, one of more important point about de restauration organ is the =   > mantenaince. At time of project, all is promissed. But, latter... who > repair the organ? Who, in Brazil, can repair a organ with digital > action. One of the two projects was presented by a brazilian men. When I =   > read in Internet, Notre Dame's organ had or have problems... in France, > with many resources (money and technology). > > Andr=E9s G=FCnther wrote: > >>>Well built mechanical systems tend to be >>>very expensive, but also last the longest. >>> >>> >>...and are the easiest to repair for organ builders there, who in so = many >>cases are little more than intelligent and skilled laymen with some >>cabinetmaking background. >> > It is a exactly thing. > > Domitila      
(back) Subject: Re: Patriotic suggestions From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:32:53 -0700   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1125474922=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" ; format=3D"flowed"   >Our city started a lunchtime concert series over the summer months >that rotates through the instruments in town. This year I am >playing July 7. The choice of music is up to me and anything goes >for this series. I'm sticking with a more classical approach. > >I thought it would be fun to do at least one patriotic arrangement. > >Any suggestions? > >Brad Eveland ><mailto:bradekc@yahoo.com>bradekc@yahoo.com   Fun?? Ives Variations on "America" --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1125474922=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii"   <!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 } --></style><title>Re: Patriotic suggestions</title></head><body> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>Our city started a lunchtime concert series over the summer months that rotates through the instruments in town.&nbsp; This year I am playing July 7.&nbsp; The choice of music is up to me and anything goes for this series.&nbsp; I'm sticking with a more classical approach.</blockquote> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>I thought it would be fun to do at least one patriotic arrangement.</blockquote> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>Any suggestions?</blockquote> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>Brad Eveland</blockquote> <blockquote type=3D"cite" cite><a href=3D"mailto:bradekc@yahoo.com">bradekc@yahoo.com</a></blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>Fun??&nbsp; Ives Variations on &quot;America&quot;</div> </body> </html> --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1125474922=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D--