PipeChat Digest #4544 - Monday, June 7, 2004
 
Re: Digital Action
  by "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Digital Action
  by "Frances Meyers" <jack-fran1@cox.net>
Re: Patriotic suggestions
  by "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Patriotic suggestions
  by "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net>
tamburini 2
  by "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br>
Re: Tamburini
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
RE: Patriotic suggestions
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Patriotic suggestions
  by <ContraReed@aol.com>
Re: digital "action"
  by "Andrew Barss" <andrew.barss@ns.sympatico.ca>
Deagan Tower Chimes experts
  by <Wuxuzusu@aol.com>
Re: Patriotic suggestions
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Re: digital "action"
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Digital Action From: "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:47:20 -0700       Keys4bach@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 6/7/2004 4:24:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, > kwzimmerman@alltel.net writes: > >> The problem lies somewhere in the CPU > > > > which often can be replaced post haste with the latest at a fraction of > upkeep like on old analog organs.............. > > dale in Florida   But NOT in Brazil (grin).   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Action From: "Frances Meyers" <jack-fran1@cox.net> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:56:00 -0700   In 1983, I started working at San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station = (SONGS) on an IBM-PC with two 5 1/4 inch floppy drives, one to boot up, and the other for data. I used DOS 1.0 or 1.2, I forget. I fell in love with that machine and the concepts still enthrall me. I am on my fifth PC here at home. It became obsolescent the day it arrived and I plugged it in! Now I just absolutely have to increase the memory to 512. I laugh at myself for being so obsessive. Fran   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 1:23 PM Subject: Digital Action >    
(back) Subject: Re: Patriotic suggestions From: "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:57:15 -0700   That old warhouse "Battle Hymn of the Republic" by Wilhousky (sp?) is easy to arrange as a piano/organ duet. We even did it as a CARILLON duet once at the Presbyterian and Episcopal churches on Coronado Island, CA for the 4th of July ... the churches are across the street from each other; we had a phone line between the two to keep the beat.   Cheers,   Bud   DVR wrote:   > Brad.... > Charles Callahan's "Patriotic Suite" is an excellent choice! > I have performed many times with wonderful audience response! > Donna Van Riper, M.M., B.A. > > "Keep a Song in Your Heart!". . . . .Donna > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Patriotic suggestions From: "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:58:16 -0700   True, but Pepper Music or George Butterfield at Organ Stop in San Diego (GBorgan@aol.com) can usually find it for you, if ANYBODY can.   Cheers,   Bud   DarrylbytheSea@aol.com wrote:   > Dear List Friends, > > When we make suggestions for repertoire, both choral and organ, may we > include the publisher? It's so much easier to locate the piece from our > favorite vendor if we know. And for sure, I'm as guilty as others! I > promise I'll do better! > > Thanks. > > Darryl by the Sea > Nashville, TN      
(back) Subject: tamburini 2 From: "Domitila Ballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 20:48:04 -0300   Dear friends,   Thank you very much for your messages. However, I need some days to read calmly your messages. I confess, is a lot of information. I think I will still do some questions about this subject. Domitila      
(back) Subject: Re: Tamburini From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 20:24:43 EDT   Dear Domitila:   It might be more productive to write to several organbuilders than to 1,200 organists and organ hobbyists. They would be able to answer your = questions clearly and concisely based upon experience and accumulated knowledge.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City   ..  
(back) Subject: RE: Patriotic suggestions From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 19:57:40 -0500   The Stars and Stripes Forever.   Always fun, and not so hard - a real crowd pleaser.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Re: Patriotic suggestions From: <ContraReed@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:19:52 EDT   In a message dated 6/7/04 5:47:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mack02445@comcast.net writes:   << Didn't Dudley Buck write a set of variations on the National Anthem = too? >>   What a coincidence - this was discussed this morning on the orchestra chat =   list. There is a piece called (IIRC) Festival Overture by Dudley Buck, = based on the Star Spangled Banner. I don't know if it has been arranged for organ = or not.   Richard  
(back) Subject: Re: digital "action" From: "Andrew Barss" <andrew.barss@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 22:30:18 -0300     On Monday, June 7, 2004, at 07:43 PM, Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications wrote:   > Please. I've read all the electronic substitute makers' propaganda > about that. What they DON'T tell you is that speakers will need > re-coning or replacing every 10-15 years (more often near the coast),   My experience suggests that this is the exception rather than the rule. My father represented Allen organs in the Maritime Canada region (can't get much closer to the coast than that!) from about 1965 until his death in 1990. I continue to maintain an association with the current representative and, while there have been some speakers re-coned and/or replaced, the vast majority are still operating just fine.     > What costs MONEY is when a church puts in a pipe organ and DOESN'T > keep up with the maintenance. That's the churches' fault, NOT the > organs.   Playing the devil's advocate for a moment: How much money will be invested over the life of that pipe organ in annual maintenance and major cleanings/refurbishing which (based on my observations) seem to be required every 20-30 years? How does that compare to replacing an electronic organ every 20-30 years?     > I don't want to put words into Seb Gluck's mouth, but he has OFTEN > said that it is the defeatist attitude of SOME organist that results > in an electronic substitute being installed   This sort of statement suggests the attitude that ANY pipe organ is preferable to ANY digital organ -- I (and I'm clearly not alone on this) do not subscribe to that opinion. I would always prefer a well-built, well-designed, well-maintained pipe organ to a digital organ. However, how often does one or more of those factors fall short of the mark?     > Yes, it's nice to have a recital organ, but not at the expense of > having pipes at ALL. Preludes and postludes are NOT that important, at > least not in liturgical churches. MOST Roman Catholic, Anglican, and > Lutheran churches can be served VERY well by a correctly designed, > voiced, and installed encased organ of 10-20 stops.   Agreed. But not all those churches are installing digital organs are buying 100+ stops! There are a lot of 25-35 stop digital organs being installed (quite successfully, I might add) in churches where a pipe organ is totally impracticable due to physical constraints, monetary constraints, or both.   Often these churches are enjoying their instruments and praising God every bit as vigorously and with every bit as much spirit as any church with a pipe organ. I find that the "pipe-at-any-cost" proponents seem to want these churches to believe that they have somehow "copped out" by buying a non-pipe organ. In my opinion, that's simply not fair!     > It simply is not good stewardship to install an electronic substitute > for $50K-$100K that is going to have to be replaced every 20-30 years > when you could recycle a marvelous 19th century pipe organ like the > one Seb rescued in New York that will BE there for a couple of hundred > years.   Once again, in my experience, the rescued organ remaining in place for a couple of hundred years is the exception rather than the rule. Can you find specific examples? Of course. Can you show valid statistics to suggest that even 25% of the pipe organs sold remain in place for more than 100 years? I doubt it.   As the quality of sound of digital organs improves, I suspect you will find fewer churches parting with them as quickly as 20-30 years from now. Some of those old digital Allens that my father sold back in the early '70s have been replaced but most are still in use by their original owners. Furthermore, the ones that are being replaced are being put back into service in other locations. The original owners are almost always replacing them to obtain better sound -- not because they are beyond repair (or even in need of repair).     > People turn up their noses at small organs and recycled 19th century > organs. That's unfortunate, because they can make more MUSIC than ANY > amount of digitalia. It's the ORGANISTS who don't know what to do with > them.   Right. It's the organists. I believe your statement can be just as accurate turned around: A digital organ can make more MUSIC than ANY amount of pipes. It's the ORGANISTS who don't know what to do with them.   I think the critical word in that sentence is "can."   The music director at our church is an accomplished concert pianist. I once commented about his playing an old upright in the church that was in very poor condition. He responded that, as a professional, he considered it his responsibility to make the best of whatever instrument he was asked to play whether that was a fine concert grand, a grimy old upright with notes not playing, or a digital piano. Would he prefer to play on the fine concert grand? Of course, wouldn't we all? However, he didn't criticize what was available, he simply got on with the job at hand.   There's my $0.02 (or so) worth.   Regards, Andrew Barss Halifax, Nova Scotia    
(back) Subject: Deagan Tower Chimes experts From: <Wuxuzusu@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:32:34 EDT   Another person with Deagan chimes expertise is Joe Manley of Galion, Ohio, =   who is a member of the Deagan Carillon Association. He is the person = responsible for the care of another set of Deagan "harmonic tuning" chimes located in = his church.   Musically, Stan Krider   In a message dated 06/07/2004 5:02:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Robert Ridgeway writes:   The person who is the most knowledgeable about these is, of course, Curt Mangel, the current curator of the Wanamaker organ at the Lord and Taylor store in Philadelphia. Curt previously was the head of the Sanfilippo restoration shop and personally brought this Deagan set back from years of neglect. The other two people = in the country who are experts on all facets of these marvelous musical devices are organ builder Charles Kegg in Uniontown, OH (who has a 20 or = 25 note set installed in a stone tower on his property in a residential community where it plays throughout the day) and William Pugh in Lawrence, =   KS. To my knowledge Bill has restored more of these than anyone else and does this work full time. If a church or public building needs a set restored (or wish to purchase a set) then Bill is the man to contact at 785-842-2782 or FAX at 785-842-1876.  
(back) Subject: Re: Patriotic suggestions From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 20:48:33 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_002E_01C44CD0.CC5A6040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   You can find a march on Battle Hymn of the Republic written in a =3D 19th-century idiom in a collection of my pieces recently published by =3D Augsburg Fortress (first piece in the book). Very listener-friendly.   http://www.augsburgfortress.org/store/item.asp?isbn=3D3D0800676823&clsid=3D= 3D=3D 117824   Robert Lind=3D20 ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: brade=3D20 To: PipeChat=3D20 Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 2:29 PM Subject: Patriotic suggestions     Our city started a lunchtime concert series over the summer months =3D that rotates through the instruments in town. This year I am playing =3D July 7. The choice of music is up to me and anything goes for this =3D series. I'm sticking with a more classical approach.   I thought it would be fun to do at least one patriotic arrangement.   Any suggestions?   ------=3D_NextPart_000_002E_01C44CD0.CC5A6040 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type =3D content=3D3Dtext/html;charset=3D3DISO-8859-1> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>You can find a&nbsp;march on Battle = =3D Hymn of the=3D20 Republic written in a 19th-century idiom in a collection of my pieces =3D recently=3D20 published by Augsburg Fortress (first piece in the book).=3D20 Very&nbsp;listener-friendly.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2><A=3D20 href=3D3D"http://www.augsburgfortress.org/store/item.asp?isbn=3D3D080067682= 3&=3D amp;clsid=3D3D117824">http://www.augsburgfortress.org/store/item.asp?isbn= =3D3D=3D 0800676823&amp;clsid=3D3D117824</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Robert Lind</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3Dbeveland@millsauto.com =3D href=3D3D"mailto:beveland@millsauto.com">brade</A>=3D20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">PipeChat</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 07, 2004 =3D 2:29 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Patriotic =3D suggestions</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Our city started a lunchtime = concert =3D series over=3D20 the summer months that rotates through the instruments in town.&nbsp; = =3D This=3D20 year I am playing July 7.&nbsp; The choice of music is up to me and =3D anything=3D20 goes for this series.&nbsp; I'm sticking with a more classical=3D20 approach.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I thought it would be fun to do at = =3D least one=3D20 patriotic arrangement.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Any suggestions?</FONT><FONT =3D face=3D3DArial=3D20 size=3D3D2></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_002E_01C44CD0.CC5A6040--    
(back) Subject: Re: digital "action" From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 21:47:08 -0400   Dear Andrew, My last two organs were Allens as the one I presently onw. I have = never owned a "new" Allen as my financial situation never did allow that. Most were over 30 years old having been built in the late 60"s. Both are still playing, one in a church and another in a residence again. Both needed = some maintenance but it was minor and cost around $100. for the two instances they required such. The organ I presently own is a digital, having been built in the last ten years (MDS) I probably will be dead before this one needs major service.(I'm 63) For this organ to sound "better" I need to = get better, not the organ. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Barss" <andrew.barss@ns.sympatico.ca> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 9:30 PM Subject: Re: digital "action"     > > On Monday, June 7, 2004, at 07:43 PM, Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma > Publications wrote: > > > Please. I've read all the electronic substitute makers' propaganda > > about that. What they DON'T tell you is that speakers will need > > re-coning or replacing every 10-15 years (more often near the coast), > > My experience suggests that this is the exception rather than the rule. > My father represented Allen organs in the Maritime Canada region (can't > get much closer to the coast than that!) from about 1965 until his > death in 1990. I continue to maintain an association with the current > representative and, while there have been some speakers re-coned and/or > replaced, the vast majority are still operating just fine. > > > > What costs MONEY is when a church puts in a pipe organ and DOESN'T > > keep up with the maintenance. That's the churches' fault, NOT the > > organs. > > Playing the devil's advocate for a moment: How much money will be > invested over the life of that pipe organ in annual maintenance and > major cleanings/refurbishing which (based on my observations) seem to > be required every 20-30 years? How does that compare to replacing an > electronic organ every 20-30 years? > > > > I don't want to put words into Seb Gluck's mouth, but he has OFTEN > > said that it is the defeatist attitude of SOME organist that results > > in an electronic substitute being installed > > This sort of statement suggests the attitude that ANY pipe organ is > preferable to ANY digital organ -- I (and I'm clearly not alone on > this) do not subscribe to that opinion. I would always prefer a > well-built, well-designed, well-maintained pipe organ to a digital > organ. However, how often does one or more of those factors fall short > of the mark? > > > > Yes, it's nice to have a recital organ, but not at the expense of > > having pipes at ALL. Preludes and postludes are NOT that important, at > > least not in liturgical churches. MOST Roman Catholic, Anglican, and > > Lutheran churches can be served VERY well by a correctly designed, > > voiced, and installed encased organ of 10-20 stops. > > Agreed. But not all those churches are installing digital organs are > buying 100+ stops! There are a lot of 25-35 stop digital organs being > installed (quite successfully, I might add) in churches where a pipe > organ is totally impracticable due to physical constraints, monetary > constraints, or both. > > Often these churches are enjoying their instruments and praising God > every bit as vigorously and with every bit as much spirit as any church > with a pipe organ. I find that the "pipe-at-any-cost" proponents seem > to want these churches to believe that they have somehow "copped out" > by buying a non-pipe organ. In my opinion, that's simply not fair! > > > > It simply is not good stewardship to install an electronic substitute > > for $50K-$100K that is going to have to be replaced every 20-30 years > > when you could recycle a marvelous 19th century pipe organ like the > > one Seb rescued in New York that will BE there for a couple of hundred > > years. > > Once again, in my experience, the rescued organ remaining in place for > a couple of hundred years is the exception rather than the rule. Can > you find specific examples? Of course. Can you show valid statistics to > suggest that even 25% of the pipe organs sold remain in place for more > than 100 years? I doubt it. > > As the quality of sound of digital organs improves, I suspect you will > find fewer churches parting with them as quickly as 20-30 years from > now. Some of those old digital Allens that my father sold back in the > early '70s have been replaced but most are still in use by their > original owners. Furthermore, the ones that are being replaced are > being put back into service in other locations. The original owners are > almost always replacing them to obtain better sound -- not because they > are beyond repair (or even in need of repair). > > > > People turn up their noses at small organs and recycled 19th century > > organs. That's unfortunate, because they can make more MUSIC than ANY > > amount of digitalia. It's the ORGANISTS who don't know what to do with > > them. > > Right. It's the organists. I believe your statement can be just as > accurate turned around: A digital organ can make more MUSIC than ANY > amount of pipes. It's the ORGANISTS who don't know what to do with them. > > I think the critical word in that sentence is "can." > > The music director at our church is an accomplished concert pianist. I > once commented about his playing an old upright in the church that was > in very poor condition. He responded that, as a professional, he > considered it his responsibility to make the best of whatever > instrument he was asked to play whether that was a fine concert grand, > a grimy old upright with notes not playing, or a digital piano. Would > he prefer to play on the fine concert grand? Of course, wouldn't we > all? However, he didn't criticize what was available, he simply got on > with the job at hand. > > There's my $0.02 (or so) worth. > > Regards, > Andrew Barss > Halifax, Nova Scotia > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >