PipeChat Digest #4552 - Wednesday, June 9, 2004
 
Re: small pipe organs
  by "Andrew Barss" <andrew.barss@ns.sympatico.ca>
Re: small pipe organs
  by "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net>
Small Practice Organ
  by "Higgins, Floyd (GSP)" <fhiggins@gspinc.com>
Denominational Organs
  by "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net>
small pipe organs
  by "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net>
Re: small pipe organs
  by "Andrew Barss" <andrew.barss@ns.sympatico.ca>
Re: Re: foam speakers
  by "Steve Chandler" <stevec@open-tech.com>
Re: small pipe organs
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: small pipe organs From: "Andrew Barss" <andrew.barss@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:10:54 -0300   Bud,   I don't want you to think I'm picking on you -- I'm not. However, I have to dispute even this.   Last week I visited a little church with a tiny digital that was shoe-horned into the choir loft. I just double-checked and the size of the Wicks organ in your link is larger on every dimension than the little digital. Most importantly, the height is 33" greater which would preclude the organist being able to see to direct the choir (which has to stand around the organ) in this little church.   And, no, there is no other place for the organ. The entrance to the choir-loft is directly behind the organ in the center and if you pushed the organ against either a side or back wall, the organist would not be able to see in order to direct the choir.   I will concede that the Wicks would probably sound better than the digital in that church. However, it would also require regular maintenance which the digital will not. This church scraped together the money for the digital and they don't have an annual budget that permits servicing a 65 year-old pipe organ -- even a small one. There are just some instances where a pipe organ is not practical or even feasible -- for a variety of reasons.   Cheers, Andrew     On 9-Jun-04, at 10:27 AM, Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications wrote:   > For those who say some churches have no room for a pipe organ, I call > your attention to Simon's new house organ: > > http://www.nieminski.com/houseorg.html > > Moller built zillions of a slightly larger version; a slightly updated > and Anglicized version of THAT would serve most small to medium sized > churches ADMIRABLY: > > RANK > > 1. Open Diapason > 2. Stopt Diapason > 3. Salicional > 4. Vox Celeste > 5. Nazard > 6. Tierce > 7. Small Trumpet or Oboe > > MANUAL I > > 2. 16' Bourdon - full compass > 1. 8' Open Diapason - full compass > 2. 8' Stopt Diapason > 3. 8' Salicional - full compass > 1. 4' Octave > 2. 4' Flute > 2. 2' Fifteenth > 7. 8' Reed > > MANUAL II > > 2. 8' Stopt Diapason > 3. 8' Salicional > 4. 8' Vox Celeste > 2. 4' Flute > 3. 4' Violina > 5. 2 2/3' Nazard - full compass > 2. 2' Piccolo > 6. 1 3/5' Tierce - full compass > 5. 1 1/3' Larigot > 7. 16' Reed - full compass - mitred/half-length, notes 1-12 > 7. 8' Reed > 7. 4' Reed > > PEDAL > > 2. 16' Bourdon (reinforced with 5 1/3 from #5, and 8' from #3, notes > 1-12) > 1. 8' Open Diapason > 2. 8' Stopt Diapason > 3. 8' Salicional > 1. 4' Chorale Bass > 2. 4' Flute > 7. 16' Reed > 7. 8' Reed > 7. 4' Reed > > Since the Diapason rank doesn't appear on Manual II, it could be left > unenclosed so that the enclosed reed could express *through* it ... > that's a problem with small organs when EVERYTHING is placed in the > swell box. > > Cheers, > > Bud > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: small pipe organs From: "Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications" <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 08:39:58 -0700   Can we lay to rest once and for all the erroneous notion that digital organs do NOT require maintenance?   They DO.   So do pipe organs.   It's a lot easier to reach into the case and pull a cyphering pipe than it is to get a digital repairman out of bed at 7:30 a.m. on a Sunday to drive down from LA because the whole Great won't play, or the Pedal, or the whole ORGAN, or the transposer has mated with an alien life-form and is merrily running round the circle of fifths.   ALL of those things have happened on DIGITAL organs that I have played.   The worst thing that's ever happened on a pipe organ has been a cypher, or a blown rectifier fuse, both of which *I* can repair ... and in one case a broken leather generator belt, which I DID have to have the local harness-maker come and repair.   I CAN'T change out ailing mother-boards.   Old Holy Trinity in Bartow FL seated about 50 people; they had the Moller version of Simon's Wicks; the organist conducted with her back to the other side of the choir for fifty years.   So did Don Pearson at St. John's Cathedral in Denver.   So do THOUSANDS of organists in the U.K.   If one does not WANT a pipe organ (for WHATEVER reason), an EXCUSE can ALWAYS be found, but they're just that: EXCUSES. If the gallery in the church in question was THAT small, undoubtedly a one-manual box organ, which WOULDN'T have a larger footprint than a digital console, would have been PLENTY of sound.   Cheers,   Bud   Andrew Barss wrote:   > Bud, > > I don't want you to think I'm picking on you -- I'm not. However, I have =   > to dispute even this. > > Last week I visited a little church with a tiny digital that was > shoe-horned into the choir loft. I just double-checked and the size of > the Wicks organ in your link is larger on every dimension than the > little digital. Most importantly, the height is 33" greater which would > preclude the organist being able to see to direct the choir (which has > to stand around the organ) in this little church. > > And, no, there is no other place for the organ. The entrance to the > choir-loft is directly behind the organ in the center and if you pushed > the organ against either a side or back wall, the organist would not be > able to see in order to direct the choir. > > I will concede that the Wicks would probably sound better than the > digital in that church. However, it would also require regular > maintenance which the digital will not. This church scraped together the =   > money for the digital and they don't have an annual budget that permits > servicing a 65 year-old pipe organ -- even a small one. There are just > some instances where a pipe organ is not practical or even feasible -- > for a variety of reasons. > > Cheers, > Andrew > > > On 9-Jun-04, at 10:27 AM, Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications wrote: > >> For those who say some churches have no room for a pipe organ, I call >> your attention to Simon's new house organ: >> >> http://www.nieminski.com/houseorg.html >> >> Moller built zillions of a slightly larger version; a slightly updated >> and Anglicized version of THAT would serve most small to medium sized >> churches ADMIRABLY: >> >> RANK >> >> 1. Open Diapason >> 2. Stopt Diapason >> 3. Salicional >> 4. Vox Celeste >> 5. Nazard >> 6. Tierce >> 7. Small Trumpet or Oboe >> >> MANUAL I >> >> 2. 16' Bourdon - full compass >> 1. 8' Open Diapason - full compass >> 2. 8' Stopt Diapason >> 3. 8' Salicional - full compass >> 1. 4' Octave >> 2. 4' Flute >> 2. 2' Fifteenth >> 7. 8' Reed >> >> MANUAL II >> >> 2. 8' Stopt Diapason >> 3. 8' Salicional >> 4. 8' Vox Celeste >> 2. 4' Flute >> 3. 4' Violina >> 5. 2 2/3' Nazard - full compass >> 2. 2' Piccolo >> 6. 1 3/5' Tierce - full compass >> 5. 1 1/3' Larigot >> 7. 16' Reed - full compass - mitred/half-length, notes 1-12 >> 7. 8' Reed >> 7. 4' Reed >> >> PEDAL >> >> 2. 16' Bourdon (reinforced with 5 1/3 from #5, and 8' from #3, notes >> 1-12) >> 1. 8' Open Diapason >> 2. 8' Stopt Diapason >> 3. 8' Salicional >> 1. 4' Chorale Bass >> 2. 4' Flute >> 7. 16' Reed >> 7. 8' Reed >> 7. 4' Reed >> >> Since the Diapason rank doesn't appear on Manual II, it could be left >> unenclosed so that the enclosed reed could express *through* it ... >> that's a problem with small organs when EVERYTHING is placed in the >> swell box. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Bud >> >> >> >> >> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> >> > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Small Practice Organ From: "Higgins, Floyd (GSP)" <fhiggins@gspinc.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:45:58 -0400   Here's another idea for a small tracker practice/studio/chapel organ. = I copied this from the Web, but don't remember the author or site. If = you wrote this, please forgive me for this.   Floyd Higgins Hartford CT   ---   A few weeks ago I was in the small town of Kilkhampton, Cornwall (UK) = for a concert at St. James' Church. During a break in my afternoon rehearsal = I was taken to the Methodist Chapel, my appetite having been whetted by the mention of a Father Willis organ.=20 I was told that the instrument had been the residence organ of W.H. = Monk (1823-89), the composer of such well-known hymn-tunes as Eventide, All Things Bright and Beautiful, Merton, and Evelyns. The organ stands at = the front of the chapel behing the choir pews, its 8ft. spotted metal front imposing in this little building. To my delight the console indeed = suggested the work of Father Willis, and the copperplate script on the drawstop shields suggested a date in the 1860s (I later found that the NPOR identifies the organ as an 1867 Willis). The manual keys had obviously = been resurfaced, but everything else, including the low bench and the = trigger swell pedal, appeared to have survived unaltered. As I sat down and = began to explore, this is what I found:=20 CHOIR: Lieblich Gedact 8, Principal 4 GREAT: Open Diapason 8, Fl=FBte Harmonique 4 SWELL: Salcional 8, Hautboy 8 PEDALE: Bourdon 16=20 Tremulant (inoperative) Couplers: 3 to Pedal; Swell to Great, Choir to Great, Octave coupler to Great Trigger pedal to Swell Horse-shoe pedal for Great to Pedal reversible Four composition pedals to all the manual stops Compass: 56/30=20 As I played it quickly became clear that not only is this organ a = little gem, but also a fiendishly cunning one. What we have, in effect, is the tonal complement of a normal one- (or perhaps two-) manual organ of the period, distributed over three manuals, with an immesurable gain in versatility.=20 To play on the Open Diapason alone (the bass pipes of which form the = front display) mercilessly reveals any flaws of articulation and continuity = of line. This 1860s mechanical action is quite as responsive as most late 20th-century examples. Add the octave coupler and a flood of tone is released. Now try the Choir 4ft. Principal alone. It is gentler and = looser in tone than its big brother on Great. Put in the octave coupler and = couple through the 4ft. Principal to the 8ft. Open, and a more transparent, = livlier chorus is the result.=20 Uncouple the manuals once more. Full Great balances full Choir nicely, = and the different pitch-centre of each - 8ft. and 4ft. respectively - = ensures that the divisions are well contrasted. This is perhaps the most useful result of not grouping all the stops on one manual, or indeed not = arranging them in the conventional manner on two manuals, which would certainly = have set the Open Diapason and Principal against the flutes, a far less = useful plan.=20 Another recipe for balanced, contrasted choruses is to couple Swell to Great, add the Octave coupler, and play 8ft. Salcional and 4ft. Fl=FBte Harmonique (sounding 8.4.4.2) against full Choir. Substitute the = Hautboy (still with octave coupler) for the Salcional, and the choruses become = yet more widely contrasted in colour.=20 The Salcional alone will accompany the Lieblich Gedact, or the Fl=FBte Harmonique, or the Principal. The Fl=FBte Harmonique will accompany and dialogue with the Principal. The Gedact or the Fl=FBte Harmonique, or = both together, will accompany or dialogue with the Hautboy. Full Swell will accompany the Open Diapason. The two flutes will play in dialogue. = These were just the immediate possibilities which occured as I played this seemingly innocuous 7-stop organ.=20 Dividing the stops between three manuals greatly increases the initial = cost of building an organ, but it became evident that it had been worth = every penny.=20 There are four mechanical composition pedals. The presumably original settings are very clever and suggestive. Each pedal draws Swell to = Great, Choir to Great and Great to Pedal, plus a selection of speaking stops. = Thus one plays the following melanges from the Great manual:=20 1. Salcional 8, Principal 4.=20 2. Salcional 8. 3. Salcional 8, Hautboy 8, Fl=FBte Harmonique 4, Principal 4. 4. All manual stops with 8ve coupler.=20 What we have in effect is general combinations at four dynamic levels: = MP, P, MF and F. Note that these settings make it very easy to add or = subtract further stops from each - adding the Gedact or Fl=FBte Harmonique to = No. 1; likewise to No.2; adding the Open Diapason or Octave coupler to No.3; subtracting the Octave coupler, or Open Diapason, or Principal, or = Hautboy, from No.4. These settings are exactly the kind which are most useful to = the player in the course of a movement. How easy it is to move gently = between one set combination to the next by hand registration, and how = infinitely more useful it is to have four general combinations than one or two to = each manual.=20 Hand-registration giving contrasting choruses and dialogues; = composition pedals giving ensemble combinations. This instrument seemed to contain = a wealth of colour - and the means for its control - out of all = proportion to its size.=20 My fleeting hour's meeting with this remarkable Victorian organ has stimulated me greatly. For a small instrument, it seems to me to be all = that could be desired. As a working concert organist, I find three-manuality almost essential in a general-purpose practise organ. Here is a big instrument in miniature, and as such it reacts well to the romantic repertoire. There is none of the unsatisfactory effect which is so = often results when playing 19th and 20th century music on small organs biased towards a tonal centre higher than 8ft. At Kilkhampton there is no = intrusive upperwork to hurt your ears at close quarters, but there is a solid foundation of 8ft and 16ft registers. There is a proper complement of = open metal pipes; you do not, as is so often the case in modern small = organs, suffer death by flutes.=20 I wonder if Father Willis made any further organs like this one? I = wonder where I can pick one up for my music room?  
(back) Subject: Denominational Organs From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:54:28 -0400   List,   Bud said, "Moller built zillions of a slightly larger version; a slightly updated and Anglicized version of THAT would serve most small to medium sized churches ADMIRABLY: . . . "   Bud's use of the term "Anglicized version" brings up a question that I've wanted to ask for a good while. I think I have a very vague idea of what = he means, but I don't know the specifics. The concept was also stated in a description of a small organ designed by Kenneth Tickell for a convent - = the idea that the kind of music that is to be played on the organ dictates the size, the stoplist and the voicing.   I have grown up Southern Baptist and have been in congregations that are very formal (having trained musicians, pipe organ, no guitars or = recordings) as well as some that are more or less contemporary. I attended a pretty "serious" PCA church while I was in Medical School. I never "picked up = on" differences in the kinds of music that would have had a great effect on a stoplist. I have attended one Episcopal service and one Lutheran service. I have never attended a Catholic service.   Could someone attempt to give - using specific music - how stoplists might vary according to denomination. To keep things simple, I'd like to = consider a smallish two-manual instrument in similar sized congregations of = different denominations.   Thanks, Keith    
(back) Subject: small pipe organs From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:33:29 -0400   Bud and others,   I like the stoplist Bud suggested. It will require some changes in both congregations and builders:   1. All those involved will have to get over their hatred of = unification. We will have to accept the idea of "judicious" unification as opposed to = the type used in the Moller Artistes and this particular Wicks such as the synthesis of reeds.   I do notice that the Nasard and Tierce are separated out as individual = ranks allowing them to be properly tuned to perfect intervals from unison. = We've been told that the small ranks of pipes are very inexpensive relative to other ranks and very little is saved by deriving them from another rank. The Nasard and Larigot, being an octave apart, can be obtained from the = same rank.   2. Those of use who are organists - both the formally trained as well = as those of us who had to "pick it up" with no formal training - will have to come to grips with the idea that a church organ is NOT a concert organ. Perhaps that is where these 4 and 5 manual organs - both pipe and electronic - are originating from. A church organ needs to provide music that assists in worship. It does NOT need to play all French, German, or other literature.   I think Bud and Sebastian, within the past several months, commented on = the kinds of registrations or settings that are needed for almost all "church" music.   As a pianist, I am guilty of falling into the trap of thinking that my preludes, offeratories, and postludes are mini-concerts in which I show = off my abilities to the congregations. Baptist congregations can be quite informal and are often generous with applause. Now I'm attending a small "Reformed Baptist Church", and I've started to rethink exactly what my purpose is in playing these pieces. Am I promoting an attidude of prayer, contemplation, praise, rememberance, or am I trying to tickle their ears with my ability? I think the same thing occurs with organs. The bigger = the organ, the more we can entertain. I'm not being judgemental here because there's a large area of gray in this topic. I fear that some of our churches have become miniature "schools of fine arts" or "music conservatories" and have left their true callings.   3. For the average church, is the necessary scaling SO unique that builders truly cannot come up with some "catalog" organs that can be delivered within a few weeks to the church? Can "touch up" voicing = provide appropriate adjustment for carpeting?   I did notice that the Wicks website features some of these. Are these purely "off the shelf" with no final adjustments allowed?   I guess those who get one of the organs from OCH or any other used organ are, in essence, getting an organ from a catalog since it is already = scaled. There must be some degree of lattitude here such that each pipe organ doesn't HAVE to be carefully hand-made with every detail being intimitely tied to the room in which it will reside.   4. Somehow, cost is going to have to come down. The organ Bud = mentioned would likely cost over $100,000 if built to order right now. I realize that, unless the demand for pipe organs increases, the difference to the builders cannot be made up by increasing the number of organs delivered. = To put it in perspective, the church where I was organist for 15 years = replaced its aging Baldwin living room organ (with external speakers) with a = Rodgers 702 for appr. $17,000. It was a small to medium two manual instrument which, although it has no pipes, is sooo much better than the one it replaced. I don't remember how many "ranks" it represented, but it would = be a little larger than the one Bud mentioned. For many reasons, there's no sense in talking to "this" congregation about a pipe organ.   5. Builders will have to WANT to do a rebuild or move a pipe organ from one location to another. After some of these organs are redone, is there remaining a great difference between the church's outlay for this used = organ and what they would have paid for a new one? I realize that builders = might not want to take a used organ and try to straighten out the previous builders blunders in order to improve the sound for another congregation.   6. The critics will have to leave the builders and churches alone for = not restoring an organ to its original configuration. Maybe only the pipes = are used. The builder might change Mr. X's beautiful diapason into a = principal or something else.   Anyway, I'm hungry. I think I got a little carried away and went off on a few tangents up there. I'd appreciate your comments.   Keith    
(back) Subject: Re: small pipe organs From: "Andrew Barss" <andrew.barss@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:33:29 -0300   I didn't say digital organs don't require maintenance. I said they don't require REGULAR maintenance -- and pipe organs DO if you want them to play well.   My local Allen dealer (with whom I maintain a cordial relationship) has about 150 digital organs in the field -- some of those dating back as far as 1972. The store processes approximately 15 service trips per year on average. Some of those are "repeat offenders" i.e., older instruments with open key contacts in particularly dirty environments that require cleaning at least every year or so. That problem, by the way, has was addressed (by Allen, at least) nearly 20 years ago by changing to sealed contact switches.   On average, then, that's (approximately) one trip per organ every ten years! I'd hate to see the condition of most any pipe organ that only received service once in ten years. And let me add that, in my experience, owners of digital organs are far less tolerant of even little problems than owners of pipe organs -- whom I have seen live with significant troubles for months "until the tuner gets here."   Cheers, Andrew   On 9-Jun-04, at 12:39 PM, Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications wrote:   > Can we lay to rest once and for all the erroneous notion that digital > organs do NOT require maintenance? > > They DO.    
(back) Subject: Re: Re: foam speakers From: "Steve Chandler" <stevec@open-tech.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 11:43:24 -0500   > > >Bob Conway wrote > >Now, I am sure that aluminum cones would more or less disintegrate in a >sea-side atmosphere, but he lives in the middle of England, - a long way >from the sea. > > > Bob, actually alumunim holds up very well in a marine environment. Aluminum Oxide, unlike rust (Iron Oxide) forms a very strong protective layer that prevents further oxidation.   >James Grebe wrote > >Aluminum coned speakers are used by Hartke, a manufacturer of stage amps, >and Sharper Image is producing HI-Fi speakers with alum also.. > > The Hartke amps have been well regarded for many years. Something that hasn't been mentioned is the use of Kevlar (yup, same stuff they make bullet proof vests with). It's very rigid, light and impervious to the environment, perfect for speaker cones. It's used by a number of high end audio manufacturers, just google kevlar sperakers and see what comes up. Surrounds are still another story, from what I see the rubber stuff is the best.   Steve Chandler http://www.soundclick.com/stevechandler http://www.audiostreet.net/stevechandler    
(back) Subject: Re: small pipe organs From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 12:06:08 -0500   here's one for you - our digital now has "random access" expression pedals - sometimes, but not all the time, at some point anywhere from halfway to almost closed, the pedal changes direction and the organ starts getting louder instead of softer... and yes - if something goes dead - it isn't a single note or even a single stop - it is either all the flues or all the reed on a whole division (or only one channel of them - which means one side or the other of the chromatic scale - since the 2 channels are divided like the left and right side of a windchest).... then one week a couple of months ago (fortunately the only time it has happened) every time a pushed a piston the stop setting had changed... Just in the last year, the random factor throughout the organ is increasing - which can kind of adds excitement and suspense to Sunday morning... ;-)   Even when the organ was new - we learned quickly that we had to have really good voltage regulating power strips with capacitance and that it had to have its very own circuit shared by no lighting fixtures or other electronic devices - because power spikes come through the organ as sound - usually a "cypher" of a tone cluster with ALL the stops sounding at once.   they don't require tuning or much in the way of routine maintenance - but when something goes wrong - it is not a single identifiable thing that you can work around - at best it is an entire division that simply cannot be used until fixed. I once had to play a wedding with no swell division - which meant no reeds - but it had worked perfectly fine the day before - and guess what, worked perfectly fine the next day before the repairman could even get there and there never was anything he could identify to fix.   Margo   Raymond H. Clark, Quilisma Publications wrote: > Can we lay to rest once and for all the erroneous notion that digital > organs do NOT require maintenance? > > They DO. > > So do pipe organs. > > It's a lot easier to reach into the case and pull a cyphering pipe than > it is to get a digital repairman out of bed at 7:30 a.m. on a Sunday to > drive down from LA because the whole Great won't play, or the Pedal, or > the whole ORGAN, or the transposer has mated with an alien life-form and =   > is merrily running round the circle of fifths. > > ALL of those things have happened on DIGITAL organs that I have played. > > The worst thing that's ever happened on a pipe organ has been a cypher, > or a blown rectifier fuse, both of which *I* can repair ... and in one > case a broken leather generator belt, which I DID have to have the local =   > harness-maker come and repair. > > I CAN'T change out ailing mother-boards. >