PipeChat Digest #4562 - Wednesday, June 16, 2004
 
one rank exposed, the rest in a chamber
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: one rank exposed, the rest in a chamber
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
RE: Single Expression
  by "Mark & Cinda Towne" <mstowne@concentric.net>
RE: Single Expression
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
RE: St. Louis Fox to celebrate its 75-year anniversary [x-posted]
  by "Chris Elliott" <christian_elliott@hotmail.com>
 

(back) Subject: one rank exposed, the rest in a chamber From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:44:41 EDT   I played a 15 or 16 rank organ that Charles Kegg built at the Methodist Church in Winnsboro, SC, that had the 8 and 4 Great Principals unenclosed = and the rest of the organ was enclosed. The organ was very smooth and the = crescendo effects weren't bumpy or out of balance. It all comes down to voicing, or = lack thereof.   An organ of that size is generally going to have unit stops and duplexes = and when a builder voices the ranks taking those factors into consideration, = you don't get the disparity of the enclosed vs. unenclosed ranks. Of course, = the unenclosed rank is always going to be louder, but it shouldn't be so loud = that it was only useable as the last stop drawn in a postlude.   Fault also partially lies with the churches that accept organs like the = one Margo described. Why do they let the builders get by without making any alterations before making the final payment. I would have asked them to = voice the unenclosed rank down if it was so raucous as to be almost unusable, before =   making the final portion of payment, which generally constitutes = acceptance on the church's part.   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Re: one rank exposed, the rest in a chamber From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:12:48 -0500   I have to give the church a little credit here (or its lack of organ builder) or maybe take away credit - you decide - it was a very small church in a very small town - who had a dentist that had once apprentised as an organ builder. A bunch of the men of the church got together with the dentist and drove across the state to somewhere that they got this E.M.Skinner that was being removed. They carted it back in their pick up trucks, and the dentist got his friend the organ builder to help, and they put it in the church. Story was that the chamber they made in the walls was not big enough to hold the 16' Gedeckt in the pedal (yep, big ole wood stop), so they put it outside on the wall like a facade. I'm not sure how much re-voicing, etc. took place. But I must say, years later when I was there, except for the 16' Gedeckt having to be used as if it was a 32' Bombarde that shook the walls and rattled the choir loft - the rest of the organ was absolutely lovely. I'd fish a Skinner out of anyone's trash any day after playing that instrument for 3 years.   But that one stop on the wall has just left me with this lingering memory and phobia of one rank on the wall being too in-you-face to go with the rest of the organ. Every other organ I have ever played had whole divisions either inside or outside, but not one stop of a division separated from the rest. I can see that it would be a matter of the voicer knowing what they were doing to make it balance.   Thanks for the input. Margo     > > Fault also partially lies with the churches that accept organs like the > one Margo described. Why do they let the builders get by without making =   > any alterations before making the final payment. I would have asked > them to voice the unenclosed rank down if it was so raucous as to be > almost unusable, before making the final portion of payment, which > generally constitutes acceptance on the church's part. > > Monty Bennett     -- Dr. Margo Dillard Organist, FUMC, Lewisville, TX Musical Feast Choral Society Dillard Piano & Organ Studio    
(back) Subject: RE: Single Expression From: "Mark & Cinda Towne" <mstowne@concentric.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:42:07 -0700   Good morning all,   I thought that the organ at St. James in Chicago was an Austin.   Mark S. Towne Sub Dean, Southern Nevada Chapter, AGO & Conclave Coordinator, Region IX 2006 Mid-Winter Conclave   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Storandt, Peter Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 9:25 AM To: PipeChat Subject: RE: Single Expression     In the current organ at St. James Cathedral in Chicago (mostly E.M. Skinner), there are a few stops at the back of the nave in flower boxes that were added by the Bradford Organ Company when the present instrument was put together and refurbished. When stops from this group are added to a registration during a hymn, they overpower the main organ in the chancel in a most unpleasant way. I don't think you would necessarily have this problem with unenclosed ranks in your church, given that all pipes would be in the same neighborhood, but voicing would need to be sensitive.   Peter   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Margo Dillard Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 8:06 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Single Expression   OK - while we are on this subject - we are currently "shopping" organ builders - and we have had more than one suggest putting only 1 or 2 ranks outside on the wall, and rest of the great and pedal inside the chamber (possibly even under expression). I have only ever played one organ that had that situation (only one rank outside the chamber) many years ago - and in its case, the one rank was SO much LOUDER than the rest of the organ, you could only use it for a "climax" last-note of the   postlude kind of stop. Give me some opinions - is this a problem or was   it just that organ. Will I be happy if the whole organ is inside a chamber except one pedal principal and one great principal - or will I feel like the rest of the great is in another room??   Thanks, Margo   Andy Lawrence wrote: > I have played and maintained small organs that are entirely in one > expression box. I think its a great idea, when you bring cost savings into > the equation (when applicable). Sure, it would be nice to have some > unenclosed pipework, too, but often there are major complications to making > this happen, as in your case. One problem with everything under expression > is you have no pipe facade. Visual problem only (though you might be able > to find some attractive pipes to use as dummies). The musical problem with > it is that you can't significantly change the tone with the swell pedal, but > only volume. But there will be times when you appreciate being able to > quiet down the whole organ equally. So I wouldn't say its a musical > disadvantage... there are musical advantages and disadvantages. I wouldn't > worry about it. Even the largest organs have compromises. You have to > balance cost with practicality. > > One of my pet peeves is when builders put part of a rank IN the box, and > part of it OUT of the box. I say, if you can't put an entire rank in the > box, put the whole thing outside. Generally speaking, when split up this > way, you have to leave the box open if you are using that stop. Very > annoying. > > Andy > > > >>If the ranks are balanced appropriately relatively to each other, do >>you see much of a problem (musically) with having the whole organ >>under single expression? > > >>Thanks, >>Keith > > > > A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service > PO Box 111 > Burlington, VT 05402 > (802)578-3936 > Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >     -- Dr. Margo Dillard Organist, FUMC, Lewisville, TX Musical Feast Choral Society Dillard Piano & Organ Studio   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org         "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: RE: Single Expression From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:46:02 -0500   It was. But the opera house Skinner became available a few years ago and is now installed as the main instrument, with a few Austin ranks remaining (plus the "augmentations" in back). The console is the original Skinner from Royce Hall at UCLA, refurbished. In most ways, it's a highly successful outcome and vastly superior to the old Austin.   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Mark & Cinda Towne Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 9:42 AM To: PipeChat Subject: RE: Single Expression   Good morning all,   I thought that the organ at St. James in Chicago was an Austin.   Mark S. Towne Sub Dean, Southern Nevada Chapter, AGO & Conclave Coordinator, Region IX 2006 Mid-Winter Conclave=20   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Storandt, Peter Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 9:25 AM To: PipeChat Subject: RE: Single Expression     In the current organ at St. James Cathedral in Chicago (mostly E.M. Skinner), there are a few stops at the back of the nave in flower boxes that were added by the Bradford Organ Company when the present instrument was put together and refurbished. When stops from this group are added to a registration during a hymn, they overpower the main organ in the chancel in a most unpleasant way. I don't think you would necessarily have this problem with unenclosed ranks in your church, given that all pipes would be in the same neighborhood, but voicing would need to be sensitive.   Peter   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Margo Dillard Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 8:06 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Single Expression   OK - while we are on this subject - we are currently "shopping" organ=20 builders - and we have had more than one suggest putting only 1 or 2=20 ranks outside on the wall, and rest of the great and pedal inside the=20 chamber (possibly even under expression). I have only ever played one=20 organ that had that situation (only one rank outside the chamber) many=20 years ago - and in its case, the one rank was SO much LOUDER than the=20 rest of the organ, you could only use it for a "climax" last-note of the   postlude kind of stop. Give me some opinions - is this a problem or was   it just that organ. Will I be happy if the whole organ is inside a=20 chamber except one pedal principal and one great principal - or will I=20 feel like the rest of the great is in another room??   Thanks, Margo   Andy Lawrence wrote: > I have played and maintained small organs that are entirely in one=20 > expression box. I think its a great idea, when you bring cost savings into=20 > the equation (when applicable). Sure, it would be nice to have some=20 > unenclosed pipework, too, but often there are major complications to making=20 > this happen, as in your case. One problem with everything under expression=20 > is you have no pipe facade. Visual problem only (though you might be able=20 > to find some attractive pipes to use as dummies). The musical problem with=20 > it is that you can't significantly change the tone with the swell pedal, but=20 > only volume. But there will be times when you appreciate being able to=20 > quiet down the whole organ equally. So I wouldn't say its a musical=20 > disadvantage... there are musical advantages and disadvantages. I wouldn't=20 > worry about it. Even the largest organs have compromises. You have to=20 > balance cost with practicality. >=20 > One of my pet peeves is when builders put part of a rank IN the box, and=20 > part of it OUT of the box. I say, if you can't put an entire rank in the=20 > box, put the whole thing outside. Generally speaking, when split up this=20 > way, you have to leave the box open if you are using that stop. Very=20 > annoying. >=20 > Andy >=20 >=20 >=20 >>If the ranks are balanced appropriately relatively to each other, do=20 >>you see much of a problem (musically) with having the whole organ=20 >>under single expression? >=20 >=20 >>Thanks, >>Keith >=20 >=20 >=20 > A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service > PO Box 111 > Burlington, VT 05402 > (802)578-3936 > Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >=20 >=20 >=20     --=20 Dr. Margo Dillard Organist, FUMC, Lewisville, TX Musical Feast Choral Society Dillard Piano & Organ Studio   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org         "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org       "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org          
(back) Subject: RE: St. Louis Fox to celebrate its 75-year anniversary [x-posted] From: "Chris Elliott" <christian_elliott@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:42:51 -0700   The Brooklyn Fox organ was broken up for parts. Only the console is what = is installed in the private residence in Gig Harbor, Washington.       ------- [1] Jesse Crawford did not actually design the "Crawford Special" but = merely stipulated the inclusion of certain ranks. However, he did have high = praise for the specifications.   [2] The other Crawford Special still in its original home is the Detroit = Fox instrument.   The first Crawford Special was located in the Paramount Theater in Manhattan and is now in the Century II Exhibition Hall in Wichita, Kansas.   The San Francisco Fox instrument is now in the El Capitan Theater in Hollywood.   The Brooklyn Fox instrument is now in a private residence in Gig Harbor, Washington (this is actually a 37-rank instrument).   The latter three Fox Theaters have all been demolished. Only Detroit and St. Louis remain.   -------   For photos and more info, SEE: http://www.sltos.org/FOX436.htm http://www.michael.leland.name/stl022.htm   -------     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   _________________________________________________________________ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! = http://youroffers.msn.com