PipeChat Digest #4321 - Monday, March 1, 2004
 
Re: should the organist be a member of the denomination?
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: should the organist be a member of the denomination?
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: : chicago style...off topic Mo Syn's
  by "Dennis Goward" <dlgoward@cox.net>
RE: chicago style
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Chicago-style folk liturgy
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Chicago style and changes in Missouri
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: should the organist be a member of the denomination?
  by "Mura Kievman" <mura@speakeasy.net>
Re: Chicago-style
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Allentown Recital on Friday
  by "Stephen Williams" <stepwill@enter.net>
RE: chicago style...off topic Mo Syn's
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
Lutheran churchmanship in San Diego!
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Re: Allen Organ Model 314
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
RE: Lutheran churchmanship in San Diego!
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
Re: Allen Organ Model 314
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: chicago style...off topic Mo Syn's
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Lutheran Parishes (Off-topic response)
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: chicago style
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
RE: chicago style
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
 

(back) Subject: Re: should the organist be a member of the denomination? From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:44:04 +0800   Well Bud, I play in Uniting (ex-Methodist) Churches, an RC Church, and an Anglican Church when needed, and what you are saying does not make much sense to me. I can say with confidence that I understand much more of the = RC tradition and the Anglican tradition in music than some of the leaders in the churches. I have been playing in their churches for many years. I = "grew up" in the Methodist Church in this state which was largely non = liturgical, although liturgy was used (not sung) for the sacraments. If the organists here had to come up through the various traditions by doing all you say there would be very few organists in our churches. Maybe you do things differently in the US. In the Catholic Church where I play on Saturday nights for the first mass, traditional music has gone out the window, and most of what is sung is from the "folksy" style of repertoire. The = Anglican services I usually play for (choral evensong) are from the Book of Common prayer, with traditional hymns, sung responses, and pointed psalm and canticles. I understand these very well. I am asked to play because their usual organists cannot handle the pointing of the psalms and canticles.I cannot see what I would have gained by going through all the rigmarole = that you list there, and some of the churches in this place would be the worse off iof I had considered the procedure to be necessary. Come back to = earth, Bud. By the way I am 81 years old but don't let that fool you. I have played = for services since I was 10 years old, more than 70 years now. Bob Elms.   ----- Original Message ----- From: <quilisma@cox.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:10 AM Subject: should the organist be a member of the denomination?     > Um, there's a non-religious point to that, I think. Was it on here that > we had the discussion about HOW one learns the classical Anglican > tradition? > > MY conclusion is, British or American, you have to grow UP in it. There > IS no place to learn it, aside from serving at the altar and coming up > through the ranks of the choir. It isn't TAUGHT *anywhere*, to speak of. > > As I mentioned, even Gerre Hancock went to England and APPRENTICED > himself to David Willcocks when Gerre was already a prominent church > musician in this country. > > So ... my point is: if the Anglican tradition isn't in your BLOOD, you > won't KNOW that you ONLY sing "O Come, O Come, Emmanuel" on Advent IV, > or WHY; > > you won't KNOW to sing "Alleluia! Song of Gladness" on the Last Sunday > After Epiphany, or WHY; > > you won't KNOW to hunt down an older colleague who kept all the Burgess > Liturgical Choir Books, or WHY they're worth their weight in GOLD when > prepared the Holy Week Rites; > > you won't KNOW that you can buy virtually ALL of the standard Anglican > anthem repertoire in a handful of volumes from Oxford and Novello; > > you won't KNOW the rota of hymns and anthems that go with the Gospel for > the Day ... > > And it goes on, and on, and on, and ON ... > > I KNOW; people are pushing me to write it all down in a book, and I'm > saying, "um, I'm 60 years old; I HOPE I DON'T live to be a hundred, > 'cause that's how long it would TAKE." > > Roman Catholics are particularly impoverished if their musicians are > non-Catholics who don't know what came BEFORE Vatican II, and how to > utilize THAT music in the CONTEXT of Vatican II, which the CONCILIAR > documents COMMAND you to do, all opinions to the contrary > notwithstanding. I've read them in the original Latin; I KNOW what they > say (grin). > > I don't LIKE the Novus Ordo, but it didn't spring full-blown from the > forehead of Paul VI; it's the latest incarnation of a tradition that is > TWO THOUSAND YEARS OLD, and the Council never INTENDED the kind of > wholesale liturgical and musical massacre that has taken place in the > American RC Church since Advent Sunday of 1964, when English was first > introduced. > > But if you haven't STUDIED it in depth, you have no way of KNOWING that. > > I've had to LEARN the Missouri Synod Lutheran tradition from my friend, > in order to be able to even WRITE liturgical music for them. For > instance, they WILL sing certain chorales on Good Friday, WHATEVER the > service is ... so I had to incorporate them into my setting of Tenebrae. > > Now ... if one knows the RC, Anglican, OR Lutheran traditions, it IS > possible to move around within THAT orbit ... I have for years and years > and YEARS (grin). > > But I had to learn the RC tradition from scratch, and I did it by > singing in my theory professor's men's choir BEFORE Vatican II, and by > reading everything I could get my hands on in English AND Latin. > > The AGO Code isn't quite about that ... unless I'm mistaken, it means > the GUILD will not discriminate on the basis of religious affiliation, > etc. The Guild may refuse to advertise posts for a VARIETY of reasons: > > Locally, I think our chapter won't post anything that pays less than > $5200 per annum for one service and one rehearsal, organist only, and > THAT'S *pathetic* (grin). > > I imagine they would also refuse an ad for "married white heterosexual > (insert name of political party) male," or something equally idiotic, > but the CHURCHES are free to discriminate as they will, and DO. > > Wasn't there a post in the Diapason recently that required one to be a > "Bible-believing Christian" and sign some kind of "biblical morality oath?" > > > Cheers, > > > Bud > > > T.Desiree' Hines wrote: > > > Yep lol > > I remember one church who said they'd prefer a practicing Mo Syn Lute. > > And some Catholic jobs on NPM Site only want practicing Catholics. Do > > they know the AGO code? > > > > > > > > > > > > From Desiree' > > T. Desiree' Hines > > Chicago, IL 60649 > > http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html > > > > = ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail > > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailtag_us/*http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools> > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: should the organist be a member of the denomination? From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:05:10 -0800       bobelms wrote:   > Well Bud, I play in Uniting (ex-Methodist) Churches, an RC Church, and = an > Anglican Church when needed, and what you are saying does not make much > sense to me.   (BIG snip) I > cannot see what I would have gained by going through all the rigmarole = that > you list there, and some of the churches in this place would be the = worse > off iof I had considered the procedure to be necessary. Come back to = earth, > Bud. > By the way I am 81 years old but don't let that fool you. I have played = for > services since I was 10 years old, more than 70 years now. > Bob Elms. >   Bob, you and I have butted heads about this on more than one occasion.   You seemingly refuse to acknowledge that there exists (in America, at least), that rara avis, the PROFESSIONAL, FULL-TIME Anglican choirmaster and organist who makes his LIVING doing church music, and as such, is expected to have professional TRAINING, and, in return, RIGHTLY expects the church to provide not only a LIVING, but health benefits (we have no national health care in the US), pension, music allowance, paid vacation, and continuing education funds.   I am one such "queer bird" (chuckle), and the process I described WAS necessary. But moreover, by an large it was intellectual curiosity that led me to do it. Nobody paid me to, though I WOULD say that it was the entree to better jobs BECAUSE I set myself the task of doing it.   I have nothing against amateur church musicians; however, I am NOT an amateur, and there are different expectations on BOTH sides of the desk.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: : chicago style...off topic Mo Syn's From: "Dennis Goward" <dlgoward@cox.net> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:57:13 -0700   I can say one thing that brings us back to topic. Some Mo Syn Lutherans usually have problems with hiring church musicians that are not Mo Syn Lutes.   Well, not out here in the west . . . I was hired as an LCMS Music Minister while a member of a Pentecostal church. Now, Wisconsin synod won't even consider you unless you're "one of them", at least in this area.   D          
(back) Subject: RE: chicago style From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:02:45 -0600   My Methodist friend reminds that the Episcopalians (of which I am one) worship good taste.     Glenda Sutton   gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Will Light Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 2:57 PM To: 'PipeChat' Subject: RE: chicago style     OI! No you can't! We have a catechism - very like an Anglican one!     Will Light Coventry UK   From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Keys4bach@aol.com be a methodist--you can believe anything you want.   dale in Florida      
(back) Subject: Re: Chicago-style folk liturgy From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:25:36 -0500   On 3/1/04 11:40 AM, "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> wrote:   > Is this akin to the "Chicago Style Hot Dog" which is an acquired taste.. > Fair question. I don't know. Is it kosher?   Alan, who'd be interested in a "description"    
(back) Subject: Re: Chicago style and changes in Missouri From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:31:46 -0500   On 3/1/04 1:55 PM, "Keys4bach@aol.com" <Keys4bach@aol.com> wrote:   > actually, the Indiana conservatives have taken over LCMS and kicked out t= he > remaining St Louis conservatives----have you seen the stuff from CPH? >=20 > =A7=A7=A7 Oy. Believable; but I didn=B9t KNOW. Are you suggesting that the =B3St= .. > Louis conservatives=B2 are not conservative enough for them? (I can believ= e > that too, but with some chagrin!) >=20 > it is more conservative now than in the last 5 years....... >=20 > =A7=A7=A7 Yes; that I can believe. And more so than in THIRTY years, as I sai= d in > another post. =20 >=20 > be a methodist--you can believe anything you want. >=20 > =A7=A7=A7 Well, actually, I can, anyway. But I=B9m not going to go to THAT extr= eme! >=20 > Alan >=20 >=20      
(back) Subject: Re: should the organist be a member of the denomination? From: "Mura Kievman" <mura@speakeasy.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:36:02 -0500   At 08:05 PM 3/1/2004, Bud wrote:   >Bob, you and I have butted heads about this on more than one >occasion. [BIG SNIP] > >I have nothing against amateur church musicians; however, I am NOT an >amateur, and there are different expectations on BOTH sides of the desk.     As a professional SINGER I have to agree with Bud. I was trained to sing and while I've known many excellent amateur singers, they don't hold a candle to a real pro. It's not just the technique, but the knowledge of music history, harmony, counterpart, and all that other "unnecessary" stuff. I also have known professional singers who were NOT as good as = some amateurs, but that is generally not the case.   If a church can find a professional singer who is willing to donate = his/her services, more power to the church. But those of us who seek to earn our living this way DO need to be paid. At least something. And we are = always paid less than the organists. (I am not complaining about that! The organist does a lot more during the service than we do.)   As a singer, I don't expect a pension or other retirement benefits, just a =   decent salary. And I've been known to donate my services when it's a = cause dear to my heart. But I have bills to pay as well.   The subject line was "should the organist be a member", and from my side = of the question the answer is a hearty no. Speaking strictly of singers, = I've known Jewish singers singing in church choirs and Christian singers = singing in temple choirs. Should either be banned? I personally think NOT. The singers who were not members of the church or temple were always eminently =   respectful of the organization.   A few years ago a conservative temple in NYC fired all of the "goyim". Suddenly and abruptly. A Christian singer at Temple Emanu-El commented that had it been a Christian church that had fired a Jew, it would have made headlines at the NY Times. But somehow the reverse didn't =   happen ... it was okay for the temple to fire the Christians.   I myself have a Jewish father and a Lutheran mother so I have always said that if a temple wants only Jews, or a church wants only Christians, I'll promise to sing only half the notes.   Mura      
(back) Subject: Re: Chicago-style From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:01:14 -0600   At 07:25 PM 3/1/04, you wrote:   >On 3/1/04 11:40 AM, "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> wrote: > > > Is this akin to the "Chicago Style Hot Dog" which is an acquired = taste.. > > >Fair question. I don't know. Is it kosher? > >Alan, who'd be interested in a "description"   You start with a standard dog and bun...paint it with mustard, layer on = the chopped onions, relish, tomato slices the length of the dog & bun, add a dill pickle slice and sprinkle on some celery salt...the brave folk add = hot peppers to spice it up.... NEVER put on ketchup...that violates all kinds of laws and 2 or 3 city ordinances. Save the ketchup for the fries. I know =   of a least one Chicago millionaire who started with a hot dog cart.   jch    
(back) Subject: Allentown Recital on Friday From: "Stephen Williams" <stepwill@enter.net> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:01:28 -0500   Dear Listers - Erik Wm. Suter will be playing a concert at St. John's = Ev. Lutheran Church in downtown Allentown, PA on Friday, March 5 at = 7:30 p.m. Erik is Organist and Associate Choirmaster at Washington = National Cathedral. His background includes study at the venerable = Oberlin and Yale, notable competition winnings, and lots of = concertizing. If your interests include organ recordings, you'll know = that he has some outstanding CDs on the market under the JAV, Gothic, = and Pro Organo labels.   His program will include the Elgar Imperial March (Martin arr.), Franck = Piece Heroique, Howells Master Tallis's Testament, Eben Finale from = Sunday Music, Bach P & F in C (547), Sweelinck Mein junges, and Reger = Wachet auf. The IV/87 Reuter is sounding pretty good these days, and I'm = sure we'll all have a great time. Come if you can!   Stephen Williams Organist, St. John's Ev. Lutheran, Allentown PA College Organist, Muhlenberg College  
(back) Subject: RE: chicago style...off topic Mo Syn's From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:11:30 -0600   Jim, but you DO. I was playing there on Saturday nights for a couple of weeks there. Wes wanted me regularly, but I couldn't commit to it. Too much going on in my home congregation, and now Holy Trinity has a Saturday night service, which pretty much just limits me to there.   How's progress on getting the Kilgen rebuilt? It NEEDS it.   Jeff -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of James Grebe Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 4:27 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: chicago style...off topic Mo Syn's     I have not found that to be the case though we do not hire outside musicians other than volunteers James Grebe    
(back) Subject: Lutheran churchmanship in San Diego! From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:17:58 -0500   I knew a parish just like that (ELCA) in Whitewater, Wisconsin, c. 1960. Just unBELIEVable! Right out of that town in Scotland that comes back to life for one day every hundred years. Can't remember the name. Not G=F6tterd=E4mmerung, but a name like that.   What fantastic way to BE church.   Alan     On 3/1/04 2:01 PM, "quilisma@cox.net" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote:   > I forgot to mention that the same church (I think) still doesn't allow > women to vote in Voters' Assembly, but the women COME to Voters' > Assembly and sit with their husbands and give them a sharp elbow in the > ribs if they even TRY to vote the way they think they shouldn't (chuckle)= .. >=20 > Some years ago they suffered a season under an anti-liturgy, anti-music > pastor (who has since left the ministry) ... they tried to reason with > him; finally, Voters' Assembly rose up (led by their HUGE choir) and > tossed him out on his ear (chuckle) ...   There can be no answer to this, but HOW ON EARTH did they get stuck with a guy like THAT?   > this is a congregation where the old folks STILL come on Saturday and dec= lare > their intention to Pastor that they're going to receive Holy Communion on > Sunday ...=20   Yes, and they are subject to "examination" as to their fitness TOO! It's not JUST a perfunctory "announcement."   > they're TERMINALLY traditional AND high-church as far as liturgy and musi= c is > concerned ... those of you who are on my music download list saw the ENOR= MOUS > Good Friday Tenebrae service I wrote for them on commission. >=20 > Now that their calling procedure is somewhat more organized (parish > profile, etc.), at the TOP of their Call Sheet is "DON'T MESS WITH THE > MUSIC!" (grin) ... they're WONDERFUL people ... my friend has been there > for 28 years, since he was sixteen, and they're devoted to him.   What a shame that I left San Diego TWENTY years before he arrived. Life is full of geschm=FCtztete schedules!   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Re: Allen Organ Model 314 From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:24:58 -0500   Dear Milo, If you tell me what it is doing (or not doing) I might be able to = help you having had two analog Allens a Custom Carousel and a Custom IV church organ. I maintained both. The Custom IV was identical to the 314 except = you have three manuals and your tone generators are within the console. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Milo R.Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 7:01 PM Subject: Re: Re: Allen Organ Model 314     > well it hasn't been well taken care of over the years and having just moved in, want to do what I can to keep it going and if possible improve = the sound some. I have a feeling that some of the tubes are burned out and = need to be replaced and having any info would be good. Thanks for the info = Paul. > > Milo > > > > From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> > > Date: 2004/03/01 Mon PM 05:42:08 EST > > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > > Subject: Re: Allen Organ Model 314 > > > > dear Milo, > > I'm sure that you can buy the entire analog service manual from Allen > > organ for around $50. bucks. It was around that price about ten years ago. > > It covers all analog organs made by Allen including the tube type. What's > > wrong with yours. > > Paul > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Milo R.Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net> > > To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> > > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 2:40 PM > > Subject: Allen Organ Model 314 > > > > > > > I am trying to locate manuals for the Allen Organ Model 314. Is = there > > anyone out there that might have owner or technical manuals for it? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related = topics > > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: RE: Lutheran churchmanship in San Diego! From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:35:00 -0600   >Life is full of geschm=FCtztete schedules!   Alan? This would be what?    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen Organ Model 314 From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:42:07 -0800   From some experiences here locally, it may be a lost cause ... there are about a zillion solder points and capacitors that can go bad., not just tubes and easily replaceable things. Of course it can be DONE, and Allen still SUPPORTS them; the question is whether it's worth the time, effort and money.   Cheers,   Bud   Paul Valtos wrote:   > Dear Milo, > If you tell me what it is doing (or not doing) I might be able to = help > you having had two analog Allens a Custom Carousel and a Custom IV = church > organ. I maintained both. The Custom IV was identical to the 314 except = you > have three manuals and your tone generators are within the console. > Paul > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Milo R.Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net> > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 7:01 PM > Subject: Re: Re: Allen Organ Model 314 > > > >>well it hasn't been well taken care of over the years and having just > > moved in, want to do what I can to keep it going and if possible improve = the > sound some. I have a feeling that some of the tubes are burned out and = need > to be replaced and having any info would be good. Thanks for the info = Paul. > >>Milo >> >>>From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> >>>Date: 2004/03/01 Mon PM 05:42:08 EST >>>To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >>>Subject: Re: Allen Organ Model 314 >>> >>>dear Milo, >>> I'm sure that you can buy the entire analog service manual from > > Allen > >>>organ for around $50. bucks. It was around that price about ten years > > ago. > >>>It covers all analog organs made by Allen including the tube type. > > What's > >>>wrong with yours. >>> Paul >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Milo R.Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net> >>>To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> >>>Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 2:40 PM >>>Subject: Allen Organ Model 314 >>> >>> >>> >>>>I am trying to locate manuals for the Allen Organ Model 314. Is there >>> >>>anyone out there that might have owner or technical manuals for it? >>> >>>>Thanks >>>> >>>>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>>>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>>>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>>>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>>>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >>> >>> >>> >> >>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> >> > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: chicago style...off topic Mo Syn's From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:33:34 -0500   On 3/1/04 3:08 PM, "RMB10@aol.com" <RMB10@aol.com> wrote:   >> >Im not trying to be funny, but I guess a Mo Syn Liberal would be like >> Cooperative or >American Baptists...part of the name indicates one thing= , but >> their worship and views are >very liberal, i.e. Same Sex couples. >=20 > I think a liberal Missouri Synod Lutheran is probably more akin to a mode= rate > ELCA'er, sort of more like a moderate-liberal Southern Baptist, of which = there > are some--the FBC in my town is aligned with both the SBC and the > Cooperatives. >=20   Monty, I think you=B9re right. Hard to compare these things, but you=B9re doin= g fine.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Lutheran Parishes (Off-topic response) From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:44:32 -0500   On 3/1/04 3:33 PM, "ContraReed@aol.com" <ContraReed@aol.com> wrote:   > I'm sure other folk on this list have dealt with this before. What are = your > thoughts on this?   With that problem a dozen or so years ago, we rented an electronic and put it in the gallery (as the old Moller was being pulled out and replaced = with the new tracker from Walcker). It worked.   No interim arrangement (piano, Hammond, synth) will be happy for ANYBODY.   Don't worry about it. Take a vote and go with it. Everybody will be thrilled with the final result, which is all that counts.   Alan www.stlukesnyc.org    
(back) Subject: Re: chicago style From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:50:34 -0500   On 3/1/04 3:40 PM, "quilisma@cox.net" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote:   > CAN they decide that by parish or district? It may have changed more = recently, > but I DEFINITELY remember that women still couldn't vote when they fired = that > pastor, and that was LESS than 20 years ago.   Oh, sure, they can decide by parish--at least in the direction of greater narrowness; maybe not the other way. That is, if Mother Synod says NO, = you can't say "yes," very conveniently. But if MS says OK, you can choose NOT to exercise such laxity! I think, anyway.   Alan    
(back) Subject: RE: chicago style From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:58:06 -0500   > My Methodist friend reminds that the Episcopalians (of which I am = one) worship good taste.     And one suspects that some Irish Roman Catholics worship bad taste = because good taste is English. The American RC hierarchy has long been = basically Irish, despite the number of German, Italian, and Polish = Catholics in the U.S. They also, I'm told, have a tradition of not = singing in church because their services had to be in secret, as well as = a tradition of women more than ben being in church because the men once = kept watch at the doorways and outside. This is part of "Why Catholics = Can't Sing."