PipeChat Digest #4322 - Tuesday, March 2, 2004
 
Re: Methodists
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Lutheran churchmanship in San Diego!
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: "Pulling Out all the Stops" (was ending NU organ degree   program)(no
  by "Jon Kroepel" <kroepel@uiuc.edu>
showing my ignorance
  by "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net>
Re: showing my ignorance
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: showing my ignorance
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Lutheran Parishes (Off-topic response)
  by <ContraReed@aol.com>
Re: showing my ignorance
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: St. Mark's in Grand Rapids
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
Re: Allen Organ Model 314
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Re: Convergent worship
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: what to do while the pipe organ's being repaired
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4316 - 03/01/04
  by "keyplayr" <keyplayr@telus.net>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04
  by "keyplayr" <keyplayr@telus.net>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04
  by "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Methodists From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:00:53 -0600     ----- Original Message ----- From: <quilisma@cox.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 3:28 PM Subject: Methodists     > Um, Will, I doubt seriously that American Methodists would recognize > their British cousins, and vice versa. American Methodism bears little > resemblance to its British counterpart.   All I know is that I was at school with John Wesley, great grandson of Samuel Sebastian Wesley, and that he was, like John & Charles Wesley and = all the other Wesleys (except Samuel who was a Roman Catholic) Church of England.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: Lutheran churchmanship in San Diego! From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:26:12 -0500   On 3/1/04 9:35 PM, "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> wrote:   > > Alan? This would be what? > Oh, I thought it was LCMS for "screwed up." (I invented it.) It's a past participle, of course.   Alan, fluent auf doitsh    
(back) Subject: Re: "Pulling Out all the Stops" (was ending NU organ degree program)(now x-posted) From: "Jon Kroepel" <kroepel@uiuc.edu> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:50:06 -0600   I think that PLU's organ department is in very good hands with Paul = Tegels, an person whom I have known for the past 4 years.=20     Jonathan Kroepel University of Illinois MM Student in Organ Performance Organist/Choir Director St. Andrew Lutheran Church and Lutheran Center ----- Original Message -----=20 From: T.Desiree' Hines=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:57 PM Subject: Re: "Pulling Out all the Stops" (was ending NU organ degree = program)(now x-posted)     Yes Jon, you make some very good points, and thank you for subtle and = tasteful agreement.=20   Yes, I am very opinionated as to organ programs. After all, Its my = money that aI will be spending to get an eudcation. And its just a fact: = A lot of schools are hiring organ teachers who lack pedogical skills. = There is the old fashioned, natrual-borned abilty to teach organ = perfromance that is null and void in so many younger teachers. I have = never had a lesson with anyone from NU, so I can't comment on a teacher = from MY POINT OF VIEW. When I have a lesson or masterclass with one of = them, that's when I can say one thing or another. However, I have had = masterclasses with lots of people, and I can tell you which schools have = very, very good organ teachers. Or at least ones that I feel comfortable = with. Thats what it all boils down to: who is on the same wavelength as = you are as a student. For example, some people may think that Paul = Jacobs is too young to chair the organ dept at Juilliard. I think that = Paul is a great guy, a fantabulous performer, and very patient. I! think = that his personality and calm nature will be attractive to students who = want a sweet-natured teacher. =20   Another fine teacher that may be lesser known in Kraig Scott from = Walla Walla College and Whithworth College in central Washington, about = 5 hours from Seattle. Kraig is truly someone that belongs at the head of = a prestigious program. His playing is out of this world. He for example = plays the big Hakim Pentacost piece Episodes on the Tongues of Fire = (title is not verbatim). In the same program he did the E flat Saint = Anne wit h a drive that only is felt when you are in a Farrari. And he = did the Sweelinck Chromatic Fantasy, and tons other stuff. Left the = organ without a drop of sweat off his brow. That indicated to me his = technical dexterity. He played a one hour recital with such forward = motion that we felt like we were only there for about 45 minutes. And = don't even get me started with his teaching. Kraig can teach anyone how = to play and does it well. I had a masterclass with him when working on = the Bach "Great" G Major. He's so interractive. For example, he was pa! = tting me on my back as I played to get a different feel of the piece. He = took a pencil and marked happy faces in my score. His point here was = this: "What other pieces by Bach are in G?" I said the Piece D'orgue, = and the other G major P and F and the Preludium. He asked "Whats the = mood of G?" I said "Happy". His attitude during that one lesson with me = was energizing, and gave me a total fresh look on things.=20   Another fine teacher is Stephen Roberts at Western CT State, who I = know personally. As well as George Ritchie, Ann Labounksy at Duquesne, = and Diane Belcher at Westminster. Faythe Freese is another. There are = quite a few. Jeff McLelland who is Region 4 Councellor for AGO is a = great teacher as well, but only does so privately in his home studio in = Birmingham, AL. And the many in the organ world still weeps at the loss = of our beloved James Dale Holloway. There is no telling where Pacific = Lutheran U would be if he were still alive. Jim coached me on the Suite = Gothique and I took a new approach to its registration.   When I look for a teacher, I look at his/her credentials, repertoire, = and experience. If there are one too many competitions, that turns me = off. If they are "suitcase professors", how many lessons will we miss? = l like to listen to them play a few pieces. I like to listen to their = Church Musicianship...how they are with hymns, service music, etc. I = like to have a lesson with them to see if I am getting anything out of = the lessons? Is my money being spent well? These things go into account = with all of us when looking at programs for study, even at great = schools.   As for the program at NU, it seems like the community is getting = people to look at things and other solutions. As Jon states here. there = must be problems in the program. And yes, I will say again, while I = don't know first hand what they are, and while I personally have had no = interraction with NU and the Organ/CM dept, realiable sources do say = that things need a looking at. I can't say that from me because I have = not heard any NU students yet. But, yes, fixing problems is better than = putting an end to them.=20       From Desiree'=20 T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html=20     -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail  
(back) Subject: showing my ignorance From: "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:13:35 -0600   OK this is the second time I have heard this term today. "organists cannot handle the pointing of the psalms and canticles" What is pointing? Thanks, Amy trying really hard to stay out of the Lutheran conservative vs liberal discussion! Glad to find out why her RC husband can't sing in church.    
(back) Subject: Re: showing my ignorance From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:18:56 EST   In a message dated 3/1/04 10:14:21 PM Central Standard Time, docamy@alltel.net writes:   > OK this is the second time I have heard this term today. > "organists cannot handle the pointing of the psalms and canticles" > What is pointing?   Pointing, which generally refers to Anglican Chant, means the marking of = the scores to indicate phrasing, syllabalization and where the pitch moves = within the text. Pointing it is a series or markings, a road map if you will, to =   tell the singers how to sing a particular Psalm. Hope this helps.   Scott F. Foppiano Cantantibus organis Caecilia Domino decantabat.    
(back) Subject: Re: showing my ignorance From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:33:50 -0800   Anglican Chants aren't written out in full ... the tune, consisting of   Reciting note / 3-note . me -di - / ation // Reciting note / 5-note / CA - / dence   is printed above the words in 4-harmony; the words are then marked up to (theoretically) correspond with the tune, above, something like this:   O come, let us sing / un-to . the / Lord; // Let us heartily rejoice in the strength of / our sal - / VA- / tion.   Let us come before his presence with / THANKS - / giv-ing; // And show ourselves / glad in / him with / psalms. //   It's a HIDEOUS way to do things (grin), but those of us who grew up in the Anglican Church imbibed it with our mother's milk (I wrote the above from memory), and are wont to chant the weather report, etc. at parties after a couple of drinks (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   Dr. Amy Fleming wrote:   > OK this is the second time I have heard this term today. > "organists cannot handle the pointing of the psalms and canticles" > What is pointing? > Thanks, Amy > trying really hard to stay out of the Lutheran conservative vs liberal > discussion! > Glad to find out why her RC husband can't sing in church. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Lutheran Parishes (Off-topic response) From: <ContraReed@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:25:48 EST   In a message dated 3/1/04 3:36:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, ContraReed@aol.com writes:   << = SW4gYSBtZXNzYWdlIGRhdGVkIDMvMS8yMDA0IDE6NDQ6NDQgUE0gRWFzdGVybiBTdGFuZGFy ZCBUaW1lLCBxdWlsaXNtYUBjb3gubmV0IHdyaXRlczoKCj4gSSdNIGN1cmlvdXMgLi4uIHN5 bm9kLXN3aXRjaGluZyBie (snip)>>   OK, I know that my post about Lutheran congregations & what to do while = the organ is out of the building reached the list because I've seen some great =   answers to my question. BUT, when I opened the message, I was shocked to = see lots of the above alpha-numeric gibberish. Does anyone have any idea why it = came through like that?   Thanx for all the responses.   Richard  
(back) Subject: Re: showing my ignorance From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:15:37 +0800   Anglicans drink? Shocking! :-)   ----- Original Message ----- From: quilisma@cox.net Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:33:50 -0800 To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Re: showing my ignorance   >...and are wont to chant the weather report, etc. at parties after a = couple of drinks (grin). > > Cheers, > > Bud   -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: St. Mark's in Grand Rapids From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:22:03 -0800   I played the Bedient while on vacation a few years ago....   If you wanna play French Baroque stuff, it has no equal this side of the pond ... the sounds are VERY authentic   EYE happen to not really have developed much of a taste for that stuff, although I've tried. I managed to grow = into the sounds of a LOT of composers and eras, but.... I'm almost 40, and I = have YET to really enjoy it, so I doubt there's much hope <chuckle>   Having said that, I _can_ objectively admit it does well at what it was desighned for. Call me a Philistine, but I _STILL_ marvel that someone would choose to = put such a beast in an Episcopal church.... they were forced to keep using the old Austin, as the Bedient was not suited to the Anglican repertoire.   NOW   Before someone goes and pipes up "you can make ANYthing work if you just try"   Yup. You can. But WHY would you WANT to? Why install an ex$pensive copy = of an old French organ in an Episcopal church when your service-playing instrument is in dire need of refurbishment or replacement? If you have a superb existing organ for service-playing already, sure, mebbe so, but...   They say time usually shows us the wisdom of our decisions.... I'm both disgruntled and pleased that time has shown the need to remove this instrument to another (academic!) venue. Disgruntled that the money was wasted in the first place, glad that the matter has been righted and that the instrument will be in a = venue where it can be put to good use (and APPROPRIATE use at that)   Best,   Jonathan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Kay Strouf" <strouf@hope.edu> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:00 PM Subject: St. Mark's in Grand Rapids     > St. Mark's never got rid of their big Austin when the got the Bedient. = I > remember hearing the Bedient soon after it was put in (I live in = Holland, MI) > and wondered how the heck you would accompany a congregation with that tuning. > They didn't....most of the time they continued to use the Austin for service > music and played the Bedient for voluntaries. Since the Austin was = (still is > I think, but I'm not 100% sure) up front and the Bedient was in the gallery it > must have made for interesting treks up and down the stairs.    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen Organ Model 314 From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 00:36:58 -0500   Dear Bud, Well the organ I had Bud, a Custom IV had a zillion capacitors and transistors but very few had to be replaced and that organ was built in 1970. The Custom Carousel had fewer of them but none had to be replaced during my ownership. Again that organ was built in 1970, I bought it in = 1983 and according to the Allen Tech, had never been tuned either nor needed = it. I had them do stretch tuning which did make it sound better. Paul   ----- Original Message ----- From: <quilisma@cox.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:42 PM Subject: Re: Allen Organ Model 314     > From some experiences here locally, it may be a lost cause ... there > are about a zillion solder points and capacitors that can go bad., not > just tubes and easily replaceable things. Of course it can be DONE, and > Allen still SUPPORTS them; the question is whether it's worth the time, > effort and money. > > Cheers, > > Bud > > Paul Valtos wrote: > > > Dear Milo, > > If you tell me what it is doing (or not doing) I might be able to help > > you having had two analog Allens a Custom Carousel and a Custom IV church > > organ. I maintained both. The Custom IV was identical to the 314 = except you > > have three manuals and your tone generators are within the console. > > Paul > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Milo R.Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net> > > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 7:01 PM > > Subject: Re: Re: Allen Organ Model 314 > > > > > > > >>well it hasn't been well taken care of over the years and having just > > > > moved in, want to do what I can to keep it going and if possible = improve the > > sound some. I have a feeling that some of the tubes are burned out = and need > > to be replaced and having any info would be good. Thanks for the info Paul. > > > >>Milo > >> > >>>From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> > >>>Date: 2004/03/01 Mon PM 05:42:08 EST > >>>To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > >>>Subject: Re: Allen Organ Model 314 > >>> > >>>dear Milo, > >>> I'm sure that you can buy the entire analog service manual from > > > > Allen > > > >>>organ for around $50. bucks. It was around that price about ten years > > > > ago. > > > >>>It covers all analog organs made by Allen including the tube type. > > > > What's > > > >>>wrong with yours. > >>> Paul > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "Milo R.Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net> > >>>To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> > >>>Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 2:40 PM > >>>Subject: Allen Organ Model 314 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>I am trying to locate manuals for the Allen Organ Model 314. Is = there > >>> > >>>anyone out there that might have owner or technical manuals for it? > >>> > >>>>Thanks > >>>> > >>>>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > >>>>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related = topics > >>>>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > >>>>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > >>>>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > >>>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > >>>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related = topics > >>>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > >>>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > >>>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > >>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > >>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > >>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > >>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >> > >> > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Convergent worship From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:53:44 +0800     And what of the harmonies? The few people that can read music and have = reasonable pitch accuracy can make the hymns that much richer. My church = is going through the "will we/won't we" debate on a projection system.   Arguments for include being able to project budget numbers during = membership meetings. ;-) The strongest arguments for a projector are that we are a un-pack and = pack-it-up church meeting in another church's facility. It takes time and = effort to lay out ~120 bibles and hymnals on the chairs each week, and = even longer to pick them up from the floor and remove the dissected = bulletin innards page markers.   We're already doing a set of 2-3 (doctrinally sound) contemporary praise = songs each week along with the three hymns and Doxology.   Funny, but the strongest arguments against the Jubmotron(r) are coming = from the high-schoolers ... ours want to do Psalms a capella.   > Why, for the love of Pete, DIMINISH their exposure to the specifically > MUSICAL aspects of what we do on Sunday morning? Deliberately! > > I=B9m almost tempted to suggest getting rid of that =B3video screen = intact=B2 (or > getting it to show at least the melody line), so people can get = acquainted > with the Church=B9s MUSIC. > > Why not? > > Alan -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: what to do while the pipe organ's being repaired From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:00:02 +0800   I'm working up to this one ... Alhborn, Content/Hammond, Post Organ Toolkit (on the Kurzweil) or = Hauptwork???     ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:19:25 -0600 To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Re: what to do while the pipe organ's being repaired   > One could have install midi contacts in the piano and use shelf mounted = tone > modules. -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4316 - 03/01/04 From: "keyplayr" <keyplayr@telus.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:00:23 -0800   on 04/03/01 8:47, Paul Kealy at kealypaul@mediaexcellence.com wrote:   > Harry, great idea! >=20 > Any other "interpretive" ideas out there? >=20 > I like to go from C to minor key on verse 2 in *When I Survey the Wondrou= s > Cross* ... > (I announce or write in bulletin for people to flat the E,A,B to sing it > "relatively" correct). > People like it as it adds a more sombre significance to interpreting the > text. >=20 > I'm interested to hear what others do to help the organ increase attentio= n > to the text. >=20 > Harry wrote: > Sure, it catches the congregation out the first time you do it; but no-on= e > complains when you're doing something appropriately interpretative - and > they sure don't get caught a second time! >=20 > Paul E. Kealy >=20 >=20 > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >=20 >=20 ERR....... Gemtlemen (& fellow listers):   After 40+ years of serving churches from Roman to Christian Science I have never come across ANY tune for =ABWhen I survey...=BB which was in the key of C= ..   The American-use tune HAMBURG is set in F in at least 15 different hymnals in my collection, and the British / Canadian-use tune ROCKINGHAM is usually set in E-flat or in some more-recent publications in D. Neither would be even =ABgrowlable=BB by most singers if set in C -- and, BTW I am a BASSO and not fond of notes above middle C.   Now as to the major/minor thAng.... The Welsh have major/minor versions of many traditional hymntunes, and it i= s p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e to switch back and forth without causing a whole lot of cacophony (or at least angst!) on the part of most congregations IF they have a few minor-key tunes in their repertoire-- but I would be extremely judicious in my use of such tricks.   While the plodding, pedestrian nature of HAMBURG makes it a candidate for some sort of boredom-relief, the strength, majesty, and word-music synergy of ROCKINGHAM would be totally destroyed by such a manoeuver -- not to mention its more-complex harmonic structure might introduce some difficult-to-guess intervals for the singers.   A good text-tune mating ought not to require =ABspicing-up=BB -- in most cases where this becomes apparent it is due to poor work on the part of hymnal editors, or =ABpoliticking=BB in the case of denominational hymnals of which many horror-stories could be recounted by generations of church musicians upon whom some of this NON-sense continues to be foisted.   IF HAMBURG is the tune you're referring to you'd be better advised to jettison it in favour of a better one (sic.) -- ROCKINGHAM. Of course one is sometimes bound by misplaced =ABtradition=BB on account of which the lazy and/or uninformed refuse to let go of inferior music. In such case perhaps they DESERVE to suffer boredom and what I might infer to be a mild pandemic of A.D.D. ?!?!?!?!   BTW if you want a REALLY grrrrrreeeeat tune for =ABWhen I Survey...=BB which makes a good quick-study ANTHEM try the Welsh tune =ABMorte Criste=BB -- there won't likely be a dry eye in the church and it won't need tarting-up. Then again it's most effective when sung in Welsh! 8-)   Freeman A. Dryden, =ABOrganist, Linguist, and Iconoclast-Extraodinaire=BB Christ Lutheran Church Chilliwack, BC   PS: I joined this list because I am looking for a =ABtastefully-complete=BB used pipe organ for our church. 2- or 3-manual, Romantic or LIGHTLY-screaming Baroque, DIR-EL or EP with at least a few basic playing-aids. Tracker might be possible if it will fit the space available (very shallow / wide / high). I can eMail space and tonal specs minimum/ideal to any listers who may have leads. Thanx.  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04 From: "keyplayr" <keyplayr@telus.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:16:47 -0800   on 04/03/01 8:14, Dennis Goward at dlgoward@cox.net wrote:   >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:02 AM > Subject: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04 >=20 >=20 > PipeChat Digest #4317 - Monday, March 1, 2004 >=20 > Re: PipeChat Digest #4315 - 03/01/04 > by "GARY JENKINS" <gary.jenkins6@verizon.net> >=20 >=20 > Why, oh why, is it necessary to copy the ENTIRE digest into a reply?   BECAUSE MOST eMAIL SOFTWARE OPERATES THAT WAY BY D-E-F-A-U-L-T and cannot b= e =ABtrained=BB to do otherwise. It's a n-u-i-s-a-n-c-e to skim past this unwanted verbiage but it's just as much of a n-u-i-s-a-n-c-e to try to remove it when replying to messages. While I agree with your sentiments, a more-useful place to vent them would be at the websites of the software companies whose droids produce this and hundreds of other user-UNfriendly and user-UNwanted =ABfeatures=BB.   IF organ builders built organs like software companies design software we'd all have to have backward-facing feet, six pairs of hands, and be profoundl= y deaf to perform on their instruments!   Cheers, Keyplayr=20 >=20 > D > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >=20 >=20    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04 From: "Roger Brown" <roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:27:42 +1100   On Tuesday 02 March 2004 17:16, keyplayr wrote: > BECAUSE MOST eMAIL SOFTWARE OPERATES THAT WAY BY D-E-F-A-U-L-T and cannot > be =ABtrained=BB to do otherwise.   That's just plain wrong.   One mail program for Win32 may well operate that way by default but even th= en=20 it only takes a moment to adjust outward messages - and not much longer to= =20 install one of several addons that cure the problem.   It's not the software, it's the user who often can't be bothered taking a=20 moment to help others!   =2D-=20 Roger Brown roger2@rogerbrown.no-ip.org http://rogerbrown.no-ip.org