PipeChat Digest #4327 - Tuesday, March 2, 2004 Minister of Music??Grandiose?? by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Re: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04 by "Shirley" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Singing from a jumbotron by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Re: should the organist be a member of the denomination? by "keyplayr" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: showing my ignorance by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Re: should the organist be a member of the denomination? by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Re: Methodists by "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Bob Elms CD by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <email@example.com> Re: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04 by "Alvin Wen" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Singing from a jumbotron by "Randolph Runyon" <email@example.com> Open house at Fisk in Gloucester by "Mark Nelson" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04 by "keyplayr" <email@example.com> Re: should the organist be a member of the denomination? by <Myosotis51@aol.com> Re: Used Organ Pipes, windchest, and Reservoir on Ebay by "keyplayr" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Used Organ Pipes, windchest, and Reservoir on Ebay by <Myosotis51@aol.com> Beau Surratt by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <email@example.com> Kudos and thanks - re NU, etc. by <MMccal7284@aol.com> Re: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04 by "keyplayr" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: NU etc. by "Octaaf" <email@example.com> Ancient Masters & Meantone organs, was North Texas State? by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Titles, & Belonging by "Charlie Lester" <email@example.com>
(back) Subject: Minister of Music??Grandiose?? From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:19:56 -0600 Hi! I must say that Minister of Music is most certainly NOT a grandiose title. The very title of minister suggests a servant role. My title at my church is Minister of Music and Worship. It has NOTHING to do with being grandiose. I serve this congregation and help to provide meaningful, suitable music for worship and I serve as chair of the worship committee which is responsible for the Sunday liturgies. I am NOT "Master of the Choir" nor am I simply a "Director of Music." Our music program flows out of the life of our church. It is not some program with its own "Director" which is tacked on to church programming as some separate entity. If the title of Minister is grandiose, then so is the title of "Pastor" or "Priest" or anything else, and all of the people who accept those titles are doing what they are doing so that they can have such a title, not so they can serve God or the Church or anything like that. Blessings, Beau Surratt Most High Mistress of Music (now THAT's GRANDIOSE! :) Minister of Music and Worship United Church of Hyde Park, Chicago
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04 From: "Shirley" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:22:59 -0500 On 1 Mar 2004 at 22:16, keyplayr wrote: > BECAUSE MOST eMAIL SOFTWARE OPERATES THAT WAY BY D-E-F-A-U-L-T and > cannot be =ABtrained=BB to do otherwise. ... While > I agree with your sentiments, a more-useful place to vent them would > be at the websites of the software companies whose droids produce this > and hundreds of other user-UNfriendly and user-UNwanted =ABfeatures=BB. Or start using Pegasus, which allows you to highlight a portion and just c= opy that into a reply. http://www.pmail.com. Software's free. -s.
(back) Subject: Singing from a jumbotron From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:25:45 -0500 On 3/2/04 12:53 AM, "Jan Nijhuis" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > Funny, but the strongest arguments against the Jubmotron(r) are coming = from > the high-schoolers ... ours want to do Psalms a capella. How neat! But, weirdly, that's our experience TOO! The YOUNG ones want = to do things the OLD way! (It's part of their rejection of their parents' generation, I guess--and the corresponding high regard for the = grandparents' generation.) Alan
(back) Subject: Re: should the organist be a member of the denomination? From: "keyplayr" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:26:05 -0800 on 04/03/02 4:31, bobelms at firstname.lastname@example.org wrote: > You are doing it again Bud. You don't and so you don't know! > Bob Elms. HEAR here! A second to Bob's reaction! In CANADA we have similar population/attendance rate conditions to yours bu= t I would hardly describe conditions for church musicians here as =ABdeplorable=BB! It has always amazed me that US churches think nothing of spending upwards of $1,000,000 on an organ just so as to be bigger, noisier, glitzier, or more Martha- or Diane-esque than the competing church down the block or across town even though the result is more conspicuous consumption and tota= l overkill than need. A Casavant rep of my acquaintance who had spent a number of years working in the southern US was so sick of this game that when I broached the subject of a Pedal Reed ($$$ and space already assured!= ) for the organ he was rebuilding and enlarging for my church he furiously exploded : =AB...you're just like those $%#"#%"#" Americans you HAVE to have an organ bigger than the NNNNN Church down the block and I WON'T do it!=BB. There is STILL a blank drawknob where I would have put the Pedal Reed! 8-))))) Perhaps he was right??? I have during my 40+ year career as a Church Musician been paid NADA and also have been paid very much better than the =ABsacred=BB AGO scale slavishly invoked by many US churches. Just peruse the AGO Positions Postings for lots of examples of what I wld call =ABdeplorable=BB conditions. 1. Churches whose instruments would insult a rank beginner expecting a =ABMMus. in Performance=BB..... 2. Salaries offered which amount to little more than Minimum Wage.... 3. Ads so poorly-written that one would be driven away by the ignorance displayed therein.... Of course one is on dangerous ground when one GENERALIZES about almost anything, but, BUD, Merci beaucoup! -- we're OK up here -- really we ARE! I grew up in the Atlantic Provinces where virtually every little village ha= d at least one organ jewel -- a fine small 2m Casavant, lovingly maintained and mostly played by volunteers, many of whom were FINE musicians. As a youngster I was introduced to Standard Repertoire by local musicians playin= g on these (=ABtiny=BB by US standards) instruments and it was nothing short of thrilling!!! If the village had a Roman as well as Protestant churches there was quite likely at least one BIG (3man) Casavant and often a highly-accomplished professional musician (in RC churches usually an ordere= d cleric) as Titular! We're not Degree-crazy up here but I'd pit any of our UNdegreed best agains= t any of =AByour=BB parchment-wrapped best any day. I've met not a few of these M.MUS. =ABfactory models=BB. The best of them were impressive but others were quite mediocre and had an alarming narrowness in their professional and general knowledge. If it should ever please you (or other US listmembers) to visit Canada I can introduce you to many thoroughly-professional, happy-in-their-jobs organists, and I think you would be favourably impresse= d with their abilities and what they have accomplished. While for many of them their church job is not their ONLY job, we, as music consumers, are th= e better for it for they are out in the hostile broader world as missionaries for our first-love!!!
(back) Subject: Re: showing my ignorance From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:30:28 -0500 On 3/2/04 3:33 AM, "Will Light" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > I will try and dig it out and post it to the group - Oh, I'd LOVE to see that. We Lutherans chant the psalms and canticles = from pointed text as well. As Bud said, "from mother's milk." There are = little variants on how it's done (typographically), but it's all quite intuitive. Alan
(back) Subject: Re: should the organist be a member of the denomination? From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:36:03 -0500 At 11:06 PM 2004-03-02 +0800, you wrote: >But surely Arie this is no argument against a non member playing the = organ >in a church of a denomination not his own. I should say your argument = would >also apply to a member of the Church who used the position for the same >purpose as you describe. I certainly do not play in churches of >denominations not my own with the attitude you describe. >Your argument defeats itself on those grounds. >Bob Elms. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com> > >> All aspects of worship should be pointing the same direction, to God, = to > > the glory of God. If a musician, church organist, cantor, choral >director, > > is just there because it is a job, for extra pocket money, for self > > gratification, for self glorification, they are in the wrong place in = a > > church. The church should not be a haven for the otherwise = unemployable > > church musician, no matter how good or professional he or she may be. Bob, As long as your conscience or belief is not compromised by what you are doing. It is the best scenario if the organist has a vested interest in the congregation's welfare, is part of the congregational life etc. What is most appalling in my view is the fact that so many organists, = music directors is churches do not subscribe to any kind of statement of faith. The only thing they like is church music, and the church is an outlet for them to perform it, and for them to make some money. Why = should pagans, agnostics, atheists, have any part in church life or functions, as = it automatically makes either them or the church a bunch of obvious = hypocrites. Let these people ply their trade somewhere else. Problem is sacred music positions are seldom found outside the church. Arie V. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arie Vandenberg Classic Organbuilders ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com Tel.: 905-475-1263
(back) Subject: Re: Methodists From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:34:27 -0500 On 3/2/04 6:57 AM, "James Grebe" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > Are we meaning "United Methodists" when we are saying "Methodists" Oh, I surely think so. Alan
(back) Subject: Bob Elms CD From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:47:44 -0600 So, Bob, how can we get copies of your CD's of hymn accompaniment? Dennis Steckley Every gun that is made and every warship that is launched, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed--Dwight Eisenhower
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04 From: "Alvin Wen" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:46:20 -0500 At 10:22 AM 3/2/2004, Shirley wrote: >On 1 Mar 2004 at 22:16, keyplayr wrote: > > BECAUSE MOST eMAIL SOFTWARE OPERATES THAT WAY BY D-E-F-A-U-L-T and > > cannot be =ABtrained=BB to do otherwise. ... While > > I agree with your sentiments, a more-useful place to vent them would > > be at the websites of the software companies whose droids produce this > > and hundreds of other user-UNfriendly and user-UNwanted =ABfeatures=BB. > >Or start using Pegasus, which allows you to highlight a portion and just=20 >copy that >into a reply. > >http://www.pmail.com. Software's free. Eudora (http://www.eudora.com) also has this feature. -Alvin
(back) Subject: Re: Singing from a jumbotron From: "Randolph Runyon" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:47:42 -0500 on 3/2/04 10:25 AM, Alan Freed at firstname.lastname@example.org wrote: > On 3/2/04 12:53 AM, "Jan Nijhuis" <email@example.com> wrote: > >> Funny, but the strongest arguments against the Jubmotron(r) are coming = from >> the high-schoolers ... ours want to do Psalms a capella. > > How neat! But, weirdly, that's our experience TOO! The YOUNG ones want = to > do things the OLD way! (It's part of their rejection of their parents' > generation, I guess--and the corresponding high regard for the = grandparents' > generation.) > > Alan > > > Why do people want those things anyway? If they are for singing repetitive-ad-nauseam praise hymns that are not in the hymnals or for some reason cannot be put into the bulletins, I can understand, but if it = simply another way of reproducing the very same music that is in their hymnals or could be reproduced in their bulletins, that what is the point? Is it, perhaps unconsciously, to cater to middle-aged baby boomers who need = reading glasses but are too vain or lazy to put them on? Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio firstname.lastname@example.org
(back) Subject: Open house at Fisk in Gloucester From: "Mark Nelson" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:01:35 -0500 For anyone in the area, we are hosting an open house for a 2 manual organ for Christ Episcopal Church, Roanoke VA, on Saturday 13 March 2004 from = 2-6 in the afternoon. More details on our website! Mark Nelson C. B. Fisk, Inc. www . cbfisk . com
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04 From: "keyplayr" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:00:25 -0800 on 04/03/01 22:50, Jan Nijhuis at email@example.com wrote: > Would that be software-and-woodworking companies like Johannus/Makin, All= en, > Rodgers, Walker, Content, Cantor, Eminent, Alhborn, Hoffrichter, &c.??? >=20 >>=20 >> IF organ builders built organs like software companies design software w= e'd >> all have to have backward-facing feet, six pairs of hands, and be profou= ndly >> deaf to perform on their instruments! >>=20 >> Cheers, >> Keyplayr=20 NO, Jan, I was referring to MicroSoft and other self-appointed guardians of Ofice Efficiency and (via Spell Checkers) Cultural Purity! 8-)))))))) I have played many of the above Digital Devices, actually, with a modicum of satisfaction where they were PROPERLY INSTALLED. The Rogers I currently play has speakers in the console which cannot be silenced and are slowly destroying my hearing as well as alienating the Choir Director since I can'= t hear what's happening in accompanied anthems! I suffer this torture as I prepare the congregation for a REAL organ. If we make <improvements> to th= e current (outdated and wearing-out) instrument it would be counter-productiv= e to replacing it with a real organ which is my ultimate goal. (See previous msgs re looking for a suitable used pipe organ!) IF we are forced to install a Digital Device instead of a real organ my choice (cost not a factor!) would be Walker. Realistically, we'd probably end up with a MAKIN which, amongst the production models I've played has th= e most pleasing =ABEnglish=BB sound which is what I need for most of the repertoire I like/need to play.=20
(back) Subject: Re: should the organist be a member of the denomination? From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:05:34 EST Hello ArieV@ClassicOrgan.com, In reference to your comment: If a church is a group of people, who are by extension part of the family of God, certainly the organist should be part of the family, and as such = be a member of the denomination, or congregation. I don't usually speak up on issues such as this, but this time I *am* = going to make an exception. I have been a church organist for many years, and for many different denominations. The one time I did join the congregation for which I was playing, when my contract was not renewed because of illness, I felt that I was "fired" by = MY minister. I was abruptly without a job AND a church, and at a time when = doctors had given me a 50/50 chance of survival. But, I am certainly worshipping God and Jesus every Sunday, even though I = am a United Methodist on the organ bench at an AME Zion church. I am the = only white person in the church every Sunday - so they feed me soul food, and I = bring white bread to the church suppers, and we laugh about it. And, over the = past few years, I've learned the AME Zion repetoire of Gospel hymns enough to = know that what is printed in the hymnal is NOT what they sing. I will NEVER join a church again for which I'm serving as organist. My = home church is just that - home. I will be married in my home church later = this Spring, with my home pastor officiating, and the pastor of the church for = which I play participating in the ceremony in some way. And Arie, the family of God does cross denominations, you know. Victoria Hedberg
(back) Subject: Re: Used Organ Pipes, windchest, and Reservoir on Ebay From: "keyplayr" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:07:11 -0800 on 04/03/01 22:36, Douglas Roger Dexheimer at email@example.com wrote: > I have listed four items on EBay WHY o WHY would you resort to using eBay???????????????? It's the n-a-s-t-i-e-s-t site I've ever visited. Even IF I were deadly-interested in what you have for sale the fact that I would have to be subjected to an avalanch of cookies and spy-ware worms and then have to complete pages of forms to become an eBAY =ABgroupie=BB would see me passing -- no matter how inviting the merchandise. eBAY is a MESS! IF you want to sell your stuff (barring some LIST prohibition I am unaware of) just put it HERE! Well, that's MY CAN$0.02 worth! 8-))))) >=20
(back) Subject: Re: Used Organ Pipes, windchest, and Reservoir on Ebay From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:22:02 EST Hello firstname.lastname@example.org, In reference to your comment: eBAY is a MESS! IF you want to sell your stuff (barring some LIST prohibition I am unaware of) just put it HERE! Whoever you are, KeyPlayr, he did! Victoria
(back) Subject: Beau Surratt From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:30:36 -0600 Beau Surratt Most High Mistress of Music (now THAT's GRANDIOSE! :) Forgive this personal question, but are we to conclude, Beau, that you are female? I assumed with that name that you were male. Dennis Steckley Every gun that is made and every warship that is launched, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed--Dwight Eisenhower
(back) Subject: Kudos and thanks - re NU, etc. From: <MMccal7284@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:31:47 EST Bravo, Terry Hicks, for speaking up and telling it like it is when some of = us were too aghast to do so and/or did not have reliable information, as you = and Gregory do, to refute some posters' comments re NU made with, as you said, = "obvious lack of real knowledge of the situation." Sadly, there is no = dearth today of uneducated, ignorant people who put cybermouth/typing fingers in = gear before engaging whatever brain cells they may have, or however that old = saying goes. Gregory's post was certainly understandable and many of us do not consider it flaming. Thank you for your sharing! God bless both you and = Gregory! MaryLee McCallsiter <<< Terry Hicks wrote: I'm really amazed at the comments people make about = the NU program and Doug Cleveland, with obvious lack of real knowledge of = the situation. Gregory has every right to "flame" out of rage.....please, = folks, don't put something on the internet that is ill-informed or just plain ignorant.>>>
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04 From: "keyplayr" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:33:18 -0800 on 04/03/01 22:27, Roger Brown at email@example.com wrote: > On Tuesday 02 March 2004 17:16, keyplayr wrote: >> BECAUSE MOST eMAIL SOFTWARE OPERATES THAT WAY BY D-E-F-A-U-L-T and canno= t >> be =ABtrained=BB to do otherwise. >=20 > That's just plain wrong. >=20 > One mail program for Win32 may well operate that way by default but even = then > it only takes a moment to adjust outward messages - and not much longer t= o > install one of several addons that cure the problem. >=20 > It's not the software, it's the user who often can't be bothered taking a > moment to help others! ERR... off-topic ein bis=DFchen but..... that MAY be true for highly-experienced win\DOS users however MANY of us ar= e not in your boat! My platform is NOT win\DOS and my version of OE certainly requires a MANUAL (which MicroSoft won't supply) to ferret out that, and many other, stupid defaults buried a half-dozen or more telescoping pop-up windows deep!!! I conced that my phrase =AB and cannot be =ABtrained=BB to do otherwise. =BB might have been a bit of an exaggeration but the fact remains that for the rest o= f us it is a HUGE heradache to cure that default and a slightly lesser one to just =ABselect and delete=BB each and every time we reply. I will endeavour to do the latter so as to not invoke the ire of other listmembers. BTW... what on earth is =ABWin32=BB a new family of organ stops????? Cheers, Keyplayr (final E decreed =ABillegal=BB by win\DOS-hooked TELUS!) 8-)))))
(back) Subject: Re: NU etc. From: "Octaaf" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:41:02 -0600 Morton Belcher wrote: "Pardon me, but I have missed something. Who is = "the Rubsam?" Wolfgang Rubsam. Renowned organist and recording artist. Former = Professor at Northwestern. Naxos.com has many of his CD's, and quite a good bio on him. A Google search will direct you to much info about him and his recordings. I have several of his older recordings ...LOVE THEM. = Brilliant and elegant performances of Bach, Buxtehude, and other baroque masters. However, his "style" has evolved in recent years into to what can best be described as "Ton Koopman IMITATING Ton Koopman". Outrageous interpretation, nonsensical over done ornamentation, non musical registration, disrythmic tripe! Very sad indeed. Perhaps it is to everyone's benefit that he has taken up hair cutting with scissors in = place of hairs plitting in organ performances. Tim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.605 / Virus Database: 385 - Release Date: 3/1/2004
(back) Subject: Ancient Masters & Meantone organs, was North Texas State? From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:51:59 -0400 Andres Gunther firstname.lastname@example.org Ancient music played on meantone temperament sounds terrific, lively, spiritual and so different that you hardly want to hear it played in = modern equal temperament again. I started to yawn as soon I saw "Couperin", or "Muffat" on a recital program or record- until I listened to the works of these masters played on the restored to original Dom Bedos organ at Ste. Croix de Bordeaux (The CD is available at OHS catalog). Ancient music wasn't conceived to be performed one piece after another = after another in recitals or concerts like we are used today, however. The vast majority of the chamber music was entertainment music for banquets or = social events; Organ music was to be performed in liturgy; thus digested in small portions and at the margin of other activities. For this, to stand a large recital with "Ancient Masters Only" or listen to a 74 min record of these without interruption is so hard and boring (excepting for feverish baroque enthusiasts). To be fair, the same happens with "Romantics only" or = "Moderns only" recitals & records! A meantone tuned organ with no choice to equal as the Pasi, or a second 'modern' instrument as alternative is FAR too limitative for us 21st cty people who carry a culture baggage of almost three centuries which = witnessed a diversification in styles and worldwide expansion like never before in history. Nothing to say about actual changes in church music which even seems to demand TO divisions and features on future church organs (and I = am serious in that!). As for "people leaving in droves" that was the sad phenomenon at the time when some organists "came, saw and played" for their own sholar taste and = in an effort to "educate the crowds". Once, such a guy gave a 2 hour+ recital in the german lutheran church in Caracas with nothing but Pre-Bach in the first part and then Pepping, Messiaen and the ilk in the second part. The poor II/13 Kleuker gasped, the audience ditto. That was in 1968, but = people of the congregation who were there still shudder when somebody mentions = that recital! Yours Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.
(back) Subject: Titles, & Belonging From: "Charlie Lester" <email@example.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:49:19 -0800 My understanding of the term "Minister of Music" is that the bearer has a degree in theology. That's how it was explained to me anyway, once upon a time. So whenever people refer to me thusly, I correct them since I have no such degree. In one church, I am titled "Music Director" even though my main duty is organist. The title in simply in deference to the fact that I am the most-senior musician there (14 years). Working with me are the Chancel Choir Director (who plans 99% of the choral music and plays the piano most of the time but also plays a mean Hammond), Youth Choir Director (who has sole reign over the kids), Youth Choir Accompanist (who answers solely to the YCD), Men's Chorus Director (ditto), Men's Chorus Accompanist (ditto), The New Choir (a multi-generational contemporary choir that's directed & accompanied by the Music Director of another church), Sunday Morning Hymn Sing Pianists* (four or them, who report to & are coordinated by the Senior Pastor), and Drummer - who, poor thing, has to answer to all of us. ------- * the service begins each Sunday with a rousing hymn sing while the choir is in warm-up In my other church, I -am- the "Music Department." So rather than throw around a bunch of overstuffed titles, I am simply called what I am -- Choir Director & Organist. Re the thread of the musician needing, or not needing, to be a member of - or having been brought in - or being a subscriber to - the respective brand of theology, I have been playing the organ for almost 35 years. In those years, I have pretty much run the gamut ---- scream-n-shout Church of God in Christ, Armenian Apostolic, Armenian United Evangelical, United Methodist, African-Methodist-Episcopal, Seventh Day Adventist, Regular Presbyterian, Evangelical Presbyterian, Low Episcopal, High Episcopal, Smells-n-Bells Episcopal, Low Catholic, Medium Catholic, High Catholic, Very High Catholic, Christian Science, Religious Science, Science of Mind, Southern Baptist, American Baptist, Unitarian, and just about everything in-between. What I have found on a personal basis is that while I =3Dcan=3D adapt to most any musical environment, I do the best work where I feel comfortable and "a part of." And that generally has had more to do with the pastor and congregation (and other musicians where applicable) than to what the name on the sign-board was. ~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~ Charlie Lester Music Director Holy Trinity ELCA Choir Director & Organist Faith LCMS