PipeChat Digest #4331 - Tuesday, March 2, 2004
 
Re: Anglican organs
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: Ex-Baptist Anglican Organists, etc.
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Re: The Highway Code part 1
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: The Highway Code part 1
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: High sounding job titles
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Re: Singing from a jumbotron
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Byrd -- from the Concise Oxford Dictionary of Music
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: The Highway Code part 1
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
RE: The Highway Code part 1
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: High sounding job titles
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
RE: should the organist be a member of the denomination?
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Re: NU etc.
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Anglican organs From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:16:43 -0800   Um, I think not. It's in English.   Shaun, you're the first person I've ever heard date things in the evolution of the C of E by musical styles, rather than by Acts of Parliament or introduction of the various Books of Common Prayer (grin). The event I cited, the introduction of an English "Order for Holy Communion" into the Latin Mass by Henry VIII is generally taken as the first shot across the pope's bow (chuckle).   Cheers,   Bud   Shaun Brown wrote:   > Yes, the Byred is great, but its pre-reformation! > > Shaun Brown > s.d.brown@ex.ac.uk > ICQ: 240-836-397 > D409 Lafrowda Flats > Cornwall House > The University of Exeter > Exeter, > Devon > EX4 6TJ > 07814096356 > ext. 3160 > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of > quilisma@cox.net > Sent: 02 March 2004 18:34 > To: PipeChat > Subject: Re: Anglican organs > > > > Shaun Brown wrote: > > >>One of you appears to be referring to the religious reformation (ie, > > the > >>creation of the Church of England (1548) or the musical reformation, >>generally considered to be post-purcell. There was very little music >>written in england after purcel, until the very late 19th Century. > > > On the contrary, there's a whole body of music that's only now just > coming to light ... our Village Choir series here in the USA includes > music of the Webbes, etc. It's too bad that Boyce's "Cathedral Music" is > > so expensive ... there are some real treasures in that, as well. > > Yes, Handel DID dominate the English baroque period, and it IS a shame > he didn't write for the Anglican liturgy. A Mag and Nunc or a Communion > Service by Handel ... just IMAGINE what fun THAT would be (grin)! > > I'm curious at your use of the term "musical reformation" ... yes, there > > was a decided shift in styles after the Interregnum, but you have such > monuments as the Byrd "Great Service" which precede Purcell by quite a > bit. > > Then > >>we have such composers as Howells, Parry, Stanford, Wood, Vaughan >>Williams, Sumsion, Mathias, then onto Rutter, Chilcott, Carter, and > > most > >>recently, the huge numbers of commissions by large choirs by Cathedral >>Organists, such as Richard Shepherd, Malcom Archer, Peter Gould, > > Francis > >>Jackson. Many of them do indeed make use of the quintessential > > english > >>organ tone, full organ, big reeds, sharp mixtures, solo tubas! But > > many > >>of them call for very light, french registration. Take Mathias' "Let >>the People Praise Thee, O God", Or Archer's "Come, my Way, My Truth, > > My > >>Life". >> >>Also, in your list of Purcell Repertoire, you seem to have omitted the >>best of the lot, and in my opinion, the finest piece of English Choral >>music ever written. >> >>"Hear my Prayer, O Lord" > > > I omitted it because it's quite beyond most Anglican PARISH choirs here > in the USA. Outside of a small handful of churches, we don't really have > > anything corresponding to the cathedral/collegiate church orbit as it > exists in the UK. That was pointed up in the recent discussion about how > > American Anglicans receive their training, and the outcry in some > quarters about John Scott being appointed to St. Thomas' Church in New > York City. > > Cheers, > > Bud > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: RE: Ex-Baptist Anglican Organists, etc. From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:06:41 -0500   Beau Surratt writes:   >One of the best know and most wonderful Anglican organists in the = world,=20 Richard Webster, is an ex Southern Baptist.=20   Ex. That's the operative term. =20   > Also, there are some Episcopalians in this country, both ex-Southern=20 Baptist and cradle, who don't believe that Anglican Liturgy and Music = are=20 traditions which were dropped as is into our hands by God. There are = some=20 Episcopalians (and legitimate ones) who claim the entire tradition of=20 Christian Church Music. This, I believe, is one the virtues of the = ECUSA.=20   Eclecticism is an admirable part of our makeup. But it would be a = shame if we eclecticized ourselves out of existence as a distinct = musical voice. Most other denominations aren't so accommodating to = those among them (if any) who love chant and polyphony.   > I'm currently doing in internship (in ministry, not music) in an = Episcopal Church which=20 is one of the most thriving parishes in the Diocese of Chicago, where = the=20 music is nothing like anything Bud would produce, but the people there=20 are nourished every Sunday by the Rite II Eucharists (and even 1 from = the=20 New Zealand Prayer Book) and they live the Gospel like no congregation=20 I've ever seen. Their music director doesn't have all those=20 qualifications.   To hear of a young musician going to work in the Episcopal church = rejoices my heart, especially because given the right attitudes from the = clergy, the congregation, and probably most of all, the choirmaster, a = conversion often results. Bud has written beautifully likewise. What = does it is a subtle and beautiful combination of professional regard and = endeavor in music, plus a gentle hospitality and inclusiveness, plus a = real thirst for souls, what one author has called being "spiritually on = the make". Not to put too fine a point on it, there are elements of both = nourishment and seduction. "All is fair in love and war", and this *is* = about love.   Which brings us to a bit of a dilemma: If the choir director is not = herself or himself a member of the denomination, what motivation will he = or she have to bring others into it?   And if Episcopalians or Roman Catholics are spending their Sunday = mornings in some other denomination, how are they fulfilling their mass = obligations?    
(back) Subject: Re: The Highway Code part 1 From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:08:13 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Surely you meant John:-   Ignore all/keep.left/signs These are / purely po/liti.cal/slogans   Except in the Oxford Psalter, which should read:-   Ig/nore all keep left.sign/these~ are pu/rely po.lit/ical/slogans   Of course, the verse for the Pelican Crossing would be especially attractive in psalter-speak:-   When thou a/pproaches. a/pelican, ye must wait, /then/press the bu/tton: The lights will eventually change, to the traffic, first /amber/then/red, then to thyself, from/red/to brightest/green.   Check thee the /traffic /from right, then/left. and/right a/gain: If the way be clear, and/on.ly /then Hasten a/cross/the/road.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- John Foss <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > There was another quartet - maybe the same one - who > set the Highway Code to Anglican Chant. (to those of > you who've never heard of it, this gives the > guidelines to those learning to drive instructions > as > to what to do, e.g. "ignore all keep left signs, > these > are purely political slogans,"   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: The Highway Code part 1 From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:08:23 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Surely you meant John:-   Ignore all/keep.left/signs These are / purely po/liti.cal/slogans   Except in the Oxford Psalter, which should read:-   Ig/nore all keep left.sign/these~ are pu/rely po.lit/ical/slogans   Of course, the verse for the Pelican Crossing would be especially attractive in psalter-speak:-   When thou a/pproaches. a/pelican, ye must wait, /then/press the bu/tton: The lights will eventually change, to the traffic, first /amber/then/red, then to thyself, from/red/to brightest/green.   Check thee the /traffic /from right, then/left. and/right a/gain: If the way be clear, and/on.ly /then Hasten a/cross/the/road.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- John Foss <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > There was another quartet - maybe the same one - who > set the Highway Code to Anglican Chant. (to those of > you who've never heard of it, this gives the > guidelines to those learning to drive instructions > as > to what to do, e.g. "ignore all keep left signs, > these > are purely political slogans,"     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: RE: High sounding job titles From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:11:36 -0500       > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Conway [SMTP:conwayb@sympatico.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:09 AM > To: PipeChat > Subject: High sounding job titles >=20 > I have refrained from entering the debate between Bob Elms and Bud = Clarke,=20 > for fear of upsetting other people on the list. But here goes! >=20 > When I first came to Canada back in 1968, I was very surprised by the=20 > grandiose titles given to a lot of appointments posted. For instance, =   > everybody at the University where I taught for some 25 years was a=20 > Professor, - well perhaps not the Janitor, - but in fact, if you = wanted to=20 > know something you always (and still do) ask the Janitor. In the case = of=20 > the Janitor in the Department where I worked, he parlayed his job into =   > opening up a cleaning business, from which he retired recently having = many=20 > employees working for him. He retired earning at least as much as a=20 > Professor does! >=20 > Now, the Anglican Cathedral here, in Kingston, employed an Organist = and=20 > Master of the Choir, but I soon found out that in North America, (that =   > includes Canada), they get grandiose titles such as Minister of Music, = or=20 > Director of Music, - when really they are Organist and Choirmaster, = even in=20 > small churches by comparison to a Cathedral. >=20 > This grandiloquent job title, I suppose, is geared to receiving higher = pay=20 > for doing the same work! It has long been my belief that provided the =   > Parson can work with the Organist, everything works out very well, - = if he=20 > doesn't, as Bud Clarke found to his cost, - then forget it! >=20 > Do the job, to the best of your ability, call it what you will, but it = is=20 > still an Organist and Choirmaster's job! >=20 > Bob Conway >=20 > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >=20 >=20  
(back) Subject: Re: Singing from a jumbotron From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 06:14:28 +0800   You know, Alan, that hasn't been the case at all in our church. We're very = conservative (OPC) and the P/W songs aren't there to cater to anyone in = particular; the ones we use tend to be doctrinally dense and sound -- they = are an extension of the hymnal (we don't do the ad nausium repatition = stuff.) Quite often one of the three P/W songs will be directly out of the = Trinity Hymnal.   A projector, it is theorized, will save money in the long run on the cost = of reproducing "lyric sheets" every week, and keep the clean-up time after = service managable. Of course little kids will have to bring their own = coloring books. ;-)       ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Freed <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:25:45 -0500 To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Singing from a jumbotron   > On 3/2/04 12:53 AM, "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> wrote: > > > Funny, but the strongest arguments against the Jubmotron(r) are coming = from > > the high-schoolers ... ours want to do Psalms a capella. > > How neat! But, weirdly, that's our experience TOO! The YOUNG ones want = to > do things the OLD way! (It's part of their rejection of their parents' > generation, I guess--and the corresponding high regard for the = grandparents' > generation.) > > Alan >         -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Byrd -- from the Concise Oxford Dictionary of Music From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:30:57 -0800   Byrd, William (b probably Lincoln, 1543; d Stondon Massey, Essex, 1623). Eng. composer. Org., Lincoln Cath., 1563. From 1572 hon. org. Chapel Royal jointly with Tallis. In 1575 he and Tallis jointly pubd. a coll. of motets, Cantiones sacrae, dedicated to Queen Elizabeth I. From 1587 to 1596, Byrd pubd. several important collections of Eng. mus. Left London for Essex 1591, as member of household of his patrons, the Petres. Wrote some of his Gradualia for undercover masses held in Ingatestone Hall. Little is known of Byrd's life apart from various lawsuits over property and the fact of his Roman Catholicism, from the consequences of which he seems to have been protected at a time of anti-Papism by his fame as a composer and by friends in high places. In his motets and masses, Byrd showed himself the equal of his Fr. and It. contemporaries as a contrapuntist. He was an innovator in form and technique in his liturgical works, the finest of which is the Great Service. His madrigals are also of exceptional quality, and there is superb mus. in his solo songs and songs for the stage. In his Fancies and In Nomines for str. instr. he est. an Eng. instr. style of comp., but perhaps even more significant was his mus. for virginals, in which he developed variation form, and his series of pavans and galliards for kbd. Among his pupils were Morley and Tomkins, and probably Weelkes and Bull. Prin. comps.:   SACRED WORKS: Masses, No.1 in 3 v.-parts, No.2 in 4, No.3 in 5. Motets: Cantiones (with Tallis, 1575. Contains 17 items by Byrd); Cantiones sacrae, Book I, 1589 (29 motets), Book II, 1591 (32 motets); Gradualia, Book I, 1605 (63 motets), Book II, 1607 (45 motets); Preces, Psalms and Litany; Short Service; Great Service; 12 verse anthems; 10 psalms.   SECULAR WORKS: Madrigals; sonnets; Songs of sundrie natures (1589), containing 47 songs; solo songs, canons, and rounds.   INSTRUMENTAL: 14 Fantasies; 8 In Nomines; 9 pieces in In Nomine style on plainsong melodies.   KEYBOARD: Over 120 pieces in various colls., incl. My Ladye Nevells Booke, transcr. 1591, and Parthenia (1611).   -------------------------------------------   Since the above differentiates between "Masses" and "Services" (as was common in Byrd's time) it's fairly clear that the latter were written for the Anglican liturgy, along with the Preces, Psalms, Litany, etc.   Plus it contains items FOR the Anglican liturgy   1. The Great Service: Venite 2. The Great Service: Te Deum 3. The Great Service: Benedictus 4. The Great Service: Creed 5. The Great Service: Magnificat 6. The Great Service: Nunc Dimittis 7. The Great Service: O Lord, Make Thy Servant Elizabeth 8. The Great Service: O God, The Proud Are Risen 9. The Great Service: Sing Joyfully Unto God   which would have no liturgical use in the Roman liturgy. In addition, the English version of Salve fac populum tuum (O Lord, Make Thy Servant Elizabeth) places it well AFTER the English Reformation by ANY definition imaginable (grin).   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: RE: The Highway Code part 1 From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:23:23 -0000   This was just a quartet who wrote the stuff for a laugh and did it for = some concert at my church - but I know the professional quartet you mean - = they used to chant loads of stuff. The "ignore all left and right signals, = these are merely political slogans" comes from the late great Gerard = Hoffnung's address to the Oxford Union, in his description of his role as a tourist guide during the Festival of Britain in 1951. His other advice to the tourists was as follows: "You will oblige your landlady by hanging your mattress out of the window every morning. All London brothels display a = blue lamp. Have you tried the famous echo in the reading room at the British Museum? Zebra parking places are provided everywhere..." Wonderful = stuff. I still have the record. His letters from Continental hoteliers are even funnier- "There is a French Widow in every bedroom, affording delightful prospects". Unfortunately, a bedroom with bath I do not have - a = bathroom with bed I have! Although I am not good in bath, I am superb in bed... = etc. etc. And then there was the bricklayer story.... and as for Hoffnung's Astronautical Music Festival at the Festival Hall - that was quite something.   Will Light Coventry UK     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of = John Foss Sent: 02 March 2004 21:36 To: PipeChat Subject: The Highway Code part 1   There was another quartet - maybe the same one - who set the Highway Code to Anglican Chant. (to those of you who've never heard of it, this gives the guidelines to those learning to drive instructions as to what to do, e.g. "ignore all keep left signs, these are purely political slogans," or somesuch. John Foss   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : Public dishonesty Passion aroused     =09 =09 =09 ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"=20 your friends today! Download Messenger Now=20 http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: RE: The Highway Code part 1 From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:33:34 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   My favourite bit of Hoffnung concerns the Royal Festival Hall concert, at which HRH Queen Mother was present.   In talking about "Concrete music", the lines went (if I remeber correctly).....   "No longer does zee self respecting German composer use zee pen and paper. He now uzez de mazematical slippy rule....no longer does he use the fork in tune....etc"   Quite a risky line around 1955!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Will Light <will.light@btinternet.com> wrote: > This was just a quartet who wrote the stuff for a > laugh and did it for some > concert at my church   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: RE: High sounding job titles From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:36:09 -0500   > in North America, (that includes Canada), they get grandiose titles = such as Minister of Music, or=20 Director of Music, - when really they are Organist and Choirmaster, = even in=20 small churches by comparison to a Cathedral.   > This grandiloquent job title, I suppose, is geared to receiving = higher pay=20 for doing the same work!=20   The only time I had the title of "Director or Music", I was paid = nothing. I soon learned, unfortunately, that the job title itself was = fraudulent. The real director of music seemed to be a very officious = chairwoman of music committee, with a wishy-washy rector feeling free to = throw additional monkey wrenches into the works on short notice, = according to whoever might have complained to him last within the past = 48 hours.   I suggest that the situation is precisely the opposite to what you = describe: typically, in this incipient banana republic we're living in, = grandiloquent job titles are handed out *in place of* the remuneration = once offered. Sales clerks who once earned a living wage are now = "Associates" at minimum wage or close to it. This is all part of the = "veneer of fraud" (Morris Berman's term, if I recall) increasingly = endemic in our life and language.   In this case, however, I don't see what is particularly grandiose today = about "Director.. " or "Minister of music." They might have been = pretentious terms fifty years ago (the middle class is fond of the like, = admittedly) but now they are just tired middle-class. sound. I'd = rather have been called "Organist and choirmaster."   Two fashionable terms that really do annoy me: (1) "Parish Musician." = I suppose the idea is that the incumbent is supposed to be creative and = "think outside the box." And/or show up at all and sundry get-togethers = to strum and hum, not just liturgies. Which are bad enough-- but = furthermore, it sounds like a very lonely job. I don't want to be in a = church where I'm the *only* musician. (2) Canon for Music (or some = such). Now if a canon isn't a big shot, I don't know what is <groan>. = When given to a layman, it is a total and confusing misuse of a term = historically reserved for clergy. Furthermore, it implies a lifetime = status, which is probably a bald lie: I bet the occupant can be fired = just as quickly and easily as before.        
(back) Subject: RE: should the organist be a member of the denomination? From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:40:08 -0500   Victoria Hedberg writes:   > I will NEVER join a church again for which I'm serving as organist. = My home church is just that - home.=20   This is indeed very good advice, which I will echo. But in most places, = it is quite easy to be a member of a different congregation or parish = and still within the same denomination. =20    
(back) Subject: Re: NU etc. From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:40:31 -0500   McElwain KEMPER