PipeChat Digest #4332 - Tuesday, March 2, 2004
 
FW: Episcopal Air Travel   (EAT)
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: High sounding job titles
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Chicago Organ Degree Programs WAS:: Re: NU etc.
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: Questions
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
RE: Rubsam
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Re: Anglican organs
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: showing my ignorance
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Mailer Programs in PipeChat Digest #4322 - 03/02/04
  by "Mickey Sadler" <mickeysadler@wowway.com>
Licking stamps and milking cows
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: NU etc.
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: NU etc.
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: Registration practices in Bach works (LONG)
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Registration practices in Bach works - addendum
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: my final word
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
"Episcopalian"
  by "Stan Yoder" <vze2myh5@verizon.net>
Preludes on Hymntunes from The Hymnal 1982
  by "Robert Nickel" <rnickel@charter.net>
Re: Methodists
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
 

(back) Subject: FW: Episcopal Air Travel (EAT) From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:46:04 -0500   I received this with zero attribution, so can=B9t credit it. I=B9ve tinkered with it a tiny bit, in the hope that I won=B9t run afoul of copyright law. (But I=B9ll probably be taken into custody before Matins.)   =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0EPISCOPAL AIR TRAVEL   Attention, Episcopal Air passengers for flight 777.   The preflight sherry reception will begin shortly at gate 1-C. When the plane is ready for boarding, your flight usher will make the appropriate announcement. Please have your completed pledge card ready to turn in to th= e usher in the narthex.   Remember that, even though all seats are First Class, the back rows fill up first, and those seats are the most expensive. Also be aware that if we cannot meet our budget from the pledges of today's passengers, we will not be able to fly all the way to New York, but may instead have to land in Sandusky or Poughkeepsie. (In either case, mass schedules will be availabl= e in the narthex.)   Before entering the cloistered jetway, please extinguish all smoking materials except incense. The smoky section for Anglo-Catholics is on the Epistle side of the aircraft, rows 1-6. We are sorry that we cannot fully accommodate both "high" and "low" passengers on this flight, so we are taking a via media approach and flying at a midrange altitude (so long as there are no obstacles into which to crash, in which case we will have to call our diocesan flight tower at 815 for further instructions).   We want every comfort for our guests. Our seats are fully cushioned. Our footrests convert easily to padded kneelers. Our life jackets (God forbid that we should need them!) are always color-coordinated to the proper liturgical season or day. Please speak with the pilot after the conclusion of the flight, if you would like to contribute a memorial stained glass window to this aircraft. You will see some of the windows already contain beautiful designs.   Dinner service will begin shortly after takeoff with cocktails and hors d'oeuvre, followed by a sit-down dinner. Of course our amenities include linen-covered fold-down meal trays, and we use only real china and silver. (For you ecumenical partners traveling with us, relax - the proper forks will be served with the proper courses, so you need not worry which one to use to eat what!)   The chamber music trio will be playing in the front of the cabin, and will also be streamed live to the headphones at your seat. Other channels available to you include BBC news, Gregorian, Ambrosian, or Anglican Chant, organ favorites, and our latest addition, relaxing nature sounds.   The offices of Evening Prayer and Compline will be offered at the Oratory i= n the center of the cabin. Everyone is invited to participate.   Should the plane experience mechanical difficulties, entrance to the Orator= y is on a first-come, first-served basis. Praying at your seat is, well, permitted. You will find the English-language, 1979 US Book of Common Praye= r in your seat pockets. (Available from your attendant by special request, ar= e Spanish or Braille Editions, as well as the 1928, 1662, 1549, -- and New Zealand versions.)   We hope you enjoy your flight. Please introduce yourself to your neighbors and sign the guest book before you leave. This concludes our announcements.   Remember that Episcopal Air Welcomes You. Have a nice trip and thank you fo= r flying with Episcopal Air. We hope to see you again soon.       Apologies from Lutheran Alan      
(back) Subject: Re: High sounding job titles From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:16:10 -0800       Emmons, Paul wrote: > > 2) Canon for > Music (or some such). Now if a canon isn't a big shot, I don't know > what is <groan>. When given to a layman, it is a total and confusing > misuse of a term historically reserved for clergy. Furthermore, it > implies a lifetime status, which is probably a bald lie: I bet the > occupant can be fired just as quickly and easily as before. > > >   Nope, on both counts. Historically, canons WEREN'T necessarily clergy; like as not, they were wealthy donors who bought their seats on Chapter. The only requirement was that they be able to READ, and they had to read a passage from the Bible in front of Dean and Chapter in order to be = seated.   For instance, the canon in charge of the fabric of the cathedral was seldom a cleric in Major Orders ... likely he received First Tonsure, as was required for virtually EVERONE ... even the Vicars Choral and the Singing-Boys ... in pre-Reformation times.   Nowadays, "Canon Precentor" can be the priest who intones the sung services, OR the Organist/Choirmaster.   Locally , the Organist/Choirmaster of St. Paul's Cathedral was just invested as a Canon, and he's a layman ... I forget which title, though.   Cheers,   Bud          
(back) Subject: Chicago Organ Degree Programs WAS:: Re: NU etc. From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:16:23 -0600   At 11:56 AM -0800 03/02/04, T.Desiree' Hines wrote: >. And there needs to be opportunities in major cities like Chicago. >Right now, if Chicago Musical decides to cut their program, guess >what folks?!? There will be FEW ORGAN PROGRAMS IN CHICAGOLAND. No >DePaul, no Chicago Musical College, no Univ of IL Chicago, no U of >Chicago no nothing. Just Concordia in River Forest.   Desiree   As i understand there still is an Organ Program at DePaul with Dr. Jerome Butera as the Organ Professor. However, he doesn't have any students currently as he mentioned to me recently. But I don't think that the program has been shut down.   The University of Illinois, Chicago Circle and the University of Chicago have never had any organ degree programs, actually neither of them have had any music degree programs. Actually the U of C looked down at any applied music program majors as they thought it was a "trade" (I can't really think of the exact word that was used) not an academic scholarly degree.   Before you speak you might check around with some of the "old-timers" who know the history. <G> I haven't lived in Chicago for many, many years but I did get my degree in Church Music from DePaul and was an organist in the area.   David  
(back) Subject: Re: Questions From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:20:58 -0600   Don't make me think of the Frescobaldi punishment pieces (otherwise known as Mass) in open score and 4 clefs!   Alicia Zeilenga     -----Original Message----- From: quilisma@cox.net To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:36:44 -0800 Subject: Re: Questions   > Alternatim: > > Organ - Kyrie eleison > Choir - Kyrie eleison > Organ - Kyrie eleison > > Choir - Christe eleison > Organ - Christe eleison > Choir - Christe eleison > > Organ - Kyrie eleison > Choir - Kyrie eleison > Organ - Kyrie eleison > > a la Couperin, etc. > > Alternatim was forbidden by a decree of the Sacred Congregation of > Rites. I don't remember off-hand whether Pius the X mentioned it in the > Motu Proprio on church music ... as I recall the decree was BEFORE > that, > which would put it in the 19th century, or earlier. > > There were already decrees in Spain that required the text to be spoken > (shouted?) audibly OVER the organ's verses, which must have been > interesting when the trumpets were in use. > > I am speaking here, of course, of the liturgical use of alternatim in > the Roman Catholic Church. Others may do as they like (grin). > > CHeers, > > Bud > > David Baker wrote: > > > > > Bud: What do you mean by "alternatim", and who says it is > forbidden? > > > > Also, the organ in the chancel at All Saints, Ashmont, was renovated > > (ahem!) by William Laws and hardly has any of the original builder > > left, at least tonally. I think it was originally a Casavant, not an > > Austin, but I could be wrong about that. > > > > David Baker > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related > topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: RE: Rubsam From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:26:54 -0500   The last I heard, Herr Rubsam is a barber on a farm (or something to that = effect).   Which in my estimation is curious at best, disheartening indeed. I don't = know the particulars of things, but I do know he has been an incredible = musician.   Neil Brown  
(back) Subject: Re: Anglican organs From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:28:18 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   I DID check the dates, but used an incorrect word....I was using the word "Anglican" when I really meant "Church music."   I think both Bud and myself got it right.....Byrd covers the period of the main events surrounding the Reformation, and worked both sides of the fence.   Now, regarding Henry Purcell.......   Did someone suggest that he didn't write very much, or that his music didn't find its way into the stock repertoire of the day?   Trouble is, my e-mail and Yahoo is all over the place, and I have lost certain things.   Purcell was employed first at the Chapel Royal.....not a public appointment at all, but a private royal chapel, where they could sing what they liked. Purcell's music was therefore, like Handel's church music, a very private affair.   However, for those who do not know the full extent of Purcell's church "repertoire," they might like to consider the following:-   65 FULL OR VERSE ANTHEMS   5 FULL SERVICES   121 HYMNS OR SACRED SONGS   FUNERAL MUSIC FOR QUEEN MARY     I "hope" everyone knows "Rejoice in the lord alway!" and the "Ode to St.Cecilia."   If not....go to the back of the church and stay there!   The problem with Purcell's music is that he wrote for some remarkable solo voices.....very famous voices....and the demands on the Counter Tenor are nothing short of sadistic.   I think that, in his age, Purcell was as great as Bach or Handel, and without doubt, one of the top three English composers in a list which would only include Britten and Elgar (assuming that Handel was German).   On the subject of Purcell, what about those gorgeous string works which include organ....who knows them?   It's a funny thing, but Purcell is heard more in Continental Europe than in England!!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- quilisma@cox.net wrote: > Um, check your dates, Colin. The English Reformation > began in about 1528 > or so with the insertion of the English "Order for > Holy Communion"   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: showing my ignorance From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:31:20 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Quite intuative Alan?   You obviously haven't chanted from the Oxford Psalter!   If there's a difficult way of singing a line, they found it!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Alan Freed <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> wrote: > We Lutherans chant the > psalms and canticles from > pointed text as well....... but > it's all quite intuitive.     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Mailer Programs in PipeChat Digest #4322 - 03/02/04 From: "Mickey Sadler" <mickeysadler@wowway.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:37:23 -0800   Hi All,   I don't know how Windows mail program works, but on my Mac using Mail I=20=   just highlight the text in the digest I want to use, hit replay and=20 only the highlighted text is put in my message as a quote. Give it a=20 try in your mail program and see if that works. If it doesn't, just=20 highlight the text you don't want and hit delete.   Later,   Mickey   On Mar 1, 2004, at 10:30 PM, PipeChat wrote:   > Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04 > From: "keyplayr" <keyplayr@telus.net> > Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:16:47 -0800 > > on 04/03/01 8:14, Dennis Goward at dlgoward@cox.net wrote: > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:02 AM >> Subject: PipeChat Digest #4317 - 03/01/04 >> >> >> PipeChat Digest #4317 - Monday, March 1, 2004 >> >> Re: PipeChat Digest #4315 - 03/01/04 >> by "GARY JENKINS" <gary.jenkins6@verizon.net> >> >> >> Why, oh why, is it necessary to copy the ENTIRE digest into a reply? > > BECAUSE MOST eMAIL SOFTWARE OPERATES THAT WAY BY D-E-F-A-U-L-T and=20 > cannot be > =ABtrained=BB to do otherwise. It's a n-u-i-s-a-n-c-e to skim past = this > unwanted verbiage but it's just as much of a n-u-i-s-a-n-c-e to try = to > remove it when replying to messages. While I agree with your=20 > sentiments, a > more-useful place to vent them would be at the websites of the = software > companies whose droids produce this and hundreds of other=20 > user-UNfriendly > and user-UNwanted =ABfeatures=BB. > > IF organ builders built organs like software companies design software=20=   > we'd > all have to have backward-facing feet, six pairs of hands, and be=20 > profoundly > deaf to perform on their instruments! > > Cheers, > Keyplayr >> >> D >> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related = topics >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> >> >> ---- Mickey E. Sadler Dublin, Ohio    
(back) Subject: Licking stamps and milking cows From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:47:43 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Hee hee!   Kathleen Ferrier was "discovered"....the rest is history!   At least she gave up the day job of being the village postmistress at Siloth, here in the UK.   Oh yes!   My late uncle used to sing with her regularly......he was a farmer!   Hee hee!   Never underestimate an amateur....they sometimes turn out like Edward Elgar.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- Mura Kievman <mura@speakeasy.net> wrote: > As a professional SINGER I have to agree with Bud. > I was trained to sing > and while I've known many excellent amateur singers, > they don't hold a > candle to a real pro.   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: NU etc. From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:14:55 -0600   At 07:41 AM 3/2/04, you wrote: > > Despite all the seminaries around the metro area, > > the church music > > program had no interaction with them.     The School of Music offers a unique opportunity for talented organists and =   students interested in church music. Studies in Sacred Music are offered = in cooperation with Garrett-Evangelical and Seabury-Western Theological Seminaries, both located on the Northwestern campus.          
(back) Subject: Re: NU etc. From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 18:17:28 -0600   At 07:41 AM 3/2/04, you wrote: > > Despite all the seminaries around the metro area, > > the church music > > program had no interaction with them.     So please, folks, don't put something on the internet that is ill-informed or just plain ignorant.   Guess you should have checked your facts before posting the above.....the following quote is from the NU catalog.     The School of Music offers a unique opportunity for talented organists and =   students interested in church music. Studies in Sacred Music are offered = in cooperation with Garrett-Evangelical and Seabury-Western Theological Seminaries, both located on the Northwestern campus.   jch          
(back) Subject: Re: Registration practices in Bach works (LONG) From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:34:04 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   No one has responded to this interesting post!   I'll have a go.......   Whenever I think "Bach" I think "Harpsichord."   Why?   Because it pre-disciplines the mind into a baroque way of thinking, rather than allows a free range of restless and undisciplined romantic liberty.   The Harpishcord has, at best, about three or four different sounds on a two manual instrument, but for this instrument a huge repertoire was written.   Baroque music SHOULD be about architecture, the exact working out of counterpoint and the linear flow of the various strands. Like a game of chess, Bach's music is especially intricate, and he utilised certain "tricks of the trade" to convey emotion; whether that be false entries, misleading redundant entries, the increasing excitement of diminution or the grandeur of augmentation. Then there were those wonderful inversions which, I feel sure, the listeners of the day waited for with eager anticipation....perhaps it was, as it is to-day in Holland, something of an intellectual game like "hunt the thimble."   Is Bach's music "dead" on a harpsichord, or does the freedom from sudden dynamic change and the grand climax, allow the REAL music of Bach to speak for itself?   Translated to the organ, this way of thinking more or less makes dynamic changes a redundant concept; though I often recall Michelle Chapuis adding just two stops on the wonderful Schnitger at Zwolle for the last two chords of the great A Minor P & F. "Crash" came the Posotive Cymblel, and "rumble" went the 32ft reed....a moment of enormous drama after a very flat registration throughout.   Once in the mind-set of baroque music, I really do not want to hear romantic conceptions of Bach's "intended" musical fantasies.......you know the argument....."Bach would have LOVED a romantic organ."   He may or may not have done, but the reality is, he didn't!   Once we accept the discipline of the baroque organ.....I mean REAL baroque organs, and not the poor copies most of us are aware of.....and in a REAL church with a big acoustic.....then we limit ourselves to understanding the music AS IT WAS INTENDED.   So, I would argue that for most of the big Preludes, Toccata and Fugues, "Organo Pleno" (more or less) was the order of the day.....these were BIG dramatic works on BIG dramatic baroque instruments in BIG dramatic churches with BIG dramatic acoustics.   Forget the rubbish about extreme clarity and never using the manual doubles......the 16ft Principal was an ESSENTIAL part of the Hauptwerk on any self-respecting instrument of size. Equally, the Tierces (not the French ones of course) were part of the rich chorus...probably more so than the reed stops, which probably served as colouring and solo voices rather than climax registers.   I doubt that Bach ever needs more than two balanced choruses....one big and one smaller.....acting in perfect dialogue.   To hear, for example, the magnificence of the Toccata and Fugue in F major on a true baroque instrument (at least in concept) such as Zwolle, Naumburg or the Bavo orgel, is to hear these works for the first time....everything else being a pale imitation.   In the Fugue, that wonderful moment, as the Positive happily chirps away, and then the theme returns to the Hauptwerk. Listen as both hands slip across the keys and join forces, to be joined by a full independent pedal chorus to brilliant effect.....it needs nothing more....no big reeds, no swell boxes opening or, worst of all, a general crescendo pedal.   And if you MUST add a climax, then do what Chapuis does for the last three chords.......just draw that Cymbel and the 32ft reed....wow!   However, this sort of disciplined approach to non-registration means that the performer has to turn to other methods of musical control and expression. Exact and regular phrasing....imitation in fact....."the linear counterpoint of the single line." (Listen to the Solo Cello works!)   Tempo......not too fast!   There was a Baroque sensibility which allowed the linear arguments to blossom and be heard.   Wasn't it the organ builder Snetzler who, on hearing an organist play his new organ at Halifax Parish Church here in the UK, said something like, (in his broken German/English accent) "te tevil, te tevil! He doth run around the keys like one cat, and does not give my phipes room for to shpeak!"   With 16ft Pleno choruses, pipes really do need "room for to speak," and that implies a steadier tempo than we often hear to-day.   I would argue that, a Gigue Fugue which couldn't be danced to by someone middle-aged, is far too fast!   The word which best sums all this up is "CONTROL"....and in Bach, that is the hardest thing of all to achieve. It is not about "technique" but about "strategic thinking"......musical chess par excellence and the very essence of Bach's genius!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK           --- "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> wrote: > On "another list" They are talking about Bach and > Registration. > > Bring it on here! >       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Registration practices in Bach works - addendum From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:45:59 -0800 (PST)   Hello,   Just as an afterthought, I once heard a comment which rather rocked me on my heels.   It went something like this:-   "What was the loudest sound in the 18th century? The sound of the sickle? The dull hammering of the blacksmith? A horse and cart? The laughter of children playing, or perhaps the gentle tap, tap of the cobbler?"   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o     Compare THIS to the sound of the Baroque Organ!   This was the BIG BANG of life! The show-stopper! The roar of the moon rocket or Concorde! The howl of the unsilenced racing car!   Nothing could compare with the thrill.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK         __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: my final word From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:47:30 +0800   Bud, your problem has surfaced here again. I have no hostility toward you = at all. I just do not agree with some of your statements, especially your inclusion of my country in a list of countries whose churches you claim = have poor church musical practices. You made that statement with no evidence at all. If you see that as unrelenting hostility I am very sorry, but only = you can change that attitude. As for my "unrelenting hostility" to all things professional and academic in the practice of church music, what an extraordinary statement for you to make!. Never have I held that attitude, nor have I ever said anything of the sort. I have academic qualifications = of my own so why would I say such a thing? Last from me too. Argument with you is pointless. Bob Elms.   > What galls ME, Bob is your unrelenting hostility toward me personally > and all things professional and academic in the practice of church = music. > > I shall say no more. > > Bud > >>    
(back) Subject: "Episcopalian" From: "Stan Yoder" <vze2myh5@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:53:31 -0500   AFAIK, this word is NOT an adjective, but a noun. The adjectival form is = 'Episcopal.'   Thus,e.g., "He/she is an Episcopalian, and sings Episcopal hymns."   OTOH, "Lute" for Lutheran is a new one to me. Appropriate in that Marty = Luther played the lute.   Stan Yoder, Lute Pittsburgh    
(back) Subject: Preludes on Hymntunes from The Hymnal 1982 From: "Robert Nickel" <rnickel@charter.net> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:57:15 -0600   Someone wrote earlier today about preludes on hymntunes in The Hymnal = 1982. I also saw a post regarding some of the Kevin Mayhew publications. = Listed below are a few Kevin Mayhew publications that I have found interesting = and useful. Although I play in a Moravian church, I like the variety of = playing pieces on unfamiliar hymntunes. I purchased all the publications via jwpepper.com.=20   If you are wondering whether or not a hymntune appears in any of them, = let me know. I would be more than happy to check the table of contents. =20   100 Hymn Preludes (c) 1993 100 Hymn Preludes for Manuals (c) 1996 64 Hymn Preludes for Manuals (c) 1998 The Great Feast: Organ Music for Lent, Holy Week and Easter (c) 1997   Bob Nickel      
(back) Subject: Re: Methodists From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:52:36 -0600   The United Methodist Church in Britain as well as the church of the same name in the United States is the result of merging a number of smaller Methodist denominations, all of which, as far as I know, originally trace their origins to the Methodist movement, founded in the eighteenth century in the Church of England by the Wesleys.   John Speller   ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 5:57 AM Subject: Re: Methodists     > Are we meaning "United Methodists" when we are saying "Methodists" > James Grebe > Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair > Artisan of Wood > WWW.JamesGrebe.com > 1526 Raspberry Lane > Arnold, MO 63010 > pianoman@accessus.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:00 PM > Subject: Re: Methodists > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <quilisma@cox.net> > > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 3:28 PM > > Subject: Methodists > > > > > > > Um, Will, I doubt seriously that American Methodists would recognize > > > their British cousins, and vice versa. American Methodism bears = little > > > resemblance to its British counterpart. > > > > All I know is that I was at school with John Wesley, great grandson of > > Samuel Sebastian Wesley, and that he was, like John & Charles Wesley = and > all > > the other Wesleys (except Samuel who was a Roman Catholic) Church of > > England. > > > > John Speller > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >