PipeChat Digest #4338 - Thursday, March 4, 2004 Re: Episcopal hymns by <firstname.lastname@example.org> RE: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites by "Mari" <email@example.com> Re: Methodists by <Myosotis51@aol.com> RE: Episcopal hymns by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Monty's Reminder by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house by <RMB10@aol.com> Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house by "Dr. Amy Fleming" <email@example.com> Re: Doug Cleveland by "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Cincinnati (off-topic) by "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites by "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house by <DERREINETOR@aol.com> RE: Episcopal hymns by "Will Light" <email@example.com> Re: Jumbotrons and such by <RMB10@aol.com> Re: Episcopal hymns by "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: Re: Jumbotrons and such by "Charlie Lester" <email@example.com> Re: Re: Jumbotrons and such by <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites by "Octaaf" <email@example.com> Re: Music of Gordon Young by "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Cincinnati (off-topic) by "Randolph Runyon" <email@example.com>
(back) Subject: Re: Episcopal hymns From: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:21:53 -0800 Um, there are other ways to lead unfamiliar hymns ... one is to introduce it by simply playing the tune in octaves with no harmony, either for the intro, or one or more verses; you will hear that done in English churches for intros; another is to solo out the soprano on another manual, either for the intro or for one or more verses; another is to have congregational rehearsals, either before the service, or after the service during announcement-time, for the FOLLOWING week's hymns, or at meetings during the week ... Women's Guild, St. Andrew's Brotherhood, etc.; or have a potluck once a month and HOLD a congregational rehearsal, and call it a "hymn-sing and social." Another way that I OFTEN used was to have a "Hymn of the Month" ... if it was a rousing one, we sang it for the opening and closing hymn on alternate Sundays for a month; if it was a quiet one, we sang it for communion four Sundays in a row. In my experience, playing chorale-preludes doesn't REALLY accomplish that much ... not everybody's in church to hear them before the service starts, and unless they're pretty straightforward (tune in the soprano, unornamented), not very many people "get" it. I discovered that when I played the Bach chorale prelude on "O Sacred Head" before we sang it for communion one time ... somebody said, "what was that lovely piece you played during communion?" When I told them it was a prelude on the communion hymn, they looked at me blankly and said, "oh." (chuckle) The VAST majority of our WEEK-DAY High Masses at St. Matthew's were WITHOUT choir, and since they were Holy Days, like as not the hymns WEREN'T familiar, since they were only sung on that one day a year. Average attendance was usually around 100 (out of 200 communicants at the time). I never had any difficulty; they sang up a storm (grin) ... hymns, Ordinary, AND Proper, which I printed in the bulletin pointed to Anglican or Gregorian tones. You would have more luck finding "A la venue de Noel" under its old name: "Jesu Dulcis Memoria" ... don't know where the editors of the 1982 Hymnal came up with "A la venue de Noel." THAT'S why people need to keep their 1940 Hymnals (grin). General Seminary WILL take awhile to enter the repertoire, if it ever does (chuckle). *I* wouldn't choose it for a service without choir, I don't think, unless the congregation WERE exceptional singers. I would NEVER choose St. Helena for "There's A Wideness in God's Mercy" .... the Hampton setting is fine for a choir; the FAMILIAR tune to Methodists, Presbyterians AND Anglicans is "Beecher." I'm POSITIVE you'd find stuff on Mit freuden Zart in Concordia or Morning Star's catalogues. My Episcopal Musician's Handbook hasn't been unpacked yet, but I'm almost SURE there's a list of organ music based on hymns in that. Cheers, Bud Gerald Montagna wrote: > I wasn't getting relevant answers to my question, so I'll give a > specific example. This week in our parish the hymn tunes will be St. > Helena, A la venue de Noel, General Seminary and Mit freuden zart. > Amongst my very numerous collections of hymn preludes and postludes, > I don't have a single one on any of these four tunes. "A la venue de > noel" is anything but obscure for Episcopalians, it's the very > standard Lenten hymn "Kind maker of the world". These are the kind > of hymns I was referring to in my previous post, that are causing me > frustration. > > The main purpose of playing hymn preludes is to acquaint the > congregation with the melody. For organists in large episcopal > churches, this usually isn't necessary because you have paid choirs > to lead the hymns, and usually a very stable congregation that has > been singing the hymns since childhood. Parish churches don't have > paid choristers, some don't even have choirs anymore because of the > advanced age of the congregation. Also people are beginning to > attend who never sang these hymns before, mostly immigrants (most of > whom don't read music). Furthermore, one rector may choose hymns > never chosen by previous rectors. In my parish, the rectors > traditionally stuck to 50 hymns out of the whole hymnal so that the > current rector constantly gets complaints from the old-timers that > "I've never sang this hymn before in my life!" In a parish with no > choir to lead hymns, newcomers to the Episcopal church, and a rector > trying to broaden the selection from the hymnal, my hymn-tune > preludes are a necessity. That is why a lack of preludes on tunes > like "A la venue de Noel" is a serious problem for me, and why I > posed the question of how others deal with it. > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for > pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : > http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:email@example.com > Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > mailto:email@example.com > > >
(back) Subject: RE: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites From: "Mari" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:19:10 -0500 wondering which fl church that would be...... Mari -----Original Message----- From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]On Behalf Of T.Desiree' Hines Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:00 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites Yes and it's a shame that I have to be careful just because of who I am = as a Sacred Musician and Pipe organist. When that happened in Florence MS, it was an awakening that someday, I would apply for a job as an organist at a church in MS and that my race would come into play. So, I have to be very careful as to where I continue my education not only for the sake of = having a good teacher, but also for the sake of my practicing what Divine has called me to do. Not only does race play a part in some situations, but = sex, and sexual orientation as well. I heard that the former female organist at = a prominent FL church left, and the pastor said that never again would he = hire a woman. Praestant@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4.3.04 12.14.04 AM, email@example.com writes: In the year 2000, people, this white church Beulah Baptist Church of Florence, MS told their members that black people were not welcomed. In the year 2004, a man who was not elected president is throwing his support behind the desecration of the U.S. Constitution to = institutionalize discrimination, to constitutionalize a second class of people. A vote for any Republican is a vote for bigotry, racism and heterosexism. I share = your shock, Desiree', but I am not at all surprised. From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.
(back) Subject: Re: Methodists From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:23:10 EST Hello Bud, In reference to your comment: The average American Methodist has never SEEN a copy of The Discipline, much less READ it ... it only gets dragged out at General Conference to beat you-know-whos over the head (chuckle). I consider myself an "average American Methodist," and I HAVE a copy of = the discipline. It DOES make a great weapon, though. <g> Here on Long Island (eastern New York), the majority of the Methodist churches use the Order of Service as printed in the hymnal. Occasionally = the Communion service is sung (it's most often spoken, with a few sung = responses), but the Psalms have a sung response on most Sundays. Very like most local Episcopal, Presbyterian, and other mainstream = Protestant services. Victoria
(back) Subject: RE: Episcopal hymns From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:25:12 -0500 > "A la venue de Noel" is a serious problem for me, and why I posed the = question of how others deal with it. I entirely agree with your desire frequently to play voluntaries based = on the hymn tunes. The problem with "A la venue de Noel", to me, is not the lack of pieces = based on it but the lack of pieces that have Lent in mind. As its name = implies, it is a Christmas tune. Louis-Claude Daquin and contemporaries = have set it (e.g. Daquin's Noel no. 1). It is also known as "the carol = of the birds." We, too will sing this hymn and it occurred to me to = play this piece as a prelude. Howeer, I doubt that it would give off = the right vibes spiritually to use a Christmas piece for Lent = (especially such a sprightly one as this), even though it is the same = melody. Furthermore, the composer would probably roll in his grave at = the idea of playing the organ *at all* on the second Sunday in Lent.=20 I wish that hymnal compilers wouldn't do this kind of thing.
(back) Subject: Monty's Reminder From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:23:20 -0600 Monty said: Ok, I'm getting tired of the contemporary music and = contemporary worship bashing that's going on. It has nothing to do with organs. Amen, Monty! Sometimes I get the impression that a few of our list = members believe that when Jesus went to the temple at age 12, it was to hear the = new Aeolian-Skinner organ just installed. And if Peter ever got to Rome, it = was to get a new Casavant four-decker for the Vatican. And with all due respect to the person who mentioned it, a "CCM = conspiracy" to "force" CCM on all churches? I'm sorry, that makes me roll on the = floor laughing. I love pipe organs--and I devoutly wish my congregation had one--but organ or not has absolutely nothing to do with theological soundness of worship. I am on this list to talk about organs. Dennis Steckley & A Six-Pack of Cats
(back) Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:28:42 EST >It means you should never play a Roosevelt organ, for one thing :-) Are = you so >embarrassed about your political persuasion that you can't sign your = name? > >Robert Lind I'm the anonymous Republican....I just was in a rush when I was posting = and hit send before I signed my name. All you have to do is look at the = headers and see who the post is from, but if it concerns you who it is, I'll sign = the post this time. Monty Bennett
(back) Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house From: "Dr. Amy Fleming" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:38:03 -0600 I find the remarks against Republicans inflammatory and hateful. It makes = me uncomfortable reading this list. Not because you disagree but because of the hatred and anger. If anyone wrote those things against any other = group of people (fill in the blank) they would be booted off this list. WRT Iraq = - we stood up for oppressed people when they could not stand up for themselves. I have a lady working for me whose son is in Iraq and she is 100% behind the invasion. Thank God we just don't always look the other way. WRT tax cut. The people who paid in got some of their hard earned money returned. Life is full of inequities. Neither will money solve all of = your problems. This is a fallen world. Music is a refuge from all the problems. PLEASE let it be so. Amy Fleming Ozark Veterinary Hospital Harrison, Arkansas
(back) Subject: Re: Doug Cleveland From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:40:01 -0800 (PST) Oh ture! I met him some time ago and he's sweet as Mississippi tea on a = Summer day. I would certainly want to have a lesson with him, though, to = see how our chemistry would be together as Aspiring Artist/Artistic = Mentor. That's with anyone, in my case. I will not study with anyone until = we have a lesson and I see how we are. You never know, I may fall in love = with his teaching. I may not. Masterclasses with people who are well known = are how I know who I would love studying with and who with whom I would be = wasting my money. Another thing I like to see is a repertoire outline for = a potential program. For example, the repertoire outline at U Michigan is = out of this world in beauty. After leaving there, you WILL know how to = play a variety of pieces from all periods, and you will know how to play = in a style which pleases not only organists, but people. And that's one thing that wrong with our field. We try to please other = organists. WE are already attracted to the instrument and love it. One = example is with Darryl's unsettled feeling to Master Rubsam at SMU some = years ago at the Convention. While may others there liked it. Someone even = very rudely commented on the Ruffatti organ at Coral Ridge calling it a = "chainsaw". Why did they call it a "chainsaw"? Probably because a lot of = other organists badmouth that wonderful instrument, and Fratelli Ruffatti. = But the organ pleases a lot of PEOPLE who are not ORGANISTS. What's wrong = with the organ? What's wrong with Ruffatti? They are vibrant and filled = with life, in my opinion. And its so fullfilling to see elementary school = children singing the Processional Hymn at Coral Ridge on TV. They are = pleased. They may come along in the future and save some of us when we are = tired, weak and worn. Another situation I recall is Mark Miller...former assistant at Riverside. = He's DYNAMIC! He played in Jackson about 6 years ago completely from = memory and is truly a good ole down home Methodist boy. Everyone was on = their feet in applause on the last chord of the Durufle P and F sur le nom = Alain. I remember the program well. However, some years later, two people = affiliated with an organ program at a school on the west coast heard him = play a Bach Trio sonata in practice for the concert. They immediately went = up to him and suggested him to play the trio sonata on all 8' principals = and blah this and blah that. But Mark was only pleasing them...other = organists. The colorful, sparkly registration was beautiful. ANOTHER situation is in a masterclass with Charles S Brown, who in my = opinion is another very fine teacher. He said that one time, he had a = student give a concert. After the concert he felt that the student had not = put any of his own feeling and musical taste into the program. Master = Brown said "I had my student play a recital that I would have played." He = said it was a learning experience for him (CSB that is) We will convene again in July at AGO LA to do what...please other = organists. If one organist does not like the way someone plays, others = may. We should not be afraid to share opinions in our field with the = caution that others may not like us. Besides, we each go where we fit in, don't we? From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.
(back) Subject: Re: Cincinnati (off-topic) From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:40:58 -0500 On 3/4/04 10:53 AM, "ContraReed@aol.com" <ContraReed@aol.com> wrote: > Q: How many Cincinnatans does it take to screw in a light bulb? > > A: Just one. And we prefer that you not use the expression "screw". Most definitely. You wanna talk dirty, or rent a lady for the evening, = you go across the river to Covington, Ky. Alan
(back) Subject: Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:44:27 -0800 (PST) Monty is a Republican. OK I think that what he was responding to is that in our own field, Monty, = there's a lot of discrimination. A lot. A whole lot. from all parties of = politics and from all races of people. What he was getting to is that its a shame, that the Church, is a = discriminating place. I should not have to be afraid that a place may not = hire me to be an organist because of my race and being a woman. One should = not be afraid that a church will find out why they are not married and = fire them. I think he's just saying its a shame that so many of us in Sacred Music = have to be careful as we answer God's calling. From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.
(back) Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:44:47 EST I would agree that our politics apropos "civilian life" should be kept (mostly) to ourselves. I wake up every morning next to someone who belongs = to a different political party than I do, and worships in a different = tradition. I find it the spice of life, and mostly irrelevant to Organ and Liturgical = matters. Where they do intersect, maybe. But otherwise, not. Bill H.
(back) Subject: RE: Episcopal hymns From: "Will Light" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:45:45 -0000 Now here's a new topic coming up! Over here in THE UK, the FAMILIAR tune = to both Anglicans and Methodists for "There's a Wideness in God's Mercy" is = not "Beecher" but "Cross of Jesus" by Stainer - one of the congregational = hymns written as part of "The Crucifixion" I wonder how many standard hymns = have different standard tunes on opposite sides of the pond? Will Light Coventry UK -----Original Message----- From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of firstname.lastname@example.org [BIG snip] I would NEVER choose St. Helena for "There's A Wideness in God's Mercy"=20 .... the Hampton setting is fine for a choir; the FAMILIAR tune to=20 Methodists, Presbyterians AND Anglicans is "Beecher." Bud
(back) Subject: Re: Jumbotrons and such From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:47:07 EST >I can name you at least two churches that are doing EVERYTHING wrong by Monty's >lights, and are growing like WEEDS: > >St. Matthew's Anglican Catholic Church, Newport Beach CA >St. Thomas Episcopal Church, New York City Bud misunderstood my premise here.....these two churches have fantastic music. What I was talking about was music that bores people to death, = organ playing that you can't sing to, etc. St. Thomas is known WORLDWIDE for = it's music program. You built the music program at St. Matthew's into a sold = program. That congregation is a singing congregation. I'm sure it's not a dull = music program. However, how many traditional churches have you been to that you = could have napped for an hour and gotten the same effect from the church = service? THAT was my argument. Myers Park Baptist Church in Charlotte is a very traditional church...one of the most formal churches in the Charlotte = area--rivaling any of the Episcopal churches in liturgy and music. The organ playing and = choral singing is glorious. There is not a gospel hymn to be had, nothing = contemporary about any services there, nor will there ever be. I love = services there--playing for them and attending them. They meet a different need = than some of the services at my own church which affect a different part of my soul. = What I'm saying is that there is no right or wrong, but we've got to = accept that what may be right for some people is not going to be right for all, = so lose the attitude folks. There's room for all styles of worship in God's kingdom. Monty Bennett
(back) Subject: Re: Episcopal hymns From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:47:31 -0500 On 3/4/04 10:54 AM, "Gerald Montagna" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > That is why a lack of preludes on tunes like "A la venue de Noel" is a = serious > problem for me, and why I posed the question of how others deal with it. I'm with you, Gerald. As a Lutheran, I don't think I know that tune at = all (nor the text), but General Seminary and Mit freuden Zart are SURELY in various collections of the kind you seek. I'd check catalogs from = Concordia and AugsburgFortress. Alan
(back) Subject: Subject: Re: Re: Jumbotrons and such From: "Charlie Lester" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:48:07 -0800 <firstname.lastname@example.org> said, =3D-> Amen, Monty!! If sermons and church music show as much passion as you showed just now (like we do at where I play), then maybe churches WOULD be fuller. <-=3D And I'll add MY "AMEN" as well! I very cordially invite any of you to visit Holy Trinity Evangelical Lutheran Church, 9300 Crenshaw Blvd., Inglewood, California, Sunday services at 10:30 p.m. Those who wish to experience "happy clappy" first hand instead of hiding behind their "contempt prior to investigation" may be in for a very pleasant surprise. Or not. But at least you will have experienced it for yourselves. Although, n.b., we don't have ALL the trappings -- no jumbotron sorry to say. But we do have a lot of other good stuff -- shrieky 1960s pseudo-baroque pipe organ (one more example of the dark side of the orgelbewewewewewung); then Hammond + Leslie, although it's a Concert Model Hammond so I guess you could say it's "blended!" --- 7'6 Kawai grand --- drums --- tambourines --- two Roland synths. AND we have a church full of YOUNG PEOPLE. Instead of a sea of blue hair rinse, we have many kids, teens, young adults and young families. Our youth choir has some 35-40 members. In a parish where the membership is somewhere around 400 but growing steadily. We also have a very warm, loving, welcoming congregation. You will be made to feel very much at home regardless of race, creed, color, gender, sexual persuasion, economic level or political affiliation. Unlike some churches where visitors are viewed with narrow-eyed suspicion at worst and simply ignored at best. (A neighbor of mine went to a church once where a crabby old lady came in and asked her to move, because she was sitting in "her seat." She moved, all right --- all the way out to the parking lot.) The church is full nearly every Sunday. There's nothing dull, boring, or funeral-esque about our worship services. Compare that with, what, 80-90% of the "traditional" churches in Los Angeles where a smattering of people would be considered good turn-out. See ya there .... or else quit sitting in your ivory towers and judging [well, not even judging, but jumping straight to "condemning"] what you haven't even experienced. ~ C
(back) Subject: Re: Re: Jumbotrons and such From: <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:49:07 +0000 No, Bud, it's not. However, you don't hear ANYONE on this list doing = that. I know it happens in the "outside" world, but we don't need to do = it here. Some of us are finding it quite offensive--and would EQUALLY = offended if traditional bashing took place. Regards, Jeff > I don't think the argument is advanced by bashing traditional churches, > traditional worship, and traditional music either.
(back) Subject: Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites From: "Octaaf" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:48:54 -0600 You're not alone there Bud. No Tax Cut for my house either. And for the record Mark, I did vote in 2000. Fact is the "Activist = Judges" (Dubya's recent words) of the U. S. Supreme Court nullified my vote, right along with more than half of ALL Americans who voted in that election. Having read the Constitution, I AM ANGRY that the Supreme Court, the US House, and the Senate IGNORED the Constitutional process for dealing with = a disputed Presidential Election. My anger isn't directed just at Dubya, = but ALL of them! What we have as a result is preemptive war based on lies, = tax cuts for the rich, nonsensical education policies, sweet deals for drug companies under so called Medicare reform, erosion of privacy and civil rights, huge no-bid contracts to Halliburton (Cheney MUST be paid for = those Stock Options after all), and proposed amendment of the Constitution for = the purpose of discriminating against some 25M Americans, ... the list goes on and on. Why not just resurrect the Nuremberg Laws of the 1930's and by done with = it! Why bother with Elections, and the Constitution. Deal with those who dissent, are disabled, gay, and non Christian all at once. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: <email@example.com> To: "PipeChat" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites > > > Mark W. McClellan wrote: > > > > > > > Praestant@aol.com <mailto:Praestant@aol.com> > > wrote some pretty angry stuff > > > > > > I can't imagine living with that much anger for nearly 4 years, > > probably only aggravated after you cashed that tax cut check. > > WHAT TAX CUT CHECK? *I* never got one. Oh, that's right. I only made > $36K ... I wasn't RICH enough to get one. > > Bud --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.605 / Virus Database: 385 - Release Date: 3/1/2004
(back) Subject: Re: Music of Gordon Young From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:51:18 -0800 (PST) Oh hunny...you've done come to the right place! I love me some GY. Harold Flammer/Shawnee Press Hope has some collections of his Lorenz/SMP as well What collections of his do you have? I think I have all the ones that are = in print. The G minor Passacaglia from Organ Solos for Worship and Recital = (HF/SP) is a great Lent postlude. And the Pavane in D minor in GY Organ = Music (pub. Lorenz) is a great undulating prelude. I usually start a = cresendo at the trilly parts and end up on full organ, keeping a feel of = the dramatic part of the Prelude from Durufle's Suite, and go back down to = just the Dulciana and 16 L Ged. Its funny...his music pleases people. Several Organist critique it. But we = all praised his money when he gave 500K to AGO, did'nt we? From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.
(back) Subject: Re: Cincinnati (off-topic) From: "Randolph Runyon" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:49:49 -0500 on 3/4/04 12:40 PM, Alan Freed at email@example.com wrote: > On 3/4/04 10:53 AM, "ContraReed@aol.com" <ContraReed@aol.com> wrote: > >> Q: How many Cincinnatans does it take to screw in a light bulb? >> >> A: Just one. And we prefer that you not use the expression "screw". > > Most definitely. You wanna talk dirty, or rent a lady for the evening, = you > go across the river to Covington, Ky. > > Alan > I think that used to be Newport, not Covington, but it's been all cleaned = up now. Not that you still can't find what you're looking for. Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio firstname.lastname@example.org