PipeChat Digest #4339 - Thursday, March 4, 2004
 
Re: Re: Jumbotrons and such
  by <reedstop@charter.net>
RE: Cincinnati (off-topic)
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: Music of Gordon Young
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Episcopal hymns
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Episcopal hymns
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house
  by "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net>
RE: Re: Jumbotrons and such
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
RE: Cincinnati (off-topic)
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
The "CCM Agenda"
  by "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com>
Re: Monty's Reminder
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
CCM and liturgy
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: Episcopal hymns
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Gordon Young Music Sources
  by "Robert Nickel" <rnickel@charter.net>
Re: Subject: Re: Re: Jumbotrons and such
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Re: Jumbotrons and such From: <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:52:38 +0000   >radical, agenda: to force this music into established > liturgical formulae with intentional disregard for the flow of = liturgical > tradition.   Good point, Bill! That's why ministers and musicians should ensure that = the CCM services ARE complete with the full liturgical tradition. It can = be -- and has been -- and IS being -- done. I know...because I'm in a = church that does it. Every element of the liturgy is there. OK, maybe = it's not page 158 in Lutheran Worship, but it's there. In fact, we've = used "WITH ONE VOICE" setting Five almost every time for the liturgy. = We're not talking liturgy, but the songs...entrance, sermon, communion, = sending. (Or at least, *I* am.)   :)   Regards, Jeff    
(back) Subject: RE: Cincinnati (off-topic) From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:54:13 -0000   Oh dear - I wonder if we were being led astray when my organist friend = in Cincinnati and his lady friend, not is wife, took Ros and me over to Covington Ky during our visit to Cincinnati a year ago? Mind you, I = didn't hear any dirty talk or meet any ladies of the night - after all it was = 10 am - but we did see an interesting German Clock tower, with moving figures depicting the Pied Piper of Hamelin - but alas, it didn't work - the = figures were all frozen solid in the ice!   Will Light Coventry UK     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of = Alan Freed     Most definitely. You wanna talk dirty, or rent a lady for the evening, = you go across the river to Covington, Ky.   Alan        
(back) Subject: Re: Music of Gordon Young From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:58:10 -0800 (PST)   Hey Robert Lind!? The Chant Heroique, I have never seen. Still in Print? Most of my organ library is in transit to me from my Godmothers house in = WA. When it gets here I would love to share some titles of his. I will = probably do a recording of some of his music in a few years. His music is = also great to practice dramatic registration changes. Several of his = softer pieces have F, FF, and even FFF markings in them at some points, = which for me made good practice for the changes in Alain's Litanies.   Preludes for Worship Vols 1-3 from Hal Leonard are very nice too. But, any = collection you get from GY is great anyway. Im doing his Festivals in = concert in a few mos. his Cathedral Suite is availbable from Europe.       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.  
(back) Subject: Re: Episcopal hymns From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 10:07:56 -0800   Um, let's see:   Dear Lord & Father of Mankind - "Repton" rules supreme (among Anglicans at least) in the UK; in the US until recently it was "Rest" by Frederick C. Maker; "Hermann" in the Episcopal Hymnal 1940 never caught on, to my knowledge   Alleluia! Sing to Jesus - assorted tunes in the UK, including Ton-y-Botel and Vision (a LOVELY tune in the English Hymnal); Hyfrydol all the way in the US.   Just As I Am - Saffron Walden in the UK; Woodworth in the US   Nearer, My God, To Thee - Horbury in the UK; Bethany in the US   Those are just a few that come to mind without doing a lot of research.   Cheers,   Bud   Will Light wrote:   > Now here's a new topic coming up! Over here in THE UK, the FAMILIAR tune = to > both Anglicans and Methodists for "There's a Wideness in God's Mercy" is = not > "Beecher" but "Cross of Jesus" by Stainer - one of the congregational = hymns > written as part of "The Crucifixion" I wonder how many standard hymns = have > different standard tunes on opposite sides of the pond? > > Will Light > Coventry UK > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of > quilisma@cox.net > [BIG snip] > > I would NEVER choose St. Helena for "There's A Wideness in God's Mercy" > ... the Hampton setting is fine for a choir; the FAMILIAR tune to > Methodists, Presbyterians AND Anglicans is "Beecher." > > > Bud > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Episcopal hymns From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:02:24 -0500   On 3/4/04 12:21 PM, "quilisma@cox.net" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote:   > You would have more luck finding "A la venue de Noel" under its old > name: "Jesu Dulcis Memoria" ...   Oh! That's what it is! No wonder I never heard of it. Well, with the "right name," it should not be hard to find.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 10:11:51 -0800   Um, Organ Off-Topic was created for this sort of thing ... I REALLY think we should take this over there ... those who are interested can join; those who are not interested can stay HERE and argue about happy-clappy vs. traditional (chuckle).   The addy is:   orgofftop@yahoogroups.com   I gots LOTS to say about Republicans (grin).   Cheers,   Bud       Octaaf wrote:   > You're not alone there Bud. No Tax Cut for my house either. > > And for the record Mark, I did vote in 2000. Fact is the "Activist = Judges" > (Dubya's recent words) of the U. S. Supreme Court nullified my vote, = right > along with more than half of ALL Americans who voted in that election. > Having read the Constitution, I AM ANGRY that the Supreme Court, the US > House, and the Senate IGNORED the Constitutional process for dealing = with a > disputed Presidential Election. My anger isn't directed just at Dubya, = but > ALL of them! What we have as a result is preemptive war based on lies, = tax > cuts for the rich, nonsensical education policies, sweet deals for drug > companies under so called Medicare reform, erosion of privacy and civil > rights, huge no-bid contracts to Halliburton (Cheney MUST be paid for = those > Stock Options after all), and proposed amendment of the Constitution for = the > purpose of discriminating against some 25M Americans, ... the list goes = on > and on. > > Why not just resurrect the Nuremberg Laws of the 1930's and by done with = it! > Why bother with Elections, and the Constitution. Deal with those who > dissent, are disabled, gay, and non Christian all at once. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <quilisma@cox.net> > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites > > > >> >>Mark W. McClellan wrote: >> >> >>> >>> Praestant@aol.com <mailto:Praestant@aol.com> >>> wrote some pretty angry stuff >>> >>> >>> I can't imagine living with that much anger for nearly 4 years, >>> probably only aggravated after you cashed that tax cut check. >> >>WHAT TAX CUT CHECK? *I* never got one. Oh, that's right. I only made >>$36K ... I wasn't RICH enough to get one. >> >>Bud > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.605 / Virus Database: 385 - Release Date: 3/1/2004 > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: RE: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:03:59 -0800 (PST)   I wonder myself ;)   Mari <mreive@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: wondering which fl church that would be...... Mari -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of = T.Desiree' Hines Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:00 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites     Yes and it's a shame that I have to be careful just because of who I am as = a Sacred Musician and Pipe organist. When that happened in Florence MS, it = was an awakening that someday, I would apply for a job as an organist at a = church in MS and that my race would come into play. So, I have to be very = careful as to where I continue my education not only for the sake of = having a good teacher, but also for the sake of my practicing what Divine = has called me to do. Not only does race play a part in some situations, = but sex, and sexual orientation as well. I heard that the former female = organist at a prominent FL church left, and the pastor said that never = again would he hire a woman.     Praestant@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4.3.04 12.14.04 AM, nicemusica@yahoo.com writes:   In the year 2000, people, this white church Beulah Baptist Church of = Florence, MS told their members that black people were not welcomed.   In the year 2004, a man who was not elected president is throwing his = support behind the desecration of the U.S. Constitution to = institutionalize discrimination, to constitutionalize a second class of = people. A vote for any Republican is a vote for bigotry, racism and = heterosexism. I share your shock, Desiree', but I am not at all surprised. =     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster.   From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.  
(back) Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house From: "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:02:49 -0600   Dr. Fleming,   Has it ever occurred to you that "the hatred and anger" as you put it are justified? You may be a blind "follower" of an illegitimate President, = but spare me the Republican rhetorical "Talking Points".   Tim A FORMER Republican       --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.605 / Virus Database: 385 - Release Date: 3/1/2004    
(back) Subject: RE: Re: Jumbotrons and such From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:08:28 -0000   I don't know if you have the expression in the USA, but when we talk about = a group or a new political party or some such which has a broad consensus of opinions and shows tolerance of a wide variety of views it is said to be a "broad church". I think that there is room for THE CHURCH to be more of a "broad church". None of us need to bash or beat up the opposition - even though most of us have musical preferences which may make us lean to one side or the other.   Will Light Coventry UK     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of reedstop@charter.net Sent: 04 March 2004 17:49 To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Re: Jumbotrons and such   No, Bud, it's not. However, you don't hear ANYONE on this list doing = that. I know it happens in the "outside" world, but we don't need to do it here. Some of us are finding it quite offensive--and would EQUALLY offended if traditional bashing took place.   Regards, Jeff      
(back) Subject: RE: Cincinnati (off-topic) From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:14:40 -0000   We went there too! But all we saw in Newport was some gigantic BELL = hanging outside in a kind of tower made of girders!   Will Light Coventry UK     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Randolph Runyon Sent: 04 March 2004 17:50   I think that used to be Newport, not Covington, but it's been all = cleaned up now. Not that you still can't find what you're looking for.     Randy Runyon      
(back) Subject: The "CCM Agenda" From: "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 10:28:07 -0800   =3D-> The CCM movement has a very different, and quite radical, agenda: to force this music into established liturgical formulae with intentional disregard for the flow of liturgical tradition. <-=3D     NONSENSE.   What are "they" doing -- going from church to church armed with UZIs (and Jumbotrons) demanding that every congregation throw out their hymnals and jump on the "happy-clappy" bandwagon?   and btw I am not a "traditionalist" basher for the record. Nothing would thrill me more than to serve a big, thriving church with nothing more than a pipe organ, traditional hymns sung from hymnals, and a great choir that sings good old fashioned anthems.   But what I =3Dam=3D is a realist -- I realize that that kind of worship experience is, by and large, a thing of the past. And those who are trying so desperately to cling to it -- again, more because of FEAR [of change] than anything else are seeing the fruits of their obstinacy. For every ONE or TWO "thriving" traditional parishes you can cite, there are hundreds more that are dying or already dead.   I also have come to realize that "traditional" is what =3DI=3D want. But I am not a church musician to serve myself, but to serve God - and that includes serving God by serving others. And that includes "deigning" to do service in ways that may not particularly suit MEEEEE but that may suit someone else. E.g., playing music that may be "lower" than my "discerning standards and wall-full of [dust-gathering] degrees and letters.   And don't give me the response that I should be a "teacher" and "educate" people into "higher standards" of music. That's the elitist thinking of a self-righteous and self-important mindset. If people were looking for a "music education" they would be going to music school, not church. Maybe it is US who need to be educated.   You know, there was a time when I would "hide out" in the church where I have been serving for 14 years. I was embarrassed and ashamed about some of the antics that went on, and I would have been loathe to invite any of my more sophisticated and learned colleagues there. Whenever I talked about it, I would loudly note that we have a pipe organ, and would rarely admit that there is a Hammond there as well [and that I know how to play both of them]. And I would CERTAINLY never tell the shameful secret that people actually CLAP, and sometimes shout "AMEN" and "HALLELUJAH" in our church. And that we have DANCERS? Their secret was safe with me!   But as time goes on and I see what a sweet and loving congregation I serve, and realize how good they have been to me and many others, and become aware of how sincere and genuine their faith is, and realize that their focus is on grace and salvation, I have had quite a change of heart in this regard. I am no longer "ashamed" of the kind of church I play in, and I don't any longer concern myself as to whether or not my loftier colleagues endorse it. As far as I can see at this point, "it's their loss."   While, yes, I, too, do long for the "good old days," I would not swap them for the kind of church experience I have today at Holy Trinity.   I'll conclude by saying just a little about my other church, one of those 90%-ers that was 90% empty most of the time. The church, in its heyday, had a thousand members and multiple services. Now, they have one service and the enrolled membership is somewhere around 250. And average turnout was usually around FIVE percent of that number. The list of names on the prayer list was often longer than the list of people sitting in church on any given Sunday.   It's odd, though, how since the pastor and I have been instituting some of that Gawd-awful "Contempt-o-rary" music and new worship forms into the liturgy, little by little, attendance is increasing. There are actually children and young people in that church now, getting involved in things like running the lighting and sound systems, and sacred drama and liturgical dance. And there's talk of forming a youth choir.   Sunday School classrooms, which a year ago were dark, empty, tomb-like and covered with dust and cobwebs, have been opened up, aired out, swept clean, and have kids in them now. People are beginning to chip in for things like new landscaping and shrubbery, and every Saturday morning the men gather for "church clean-up." Every time I go down there, something else has been painted or cleaned or refurbished.   How wonderful it is to see some flesh appearing on what were some VERY dry bones.......   Can ALL THIS really be due to "happy clappy" music and worship? Well, you tell me.   My first couple of months, the average turnout was about 15. In the second month, I started a choir. Now, a year later, the average turnout is about double what it was a year ago. NO, I do NOT take credit for this. I give ALL the credit where it is due.   ~ C    
(back) Subject: Re: Monty's Reminder From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:28:08 EST   Dennis,   I didn't have the privelege to read the "CCM conspiracy to 'force' CCM on = all churches" post. However, if you're referring to my post in which I = suggested that there is an "quite radical agenda: to force this music into = established liturgical formulae with intentional disregard for the flow of liturgical tradition", you might have been civil (fair?) enough to have quoted me = properly, and in context.   I'll go on record as saying that I have no problem with CCM. I'll also say =   that my two posts about liturgical churches experimenting with CCM in such = a way as it disrupts liturgical continuity or is disingenuous about the real theological and liturgical heritage of a certain denomination (for which = CCM style worship is "new") are valid questions for both organists and choirmasters = of every tradition.   I apologize for my bookish rhetoric, but if my posts are read--and read critically, surely one can do better than to misquote.   Pax Tecum, Bill H.      
(back) Subject: CCM and liturgy From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 10:41:58 -0800   I think MY main objection is that MOST CCM *isn't* grassroots ... let me explain:   I have attended positively ecstatic Masses accompanied by traditional African-American and African music, with the wonderful kind of spirit-filled chaos you see in the movie "Somebody Say Amen!" THAT moved me ... even though I'm white, I'm a Southerner; I could CONNECT with THAT.   Let's be clear here: people can be TAUGHT just about ANYTHING.   I keep coming back to the kids off the streets at Boystown, who sang (and loved) the monuments of western music, because Father Schmidt bothered to TEACH it to them.   I'm rather annoyed at the racism-tinged comments that came to light recently concerning the closing of the choir school at St. John the Divine years ago. St. John the Divine is in the middle of Spanish Harlem; there was an IMPLICATION (at least) that if the neighborhood kids were admitted to the choir school, they couldn't learn the music of the Anglican tradition.   That's simply hogwash.   If, as Monty said, the choice is between VIBRANT, WELL-DONE CCM and mediocre traditional music done badly, of COURSE there's no contest. I have to tell you, over on Anglican-Music, I read ENDLESS uninspiring service-lists of Rite II services, and it doesn't have to BE that way, Rite II or not. I don't LIKE Rite II, but when I had to do it, I did it WELL.   Music programs are as inspiring as their leaders are inspired ... no more, no less.   Deon Irish in Cape Town, South Africa leads a WORLD-CLASS Anglican music program comprised SOLELY of VOLUNTEERS. St. Mary Magdalene in Toronto STILL has a world-class choir, decades after Dr. Willan's death, and has never spent a DIME on it, beyond purchasing music.   I built St. Matthew's music program in a converted telemarketing boiler room with an eight-foot ceiling, and a dying Hammond organ ... the choir was never more than 4-3-3-3 (out of a congregation that numbered about 100 communicants back then), augmented by four paid section leaders for Christmas, Holy Week, and Easter.   I'm just DUMB, I guess ... nobody ever bothered to tell me, "you can't do THAT," so I just keep doing it (chuckle), whatever "it" gets to be.   But I don't buy the premise that you have to do CCM because you CAN'T do good traditional music. From the outside looking in, it seems to me that CCM requires a good deal MORE effort AND outlay of MONEY. Give me a copy machine (grin ... CPDL, of COURSE), a computer with Sibelius, a dozen people who WANT to sing, and some kind of organ that can make SOME kind of reasonable noise, and I'll HAVE a music program.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: RE: Episcopal hymns From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:47:25 -0000   Repton - agreed - although we have a tune called Mansfield College also = set to it, which has never caught on.   Alleluia Sing to Jesus - we have always sung Hyfrydol too - but Vision = we always sing to "It is God who holds the nations in the hollow of his = hand"   Just as I am - we do use Saffron Walden, but equally often sing it to Misericordia by Henry Smart.   I agree about "Nearer my God to Thee" - although I cannot remember the = last time we ever sang it - it managed to hang on to its place in the "new" Methodist book in 1985, but I doubt it would any more these days - I = think it would be dropped. We did have another tune called "Nearer to Thee" in = the "old" 1932 book, which had no composer ascribed to it, merely saying "American" I wonder if that is still in use? It is a fairly chromatic - fairly "squelchy" harmony tune.   At my mother's memorial Thanksgiving Service on Saturday, I've chosen a grand new hymn, "Born in Song" to a new tune by Brian R. Hoare called Chatsworth which is absolutely TREMENDOUS - but when David Barton = visited, he said it was unknown to him. (And yes, I haven't forgotten I said I'd = send you a copy of it, David - it's in the pipeline!) -=20   Will Light Coventry UK     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of quilisma@cox.net Sent: 04 March 2004 18:08 To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Episcopal hymns   Um, let's see:   Dear Lord & Father of Mankind - "Repton" rules supreme (among Anglicans=20 at least) in the UK; in the US until recently it was "Rest" by Frederick =   C. Maker; "Hermann" in the Episcopal Hymnal 1940 never caught on, to my=20 knowledge   Alleluia! Sing to Jesus - assorted tunes in the UK, including=20 Ton-y-Botel and Vision (a LOVELY tune in the English Hymnal); Hyfrydol=20 all the way in the US.   Just As I Am - Saffron Walden in the UK; Woodworth in the US   Nearer, My God, To Thee - Horbury in the UK; Bethany in the US   Those are just a few that come to mind without doing a lot of research.   Cheers,   Bud   Will Light wrote:   > Now here's a new topic coming up! Over here in THE UK, the FAMILIAR = tune to > both Anglicans and Methodists for "There's a Wideness in God's Mercy" = is not > "Beecher" but "Cross of Jesus" by Stainer - one of the congregational hymns > written as part of "The Crucifixion" I wonder how many standard hymns = have > different standard tunes on opposite sides of the pond? >=20 > Will Light > Coventry UK >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf = Of > quilisma@cox.net > [BIG snip] >=20 > I would NEVER choose St. Helena for "There's A Wideness in God's = Mercy"=20 > ... the Hampton setting is fine for a choir; the FAMILIAR tune to=20 > Methodists, Presbyterians AND Anglicans is "Beecher." >=20 >=20 > Bud >=20 >=20 > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >=20 >=20 >=20     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Gordon Young Music Sources From: "Robert Nickel" <rnickel@charter.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:52:18 -0600   Both of these websites have Gordon Young music:   www.maleckimusic.com www.jwpepper.com   Bob Nickel      
(back) Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Re: Jumbotrons and such From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:58:28 -0500   On 3/4/04 12:48 PM, "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com> wrote:   > Holy Trinity Evangelical Lutheran Church, 9300 Crenshaw Blvd., = Inglewood, > California, Sunday services at 10:30 p.m. > Well, that's a bit late in the day, of course, except for the Easter = Vigil. But I do appreciate the invitation. Sounds like a graet place!   You, Charlie, have authored several superb posts in the past day or two!   Alan