PipeChat Digest #4340 - Thursday, March 4, 2004
 
RE: Jumbotrons and such
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Re: Singing from a jumbotron
  by "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com>
RE: Anglican organs
  by "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net>
RE: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Re: The "CCM Agenda"
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4330 - 03/02/04
  by "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com>
RE: Cincinnati (off-topic)
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
RE: Episcopal hymns
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
RE: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites
  by "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com>
Liturgical Happy Clappy
  by "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com>
Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites
  by "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net>
Gordon Young
  by "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com>
RE: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Abbott's Leigh   ----  Re: Episcopal hymns
  by "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com>
Desiree - Bud?
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
Re: Desiree - Bud?
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Gordon Young
  by <Rachmaninoff45@aol.com>
Re: Desiree - Bud?
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Desiree - Bud?
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
RE: Episcopal hymns
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
RE: Desiree - Bud?
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: Episcopal hymns
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Desiree - Bud?
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #4330 - 03/02/04
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Cincinnati (off-topic)
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Jumbotrons and such From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:47:36 -0500   Monty Bennet writes:   >Sure, churches that worship like that generally don't want anything to = do with organs or anything traditional, but who cares. At least in the = United States, we have the freedom to choose where we want to worship. =20   My sister attends such a church. It's Episcopal, believe it or not, and = it is rapidly growing. I have to give the rector credit at least for = being perfectly up-front about this. Someone gave the church an old = electronic organ and he accepted it because he said "some people still = think that churches need to have organs." But it sits in a corner = gathering dust and is never used. I would rather see a church make a = clean, honest break with the past like that, than to hire an organist = and choirmaster and then proceed to complain when he uses the classics = of the organ and choral repertoire.   > Ok, I'm getting tired of the contemporary music and contemporary = worship bashing that's going on.   I will bash it unrepentantly for three reasons:   I'm not blaming you for choosing a word that conveys a meaning clearly. = You wrote "contemporary" and we all know what you meant. You didn't = think it up. But someone did. And my first objection is: there is = something either airheaded, arrogant, or Orwellian in hijacking the word = "contemporary" to refer exclusively to music of that style, as its = purveyors are wont to do. If we're asked to perform contemporary music, = is there some reason that a composition of Naji Hakim, Peter Maxwell = Davies, or Arvo Paart wouldn't qualify? These are just three, of = course, who are contemporary per every definition of the word in = Webster's Third International, including that they are composers now = living, i.e. contemporary with us, and giving us new songs to sing unto = the Lord. And I'm not about to bash any of *them*. =20   Second, those who do claim to like music in-- let us call it style X for = now, since you object to calling it "happy-clappy" and I object to = calling it "contemporary"-- are remarkably hard to pin down as to = specifics. Perhaps they can identify a particular entity that they like = today. But ask them next year, if not next month, and they probably = will have grown tired of that particular entity and enamored (for the = moment) of another. What values does this fickleness reflect? It may = be that it somehows reflects eternal verities, although someone will = have to develop that thesis. It is certain that they conform to the = values of Mammon, which flourishes and desperately depends upon planned = obsolescence and distractibility. Music is an *industry* today, haven't = you noticed. CCM is one little department. Giving the public music = with staying power is the last thing it wants. I'd-a thought the = Christian faith shouldn't be exactly complacent about these goings-on.   Thirdly: as I've admitted before, consenting adults can have what they = want. But I'll quit rather than feed junk to kids. Their time is too = precious to waste.     > =20  
(back) Subject: Re: Singing from a jumbotron From: "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:12:45 -0600     On Mar 2, 2004, at 10:53 AM, Randy Runion wrote:   > but if it simply > another way of reproducing the very same music that is in their > hymnals or > could be reproduced in their bulletins, that what is the point?   I used to feel exactly that way, and, unlike most church musicians, I am quite opinionated and tend to speak my mind. <grin> Several years ago (about 5) I visited Dallas TX and had occasion to attend a Sunday Morning Service at "Cathedral of Hope' where a projection system was in use. I found that holding one's head up and actually seeing the worshippers around you singing can be a very uplifting (no pun intended) experience. It definitely made an impression on me. The preacher also used the screen for a video preaching-aid quite effectively. (BTW he was quite a good preacher - Mike Piazza (NOT the baseball player)) I can no longer make a blanket condemnation of the use of projection systems ; it matters how they are used.   Larry Wheelock Director of Music Ministries Kenwood United Methodist Church Milwaukee, Wisconsin musicdirector@kenwood-umc.org              
(back) Subject: RE: Anglican organs From: "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:29:56 -0600   Since neither the sender nor the recipient is identified, I assume that = this is private correspondence sent to the list in error.   There's really enough traffic on this list without such as this.   Michael David - both the name I sign and my e-mail identification   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of DERREINETOR@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 3:19 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Anglican organs     Dear SD,   I'm not sure I can put "Hear my Prayer" at the top of my English list, = but it's pretty darn close!   BH SJE Boston    
(back) Subject: RE: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:38:03 -0500   > I think he's just saying its a shame that so many of us in Sacred = Music have to be careful as we answer God's calling.=20   Make that "Scared Music." ;-)      
(back) Subject: Re: The "CCM Agenda" From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:43:23 EST   Dear crlester, et al.,   I won't give you the "teacher-educate people to higher standards" = response. The response I WILL give, however, is to challenge you to debate my = assertions, and to read some very good books on the subject--not all of which are = against CCM or Evangelical worship. I'd be happy to share with you the = bibliography on which my assertions are based. I have not received ONE response that = even began to address my arguments IN CONTEXT. I get the feeling that throwing = the baby out with the Baptismal water is just what some folks are up to.   I will add that I am theologically liberal, liturgically conservative (not =   REACTIONARY, but conservative) and proudly educated in a broad sense.   Bill H.              
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4330 - 03/02/04 From: "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:53:38 -0600   On Mar 2, 2004, at 4:07 PM, Margo Dillard wrote:   > You can be part of any > other denomination and most Methodist and folk in like-minded > denominations will consider your beliefs equally valid to their own.   This has been my experience also. This is the first time in my 53 years that I have regularly served a non-Lutheran congregation, and I used to think that I probably just couldn't do it. I confess, I DO miss the liturgy and the weekly Sacrament but -- the United Methodists are moving towards that if you read what the national church Worship hierarchy says - I'm not holding my breath, but at least they are FOR it in principle. When we DO celebrate the Sacrament of Communion, the congregation chooses from several fine musical settings -- they know them all--and, from the Great Thanksgiving on, it looks very, very much like any R.C., Lutheran. Episcopal celebration. This is NOT my fault -- it is The United Methodist Church re-discovering it's roots in the C. of E. (Sorry - I digress)   There is a standing joke with the clergy and especially my choir that anything they don't like must be "Lut-run" and, frankly, some of it is. The Book of Worship, for example, offers the (preferred) option of singing the Psalms from the same system of pointing used in the ELCA. In fact it even borrows the psalm-tones from LBW directly. My United Methodists now sing the Psalms to psalm-tones with only pointing better than many Lutheran congregations, nearly every week. Some hate it -- some can't do without it - just like everything else I do, Lutheran or not. It is a matter of respecting each other's understanding of God and the way in which we respond to it as a gathered body. It is not really a matter of 'Denomination' but rather of being able to discern the congregations piety and searching-out a way to work within that at the place where their piety meets mine -- and this would be the case no matter the 'Denomination" of the congregation. A very wise person once told me, "You cannot amputate people's piety - they come complete with it, and they need it." That does NOT mean that you have to bend your beliefs and desires to be the same as theirs, but it does mean treating theirs with respect. It also means searching to understand the roots of those beliefs and piety. I know as much about Methodism now as I know about Lutheranism, (Surely not enough about either) and it goes a long, long way in understanding why people have the expectations which they do. My predecessor considered himself "Anglo-Catholic" and introduced the congregation to some exceptionally beautiful music from that tradition. Unfortunately, his beliefs prevented him from sharing in the Eucharist with the Methodist congregation. I've come to understand that, that hurt more individuals in the congregation than his rudeness or attitude ever did.   This touches on another thread - the question of the title "Minister of Music," a title I have been granted by several parishes in the past, and used with pride and respect. I no longer use the title, but not because I disapprove of it. It's just that I have come to understand that, at least in this congregation, we have many, many, ministers of music who use their gifts to minister to those around them with all the power and healing that music is capable of bringing to people. The choir is a ministry, but so too, are each of the choir members ministers in their own right; and each handbell ding-a-ling, and each child-chorister, and the usher who rings the bell before the service, and on and on. Given that this congregation has acknowledged these ministries, and understands them as such, we decided that the title of "Director of Music Ministries" better reflected what I do; to gather, teach, guide and lead these various ministries and support them in a way which leads to each of them being as effective as possible within each of their own area. I'm happy with what that title says. To us, it doesn't mean that I am not a 'Minister of Music" but that my role encompasses more than that. It might be different where you are.   Larry Wheelock Director of Music Ministries Kenwood United Methodist Church Milwaukee, Wisconsin musicdirector@kenwood-umc.org        
(back) Subject: RE: Cincinnati (off-topic) From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:02:08 EST   >We went there too! But all we saw in Newport was some gigantic BELL = hanging >outside in a kind of tower made of girders!   That's the World Peace Bell, the largest cast bell in the world, which was =   designed by the Verdin Company.   Monty Bennett    
(back) Subject: RE: Episcopal hymns From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:03:21 -0500   What about "Glorious things of Thee are spoken"? There's nothing wrong = with the tune Austria, but IMHO "Abbot's Leigh", by C.V. Taylor is ten times more stirring, at least when used at a = dignified pace, as the British have known for at least a generation. I'm = afraid it hasn't yet caught on anywhere I've worked, even though it's = finally in our hymnal. Or do they still prefer Austria in many English = churches, as well?    
(back) Subject: RE: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites From: "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:16:16 -0500   Well since you're the one who made the original comment I would have = thought you knew what you were talking about. If you know who the musician is please enlighten the rest of us poor Florida musicians . Tom Hoehn, Organist Roaring 20's Pizza & Pipes, Ellenton, FL (substitute - 4/42 Wurlitzer) First United Methodist Church, Clearwater, FL (4/9?- = Rodgers/Ruffati/Wicks) Manasota/OATOS/HiloBay/CIC-ATOS/VotS-ATOS/DTOS http://theatreorgans.com/tomhoehn     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of T.Desiree' Hines Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:04 PM To: PipeChat Subject: RE: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites     I wonder myself ;)   Mari <mreive@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: wondering which fl church that would be...... Mari -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf = Of T.Desiree' Hines   . Not only does race play a part in some situations, but sex, and sexual orientation as well. I heard that the former female organist at a prominent FL church left, and the pastor said that never again would he = hire a woman.       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html     ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.    
(back) Subject: Liturgical Happy Clappy From: "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:27:17 -0800   FWIW, while Holy Trinity is decidedly what detractors dismiss as "Happy Clappy," the service is also very definitely liturgically based and all, or most of, (depending on the day) the liturgical elements are in place.   ~ c      
(back) Subject: Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites From: "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:33:15 -0600   You are correct Bud, of course.   Tim     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.605 / Virus Database: 385 - Release Date: 3/1/2004  
(back) Subject: Gordon Young From: "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:40:26 -0800   One of my favorite Gordon Young peices is his subtly abstract setting of "Beneath the Cross of Jesus" that appears in a volume entitled "Three Miniatures for Organ." Those who don't have this might want to consider getting it. It makes a really nice lenten short prelude or meditation.   I first heard "Beneath" played by Dr. Young himself on a record he made on the Moller organ at his church in PA. Funny enough, the only thing I remember from that record is this one piece. (I haven't had the record for years.) SEEEEMS like maybe the Boellman Suite Gothique was on it?? I also remember that the Pedal had a rather "gulpy" Bourdon.   ~ C      
(back) Subject: RE: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:41:23 -0800 (PST)   Hi there Email me privately and I will tell you what I heard from a reliable = source.   Tom Hoehn <thoehn@theatreorgans.com> wrote: Well since you're the one who made the original comment I would have = thought you knew what you were talking about. If you know who the = musician is please enlighten the rest of us poor Florida musicians .   Tom Hoehn, Organist Roaring 20's Pizza & Pipes, Ellenton, FL (substitute - 4/42 Wurlitzer) First United Methodist Church, Clearwater, FL (4/9?- = Rodgers/Ruffati/Wicks) Manasota/OATOS/HiloBay/CIC-ATOS/VotS-ATOS/DTOS http://theatreorgans.com/tomhoehn -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of = T.Desiree' Hines Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:04 PM To: PipeChat Subject: RE: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites     I wonder myself ;)   Mari <mreive@tampabay.rr.com> wrote: wondering which fl church that would be...... Mari -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of = T.Desiree' Hines   .. Not only does race play a part in some situations, but sex, and sexual = orientation as well. I heard that the former female organist at a = prominent FL church left, and the pastor said that never again would he = hire a woman.       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html     --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.   From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.  
(back) Subject: Abbott's Leigh ---- Re: Episcopal hymns From: "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:00:17 -0600   Paul, I have never thought of using Abbott's Leigh as the tune for = "Glorious things of Thee are spoken." Abbott's Leigh is one of the favorite tunes = of my church and choir using the words, "God is Here as we your people meet for praise and prayer, May we find in fuller measure, what it is in Christ we share, Here, as in the world around us, all our varied skills and arts, Wait the coming of the Spirit into open minds and hearts." The dignity of this tune makes it perfect for use as a Processional Hymn. This is a very liturgical Baptist church.... LOL.   Sand Lawn Northminster Church, Monroe, LA www.northmin.com     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 2:03 PM Subject: RE: Episcopal hymns     What about "Glorious things of Thee are spoken"? There's nothing wrong = with the tune Austria, but IMHO "Abbot's Leigh",    
(back) Subject: Desiree - Bud? From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:54:36 -0500   I remain convinced the Desiree is Bud's Alter Ego...or vice versa?   It's deja vu all over again.     noel jones    
(back) Subject: Re: Desiree - Bud? From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:07:22 -0800 (PST)   NO lol im Desiree here at St Turibius Church working away   No Bud alter ego here     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.  
(back) Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:10:30 EST   In a message dated 3/4/2004 1:25:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, octaaf@charter.net writes: Republican rhetorical "Talking Points those can be avoided if the other side doesnt use theirs either....   dale a log cabin but wishing the other contender had something to offer    
(back) Subject: Re: Conservatory styled programs in Major cites From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:12:54 EST   In a message dated 3/4/2004 1:00:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, octaaf@charter.net writes: No Tax Cut for my house either. big one for me and helped immensely----able to pay all bills on time   dale in florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Gordon Young From: <Rachmaninoff45@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:15:07 EST   My favorite piece of his is Prelude in Classic style. Its a fun little = piece to play.     Best Regards, Gregory Hinson    
(back) Subject: Re: Desiree - Bud? From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 13:39:01 -0800   ROFLMAO! I DID write a humor column in a local newspaper for YEARS under the nom de plume "Victoria Wainwright" (chuckle), but I ASSURE you that Desiree and I are two VERY distinct and discrete entities (grin).   She plays at an RC Church in Chicago; I am retired and living in San = Diego.   Desiree, don't you have a website with your pics on it?   Sorry, I don't anymore, since St. Matthew's took me off the church website, but I can supply one to David if he wants to post it in the "Photos" section of the PipeChat homepage, if he doesn't have one already.   Or, refer to TAO and Diapason a couple of months back ... they ran my retirement notice with a pic.   Cheers,   Bud   noel jones wrote:   > I remain convinced the Desiree is Bud's Alter Ego...or vice versa? > > It's deja vu all over again. > > > noel jones > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Desiree - Bud? From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:35:20 -0500   Ok, you two....I have seen the pictures and I am still not convinced!   noel jones    
(back) Subject: RE: Episcopal hymns From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:36:48 -0000   Abbot's Leigh every time for me! As you say it is really stirring, = whereas Austria is very pedestrian by comparison.   Will Light Coventry UK     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Emmons, Paul Sent: 04 March 2004 20:03 To: PipeChat Subject: RE: Episcopal hymns   What about "Glorious things of Thee are spoken"? There's nothing wrong = with the tune Austria, but IMHO "Abbot's Leigh", by C.V. Taylor is ten times more stirring, at least when used at a = dignified pace, as the British have known for at least a generation. I'm afraid it hasn't yet caught on anywhere I've worked, even though it's finally in = our hymnal. Or do they still prefer Austria in many English churches, as = well?   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: RE: Desiree - Bud? From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:41:26 -0600   Where's the optometrist when you need her?   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of noel jones Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 3:35 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Desiree - Bud?   Ok, you two....I have seen the pictures and I am still not convinced!   noel jones   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org          
(back) Subject: Re: Episcopal hymns From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:43:04 EST   In a message dated 3/4/2004 4:38:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, will.light@btinternet.com writes:   > Austria is very pedestrian by comparison. >   pedestrian perhaps but MUCH more fun to play with improv wise than the = other   dale in florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Desiree - Bud? From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:45:16 -0800 (PST)   ROFLMAO too Yes...im at St Turibius Church in Chicago...2000 Catholics of Polish = ancestry that are sweet as pie and want a REALLY good music program. I never seen bud, and you can see an old pic of me at = http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html My hair is way longer now and I have lost a ton of weight. but im still a = fat organist lol. They say we can't pedal right.       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #4330 - 03/02/04 From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:47:18 -0500   On 3/4/04 2:53 PM, "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com> wrote:   > I DO miss the liturgy and the weekly Sacrament but -- the United = Methodists > are moving towards that if you read what the national church Worship = hierarchy > says - I'm not holding my breath, but at least they are FOR it in = principle.   Larry, a fabulous post, from beginning to end.   Thank you.   Alan www.stlukesnyc.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Cincinnati (off-topic) From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:55:28 -0500   On 3/4/04 3:02 PM, "RMB10@aol.com" <RMB10@aol.com> wrote:   > That's the World Peace Bell, the largest cast bell in the world, which wa= s > designed by the Verdin Company.   Hmmmm. Well, if anybody could do it, they could. But I wonder. I=B9ve hear= d the same said of the largest bell at Riverside Church, NYC=8Bor was that =B3the largest cast TUNED bell in the world=B2? I=B9ve also heard it said of a pretty big bell at the Kremlin=8Bbut that one happens to be broken (a big chunk brok= e out of it many years ago).   We got any bell freaks who can resolve it?   Alan