PipeChat Digest #4342 - Friday, March 5, 2004
 
RE: Singing from a jumbotron
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
RE: Liturgical Happy Clappy
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
RE: Gordon Young
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
RE: Jumbotrons and such...addendum
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Singing from a jumbotron
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
RE: Singing from a jumbotron
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
RE: Gordon Young
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: CCM and liturgy and Grace
  by "3manual" <kml@mcihispeed.net>
Certain Organ apperiti and their first appearances.
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Certain Organ apperiti...oops the apparati part
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Organ Recital in Detroit, Sunday March 21
  by "Donna R. Hollis" <donna@dc.ipmail.att.net>
Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Desiree - Bud?
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Desiree - Bud?
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Certain Organ apperiti and their first appearances.
  by <Praestant@aol.com>
Re: Certain Organ apperiti...oops the apparati part
  by <Praestant@aol.com>
Re: Certain Organ apperiti and their first appearances.
  by "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com>
Re: Certain Organ apperiti and their first appearances.
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
RE: Singing from a jumbotron
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Re: Desiree - Bud?
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: St.Turibius
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Singing from a jumbotron From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:16:35 -0600   The preacher also used the screen for a video preaching-aid quite effectively. (BTW he was quite a good preacher - Mike Piazza (NOT the baseball player)) I can no longer make a blanket condemnation of the use = of projection systems ; it matters how they are used.   And I dare say that there are a LOT of good uses for it. The only thing I really don't like is that they're just generally not that gorgeous to look at. Of course, if you look at pictures of OUR sanctuary, you'll see big open white walls here and there anyway. Oh well. :)   I wonder, though, if there aren't a whole new host of problems in using these screens OUTSIDE of what we've said here? Computers being the wonderful little gadgets that they are tend to go on the fritz at inopportune moments (especially PC's). Wouldn't it be fun if the congregation was singing the hymn:   Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that Fatal Exception in Address 0:0x11100!   Then there's the need to have someone create the slides for the service on Powerpoint or some other presentation software, along with (hopefully!) = hard copy of the bulletin for those who either can't see the screens or hate = them so much they refuse to look at them at all. Then you need volunteers to = run the system because WE certainly can't (or can we? Hmmm...mental telepathy links...)   OK, I'm just having some fun with this.....don't take this one too seriously. :)   Jeff        
(back) Subject: RE: Liturgical Happy Clappy From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:23:23 -0600   Ours too! (I think it's a riot...two Holy Trinities with similar attributes! Charlie...LCMS or ELCA?)   Of course, our pastor is VERY liturgically oriented. A service WILL NOT take place at our church without it being so. As I mentioned, we've successfully used With One Voice, setting Five from the point of the Offertory to the end. We use the keyboard/guitar/drum combination, and quite well. (It works equally well on the organ, by the way.) We've also used Marty Haugen's "Now the Feast", but only a couple of times. I'm = hoping to increase that frequency.   Again, done well, I think it works nicely, and the people LOVE the = variety. That's the biggest comment we get: We love the variety. Even those who PREFER the "not CCM" service love the variety. I'm not sure it'd be tolerated as much if it happened every week, I must confess. And, we're = not at the stage where we CAN because we simply don't have the repertoire.   I also made a big statement about the dude and his wife in our church that are militant about it, yet...we have trouble getting the singers there to PRACTICE. Enter Directive #2: The music must be done WELL, or it doesn't get done. No screeching sopranos into microphones. Your voice MUST be decent to even GET a microphone. (Sadly, we've had our share of bloopers, but you could say the same for the traditional choir and, uh, ahem, yes, = the organist.<G>)   One of the things I like to think is that some degree of success and = quality is BECAUSE I'm involved in it. I think the group is over the "Oh my gosh, he's gonna come in and change everything" to where we work together as a cohesive team. I've put my foot down and said "NO" on some things, and on others I relax my posture and let them enjoy what they want to do. If we can all get along, we might start bridging the gap to where we give = everyone a chance to get what they want and be ONE church instead of two.   Peace...   Jeff    
(back) Subject: RE: Gordon Young From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:24:31 -0600   Yes!! This is a neat little piece indeed! An organbuilder friend of mine introduced it to me. Check it out!   Jeff     My favorite piece of his is Prelude in Classic style. Its a fun little piece to play.      
(back) Subject: RE: Jumbotrons and such...addendum From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:20:25 -0800 (PST)   What we need as organist is individuality and the right to have = our...opinions, likes and dislikes without others saying we are being = "un-organistic". Some organists like Gospel music and play it in their chuches, as Monty = Bennett does. I for one, can say that I am called to be an organist = because of my love for traditional music. I can say I can't play a "lick" = of Gospel, and it's not something I could shine at. Some like Contemporary = praise music, a lot do not. There are some here that probably will shame = organists for even considering an embracement of something other than = traditional music played on a Werkprinzip instrument with Kirnberger III = or some other-than-equal temperment.   As for "modern" Music in the church service, James Dale Holloway required = us at Pacific Lutheran University to take Jazz Theory. He felt that it was = a way of adding modern music in the blended service in a tasteful and = reverent manner. I adore jazz alot, and thats my mechanism for blending = things at St. Turibius.     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.  
(back) Subject: Re: Singing from a jumbotron From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:18:57 -0500   on 3/4/04 7:12 PM, Alan Freed at acfreed0904@earthlink.net wrote:   > On 3/4/04 6:34 PM, "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> wrote: > >> Question: on big screens are the notes up there, or just the words? >> > From what I've been told by many: Only the words (perhaps in color). = There > may be a few who offer the melody line. I've not heard of any that = offer > four-part harmony. > > Alan > Well, that's a big disadvantage. Our folks can at least tell if the notes go up or down and sing accordingly. They'd rather have the music than not. By the way, I don't think you can project even just the words, nor the music, for many hymns without copyright permission. Even if you have the hymnals. We've purchased a license from Augsburg to print music or words from the LBW in the bulletin occasionally; it's a lifetime license. For With One Voice, we have to shell out for] an annual license. The other broad-based license, I forget what its initials are, does not cover all hymns. You have call them up each week to see if the hymn you want to duplicate is covered. I wonder iff a lot of "projecting" churches are running afoul of the copyright law.     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: RE: Singing from a jumbotron From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:28:07 -0600   Randy has a couple of good points:   > I don't see how it would work in our church, though. There would have = to be > two screens, unless we placed the screen in front of the altar, which would > destroy the visual beauty of the sanctuary.   We have a similar issue. You could put one over the choir (which is off to the left), and one over a sacristy storage area (nice wooden wall). I refuse to let them put it near or in the organ. (Two towers.) http://www.htlutheran.org/organ.html Either side of it, though, would = work.   > Question: on big screens are the notes up there, or just the words?   I would think words only. You'd need something like Finale or Sibelius, = I'd think, to create the TIFF files (or whatever format you prefer) to insert, and then the words would be too small.     And, in some churches with LONG sanctuaries, you might have to have = screens mid-way down, right?   Jeff    
(back) Subject: RE: Gordon Young From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:27:38 -0800 (PST)   To me, most GY collections have great pieces in them. As Bob in Australia = put it, there are some trite pieces in some, but his music is mostly = tuneful and memorable. I remember at PLU I was on the play at chapel one = Friday. I was going to do a Langlais piece for postlude, but Campus = Ministry requested that I refrain and do GY's Jubilate from Preludes for = Worship. All was loved!       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.  
(back) Subject: Re: CCM and liturgy and Grace From: "3manual" <kml@mcihispeed.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:28:18 -0700   Greetings from again-snowy Colorado - we haven't yet been introduced, but = I have been following this discussion with much interest. This has apparently been a bone of contention for longer than we realize, and one = of my favorite perspectives comes from C. S. Lewis:   "There are two musical situations on which I think we can be confident = that a blessing rests. One is where a priest or an organist, himself a man of trained and delicate taste, humbly and charitably sacrifices his own (aesthetically right) desires and gives the people humble and coarser fare =   than he would wish, in a belief (even, as it may be, the erroneous belief) =   that he can thus bring them to God. The other is where the stupid and unmusical layman humbly and patiently, and above all silently, listens to music which he cannot, or cannot fully, appreciate, in the belief that it somehow glorifies God, and that if it does not edify him this must be his own defect. Neither such a High Brow nor such a Low Brow can be far out = of the way. To both, Church Music will have been a means of grace; not the music they have liked, but the music they have disliked. They have both offered, sacrificed, their taste in the fullest sense."   Kris Layton      
(back) Subject: Certain Organ apperiti and their first appearances. From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:37:43 -0800 (PST)   Ok some "organistic" conversation Who can think of unique stops and their first appearances and their = contribution to our repertoire. I can think of EMS and the Erzahler/Erz. Celeste dont know when he first = fashioned it tho. And all those lovely orchestral stops he invented. They = contribute so much to our lush pieces. I can once again think of the Trompeta Magna/ En chamade. Spanish = origins.invented by Juan Echevaria in 1649 (or 59). First appeared in the = USA at First Presbyterian Church in Kilgore, TX on their 1949 = Aeolian-Skinner. Great on lots of repertoire. I think Rob-Roy Peery was = Org-ChM there for a long time. What others? Im thinking that some stops came into play (no pun) with 18th = and 19th century American builders, such as Thomas Appleton, Hilborne = Roosevelt, Henry Pilcher's Sons, George Jardine and that liking. Let's open this up for tea time     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.  
(back) Subject: Re: Certain Organ apperiti...oops the apparati part From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:47:22 -0800 (PST)     The apperati part... What and when did the things that make our lives easier come into play? = Barker levers on trackers etc. Unique chest designs such as Austin also. I remember reading an old ad = from Austin that came out in the early 1900's. A mentor showed it to me. = It was talking about Austin consoles in contrast to other consoles. = "Austin Consoles have light unvaried action!" and "Austin Consoles have = stopkeys in line of vision." It's awesome for my generation of organists = to see stuff like that. Trivia! Which organ builder today makes consoles with luminated, push button = stops? AND What builder did consoles like that yester-year in the 1900's? Hint: We have been talking about the builder of the 2nd question some = already.I delete my emails alot, and thist very well may have been talked = about.     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.  
(back) Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:55:20 -0500   Dear Dave, It's bad enough we have to see that stupid fool in his silly lying commercials, please lets not contaminate this site. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McClellan" <dave_mcclellan@yahoo.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:45 PM Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house     > No replies needed - I'm off this list. > > The Supreme Court of the United States told the State > of Florida that if it wanted to recount the votes in > the 2000 election that would be just fine. But .. if > those votes were going to be recounted then ALL of the > votes would be recounted, not just those votes in > heavily Democrat areas, and the same standard would be > applied to the recount through out the state. Simply > put, if the State of Florida would recount all of the > votes using the same standards as to which votes > counted and which did not, fine. If the State wanted > to just count the votes where Democrats had a chance > of picking up some numbers, and if the State wanted to > apply different standards to different voting areas, > not fine. The Florida Supreme Court then decided to > stop the recount (damn that pesky equal protection > clause) and the Florida results were certified. > > Now . about this "African-Americans, senior Americans, > new Americans were deprived of their right to vote. > African-Americans 10 times greater than other > Americans in Florida" nonsense. Show us the proof! > Look, the U.S. Civil Rights commission held hearings > in Florida to investigate this baloney about blacks > being kept away from the polls in Florida. All of the > race warlords showed up to complain about the evil > tactics of Republicans during the election . but not > one of these race warlords could come up with one > single solitary living breathing duly registered black > voter in the entire State of Florida, from Pensacola > to Key West, not one single black voter who could say > that he or she was kept from the polls and denied > their right to cast their vote. NOT ONE! To this > very day neither Florida nor national Democrats have > been able to produce one single black Floridian who > was denied their opportunity to cast a legal vote > during in the 2000 election. So, Senator Lieberman, > can we give this race-baiting nonsense a rest? > > Oh, and by the way, Senator Lieberman. This might be > a good time to remind you that while the recount > fiasco was proceeding in Florida it was you and your > running mate, Al Gore, who shipped a few busloads of > attorneys to the State of Florida. They were assigned > to election offices in almost all Florida counties > with goal. That goal was to look at absentee ballots > from American men and women in uniform serving in our > armed forces overseas . and to do everything in their > power to see to it that those votes of our servicemen > didn't count. > > > There is no doubt in the world that our system of > government education is an unqualified disaster. Is > it at all possible that this is by design rather than > by happenstance? Our education system is controlled > by Democrats. Teacher's unions overwhelmingly vote > Democrat and about 90% of their political > contributions go to Democrat candidates. Now --- > another fact. The dumber you are; or, if you prefer, > the more ignorant you are, the more likely it is you > are going to vote Democrat. Can you see, then, that > Democrats have a vested interest in making sure that > our schools don't do the job? > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster > http://search.yahoo.com > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:58:13 -0500   Anyone who would say that they would not play an organ because it has = the name Roosevelt on it is nuts. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RMB10@aol.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house     >It means you should never play a Roosevelt organ, for one thing :-) = Are you so >embarrassed about your political persuasion that you can't = sign your name? > >Robert Lind   I'm the anonymous Republican....I just was in a rush when I was = posting and hit send before I signed my name. All you have to do is = look at the headers and see who the post is from, but if it concerns you = who it is, I'll sign the post this time.   Monty Bennett  
(back) Subject: Organ Recital in Detroit, Sunday March 21 From: "Donna R. Hollis" <donna@dc.ipmail.att.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:23:42 -0500   The Cathedral Cultural Series The Cathedral of the Most Blessed Sacrament 9844 Woodward Avenue, Detroit, MI 48202 313-865-6300   presents   A Spring Concert   featuring   James Kibbie, Organist   the only American to have won the International Organ Competition of the Prague Spring Festival in Czechoslovakia   performing works by Franck, Widor and Visser on both Cathedral organs   "He unfolded a torrential virtuosity, revealed in a storm of light."-Le Monde "Music does communicate, and never more so than when it is played with the impulse and eloquence Dr. Kibbie commands."-Musical Times   with   The Cathedral Singers Norah Duncan IV, Conductor   performing   Lux Aeterna by American-born composer Morten Lauridsen fashioned on texts from several different Latin sources, including the requiem mass, each containing a reference to Light.   "Lux Aeterna is an intimate work of quiet serenity centered around a universal symbol of hope, reassurance, goodness and illumination at all levels."- Morten Lauridsen   Sunday, March 21, 2004 at 3:00 p.m. at The Cathedral of the Most Blessed Sacrament   Tickets: $7.00 advance or $10.00 at the door   Tickets may be ordered by sending a self-addressed stamped envelope and a check or money order, payable to Cathedral Cultural Series, to The = Cathedral of the Most Blessed Sacrament, 9844 Woodward Ave., Detroit, MI 48202. = Please allow one week for delivery. Tickets may also be purchased from the Cathedral's parish office Monday through Friday from 9:30 a.m. to 4:30 = p.m.   This concert is made possible with support from the Michigan Council for Arts & Cultural Affairs, the National Endowment for the Arts and the Archdiocese of Detroit.   Posted by Donna R. Hollis          
(back) Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:25:32 -0600   Not wishing to engage in any controversy, and purely on a point of information, I would like to point out that Theodore Roosevelt was a Republican, and so as far as I know were his first cousins Hilborne and Franklin, the famous New York organ builders.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:21:37 EST   Dear John:   Teddy Roosevelt was also instrumental, as a conservationist, to begin the Dept. of the interior, and set aside places, like Yosemite Valley, and Yellowstone as pristine national parks. Later other presidents followed suit with the Grand Canyon and later parks and monuments. He was very familiar with the work of John Muir.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:35:11 EST   Survey: How many on this list purchased a new home with their tax refunds?   Let's get on with the subject... organs.   Seb  
(back) Subject: Re: Desiree - Bud? From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:41:39 EST   Are we REALLY interested in whether or not Bud and Desiree were separated = at birth?   I think more of us want to know who St. Turibius was, what their martyrdom =   was (if any), and the historical circumstances of their elevation to = sainthood.   Sebastian M. Gluck Temple Beth You'z My Woman Now Catfish Row Gershwin. Mississippi  
(back) Subject: Re: Desiree - Bud? From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:51:04 -0500   on 3/4/04 10:41 PM, TubaMagna@aol.com at TubaMagna@aol.com wrote:   > Are we REALLY interested in whether or not Bud and Desiree were = separated at > birth? > > I think more of us want to know who St. Turibius was, what their = martyrdom > was (if any), and the historical circumstances of their elevation to > sainthood. > > Sebastian M. Gluck > Temple Beth You'z My Woman Now > Catfish Row > Gershwin. Mississippi >   I wonder whether it's Saint Turibius of Mogroveio or Saint Turibius of Astorga. The former seems the more likeable of the two.     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: Re: Certain Organ apperiti and their first appearances. From: <Praestant@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:33:30 EST     In a message dated 4.3.04 8.38.44 PM, nicemusica@yahoo.com writes:     > I can once again think of the Trompeta Magna/=A0En chamade. Spanish=20 > origins.invented by Juan Echevaria in 1649 (or 59). First appeared in the=20= USA at First=20 > Presbyterian Church in Kilgore, TX >=20   I thought there was a church in Calif that had one earlier than the Kilgore=20 instrument.    
(back) Subject: Re: Certain Organ apperiti...oops the apparati part From: <Praestant@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:35:54 EST   In a message dated 4.3.04 8.48.34 PM, nicemusica@yahoo.com writes:   > Which organ builder today makes consoles with luminated, push button stops= ? >=20 Several. Glatter-G=F6tz, Rieger, Ontko come to mind.   > What builder did consoles like that yester-year in the 1900's? >=20 Estey.    
(back) Subject: Re: Certain Organ apperiti and their first appearances. From: "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:07:29 -0600   There was a small 1917 Los Angeles Art organ in Hayward, CA at All = Saint's Episcopal that had a Trompette en Chamade .... this is the first = example that I am aware of in America. =20   Sand Lawn Praestant@aol.com wrote.   I thought there was a church in Calif that had one earlier than the = Kilgore instrument.  
(back) Subject: Re: Certain Organ apperiti and their first appearances. From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 00:09:46 EST   Hi Sandy:   Would the old Jardine's of the last centrury, lately of St. Pat's and St. George's in NYC qualify as Trumpets enchamade although hooded? but in the open? These were rather fanciful pipe displays and it's too bad they don't still exist somewhere. These were from around 1880 or so.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: RE: Singing from a jumbotron From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:19:44 -0600   We've purchased a license from Augsburg to print music or words from the = LBW in the bulletin occasionally; it's a lifetime license.   Randy,   Check with Augsburg again. They have a license now for like $350 which covers not only all of LBW and WOV, but also replaces the need for the = CCLI. I'm not sure if it's lifetime or annually renewable, though. I was considering getting it, but if it's renewed annually, the church couldn't = go for that in this year's budget. I *think* it's called Music for Worship, = or something like that.   Anyone know? Or, if you check it out, please let ME know....   Thanks! Jeff    
(back) Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:21:28 +0800   Do doll houses count if they have a 12th scale reed organ for Barbie to = play?   ----- Original Message ----- From: TubaMagna@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:35:11 EST To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: We have an anonymous Repub in the house   > Survey: > How many on this list purchased a new home with their tax refunds? > > Let's get on with the subject... organs. -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Re: Desiree - Bud? From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:14:32 +0800   St Who?? ----- Original Message ----- From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Desiree - Bud?     > I think more of us want to know who St. Turibius was, what their = martyrdom > was (if any), and the historical circumstances of their elevation to sainthood. >    
(back) Subject: Re: St.Turibius From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 02:28:21 -0500   At 02:14 AM 3/5/2004, it was written: > > I think more of us want to know who St. Turibius was, what their = martyrdom > > was (if any), and the historical circumstances of their elevation to >sainthood.   If you go to the following URL, the history of St. Turibius is there to = see:   http://www.tntt.org/vni/tlieu/saints/St0323.htm   It always amazes me that so often the answers to many of the questions asked can be found by a simple Google search!   Have a look,   Bob Conway