PipeChat Digest #4354 - Monday, March 8, 2004
 
Re: Organ samples for electronic instruments (was: Johannus Organs)
  by "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: Organ samples for electronic instruments (was: Johannus Organs)
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Memphis Kimball
  by "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net>
RE: Organ samples for electronic instruments (was: Johannus Organs)
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: Disney Hall organ appearance / Sound
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
From Neander to Neanderthal
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Off Topic: greetings
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
Re: Illuminated stop controls
  by "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Re:Off Topic: greetings
  by "dballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br>
Re: That Doublet
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Organ samples for electronic instruments (was: Johannus Organs) Rumor
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
a ruffatti in beloit and disney hall
  by "james nerstheimer" <enigma1685@hotmail.com>
RE: OK, here's a fun question:
  by "Dick Meckstroth" <support@opensystemsorgans.com>
RE: Ugly
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: Ugly
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: Subject: Re: Re: Jumbotrons and such
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: Disney Hall organ appearance
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
RE: Disney Hall organ appearance
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: WINTHROP UNIV AEOLIAN-SKINNER WATER DAMAGE
  by "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org>
Re: Disney Hall organ appearance
  by "Stephen Best" <sbest@borg.com>
RE: Ugly
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: OK, here's a fun question:
  by "Nelson Denton" <ndenton@cogeco.ca>
Re: OK, here's a fun question
  by "Peter Rodwell" <iof@ctv.es>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Organ samples for electronic instruments (was: Johannus Organs) From: "F. Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 05:28:07 -0600   Hello, Cole, et al: > Is there any truth to the rumor that Johannus Organs use > only a "one cycle" sample for their stops? None, whatsoever. Johannus uses not only "long" samples, but was one of the first to offer a unique sample for every note in every rank. Check out their Monarke custom offerings. Also, if you wish, you may download an example of the new Platinum Editiion voicing on the Rembrandt series by visiting my website at www.dorianorgans.com As always, MP3 lacks some of the fine-definitiion of the CD format, but it will give you pretty good hint at what Johannus can do. F. Richard Burt .    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ samples for electronic instruments (was: Johannus Organs) From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 06:43:58 EST   In a message dated 3/8/2004 6:29:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, effarbee@verizon.net writes:   > Johannus uses not only "long" samples, > but was one of the first to offer a unique sample for every > note in every rank. Check out their Monarke custom > offerings. >   Everyone uses longer samples now--everyone.   but remember that the higher you go in a box organ the better the stuff. Monarke Organs are far superior than any thing marked with the J brand. The 900 series Rodgers are far better than the 800 and 700. The COS 500 series is much better with a lot more memory then the 400 = series. The Ahlborn-Galanti Chronicler series is better with longer samples and = more memory and so on then their SL series.   It boils down to what sounds good to you. What company is selling smoke and mirrors. What company offers realistic prices. And who offers service comparable to Mr. Burt.   dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Memphis Kimball From: "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 06:16:03 -0600   From the fellow who along with Bill Oberg, who used to service it,it, it = is in a place where circus animals were in the room and their is excrement = over parts of it. I seen some pictures Marlin had taken after de-installing = it. James James Grebe Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair Artisan of Wood WWW.JamesGrebe.com 1526 Raspberry Lane Arnold, MO 63010 pianoman@accessus.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 8:53 PM Subject: Memphis Kimball     > Yep......the one in storage.......has gotten water damage, = alas........but > what a magnificent beast! > > Dennis Steckley > & A Six-Pack of Cats > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >      
(back) Subject: RE: Organ samples for electronic instruments (was: Johannus Organs) From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:27:22 -0000   Those mp3's sound very fine Richard, especially the Holy Holy Holy one!   Will Light Coventry UK     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of F. Richard Burt   www.dorianorgans.com As always, MP3 lacks some of the fine-definitiion of the CD format, but it will give you pretty good hint at what Johannus can do. F. Richard Burt      
(back) Subject: Re: Disney Hall organ appearance / Sound From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:27:43 EST   I myself do wonder WHY it was designed to look as it does. It is = certainly not a "traditional" disposition of pipework by any means. Some of the big =   pedal pipes look warped, for lack of a better term. Wouldn't a facade = with parallel towers and shiny, highly reflective tin or zinc pipes with more = modern enclosures have looked a bit more dignified? It might sound like a = million bucks, but my first reaction to the photos I have seen is that it looks like it's =   been blasted by artillery fire and that it is melting and pulling apart = from itself.   Scott F. Foppiano Cantantibus organis Caecilia Domino decantabat.    
(back) Subject: From Neander to Neanderthal From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 08:30:43 -0500   on 3/7/04 9:54 PM, ProOrgo53@aol.com at ProOrgo53@aol.com wrote:   In a message dated 3/5/2004 5:19:03 PM Central Standard Time, runyonr@muohio.edu writes: I usually include notes about the hymns (once I went off on a tangent involving Joachim Neander and Neanderthal Man), about the composers of the organ voluntaries and about the anthem. Randy - I join the voices of many who would LOVE to read your "discourse" connecting J. Neander and the Neanderthan Man ---- just for the sheer fun o= f it. Please? Purty please? =20 Dale in Missouri   I am happy to oblige. Here's the relevant section, from my bulletin notes for Sept. 28, 2003:   The music to the hymn =B3Open Now Thy Gates of Beauty=B2 was written by Joachim Neander (1650-1680). His name suggests a riddle: How did a very old man get his name from a certain =B3new man=B2? If that seems a bit odd, let me put it this way: What is the connection between Neander and Neanderthals? The answer is that, first, Joachim=B9s family was originally named not Neander but Neumann, which in German of course means =B3new man.=B2 His grandfather changed it to Neander, which is Neumann translated into Greek, because that was a fashionable thing to do at the time. Secondly, when Joachim Neander was principal of a grammar school in D=FCsseldorf in 1674-79, he used to wander the secluded D=FCssel River valley, a deep ravine between rock faces and forests, with numerous caves, grottos and waterfalls. There= , he would sing his music and recite his poems to the rocks and trees, but also hold gatherings and religious services. Because of its association with him, the area came in time to be known as the Neander Valley--in German, the Neanderthal. So when the fossil of a thick-browed prehistoric man was discovered there in 1856, it was called Neanderthal man, giving Joachim the dubious distinction of being the only writer of religious melodies ever to have a fossil hominid named after him. An article in the Scientific American in October 1999 points out that recent discoveries have necessitated a revision of the original perception of Neanderthal man as being closer to apes than homo sapiens. New evidence suggests that Neanderthals coexisted with homo sapiens for some six thousand years in the Europe of thirty millennia ago, and there may well have been not only cultural interchange but some interbreeding. Thus Joachim Neander may have been related to the Neanderthals in more than name. The article points out= , intriguingly, that =B3judging from floral offerings in deliberate burial sites=B2 Neanderthal man =B3may have had some concept of the hereafter.=B2     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu          
(back) Subject: Off Topic: greetings From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:35:05 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Greetings to all ladies on this List on International Women's Day, March = 08 2004   Yours Andres    
(back) Subject: Re: Illuminated stop controls From: "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:26:40 -0500     On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:00:15 -0000 "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> writes: <Snip>. Richard was telling > me that they had been having some trouble with those illuminated > stops on > the Classical Console. The only way they could repair them when the > bulbs > went was to replace them with a tiny lamp which was designed for > surgeon's > instruments which they either poke up or down you to have a > look-see! These > had to have long wires soldered to them to replace the lamps which > Compton > used, which are now an obsolete design. <snip>   If anyone should be in need of such lamps, there is a company here that makes light bulbs (ie lamps) as small as a grain of rice !     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY   ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!  
(back) Subject: Re:Off Topic: greetings From: "dballesteros" <dballesteros@uol.com.br> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:16:18 -0300   Thank you very much.   Domitila > ---------- In=EDcio da mensagem original ----------- > De: <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Para: <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Cc: <piporg-l@listserv.albany.edu> > Data: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:35:05 -0400 > Assunto: Off Topic: greetings > Andres Gunther > agun@telcel.net.ve > > Greetings to all ladies on this List on International Women' s Day, March 08 > 2004 > > Yours > Andres > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & rela ted topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >   --- Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela. AntiPop-up UOL - =C9 gr=E1tis! http://antipopup.uol.com.br    
(back) Subject: Re: That Doublet From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:16:17 EST   Yes, an oddball stop name to be sure. I have seen it used by American builders to indicate a Fifteenth, which I always label as such. This one = is slightly broader scale, but does not come off as a recorder or piccolo, hence the compromise name.   Seb  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ samples for electronic instruments (was: Johannus Organs) Rumor From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:21:20 -0800 (PST)   Hi Ross and All, I've been Yahooed again so never received the start of this thread and for = all I know, not all the replies. I hope I can be helpful on this. I too have checked out Hauptwerke and = have emailed it's creator regarding sampling a little .... Martin emailed = me when he saw a long running "dissection" of how Allen generates sound in = its Rennaisance organs ..... on the Yahoo Allen Owners Group. If you (and = others are interested) the archives of the group contain much detail on = things like sampling rates, number of samples per voice, etc. I have not run accross this kind of detail for any other E-org builder so = can only relate what I know from my experience. I am also excited by this developement (Hauptwerke) since I enjoy voicing = more than playing ..... so will get my next PC with it in mind. Regarding the rumor you mentioned and also comments from Dale and Richard = .... here is my take on this. I own a Johannus R3900 that is about 1.5 years old, so have fairly = current experience. This is a stock model, not one of their higher end = Monarke series. I also have owned 5 Allens including a Renn 370. I have = played and almost bought a Walker Custom but am familiar with their work = only up to around 8 years ago. My experience is that: AOC has the shortest samples, sampled at 48KHZ for the Renn series and = also the fewest number per stop. Even the most expensive models such as = the R380 differ very little in terms of the samples used across the = various models. In fact they make a big deal out of this. Rodgers has longer samples ..... sampled at the same rate at AOC but uses = more per stop on their larger instruments than AOC. Dale is correct that = there is a big difference between the 900 series and the smaller organs. Johannus samples at 96KHZ, including the attack and decay and on my = instrument averages 16 samples per stop. I believe their smallest and = cheapist organs have fewer samples per stop but they are the same samples = used in the larger stock instruments. If you get a Monarke, it is one sample per note. I do not know the size = of these samples ..... my organ, like all Johannus organs has 2 different = sets of samples for each stop .... they call them the Baroque and = Romantic Intontations .... so going by numbers alone, the Johannus will = have many more samples in their stock models than Rodgers or Allen. Due to = the size and number of samples for the Monarke series, these organs do not = have a second Intonation. I will disagree with Dale on this: I would stack my R3900 against a = Monarke any day ...... you don't have to spend mega bucks with Johannus = to get a fantastic sounding organ. Bob Walker's published comments going way back to the early 90's indicated = that he sampled at 120 (something, 6 or 5) KHZ, every note for a rank. In = the early 90's he was using "long" samples of around 9 seconds. I have no = current info. on what is being done now. There is a prototype organ in NYC where the samples are around 30 seconds = for each note. With all this in mind, I would recommend that, if it is possible, get as = much info as you can on sampling as utilized by the Euro builders as = opposed to Allen and Rodgers. AOC at this stage is ready for a major = upgrade in its technology and will probably let little if anything out for = public consumption. I don't see too much happening with the Roland owned = Rodgers since it has never been a money maker for Roland. Ahlburne Galanti, Prestige, Johannus continuely "push the envelope" = regarding sample rates and memory usage (fighting for market share)so I = think this is where you will find the most being done. Phoenix may fall = into this category too, I just don't have any experience with them. Hope this is helpfull. Lastly relating to "smoke and mirrors" and rumors. It has been my = experience that the dealers for Euro E-orgs (especially Johannus ... that = is why I own one) are not as "cut throat" as the 2 American "giants". One = in particular, probably started the rumor you mentioned as they see their = sales shrinking as Johannus's expands. I think the Euro builders have a = different way of doing business and looking at profits ...... so I think = you will get more accurate information regarding what their technologies = do and don't do. Have Fun !!!! Matt         --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.  
(back) Subject: a ruffatti in beloit and disney hall From: "james nerstheimer" <enigma1685@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:13:23 -0600   There's a Ruffatti in Beloit? That's only 60-some miles from me. Which church? I gotta go see!   I found the sound clip from SCPR most interesting. The 8'4' Priincipals sound a lot like ours at St.Paul's=97the 8' very dark and the 4' of a = medium brightness. We will be revoicing our Great on slightly higher w.p. in the =   next few weeks which I think is what it's been asking me for the last 9 years. For some odd reason it was lower than the rest of the organ at 2 3/4". We're going to try it on 3" like the other divisions. I'm = expecting quite a difference. The anticipation here can be cut with a knife!   jim   O):^)   _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/    
(back) Subject: RE: OK, here's a fun question: From: "Dick Meckstroth" <support@opensystemsorgans.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:14:12 -0500   I'd take my home organ. It has web access.   Dick    
(back) Subject: RE: Ugly From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:47:56 -0600   Maybe St. Paul's Cathedral, Boston.   Peter     Okay, here's another of those silly questions: what's the visually=20 ugliest organ you've ever seen, that didn't get that way at the hands=20 of vandals, etc.   Kenneth L. Sybesma Choirmaster and Organist Church of the Advent, Westbury NY Temple Organist & Director of Children's Music Temple Or Elohim, Jericho NY          
(back) Subject: Re: Ugly From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:03:20 -0800   Visually, St. Mary the Virgin, NYC, but one seldom sees it for the clouds of incense (chuckle) ... the drawing of the case that was never built is LOVELY.   Bud   Storandt, Peter wrote:   > Maybe St. Paul's Cathedral, Boston. > > Peter > > > Okay, here's another of those silly questions: what's the visually > ugliest organ you've ever seen, that didn't get that way at the hands > of vandals, etc. > > Kenneth L. Sybesma > Choirmaster and Organist > Church of the Advent, Westbury NY > Temple Organist & Director of Children's Music > Temple Or Elohim, Jericho NY > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: RE: Subject: Re: Re: Jumbotrons and such From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:02:13 -0600   My wife and I had the same experience at Charlie's church a couple of years ago. It remains one of the most memorable Sundays of my life.   Peter   It was really GREAT, and despite the fact that it was three hours and ten minutes in length, I would go again. You should be able to find that posting, if interested, in the PipOrg-L Archives. Everything Charlie says is true - at least about that!! It is a warm and wonderful place, and he is a big part of that.   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler - writing from New Orleans. Home on Monday.      
(back) Subject: Re: Disney Hall organ appearance From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:04:12 -0800 (PST)   Ok yall. Yes I love the appearance of the Disney organ...I have said that = several times. But, it's possible that they designer was requested that the organ should = not look like a church organ. Thats what happened at Beneroya in Seattle. = They specifically requested that Fisk NOT make the organ look like it is a = church organ, or for religious purposes.       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60649 http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you=92re looking for faster.  
(back) Subject: RE: Disney Hall organ appearance From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:09:04 -0600   That's an under-estimate, I'd say.   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Mike Gettelman Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 8:41 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Disney Hall organ appearance       "T.Desiree' Hines" wrote:   > This might not set well with some people but Imma say > it any way MMMMMMMMMM The Disney Organ! [Image] >   Anyone care to set up an online poll where folks from this group can go to vote their side of this debate? My money says the proponents outnumber the detractors by 10 to 1.   Mike   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org          
(back) Subject: Re: WINTHROP UNIV AEOLIAN-SKINNER WATER DAMAGE From: "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:10:32 -0500   > Incidentally, George removed the behemoth 4-manual Mars Hill console = just > two weeks ago to refinish it & to install a Peterson ICS-4000 solid = state > multiplex system, including MIDI, Combination Action, and automatic = coffee > maker :) .   What about the "Scotch 15 ans" stop?   TommyLee ::ducking & running::    
(back) Subject: Re: Disney Hall organ appearance From: "Stephen Best" <sbest@borg.com> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 12:23:41 -0500   For once there's something I agree with Desiree about 100%. I think the design of the Disney organ is truly inspired, as forward looking as the unique design of the building, completely in keeping with Frank Gehry's architectural planning. It's always surprising how the reaction to something different can be so strongly negative. Anyone recall the often vituperative comments that were made about Walter Holtkamp Sr.'s "show it all" designs? Toda we look at organs like the famous one at Syracuse University as commonplace...but back in 1950, this was pretty "far out" design! I say bravo to the folks who insisted on an organ to match the building. I can't wait to hear it!   Steve Best in Utica, NY   T.Desiree' Hines wrote:   > Ok yall. Yes I love the appearance of the Disney organ...        
(back) Subject: RE: Ugly From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:00:37 -0600   Yes, they both have the Garage Sale look.   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of quilisma@cox.net Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:03 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Ugly   Visually, St. Mary the Virgin, NYC, but one seldom sees it for the=20 clouds of incense (chuckle) ... the drawing of the case that was never=20 built is LOVELY.   Bud   Storandt, Peter wrote:   > Maybe St. Paul's Cathedral, Boston. >=20 > Peter >=20 >=20 > Okay, here's another of those silly questions: what's the visually=20 > ugliest organ you've ever seen, that didn't get that way at the hands=20 > of vandals, etc. >=20 > Kenneth L. Sybesma > Choirmaster and Organist > Church of the Advent, Westbury NY > Temple Organist & Director of Children's Music > Temple Or Elohim, Jericho NY >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >=20 >=20 >=20     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org          
(back) Subject: Re: OK, here's a fun question: From: "Nelson Denton" <ndenton@cogeco.ca> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:20:56 -0500   I wouldn't mind not having electricity if the organ came with it's own = bevy of nubile female organ pumpers.   That reminds me of the movie "The Piano" where a square piano sits = neglected on a stormy beach in Australia for months without getting the slightest = damage. LOL!   Nelson    
(back) Subject: Re: OK, here's a fun question From: "Peter Rodwell" <iof@ctv.es> Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:31:27 +0100   I'd take the Atlantic City monster to my desert island. Then I could ward off boredom by trying to get it all to work, while using some of the largest pipes as living room, bedroom, etc. And of course I could train a few hundred monkeys to pump the bellows.   I suppose it would have to be a fairly large desert island, though...   Peter.