PipeChat Digest #4365 - Friday, March 12, 2004
 
RE: use of the organ during Lent in Roman Catholic churches
  by "J.Pringle" <jpp@eltham-college.org.uk>
RE: use of the organ during Lent in Roman Catholic churches
  by "cnash cnash" <cnash@mail.fbcaiken.org>
RE: Sheet music compilations (both feet)
  by "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com>
RE: Strange phenomenon - Gluey, glazed flaking rubber cloth
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
RE: use of the organ during Lent in Roman Catholic churches
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
Power Biggs
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
RE: Sheet music compilations (both feet)
  by <steveweb413@nerstrand.net>
Re: Sheet music compilations (both feet)
  by "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net>
Re: Power Biggs
  by "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net>
Re: use of the organ during Lent in Roman Catholic churches
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: Episcopal hymns
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
RE: OK, here's a fun question:
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
RE: Sheet music compilations (both feet)
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
open organ discussions OK
  by <kealypaul@mediaexcellence.com>
RE: Fast and Loud Lent Music
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Gesualdo: Sacred Music for Easter
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
 

(back) Subject: RE: use of the organ during Lent in Roman Catholic churches From: "J.Pringle" <jpp@eltham-college.org.uk> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:19:01 -0000   Sir   Though they must be in the Lenten season, are Sundays actually in Lent? = T the back of my mind I remember a priest saying that Sundays are never = days of fasting.   Regards   Jan  
(back) Subject: RE: use of the organ during Lent in Roman Catholic churches From: "cnash cnash" <cnash@mail.fbcaiken.org> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:58:33 -0500   YOU are absolutely right...Sundays are "off days." I play SOME lenten = music...but not an overwhelming amount. Sundays are days which you are to = celebrate the resurrection of our Lord.           ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "J.Pringle" <jpp@eltham-college.org.uk> Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:19:01 -0000   >Sir > >Though they must be in the Lenten season, are Sundays actually in Lent? = T the back of my mind I remember a priest saying that Sundays are never = days of fasting. > >Regards > >Jan >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >  
(back) Subject: RE: Sheet music compilations (both feet) From: "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:15:20 -0500   Has anyone tried the complete editions found on CD?? It looks like that would be the way to go -- By the entire works of JSB or others for $19.95 and print out just what you need.....   Tom Hoehn, Organist Roaring 20's Pizza & Pipes, Ellenton, FL (substitute - 4/42 Wurlitzer) First United Methodist Church, Clearwater, FL (4/9?- = Rodgers/Ruffati/Wicks) Manasota/OATOS/HiloBay/CIC-ATOS/VotS-ATOS/DTOS http://theatreorgans.com/tomhoehn   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Glenda Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:51 PM To: 'PipeChat' Subject: RE: Sheet music compilations (both feet)     Steve, this may not work, but once I was looking for a volume of Bossi's works, and an organ music seller (I think it was Lois Fyfe at the time) found me a used edition at a reduced price, because the stuff I was looking for was out of print at the time. It is possible you can get copies of the old Buxtehude volumes that way, or when an organist sells out his collection over the list.   I have several of the Bareinreiter editions of the Pachelbel, and was somewhat disappointed with them - there's not much in them for the money. However, the moment I gave away or sold them I would need them for some reason, so I hang on to them.   I want to think that Cabezon's most popular works can be obtained in a volume of "Obras piezas sueltas" (I think - I'm sorry, but I fought the good fight again today, and my memory is shot), edited by Guy Bovet. Someone here on the list can tell us (again) which volume. I have the Lidon volume, and it cost me something like $40 a few years back. Sorry. I would buy the Cabezon myself if I did more organ-playing and less windmill-tilting.   Note: The Lidon is manuals-only, but some neat stuff. Haven't perused the Cabezon volume personally.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of giwro@adelphia.net Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:08 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Sheet music compilations (both feet)   If you want to try some free stuff out:   http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/multimedia/music-scores/freemusic/   Download all you want!   Jonathan     > From: steveweb413@nerstrand.net > Date: 2004/03/11 Thu PM 02:16:35 PST > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Subject: Sheet music compilations (both feet) > > My sheet music library is limited, and I would like to have material from a greater variety of composers. > > Cabezon, Buxtehude, Pachelbel > > I don't think it is a wise use of money to go out and purchase, say, the 8 volume set of Cabezon's complete organ works, and the similarly voluminous collections of complete works by Buxtehude, Pachelbel, and other similar composers. > > Yet I'm suspicious of compilations because I've seen too much material out there that is edited down for one-footed organists or manuals only. > > Any recommendations? > > Steve > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org         "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org            
(back) Subject: RE: Strange phenomenon - Gluey, glazed flaking rubber cloth From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:16:33 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   I know the phenomenon. From my experience, rubber cloth is susceptible to high temperatures, humidity, chemicals and aging. Exposure to warm air = from the blower plus air pollution elements as suggested could be the cause of the failing curtain valves. I gave up rubber cloth since long ago because it's not resistant to the tropic climate and switched to vinyl cloth, = which sometimes doesn't accomplish the expectancies either- right now back to = good old cabretta. Interesting however is that Cavaille-Coll's concussion devices are made of rubber cloth that is better conserved than rubber clothes from the 20th = cty up.   Yours Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.    
(back) Subject: RE: use of the organ during Lent in Roman Catholic churches From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:21:44 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Dear List,   Bud is 100% right. That's the rules and I stick to them as far as I can. Just to explain how things are done in my country: Venezuelan church (and perhaps other churches in Hispano-american countries) get some = concessions. One of them -a quite dangeruous one :)- is that these basic rules can be adjusted to "local pastoral requirements". Hm. In several places, = and by certain parishes, that could be taken as a license to do what they = want, of course.   Okay. In Lent I avoid the use of Mixture and reeds and don't play the = final voluntary. If I play some interlude, only in minor key and 8' & 4' stop, = box closed. But on the Holy Triduum Days I face "Pastoral requirements" that make it impossible to stick to the given rules. In our church, on Holy Thursday and Good Friday, if you throw a needle from the choir gallery it won't reach the church floor, *crowded* with people as the church is. When our church has "full house" accoustic becomes dead. Without handsome organ accompaniment (not only a few dull chords) singing would become entirily impossible. The ritus of Adoration of the Holy Cross lasts more than 30 minutes. With the best will we cannot sing for so long time and must make organ interludes. This sems to be done since colony times, judging by the lots of "Good = Friday music" by our early composers.... Nevertheless I was quite shocked yesterday when our Vicar started a "Happy-clappy" praise tune after the Tantum Ergo- this doesn't fit with *any* "Pastoral Requirement" IMHO!   > Yes, Dupre wrote the Stations of the Cross, and Tournemire wrote the > Seven Last Words (is it?), but neither of those would have been played > at MASS. The Stations were played at the Stations SERVICE; the Seven > Last Words ... hmmm ... I don't know if they were played at Tre Ore on > Good Friday or not ...   Perhaps they were performed at the Seven Last Words Meditation on Good Friday.   To finish, a little anecdote: When I started as liturgical Organist in my parish (my, this is 24 years ago now!!) I happily told the parish at the first Holy Week: "So I get my day off on Good Friday, don't I?"- The = parish roared with laughter. "Young man, Good Friday will be your *busiest day* = in all the Holy Week!", he said. Reasons explained above <G>. Last year I submitted to this List a mini-series relating how "Semana Santa in Caracas" is celebrated in our pluricultural society where Sevillean Holy Week Traditions got mixed with ancient african and Indian rites. This material is still available in ..txt format for the interested. Feel free to mail me in private.   Cheers Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.    
(back) Subject: Power Biggs From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:36:03 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Hi folks, In these days is Mr. E. Power Biggs' death anniversary- 27 years. Let's remember him- and pray that some day digital remasterings of all his fine performances will be available.   Yours Andres    
(back) Subject: RE: Sheet music compilations (both feet) From: <steveweb413@nerstrand.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:11:22 -0700   I have avoided these because I find it frustrating to play from a pile of = loose sheets. Particularly when playing through a bunch of stuff for = sightreading practice or to try to find something new to play, it is a = hassle.   Might be the way to go when looking for one or two specific pieces, = though.   Steve   > Has anyone tried the complete editions found on CD?? It looks like that > would be the way to go -- By the entire works of JSB or others for > $19.95 > and print out just what you need.....    
(back) Subject: Re: Sheet music compilations (both feet) From: "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:58:05 -0600   Hi Tom,   I have these particular CD's. The only problem with the JSB CD is missing pages! The d minor Trio is just one example that comes to mind... I also have the Peters and B-H "Urtext" complete sets, and Widor-Schweitzer (for teaching purposes) which are very good, though the W-S Edition is somwhat incomplete. It is much easier reading though. I have several of the = Dover Editions (Buxtehude, Sweelinck, Bach) as well. The Dover Editions are = much less practical due to layout and format ... I tend to photo copy excerpts from them.   Tim   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:15 AM Subject: RE: Sheet music compilations (both feet)     > Has anyone tried the complete editions found on CD?? It looks like that > would be the way to go -- By the entire works of JSB or others for = $19.95 > and print out just what you need..... > > Tom Hoehn, Organist > Roaring 20's Pizza & Pipes, Ellenton, FL (substitute - 4/42 Wurlitzer) > First United Methodist Church, Clearwater, FL (4/9?- Rodgers/Ruffati/Wicks) > Manasota/OATOS/HiloBay/CIC-ATOS/VotS-ATOS/DTOS > http://theatreorgans.com/tomhoehn       --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.616 / Virus Database: 395 - Release Date: 3/8/2004    
(back) Subject: Re: Power Biggs From: "Octaaf" <octaaf@charter.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:59:16 -0600   Amen to that Andres.   Tim (ducking under his desk!)   ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org>; <piporg-l@listserv.albany.edu> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:36 AM Subject: Power Biggs     > Andres Gunther > agun@telcel.net.ve > > Hi folks, > In these days is Mr. E. Power Biggs' death anniversary- 27 years. > Let's remember him- and pray that some day digital remasterings of all = his > fine performances will be available. > > Yours > Andres > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.616 / Virus Database: 395 - Release Date: 3/8/2004    
(back) Subject: Re: use of the organ during Lent in Roman Catholic churches From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:27:17 -0800   You must have missed the annual food-fight about THAT over on Anglican-Music (grin). The number of days of Lent has varied over the centuries ... people might be surprised to learn that "Forty Days And Forty Nights" wasn't always fixed in stone; some of the Church Fathers held that Sundays were included; others not. What we're left with at the moment is a weird in-between state: purple or unbleached muslin vestments, no alleluia or Gloria in excelsis, but no fasting either.   The Eastern Orthodox, who are usually right about such things, hold that EVERY Sunday is a "little Easter", and sing alleluia straight through.   Cheers,   Bud   J.Pringle wrote: > Sir > > Though they must be in the Lenten season, are Sundays actually in Lent? = T the back of my mind I remember a priest saying that Sundays are never = days of fasting. > > Regards > > Jan > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: RE: Episcopal hymns From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:29:54 -0500   Malcolm Wechsler writes:   > When I saw "Hermann" for "Dear Lord and Father of Mankind," I thought, = I know that tune. It really is superior to "Rest," and the clued-in choir was prepared to lead, and lead they = did.   It may be superior in a vacuum. However, isn't this another example of = a melody traditionally associated with Christmas being wrenched away for = a penitential season or text? Bach's chorale prelude in Orgelbuechlein = is in the Christmas section and is downright bubbly. I never felt that = it fit the words for "Dear Lord and Father of Mankind" at all and it = seemed a rather off-the-wall choice. As I recall (agreeing with you = actually) I didn't mind using the tune "Rest" even in the throes of my = angry-young-man's general aversion to Victoriana.   >Is there not some value in the accumulated love of a tune that we = might find a little less than matching our sophisticated ideals. I think, as a musician, you can hardly not love Repton, but "Dear Lord and Father of Mankind" really cries out for "Rest," in most of our American = congregations   Certainly. Another example of such cognitive dissonance is "Rejoice, ye = pure in heart." I love Dirksen's tune Vineyard Haven, which he wrote = especially for this hymn as used at John Allin's enthronement as = Presiding Bishop, enough to listen to it all day. But I'm also fond of = "Marion", the familiar tune at least in the U.S., and not just to = Episcopalians. This, too, is sturdy and uplifting and has considerable = melodic, rhythmic, and harmonic interest. I see nothing wrong with it = at all.   It's rather painful when we have two good tunes, must pick one and = reject the other. I wonder if we really must. Has anyone managed to = use them successfully in alternation in a single congregation? In any = case, it's some comfort to step back and be rational about it: if a = hymnal gives two tunes for a hymn, isn't it better if they're *both* = good than if only one is good? I sense a more tolerant and open-minded = attitude in congregations than in the past. As far as the Episcopal = church goes, I wonder whether the Hymnal 1982's sensible practice of = giving variant tunes separate hymn numbers, rather than older hymnals' = "435 first tune, second tune" has conduced to this. It may be a = pastoral benefit as well as a logistical simplification. =20   Speaking of "Repton", this is the name of one of the better-known = English public schools. The tune is in unison. Quite a few admirable = unison hymn-tunes were composed especially with public-school chapels in = mind. The hymnal _Songs of Praise_, which perhaps could be seen as a = broad-church counterpart to the high-church _English Hymnal_, was = popular with schools and contained many of these. It has been said that = when four or five hundred teenage boys get going on them, the effect = is/was uniquely impressive melodies. They useta could sing the roof off = even *without* amplifiers and banks of loudspeakers :-) Does anyone = know if "Repton" is an example of this genre? I expect so.      
(back) Subject: RE: OK, here's a fun question: From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:44:29 -0500   >What single organ would you choose to be stranded on a desert island=20 with (presuming a suitable building, etc.)?   Cathedral of Saint John the Divine (after $6-7 million and all the work = needed to return it to good condition).   Paul      
(back) Subject: RE: Sheet music compilations (both feet) From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:47:17 -0500   steveweb413@nerstrand.net wrote:   > My sheet music library is limited, and I would like to have material = from a greater variety of composers. >=20 > Cabezon, Buxtehude, Pachelbel     Kalmus had four volumes each of Buxtehude and of Pachelbel for probably = about $2.50 each when I was a student. =20   I'm still happy with the two-volume Peters anthology of Buxtehude music, = edited by Hermann Keller, that I acquired in high school in the 1960s. = Vol. 1, free pieces, is more important than Vol. 2, chorale-based = pieces. Miriam Duncan once said that this edition is not good and that = Keller himself eventually became "ashamed" of them, but I can't cite any = details. As you may know, Buxtehude wrote in tabulature, which makes = for a large amount of conjecture as to what some pitches and rhythms he = actually intended. I take this circumstance as an argument for a = comprehensive library's having several editions of Buxtehude.      
(back) Subject: open organ discussions OK From: <kealypaul@mediaexcellence.com> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:54:38 GMT   Although some complain of discussing church music style on this list, it = is good to share the variety of worship style, because there IS a variety of style out there.   I am writing from a hotel in Sacramento, CA, on a workshop speaking tour from San Francisco through the Central counties. I appreciate knowing of = the various installations out there as I have opportunity to visit and hear various organs.   Because I read of Charlie Lester=92s organ ministry, I was able to visit = his church awhile back, and fortunately I chose a day where he presented an afternoon organ concert I was able to attend. This list made that outstanding concert, as well as his performance in worship possible. That was an unforgettable day. His worship was actually crowded with = worshippers who participated in an eclectic variety of the music Charlie presented. I believe that, other than Charlie, I was the only white boy in the = audience, but this here Irish boy was warmly welcomed by the entire congregation.   It was good to see his influence at work. I never would have known of that =   without this Internet discussion. Because of my Internet friendship with Alan Freed, I was able to meet him in the theatre district of Manhattan, = and play his organ at St. Luke=92s. It was a highlight of my New York tour, = and it was because of Internet discussion.   I don=92t expect to agree with all the divergent views, and I know others = do not agree en toto with mine, but I am grateful for the opportunity to = learn from this forum.   Listening to pipe organs on a music system can be good, but they were not created for that. Pipe organs are a coherent part of an acoustic space, = and although theatres and concert halls may feature such an instrument, there = is no guarantee of hearing the instrument speak (some actually limit the = organ to exit music =96 what a tragedy). I have sat in the Wanamaker organ for a =   noon concert, but that instrument does not seem to receive any respect for =   what it is or represents in music today.   Churches, on the other hand, can house great installations, and basically = in performance on a regular basis. Attending worship there may or may not guarantee its role in the service as churches scrap organs for a contemporary service formats; they may or may not be heard in worship or performance, so it is good to know the worship role of the organ in = advance.   Because of this list I am able to discover and discern and develop a = healthy response of my own, and am deeply indebted to those who realize the importance of organ in worship style.   Paul E. Kealy <on tour somewhere in California>    
(back) Subject: RE: Fast and Loud Lent Music From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:32:26 -0500   Shaun Brown   > Why on Earth do you want fast and loud music in lent. What's wrong = with > the vast arrays of quiet, reflective music that the rest of the world > uses!       Robert Lind replies:   > This week Jesus says "Go tell that fox...." > We aren't exactly dealing with a guy with no cojones, if you'll pardon = my > non-French, and my music reflects that.   Bravo, Robert! Those are my sentiments exactly.   Of course, there's something to Shaun's expectations, too, as well as a = desire to make some bow to the tradition of the organ's being silent. = It all leaves me ambivalent. =20   But about one thing I am not ambivalent: we don't do justice to anything = or anyone with a policy that music must either be joyous or easy to = ignore. That would seem to me like the musical equivalent of feeling = that everyone should go around all the time with a stiff smile plastered = on one's face and saying "have a nice day," and that anyone too strange = to do that doesn't belong in church. People come in the door with all = kinds of emotions and all deserve at some time or other to hear music = that resonates with them. =20   There must be a place for some music that gives vent to our suffering-- = and what *better* time for it than the season in which we are confronted = with the sufferings of Our Lord?      
(back) Subject: Gesualdo: Sacred Music for Easter From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:20:54 -0500   I would think it is too late to consider any of Gesualdo's 'Music for Easter' to be sung this year, - but you might like to buy yourself a copy of the April 2004 issue of the BBC Music Magazine.   The cover CD has three of the Motets from Sacrarum cantionum liber primus, =   (1603) and the Tenebrae Responsories for Good Friday from Responsoria et alia ad Officium Hebdomadae Sanctae spectantia, (1611). All beautifully sung by the BBC Singers conducted by Bo Holten, their resident conductor.   The singing doesn't come better than this, and any of the works would go well in a church where the organ is kept silent during Holy Week.   Of course, there is also the added interest of Gesualdo's first wife, whom =   he caught 'in flagrante delicto' with the Duke of Andria and murdered them =   both! Presumably because Gesualdo was a Prince he got off lightly! It makes for good reading in the parish magazine!   If you can find a copy of the BBC Music Magazine, it is worth buying !   Bob Conway