PipeChat Digest #4470 - Saturday, May 1, 2004
 
Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long)
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long)
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long)
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: 4th Prez Chgo (was OHS feat)
  by "Stan Yoder" <vze2myh5@verizon.net>
Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long)
  by <Steskinner@aol.com>
Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long)
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Aaaaalrighty then...lets have come round table discussion
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: 4th Prez Chgo (was OHS feat)
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long)
  by "Scott Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com>
Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long)
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Ya know...im just happy
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: The Great Trumpet and English Full Swell
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 20:07:18 -0700 (PDT)   I would love a full pipe organ in the room...and if a pipe organ builder = can fit an organ in the space and not have it fall thru the floor of the = church...then i just might try it. Right now we have about 20 ranks... in = the gallery. and those 20 ranks on SFZ does nothing in the very room. = However, they are 20 poor ranks. One builder even said he does not think = his voicers in Europe could do anything with the pipes. They could voice = the pipes but we woudl still have a medeocre instrument. Come on...im sure = that not EVERY organ a builder touches has the most perfect pipes in the = most pristine or ripely aged condition. And like said...the Cardinal, and bishops in Chicago are REALLY getting = tough on churches on Community worship because the archdiocese of Chicago = is growing more and more ethnically diverse from people where community = is central in worship and gatherings...hispanic, african-hispanic, polish, = etc. They are urging all the churhces with galleries and the organ and = choirs in them to either get a choir organ built for the front or move = everything to the front at floor level.   If I get 300K in money, and any of the builders on this list thinks they = can build me a versatile, useful, well voice pipe organ...total pipe = organ....with NO preparations, and few borrows...with enough ranks...nice = smooth wind presure...to cut thru 650 people singing a traditional = hymn..you will get my money. The organ should be tall and the pipes = high..i dont want to stand in a floor level pew and look down the mouth of = a pipe. I tell you what...im going to set it even lower. 200K. We are a = working class church...mostly teachers, cops, realtors, allied health, and = business administration people. We are not a doctor/lawyer/trust fund = church. And we already have the financial responsibilities of giving our = part of the tithing to the Archdiocese, and working on making the church = handicap accessible. Which brings me to another thing...I have older = people that want ot join my choir, but cant because of the stair climb, so = moving up front is not a question..its an imperative is i want a good music program. Remember...suitable instrument...limited money. Thats what i need. I need = to be able to "stand on" the pedal stops...good fundamental and = foundation...feel it in the bends of my knees. Desiree'   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:24:16 -0500   This is probably true. If the church is long and difficult for sound, = and the present organ is anemic, it would probably be necessary to = obtain pipes which are more generously scaled and heavily constructed = for higher pressures, and which would need to be loudly voiced in the = bass. The treble would not need to be so loudly voiced, and the = resulting instrument could still be beautiful and not raucous, in spite = of being loud. It would also help to distribute the sound in the = building to have a Choir organ in the chancel, since this would enable = the instrument to speak in both directions down the church, as well as = filling the liturgical requirements of the Archdiocese. A new = instrument along these lines would indeed be fairly expensive, but had = you considered, for example, obtaining suitable secondhand pipework -- = or a complete organ -- from such builders as Skinner, Kimball, etc., = rather than buying new or using your existing pipework?   John Speller   ----- Original Message -----=20 From: T.Desiree' Hines=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 10:07 PM Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long)     I would love a full pipe organ in the room...and if a pipe organ = builder can fit an organ in the space and not have it fall thru the = floor of the church...then i just might try it. Right now we have about = 20 ranks... in the gallery. and those 20 ranks on SFZ does nothing in = the very room. However, they are 20 poor ranks. One builder even said he = does not think his voicers in Europe could do anything with the pipes.  
(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 20:32:43 -0700 (PDT)   Oh sure...im considering looking at what will be available thru John = Bishop when we get money But, I will look at what situation the organ was = in before. Was is a small instrument in a big room? Would it be going from = Bad to worse? Would it be too much in our room? How much of the organ = woudl need rescaling to personalize it you OUR room? If I did this, It = would have to be all pipe work from the same builder and same era. What Im = faced with now is 4 different builders from 4 different eras, and some guy = who took a 2 principal set of pipes and made it a 2 2/3 nazard on the = swell. And the room really does need good uppework...a mixture on every = manual. Currently, we lack brilliance in the room. We will not use = existing pipe work...at least not all of it. i think that the new stuff = that was added in 1970 could be revoice nicely in the hands of a skilled = person.   Miss D     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: 4th Prez Chgo (was OHS feat) From: "Stan Yoder" <vze2myh5@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:47:51 -0400   Desiree sez:   > If you are just playing the antiphonal, you hear fine. takes about 4 = seonds for the music to travel to the front.   Well, at 1150 ft/sec or so, that makes the nave 4600' long! A big church, = forsooth!   Even St. John the Unfinished in NYC is 'only' 600' long.   Stan Yoder Pittsburgh    
(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: <Steskinner@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:48:03 EDT   In a message dated 4/30/2004 9:32:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, nicemusica@yahoo.com writes: 4. I'd rathere spend 150K on a digital/pipe that will fill the room than a = 20 stop all pipe on blasting wind pressure to fill the room for 350K Then, IMO, you would be doing the wrong thing. Nothing bad about a = limited tonal palette you never get tired of, like an 7-8 rank principal chorus, = and a swell division with 2 strings and reeds. One generous 16' Bourdon, and = you've got a marvelous, tho limited, instrument that will accompany (and perhaps thrill) any congregation for years.     Steven Skinner Minister of Music First Presbyterian Church of the Covenant Erie, PA    
(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:55:51 EDT   In a message dated 4/30/2004 10:48:28 PM Central Daylight Time, Steskinner@aol.com writes: Then, IMO, you would be doing the wrong thing. Nothing bad about a = limited tonal palette you never get tired of, like an 7-8 rank principal chorus, = and a swell division with 2 strings and reeds. One generous 16' Bourdon, and = you've got a marvelous, tho limited, instrument that will accompany (and perhaps thrill) any congregation for years.     Steven Skinner Minister of Music First Presbyterian Church of the Covenant Erie, PA Right On! A decent sized Hook or Johnson is just what the doctor ordered. gfc                                                       Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Aaaaalrighty then...lets have come round table discussion From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:20:48 -0700 (PDT)   What kinds of organs do you all play? What types of rooms are they in? What do you not like about the organ? what would you change? If you are a builder, how much organ would I get from you for 200K? What kind of repertoire do you do for church? Are you absolutely in love with this insrtument? If is goes caput tomorrow, what would you replace it with if you had 200K?     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: 4th Prez Chgo (was OHS feat) From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:33:45 -0700 (PDT)   Oh you all ! ugh lol it just takes time for the sound to travel back to you at 4th pres, and = any other big room where the antiphonal is a good bit away from you.       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: "Scott Montgomery" <montre1978@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:10:17 -0700 (PDT)   I play on a Galanti instrument at my church. The instrument is 3 manual, = 50-some stops. I would rather have a 5 stop pipe organ than to use this = instrument. I am currently seeking builders to build a nice 2 manual, = 20-28 stop instrument. I have a small gallery and 4 seconds of acoustic. I think everyone who seeks out electronic instruments have no idea what a = good organ is. Maybe they have only played Mollers or various other = builders that just throw pipes into chambers and call them organs. That = is almost as bad as an electronic. I know when I graduate from the University of Illinois and leave this area = and seek a job, I will not bother applying to positions with electronic = instruments. Maybe my expectations are too high, but I am a professional = organist and would like to play on professionally tailored instruments, = not factory shipped and ready right out of the box               Scott Montgomery 619 W Church St Champaign, IL 61820 217-390-0158 www.scottmontgomerymusic.net --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:25:03 -0700 (PDT)   Thats wonderful! I studied at PLU, where your teachers colleague is now = professor, but did not study long with him. I love the Fritts and love = atracker. At my church, what we would eventually do is have 10 to 20 ranks = of pipes with digital sounds. Remember, there are pipe builders who are = doing this. And remember...if my church gets the money for it and there is a suitable = instrument thru Organ Clearing house, or brand new...we wil get all pipes. = One compnay that is attractive to me is Reiger Kloss...great organs and a = great value...and guess why they are attractive to me? BECAUSE I can get = Tracker action fo rthe SAME price as Electric Slider action...AND I can = have a detached and reversed French Terraced Keydesk, allowing me to = conduct my choir with ease. Thats what it ultimately boils down to...money. However, I will not deal = with this: a builder who woulr rather cram an organ of needed size in a = tight space. We're not going to stuff pipes in the coat room just so = purists will be pacified. We all know...a building has to be structrually = sound to hold a pipe organ suitable for its size. You won't carry a brick = on a piece of notebook paper. One possible design i am looking at is = similar to St Peters Church in Danbury, CT There is the main organ in the = gallery, and a choir organ in the front, with the console and the choir = lost there as well.   D --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Ya know...im just happy From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:42:30 -0700 (PDT)   That my very CATHOLIC church has even expressed the want to move back to = very traditional music and want an organ PERIOD. It could be damned much = worse! Has any one thought that these ways is why some churches get rid of = organs? ABC Church in Anytown USA just may have a deterriorating pipe = organ and only 75K sitting in th bank for another one...but they seat 1000 = people. No pipe organ builder (except Ruffatti and OCH) is goign to try to = help them save money or tell them ways they can try to save money. It is = at a time that the church may say, "well we want an organ...but all we = can afford is a digital". IF the organist leaves...then they have no need = to spend money for an organ...but they sure as hell will hire Bobby and = The Crashers from the Fundamentalist Private High School to "Worship = Lead". Wait a minute...some churches with perfectly good organs are are = doing that. When are the players going to start using full organ? We are hurting ourselves at time.     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: The Great Trumpet and English Full Swell From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 06:45:58 +0100 (BST)   Gentlemen, Will Light is no doubt right in saying that English organs more often have a Great Trumpet before they acquire a Full Swell. Personally I think the full swell - which should be based on a good 16' reed, either Contra Fagotto, Double Trumpet or Clarinet, with a trumpet at 8' and a clarion and a twelth based mixture should come first. Trumpets on their own on the great are rarely of great use. They do not often blend in as a chorus reed, and the swell is not strong enough to support them in a solo role, for which they are seldom suited anyway. With the present apparent trend against Baroque revival instruments in the US - maybe as a result of their not being well suited to a carpeted environment, or poorly designed and executed examples - or even unstable tuning - if you are returning to an 8,8,4,2 design I wouldn't put a Trumpet in until your organ swells to a greater size. John Foss   Will Light wrote The English full Swell is created, in England at least, more usually by a Cornopean or an Oboe or both in the Swell. English organs more usually seem to have a Trumpet stop on the Great. Check out the NPOR for evidence!     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : Australian sporting pre-eminence     ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html