PipeChat Digest #4473 - Sunday, May 2, 2004 RE: organ in Chicago by "Michael David" <email@example.com> What is a "Bad" Organ? (cross posted) by "Mike Gettelman" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Developing a relationship with service technician - some thoughts by <RMaryman@aol.com> Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) by "T.Desiree' Hines" <email@example.com> RE: St. Ita's long ago by "Glenda" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: What is a "Bad" Organ? (cross posted) by "Stephen Best" <email@example.com> Re: St. Ita's long ago by "Alan Freed" <firstname.lastname@example.org> What Dale is saying in "boring" is. by "T.Desiree' Hines" <email@example.com> The Cathoilic church in IL and money for organs by "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Bob's question by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <email@example.com> Re: St. Ita's long ago by <Myosotis51@aol.com> Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) by <Keys4bach@aol.com> Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) by <Keys4bach@aol.com> Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) by <Keys4bach@aol.com> Re: pressure for organs on floor by <RSiegel920@aol.com> St. Ita's by <RSiegel920@aol.com> RE: Aaaaalrighty then...lets have come round table discussion by "Erik Johnson" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Stevens organs by "black" <email@example.com>
(back) Subject: RE: organ in Chicago From: "Michael David" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 16:34:15 -0500 Howell - Dixon, IL. I've heard they take their time:-) michael -----Original Message----- From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]On Behalf Of Robert Lind Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 1:15 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: organ in Chicago I'd like to try it sometime. How can this be arranged? The only time I = heard this organ live was back around 1958 when Gaston Litaize gave a recital there. Was it Holloway who worked on it last year and added a 32' = extension to the incredible 16' Bombarde? There was an AGO recital there, IIRC, some months back, but I couldn't get there. Bob Lind ----- Original Message ----- From: black <email@example.com> To: PipeChat <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 8:11 AM Subject: organ in Chicago > HI to Desiree and all who live in Chicago. I would like your opinions of the > organ rebuild at St. Ita's on Broadway; just curious. Thanks, Gary
(back) Subject: What is a "Bad" Organ? (cross posted) From: "Mike Gettelman" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 17:59:13 -0400 Greetings Friends and others, I had an indescribable organic experience in Philadelphia on Thursday while attending the Senior Recital of Felix Hell at The Field Concert Hall of Curtis Institute. Since fellow list member Doug Campbell has already reported on the event itself, I will limit my comments to the 5 manual/pedal A=E9olian Skinner instrument that so fills the way way dry room that is smaller than the Great room in some residence homes. As a non playing organ enthusiast, I can't imagine the amount of preparation required to deliver a program such as we heard that night, completely from memory. When you combine that with the effort and study it must have taken to figure out how to make the instrument sound musical in that small room without literally blowing folks through the walls, it must have been a herculean task of huge proportion. Combining all the above with the fact Felix was being critically judged on his ability to wrangle with all the problems and deficiencies, I left the program completely stunned by what I had heard. I would challenge anyone to do it better. But I digress, since I promised to talk about the instrument itself. When I returned home from Philadelphia and began to emerge back into the Internet based organ community, I quickly began to realize how bad the reputation of this instrument is perceived by those who have heard it, and those who have heard about it. Not one of these comments concerned how lucky the organ students at Curtis are to have a giant 5 manual teaching instrument on which to learn their craft. Certainly the room might have been better served by a smaller self contained instrument of less generous scale, but that would have also restricted the instructional possibilities, perhaps leaving those students less prepared to deal with the intricacies of any similar sized instruments they might encounter in the real world. So does it make the instrument BAD because it isn't appropriately designed for the room and the acoustic? In a pure sense, perhaps. But if you allow yourself to think outside the box for a moment, and consider what the Institute is trying to accomplish, you might just find yourself impressed by the cleverness of those who decided to install that instrument in that place. Do I ask that you like the way it sounds? Of course not. I ask only that you look to whatever redeeming value the instrument might have in the place and for the purpose for which it was installed. Actually, I was quite satisfied to be in such close proximity to the lush A=E9olian Skinner voices at Curtis. The very beginnings of my organic adventures just 4 years ago found me inside the chambers of the Skinner at Severance Hall during a concert I will never forget. I had no worry that I wasn't out in the Hall where the standing waves had the optimum chance to develop. I was simply immersed in the joy of being up close and personal with pipes that were designed by the hands of masters. It was sort of like being invited to join a reception that included all the great people you know. You may laugh at the concept, but don't doubt for a minute my sincerity. To pull the subject line back into focus here, I would propose that there are really no "Bad" pipe organs. Certainly some are far more successful than others, but I find the idea of creating music through the vehicle of blowing air through pipes designed to speak musical notes, far too noble an endeavor to dismiss such an instrument off hand. If there were not any inferior or unsuccessful instruments to learn from, how would we ever know a good one when we heard it? Every pipe organ has its place in the greater scheme of things, and as such, deserves respect I think. Though you may have become jaded by your long term exposure to super fine pipe organs, perhaps you might look to understand what purpose the not so fine instruments are serving, and how to help promote them for the general health of the whole community. Such conduct might just help sway a situation where an electronic substitute puts yet another pipe organ in the dumpster, and I would think such stewardship is all of our responsibility. Certainly the concept of carping about the problem without proposing a solution is totally counterproductive in any situation, and particularly so in relation to the pipe organ, which is clinging to life by a precarious finger tip hold as it is. Thus ends my sermon, and I await your response with eager anticipation. Sincerely Mike Gettelman
(back) Subject: Re: Developing a relationship with service technician - some thoughts From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 18:18:48 EDT In a message dated 5/1/2004 9:26:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, firstname.lastname@example.org writes: How do I decide what course to take? And how not to make a mis-step! in MY opinion, and it ONLY that, my opinion... Wehn a person earns a degree in music with an eye towards becoming a chuch = musician, the one thing SORELY lacking in their education is PEOPLE = SKILLS!!! Some people are "people persons" and some are not. Sometimes people who = are inteligent and well educated in their feild of endevour come across as = being arrogant or condescending when they are merely trying to educate another = person. it happens...for better or for worse. Since I am in the service business, and deal with a wide variety of types = of people, there is no one way to be that will satisfy everybody's needs...so = here is what I suggest.: When you land in your new position and are getting settled in, contact = your service provider and set up a time convenient for the two of you (no = outside interference like committee members, the Pastor, etc.) to just talk about = the organ. Ask any questions you have about the layout and acceesibility, and = maybe ask the tech to take you on a "guided tour" of the organ. Express any = concerns about playability, tuning issues, responsiveness to service requests etc...and let him (or her as the case4 may be) talk to you about his (her) = concerns about tuning, access to the organ, temperature control, payment issues, = and whatever. It isn't that hard to show your tuner/tech that you two are on the same = side in that you both want the organ to perform it's best, be in resonably good = tune, minimal technical glitches, and that you are williing to work with = him to see that those goals are met. As a tuner/tech I try my best to thoroughly explain my concerns about a = given organ to my client's representative (usually the church's organist or = college professor charged with the organ's upkeep). I try to give clear, simple expectations about what is needed to get the organ into good = tune/operating condition and keep it there, and I also expect to get paid in a timely = manner once I have performed the work they have requested. I also will go back to do = fixes on slipped notes/minor problems without charge as long as I know that the circumstances warrant. (goes a long way towards customer "good will", and = my clients rarely abuse this trait) just some thoughts. Rick in VA
(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 15:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Well...I will say this...about the Ahlborn Galanti problems. Yuck! I will = otherwise not go any further as there may be an AG rep or guru on the = forum. But I think this tells you my general feelings about them. From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
(back) Subject: RE: St. Ita's long ago From: "Glenda" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 17:23:38 -0500 Hell, Bob, you're not only NOT old, you're attractive. All you have to do is splash on some Obsession for Men and I'll marry you (of course there's a small problem with the existing bigamy laws, but no matter). I am so glad to hear that there are still organists out there who are pushing the envelope on finding and playing new (at least to them) music that is worthwhile, and not just reeling out the same old tired stuff to the congregation. How do we expect to keep the organ alive if we don't play them the reasons? The local AGO chapter's next meeting is organ/piano duets and music you'd never play for church. I can't think of anything that I considered worthwhile that I didn't figure out a way to use it to glorify God. Glenda Sutton email@example.com (who has never seen Bob, but is still eternally grateful for my Bubba theme and variations) -----Original Message----- From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lind Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 4:07 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: St. Ita's long ago No, I don't think I'm old, thank you very much. Sensitive? Yeah. I was merely making a statement about the one and only time I was at St. Ita's. If I were old, I wouldn't be learning, on average, two new works a week; and I'm sick to think how many truly young organists and middle-aged organists and, of course, older organists are so proud of recycling their meager holdings and smugly reporting to these organ lists that nobody knows the difference. For starters, THEY know it and GOD knows it. One can always find time to do what one wants to do, so I don't buy into the idea that a person is just too busy to add to one's repertory. Busy people somehow find time to do even more things than unbusy people do.
(back) Subject: Re: What is a "Bad" Organ? (cross posted) From: "Stephen Best" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 18:41:23 -0400 No "bad" pipe organs? Gee -- pay a visit to Central NY, and I'll find a few to show you! Unfortunately, this area has been cursed by some local organ assemblers who are ultra-cheap...and whose skills are non existent. Would you consider an organ bad if stops are miswired so as one goes up the keyboard the pitches get lower instead of higher? Would you consider an organ bad if pipes had to be physically bent so that the swell shutters would close? What the organ builder forgot to put brakes on the swell shutters? How good might an organ be if the builder included several "Principle" ranks instead of "Principal" ranks? Tonal design? Forget it! Voicing? Never heard of it. I've seen it all...and what I've described is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. Steve Best in Utica, NY Mike Gettelman wrote: > To pull the subject line back into focus here, I >would propose that there are really no "Bad" pipe >organs. >
(back) Subject: Re: St. Ita's long ago From: "Alan Freed" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 18:41:23 -0400 On 5/1/04 5:07 PM, "Robert Lind" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: > Who's old? Thankfully, not THIS kid! Try again some other day!! > I thoroughly appreciate, and approve (for whatever THAT's worth!) your attitude. Throughout your entire post. (I hope I didn't come of as anything less than a thorough admirer of Robert Lind!) Alan, who, that same June 1955, visited what became an alma mater of = yours: Dr. Sowerby's and St. James' Cathedral
(back) Subject: What Dale is saying in "boring" is. From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 15:43:37 -0700 (PDT) What Dale is referring to with a a modest organ boring the play is = this...To play repertoire with a splash with of Tobasco sauce, limited = tonal palatw will not cut it. Of couse good pipe work is a necessity for = any good organ. I would like to know something. What does one do to stir a congregation to = sing at the organ? I recieved a comment from someone who had not met me = yet at my church "I have been meaning to tell you...its so nice to have = you here...your hymn playing really causes a spiritual feeling". Im sorry, = but average people in a congregation are not going to be sapped over by = the "warmth of the principal 8 and how is soars" Now if you are Organist = and Choirmaster at Church of the Holy Organists. maybe so. I know the = likes of my congregation, which has some graduates of some conservatories = from many years ago. They like big, robust, and full. My church is "the = loud sassy Pollock church" as some call it. We are mouthy, = tell-it-like-it-is and if you dont like it, theres another church down the = road type of place. Thats why I fit in so well. Yet, today, we first = communed 99 kids in two masses, and baptized 4 at the Saturday evening = mass. Maybe we will have money sooner than I think. So, where i work is special..the older people only complain when they can't hear the = organ. One told me once "you were so quiet for the prelude...are you = sick?...Get Well!" I respect ones desire and love for 8' principals...as I do the same thing. = I can sit for hours with once nice clear 8' flute and have a field = day...but my congregation is not filled with graduates of some Program in = the Study of Organ Music from ABC Conservatory. Tho some have, they = usually studied at places where the formost Chicago organists were = teaching. As for boring...what bores me is certainly the lack of color and variety = in an instrument, as I have now. Its so nice when im somplace and i have = registrational freedom to play around and creat new registrations. I = sometimes sit at an organ, take a little flute tune and see how many = colors i can demonstrate. other than a reed 32, a goot set of flutes is a = favorite of mine. From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
(back) Subject: The Cathoilic church in IL and money for organs From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 15:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Scott demonstrates a great thing here with Cath churches in IL. We are = often required to give exponential amounts of money to the arch/dioceses = for education etc. Just after Easter, we havd gotten our funds for the = handicap accessibility up by 30K, but the Arch Diocese calls and say "send = us 100K!" From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
(back) Subject: Bob's question From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 18:54:18 -0500 Bob said: "Was it Holloway who worked on it last year and added a 32' extension to the incredible 16' Bombarde? There was an AGO recital there, IIRC, some months back, but I couldn't get there." The only "Holloway" I know of was the Indianapolis building who retired perhaps 15 years ago.....the successor firm, in the same building, is Goulding and Wood. Dennis Steckley & A Six-Pack of Cats
(back) Subject: Re: St. Ita's long ago From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 20:15:59 EDT Hello firstname.lastname@example.org, In reference to your comment: Hell, Bob, you're not only NOT old, you're attractive. All you have to do is splash on some Obsession for Men and I'll marry you (of course there's a small problem with the existing bigamy laws, but no matter). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Glenda - be VERY careful what you ask for........ two sets of in-laws = could be a bit much for even YOU to handle! <grin> Victoria
(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 22:05:02 EDT In a message dated 5/1/2004 12:02:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, Steskinner@aol.com writes: > Yes, indeed. That would be a boring player. No fault of the organ. > > cannot let this one sit here. you can only wring so much out of something. At that point I THE PLAYER would be bored............the fault of the organ is that it is limited and = can only be wrung out so much. I had a 26 rank Austin, nothing nice about it = and after 6 months i cried when i thought about how to program a DIFFERENT = recital every year. i rented electronics for ALL major choral works except Vivaldi's Gloria. = It was PERFECT for that piece. BTW, i have heard broing playing on large organs too. <G> dale in florida
(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 22:10:28 EDT Dear List, there is more to this story and so i will let it go. dale in florida
(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 22:12:12 EDT In a message dated 5/1/2004 3:52:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, email@example.com writes: > What I am talking about is a digital piano being used instead of a > Steinway "D" in a concert setting by a Steinway artist or like caliber = artist in a > symphony I understand.....my point was Herbie Hancock uses it and if you put it in = a case.......most people would not know.....<G> dale in florida
(back) Subject: Re: pressure for organs on floor From: <RSiegel920@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 22:12:59 EDT " 2. The Archbishop of Chicago is whip craking at churhes [sic] to move = the choir and organ to the floor level with the people. " Since when has Cardinal George been pushing this???
(back) Subject: St. Ita's From: <RSiegel920@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 22:14:21 EDT In a message dated 5/1/2004 11:49:12 AM Central Standard Time, firstname.lastname@example.org writes: "organ rebuild at St. Ita's on Broadway" Just curious when this was = done, by who and what was done????
(back) Subject: RE: Aaaaalrighty then...lets have come round table discussion From: "Erik Johnson" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 23:20:15 -0400 >What kinds of organs do you all play? 1916 - 52 Rank Casavant 4 Manual / French Romantic >What types of rooms are they in? Roman Catholic Building - Baroque/Rococo styled seats 1800 >What do you not like about the organ? what would you change? 8' Cor Anglais (free reed stop) cute but sounds more like a harmonica - = ick would like to restore the 8' Solo Tuba and Pedal Bombardes to original sounding crave a mixture 'without' a tierce - lol >If you are a builder, how much organ would I get from you for 200K? What >kind of repertoire do you do for church? French (of course), baroque (amazing how you can make an Hautbois de Orchestre sound like a Cromehorn), modern, improvisation, etc.... >Are you absolutely in love with this insrtument? 90% of it yeah - I am 100% in love with the room - it could make = flatulence sound good. >If is goes caput tomorrow, what would you replace it with if you had = 200K? My dear - we're looking to spend almost $200K on the restoration/rebuild! Erik _________________________________________________________________ Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life = Events. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=3Dmarried
(back) Subject: Stevens organs From: "black" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 22:30:43 -0500 HI, I just got home a few hours ago from holding keys while the 1875 = Stevens organ from Boston. Mass was tuned. This organ is in its = original installation too and of all places, Geneseo, Illinois. Short = compass manuals and flat pedal board, which needs lots of attention, = sure does have a warm sound. The entire casework and key desk are made = of walnut with oak being used for the pedals. The oboe on the swell = sounds more like a small trumpet and the viola d'gamba is very soft. A = recital will be played on it on May 23. Thanks, Gary