PipeChat Digest #4475 - Sunday, May 2, 2004
 
Re: What is a "Bad" Organ? (cross posted)
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re: St. Ita's long ago
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Second marriages and bigamy
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Surprise stop
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: What is a "Bad" Organ? (cross posted)
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Second marriages and bigamy
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Second marriages and bigamy
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Re: Second marriages and bigamy
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
That immature obsession...
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Gottfried help
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Marriage laws
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long)
  by "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net>
Casavant 125th Anniversary
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: That immature obsession...
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
an average weight per stop?
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: an average weight per stop?
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: an average weight per stop?
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
What time is Cameron in Oak Park?
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: What time is Cameron in Oak Park?
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Small home pipe organ for sale X-Posted
  by "Charlie Jack" <Charlie@Jack.NET>
 

(back) Subject: Re: What is a "Bad" Organ? (cross posted) From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 07:31:39 -0400   Mike,   Of course there are bad pipe organs. Very many of them. There are towns here and there in this great country where most of them are bad. Nothing whatsoever noble about them. Thank God and our conscientious collegues for the good ones.   -WG   > "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net> wrote: > > Greetings Friends and others, > ... > To pull the subject line back into focus here, I > would propose that there are really no "Bad" pipe > organs. Certainly some are far more successful than > others, but I find the idea of creating music through > the vehicle of blowing air through pipes designed to > speak musical notes, far too noble an endeavor to > dismiss such an instrument off hand.      
(back) Subject: Re: St. Ita's long ago From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 06:42:30 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:15 PM Subject: Re: St. Ita's long ago     > Hello gksjd85@direcway.com, > > > In reference to your comment: > Hell, Bob, you're not only NOT old, you're attractive. All you have to > do is splash on some Obsession for Men and I'll marry you (of course > there's a small problem with the existing bigamy laws, but no matter). > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Glenda - be VERY careful what you ask for........ two sets of in-laws could > be a bit much for even YOU to handle! <grin>     In the middle of the nineteenth century the hot topic so far as public morality was concerned was not whether gay couples could marry, but = whether it was possible for a man to marry his deceased wife's sister. Eventually Deceased Wife's Sister Acts were passed on both sides of the Atlantic. = I'm not sure whether this worked for deceased husband's brothers as well, or perhaps marrying them had always been permitted. Anyway, while the controversy was at its height, one argument that was put forward was that = it was unfair for a man to be able to make a second marriage without getting = a second mother-in-law.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Second marriages and bigamy From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 08:08:54 -0400   At 07:42 AM 5/2/2004, John Speller wrote: Anyway, while the controversy was at its height, one argument that was put forward was that = it was unfair for a man to be able to make a second marriage without getting = a second mother-in-law.   To which Bob Conway appends;   It always used to be said that the penalty for bigamy was two = mother-in-laws!   Cheers!   Bob    
(back) Subject: Surprise stop From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 13:12:54 +0100 (BST)   I have heard a rumour - though others are better placed than I to confirm it - that all organs from the Temple Organ company come with three additional stops. One is labelled "Smile", another "Laugh" and the third "Collapse in hopeless hysterics on the floor while playing the Ukelele". They are attached by tracker links to a 1915 horn wind up gramophone, and the organist must decided which record best fits the particular liturgy he or she is playing for, e.g. "On your knees mother*******", and so on. John Foss   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : A present for May 1st Long live the EU Political incorrectness     ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html  
(back) Subject: Re: What is a "Bad" Organ? (cross posted) From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 05:18:46 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   What is a bad organ?   This is so difficult to answer, but perhaps there is a clue in the factory approach to organ building. I cannot speak for the US, but here in the UK, we had builders such as J J Binns, Brindley & Foster and Conacher (just three examples among many) who used more or less standard scales, standard voicing in the factory and only indulged in regulation on site.   The end-user result of all this, was in the provision of very variable instruments which, to all intents and purposes were otherwise "standard" issue.   The tonal variation was entirely due to organ siting and church acoustics/absorbency.   Conachers always worked best in relatively dry rooms, whereas Binns organs have enough "fizz" for the bigger acoustic and can sound "hard" in drier rooms. Brindley & Foster, who started out as very able organ-builders (who worked closely in conjunction with Schulze) eventually went in the direction of maximum standarisation and company profits.   It seems to have little to do with stop lists, for we have all played nice organs with nothing much on paper. One of my favourite instruments has nothing above 2ft, and only a two rank mixture on the Swell.....but what a lovely instrument it is in that particular building.   Of course, one could argue that almost ANY Hope-Jones instrument is bad, but that would not be a true statement. In fact, the voicing was excellent, and any criticism of the style is one of fashion rather than execution. The orchestral organ was ill-conceived IMHO, whereas the symphonic instrument certainly has its place in the modern world.   Even if we have an all singing and dancing instrument, with multiple choruses, a fully independent pedal and a perfect layout, it is only as good as the sheet of paper on which it is drawn if the builder knows nothing about voicing, scaling and "good taste."   Edmund Schulze said it perfectly, when he touched his ear and said, "I can give t'em my scales, but I cannot give t'em diss!"   Good organs happen when organ builders listen.....to what is required, to the work of others, to the work of the great masters of the past, to the building in which they are asked to place an instrument and to the evolving sound as they voice each rank meticulously.   Even the respected Wurlitzer could often be a bit of a mish-mash of sound, but with a little after-care and attention by enthusiasts, they end up sounding as good as they should have been in the first place.   There are wonderful examples of organ built in many different styles......Arthur Harrison, Willis, Hill, Schnitger, Muller, Silbermann, Skinner, Steinmeyer, Lewis. There is no excuse I'm afraid......the models are all there, even for the builders of unit organs, and all they have to do is study them and use their ears!   Of course, from an engineering and machanical point of view, there have been any number of bad instruments. This is especially apparent in the UK, when complex pneumatic actions have been ill-designed and executed. So expensive to repair, such diabolical ingenuity has spelled the death knell for many instruments in recent years, and resulted in the provision of cheaper digital substitutes. Sadly, some of these organs have sounded wonderful until they fell apart at the seams and gave continuous trouble. There is nothing sadder than the destruction of Abbot & Smith instruments here in the UK, which always sounded superb, but were mechanically very "iffy" straight out of the crates.   Anything else than "attention to detail" is, IMHO, just bad organ building, whether it be tonal or mechanical.   Of course, quality costs...........   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Walter Greenwood <walterg@nauticom.net> wrote: > Mike, > > Of course there are bad pipe organs. Very many of > them.       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover  
(back) Subject: Re: Second marriages and bigamy From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 05:27:18 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Ah! The joys of marriage!   Almost the first thing I said to my partner's mother was, "Don't expect me to call you mother!"   Well, she was the same age as me!!!!!!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   PS: What has this got to do with organs?       --- Bob Conway <conwayb@sympatico.ca> wrote: > At 07:42 AM 5/2/2004, John Speller wrote: it > was unfair for a man to be able to make a second > marriage without getting a > second mother-in-law. > > To which Bob Conway appends; > > It always used to be said that the penalty for > bigamy was two mothers-in-law!       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover  
(back) Subject: Re: Second marriages and bigamy From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 09:30:39 EDT   Hello cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk,     In reference to your comment: PS: What has this got to do with organs?   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~   We're not going THERE, Colin! <EG>  
(back) Subject: Re: Second marriages and bigamy From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 09:02:46 -0500   Colin Mitchell wrote: > Hello, > Ah! The joys of marriage!   <Mother-in-Law>   > Well, she was the same age as me!!!!!!   Heavens!   You married a CHILD!   Sounds like fun!   Faithfully,   G.A.   -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO <>< Schneider Pipe Organs, Inc. 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (877) 944-2454 TOLL-FREE (217) 944-2527 FAX arpschneider@starband.net Home Office EMAIL arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com URL ADDRESS  
(back) Subject: That immature obsession... From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 10:02:15 EDT   The overwhelming need to make noise, rather than music, is killing = organs in America. Poorly designed organs, with frustratingly incomplete tonal schemes, sport 32' stops and brash, ugly "festival" trumpets long before = they get basic choruses and colors for hymns, anthems, liturgy, and literature. The American fixation upon 32' stops is one of the syndromes that = dilutes the quality of, and clouds the thinking about, our pipe organs. Truth be told, for the same price as a 32' reed extension (of rare musical use and somewhat indeterminate tonal quality) one could add a 16' = Pedal string and a second 16' reed to the Pedal, two stops that would add = opportunities for extraordinary flexibility and artistry to the instrument. How often do we see 32' stops, real or fake, tacked onto organs with seriously incomplete tonal schemes? Does that colorless clatter at the end = of every hymn REALLY take priority over full-compass mutations for color = effects and the established literature? Does the gutteral roar of a digital 32' = Trombone beneath your 16' Lieblich Gedeckt extension really make more sense than = adding a soft 8' flue (new or vintage) for accompaniment, choir pitch, meditative =   moments, fleshing out continuo parts, backing up a soloist, or an attention-grabbing diminuendo? How are bad organs created? They are designed by PEOPLE. When was the last time any of us really appreciated having our money wasted? How many of us pat ourselves on the back for accepting bad advice? = When was the last time we were truly satisfied by making the wrong decisions, = running with the football when the best coaches told us to throw a pass?   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City   ..  
(back) Subject: Gottfried help From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 10:03:26 EDT   Hi Steve:   I rebuilt a 1926 Gottfried a few years ago. The main chests are pitman = with double primaries and latchcap magnets. The channeling is in the bottom = boards. The pitman are the style used by Odell with a short dowel attached to the leather disc. Both the pitmans and the pouches are mounted on stringers in = the chests so the chests have to be taken out to be releathered. The valves = are connected to the pouches by wooden levers. There are threaded wire studs = set in the stringers as the fulcrums with leather nuts on both sides of the levers. There is a layer of rubber cloth under the top boards and on top of the = grid with holes punched to allow air to flow from the stringers / pouchboards into = the top boards. This may be the problem. As the cloth and top boards dry out = cracks can develop in the cloth and wind can find its way into the toe holes. = Have you tried tightening the top board screws? The unit chests are the same = style except there is a single primary. I hate to guess what is causing the = ciphers without looking at it and Gottfried may have changed the design as I have = seen chests built after '26 with different design features but the same basic style. You have sparked my interest though and if I can help, let me know. = I have some spare parts left over from the project. Good luck.   All the best:   Alan B    
(back) Subject: Marriage laws From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 09:10:56 -0500   "John L. Speller" wrote:   > In the middle of the nineteenth century the hot topic so far as public > morality was concerned was. . . <snip>. . . whether > it was possible for a man to marry his deceased wife's sister. = Eventually > Deceased Wife's Sister Acts were passed on both sides of the Atlantic. = I'm > not sure whether this worked for deceased husband's brothers as well, or > perhaps marrying them had always been permitted.   Seems to me that there are Levitical laws that codify that this MUST be done; particularly if the first marriage produced no offspring as an heir. =   I know of the account of one wicked person who was put to death by God for refusing to "fulfill his duty" to raise up offspring to his dead brother. In the end, the widow got pregnant by prostitution to the brothers' father Judah!   Those were some pretty rugged times! Makes some of the goings-on these days seem pretty tame! But then again, the other day, I saw a really = SCARY Tee shirt on a baby that read: "Are you my Daddy?"   Perhaps we indulge in worrying about the WRONG organs, but I'm NOT going there. . .   Faithfully,   G.A.   -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO <>< Schneider Pipe Organs, Inc. 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (877) 944-2454 TOLL-FREE (217) 944-2527 FAX arpschneider@starband.net Home Office EMAIL arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com URL ADDRESS  
(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: "James Grebe" <pianoman@accessus.net> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 09:13:59 -0500   Hi, I used to have a client, UCof Chr, that had an old Kimball grand, gutted = it, refinished it and inserted a Clavinova in the keybed. Then angled = it so you could not see the front and the congregation seems to be = happy. James Grebe Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair Artisan of Wood WWW.JamesGrebe.com 1526 Raspberry Lane Arnold, MO 63010 pianoman@accessus.net ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Keys4bach@aol.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:12 PM Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long)     In a message dated 5/1/2004 3:52:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, = pianoman@accessus.net writes:     What I am talking about is a digital piano being used instead of a = Steinway "D" in a concert setting by a Steinway artist or like caliber = artist in a symphony=20     I understand.....my point was Herbie Hancock uses it and if you put it = in a case.......most people would not know.....<G>   dale in florida  
(back) Subject: Casavant 125th Anniversary From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 09:30:30 -0500   This morning, while doing some URL checking on the Web I came across the following from Casavant about their 125th Anniversary to be celebrated in November.   http://www.casavant.ca/125thAniversary.html   Since the information on the page is a JPEG file I wasn't able to copy the text out of it but basically Casavant has commissioned a work by Dan Locklair for performance in November and they invite all organists that play their organs to get a copy of the work and perform it on the weekend of November 13 - 14, 2004   David  
(back) Subject: Re: That immature obsession... From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 07:33:37 -0700 (PDT)   What organs out there have a reed 32 and only a Lieblich 16 as the flue in = the pedal? Pleawse tell me so I know NOT to get that builder if we get a = pipe organ. My ideal...first put the Great 16' plenum and take off from = there. If the room supports party stops put them, if not, make something = else a party stop or feature, like a nice hautbois on a 20 stop tracker. I = have seen some organs that have poor core designs. I cant stand it when = some places build a 17 stop organ and the great is 8 Gedackt, 4 principal, = 2 mixture, 8 dulzian or some BS like that. They forgot the Principal 8! = The core of organ tone! And my goodness, I love a good set of mutations. = Im always using them in faster flute tunes to create whims. One scheme that Reiger Kloss has is a unit organ of 10 ranks where each = stop is 97 pipes. They expand the tonal qualities to have such beautiful = color and bell-like tone...even to an 8/9 none! It's a veyr intricate = design, and calls for LARGE windchests. I was told that the tonal quality = is ok, but you get lots of color. Jean Gilliou loves that organ they do.         From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: an average weight per stop? From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 07:48:23 -0700 (PDT)   I would think that there is an average weight per stop on an organ. Maybe = 500 or so pounds? Of course, the windchest is the heaviest of that weight. = Does double and triple decking chang that? D   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: an average weight per stop? From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 11:12:30 EDT   There is no average weight per stop, just as there is no average price per =   stop. Are you talking about the weight of a 2' tin Gemshorn or a 16' zinc = and hammered lead Praestant?   The wind chest or soundboard (per stop) is not the heaviest part of the organ. Or is it? Are we talking about a wooden mechanical action slider = soundboard? Or are we talking about your newest bit of news, a "super-unit" organ with = 97 heavy electromagnets per rank?  
(back) Subject: Re: an average weight per stop? From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 08:16:51 -0700 (PDT)   Im thinking the avg weight per rank on an EP organ. Does decking matter? Double, triple? D   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: What time is Cameron in Oak Park? From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 08:41:15 -0700 (PDT)   it would be a nice close to the 5 masses i have had to do this weekend.     From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: What time is Cameron in Oak Park? From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 11:20:43 -0500   >it would be a nice close to the 5 masses i have had to do this weekend.   7:30-PM   First United Methodist Church 324 N. Oak Park Avenue Oak Park, Illinois    
(back) Subject: Small home pipe organ for sale X-Posted From: "Charlie Jack" <Charlie@Jack.NET> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 12:31:03 -0400   I am posting this for a friend who is selling one of his two residence pipe organs. Please contact him directly if interested or you need more information.   Charlie Jack   Small pipe organ, one manual, no pedals. Approximately 250 pipes plays 7 stops. Voices include principal, flute, and string. Designed to be dismantled and moved easily. (Instrument is in the Boston area). Asking $3,500. Contact callman@marketingeast.com