PipeChat Digest #4477 - Sunday, May 2, 2004
 
Re: Second marriages and bigamy
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
RE: Second marriages and bigamy
  by "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com>
Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long)
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: What is a "Bad" Organ?
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: That immature obsession...
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Second marriages and bigamy
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: What is a "Bad" Organ?
  by "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net>
Re: That immature obsession...
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Restoration of a Skinner instrument
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long)
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
Re: St Jane De Chantal had the same problem we have
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Sermon with Organ accompaniment
  by "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net>
Estey TRACKER Organs
  by "Phil Stimmel" <pca@sover.net>
Re: Sermon with Organ accompaniment
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Sermon with Organ accompaniment
  by "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net>
Re: Sermon with Organ accompaniment
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Sermon with Organ accompaniment
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: St Jane De Chantal had the same problem we have
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Second marriages and bigamy From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 15:27:19 -0400   On 5/2/04 10:02 AM, "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> wrote:   > Heavens! >=20 > You married a CHILD! >=20 > Sounds like fun! >=20 OK. True story. First Sunday in my first parish, Sept. 1961, rural North Dakota. Hammond Spinet; organist got $1 a week. First service in "the country church"; second one in "the town church." At the first service it was announced that there=B9d be a Silver Wedding Anniversary reception in the church basement at 2 p.m. As the new pastor, I was asked if I=B9d come; of course, I did. =20   It was worth it just to hear the story. Shortly before WW1, the wife, then about 19, had been an assistant midwife in the community. A woman went int= o labor, and somebody ran off to get the =B3real=B2 midwife=8Bbut SHE was on anothe= r =B3call,=B2 so this teen-aged midwife was summoned, and delivered a baby boy. = A month later, she stood as a Godmother for that baby boy.   Quarter-century goes by. Baby boy, now grown, falls in love with the woman who=B9d =B3delivered=B2 him and had become his Godmother. Marries her. (I don=B9t think they had any kids.) And this Sunday was the Silver Anniversary of that wedding.   (Yes, I realize it would have been illegal in a Roman parish, but Lutherans don=B9t know from such fine points.)   Alan    
(back) Subject: RE: Second marriages and bigamy From: "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 21:09:23 +0100   Does this mean that Roman Catholics categorize God parents as if they = were real parents?   =20   Puzzled - and not for the first time!   =20   Will Light Coventry UK   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of = Alan Freed Sent: 02 May 2004 20:27 To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Second marriages and bigamy   =20   On 5/2/04 10:02 AM, "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> = wrote:   > Heavens! >=20 > You married a CHILD! >=20 > Sounds like fun! >=20 OK. True story. First Sunday in my first parish, Sept. 1961, rural = North Dakota. Hammond Spinet; organist got $1 a week. First service in "the country church"; second one in "the town church." At the first service = it was announced that there'd be a Silver Wedding Anniversary reception in = the church basement at 2 p.m. As the new pastor, I was asked if I'd come; = of course, I did. =20   It was worth it just to hear the story. Shortly before WW1, the wife, = then about 19, had been an assistant midwife in the community. A woman went = into labor, and somebody ran off to get the "real" midwife-but SHE was on = another "call," so this teen-aged midwife was summoned, and delivered a baby = boy. A month later, she stood as a Godmother for that baby boy. =20   Quarter-century goes by. Baby boy, now grown, falls in love with the = woman who'd "delivered" him and had become his Godmother. Marries her. (I = don't think they had any kids.) And this Sunday was the Silver Anniversary of that wedding.   (Yes, I realize it would have been illegal in a Roman parish, but = Lutherans don't know from such fine points.)   Alan=20      
(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 16:35:41 EDT   In a message dated 5/2/2004 10:14:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, pianoman@accessus.net writes:   > used to have a client, UCof Chr, that had an old Kimball grand, gutted = it, > refinished it and inserted a Clavinova in the keybed. Then angled it so = you > could not see the front   that is the spirit.....<G>   dale in florida    
(back) Subject: Re: What is a "Bad" Organ? From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 15:41:52 -0500   Here's a "bad" organ for ya. One that I frequently play and also service. = I did not build it, however.   8' Open Diapason (actually narrow-scale bierded) (73 pipes) 4' Principal (73 pipes) Bourdon unit from 16' (97 pipes) 8' viola (73 pipes) 8' celeste (from TC 49 pipes) 8' oboe (pretty small, but full compass 61 pipes)   All in one expression box. The pipes are from various sources. The flute =   is huge, almost a tibia. The oboe is lovely but too soft to make much of = a difference to full organ. Etc.   This is what we would all call a "bad" organ. In fact, I hated it at = first when I first started playing it. Its interesting though. I've played = some electronic organs, some with many stops, and often like them at first. = Then I start to get bored as my ears figure out how fake the tone really is. = But this "bad" pipe organ did the opposite. I didn't like it at first because = I didn't know it, but then figured out how to register it and treat it like the 6 rank organ it is (instead of the 20 stops it appears to have) and = the natural tones began to grow on me, and I rather enjoy playing it now. = When I sub there as organist I have heard comments on how nice it sounds when I =   play it. I'm not a great organist, but I consider myself above average = when it comes to registration, even though I don't know what's "accurate". I just know what's musical. It was nicely restored a few years ago, so is now in excellent shape = (except for a few bass pipes ruined by a bad voicer at some point, still in there barely speaking). As technician, all I ever have to do is knock it back = in tune once or twice a year. The ranks do not go together at all but each = is lovely on its own, and a clever organist makes it sound good. Even a not = so clever organist usually sounds good enough. Sure it would be nice to have = a bigger, better organ, especially one that all goes together for a cohesive =   sound.   But they're a small parish, without a lot of money. The organist and = people love the organ for what it is, and if anyone gets bored, its only because boring music is being played, or its being played in a boring way.   A lot of organists in this AGO chapter spend a lot of time complaining = about organs. If we can't learn to like our organs, we might as well forget = about the public having any interest! A lot of the organs in Vermont labeled "bad" I think are pretty good! Others are not so good. But = finding one that sounds worse than most electronics I've played is rare. Less variety maybe, but I'd rather have 6 nice sounds than a thousand nasty = ones.   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: That immature obsession... From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 16:46:42 EDT   In a message dated 5/2/2004 10:02:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, TubaMagna@aol.com writes:   > Does the gutteral roar of a digital 32' Trombone > beneath your 16' Lieblich Gedeckt extension really make more sense than > adding > a soft 8' flue (new or vintage) for accompaniment, choir pitch, = meditative > moments, fleshing out continuo parts, backing up a soloist, or an > attention-grabbing diminuendo? >   in a word the answer is often yes....Easter and Christmas rules   Most money and people. Just like having a soprano that will give me a B-flat at the drop of a hat.   Dynamite soft is great but not the thrill middle and southern America has come to expect in worship. We keep away the happy clappy with Hollywood = endings.   <G>   dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Second marriages and bigamy From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 17:16:58 -0400   On 5/2/04 4:09 PM, "Will Light" <will.light@btinternet.com> wrote:   > Does this mean that Roman Catholics categorize God parents as if they wer= e > real parents?   The way I heard it, many years ago, was that there is =B3spiritual relationship=B2 between a Godparent and a Godchild. And similarly between a man and his wife. And you can have only one such relationship at a time.   Is that still the case? I don=B9t know at all. (I=B9d GUESS =B3yes.=B2)   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: What is a "Bad" Organ? From: "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 17:27:33 -0400   Hello Andy, Actually don't think I may made my own point in the original post = nearly as clear as you did here. As humble, as ill disposed, as poorly designed, as hard to register, = as anything else that's wrong with this virtual octopod, it serves the = church, the parishioners love it, it's economical, and even the organist has found = reasons to appreciate it. It may not be so good in the definition of classic organ tradition, but in its own unique mongrel way, it's loved and appreciated, = and I'd love to hear it. To those who would suggest that an organ is bad because some hack = criminal builder butcher wired it wrong, forgot to make sure the pipes fit in the = swell box, installed a completely ridiculous combination of pipes, or whatever improper decision he made, then thrash him soundly and use all your power = to do what you can to rectify the problems as you see fit. Sitting back on your haunches and complaining about it is to deny your responsibility of = stewardship for any and all organ instruments that contain pipes. I thought this was = what love for the instrument was all about, or is this a myth, and the organ = world not real. Mike   Andy Lawrence wrote:   > Here's a "bad" organ for ya. One that I frequently play and also = service. > I did not build it, however. > > 8' Open Diapason (actually narrow-scale bierded) (73 pipes) > 4' Principal (73 pipes) > Bourdon unit from 16' (97 pipes) > 8' viola (73 pipes) > 8' celeste (from TC 49 pipes) > 8' oboe (pretty small, but full compass 61 pipes) > > All in one expression box. The pipes are from various sources. The = flute > is huge, almost a tibia. The oboe is lovely but too soft to make much = of a > difference to full organ. Etc. > > This is what we would all call a "bad" organ. In fact, I hated it at = first > when I first started playing it. Its interesting though. I've played = some > electronic organs, some with many stops, and often like them at first. = Then > I start to get bored as my ears figure out how fake the tone really is. = But > this "bad" pipe organ did the opposite. I didn't like it at first = because I > didn't know it, but then figured out how to register it and treat it = like > the 6 rank organ it is (instead of the 20 stops it appears to have) and = the > natural tones began to grow on me, and I rather enjoy playing it now. = When > I sub there as organist I have heard comments on how nice it sounds when = I > play it. I'm not a great organist, but I consider myself above average = when > it comes to registration, even though I don't know what's "accurate". I > just know what's musical. > > It was nicely restored a few years ago, so is now in excellent shape = (except > for a few bass pipes ruined by a bad voicer at some point, still in = there > barely speaking). As technician, all I ever have to do is knock it back = in > tune once or twice a year. The ranks do not go together at all but each = is > lovely on its own, and a clever organist makes it sound good. Even a = not so > clever organist usually sounds good enough. Sure it would be nice to = have a > bigger, better organ, especially one that all goes together for a = cohesive > sound. > > But they're a small parish, without a lot of money. The organist and = people > love the organ for what it is, and if anyone gets bored, its only = because > boring music is being played, or its being played in a boring way. > > A lot of organists in this AGO chapter spend a lot of time complaining = about > organs. If we can't learn to like our organs, we might as well forget = about > the public having any interest! A lot of the organs in Vermont > labeled "bad" I think are pretty good! Others are not so good. But = finding > one that sounds worse than most electronics I've played is rare. Less > variety maybe, but I'd rather have 6 nice sounds than a thousand nasty = ones. > > A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service > PO Box 111 > Burlington, VT 05402 > (802)578-3936 > Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: That immature obsession... From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 15:06:17 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   What was it that Cecil B. de Mille said about the score for "The ten commandments?"   "I want it like Wagner.....only bigger!"   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Keys4bach@aol.com wrote: > > Dynamite soft is great but not the thrill middle and > southern America has > come to expect in worship. We keep away the happy > clappy with Hollywood endings.       __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover  
(back) Subject: Re: Restoration of a Skinner instrument From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 18:18:31 EDT   In a message dated 5/2/2004 1:27:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Swedish5702@aol.com writes: I have been asked on behalf of the organ committee to search for a firm = that does restoration work on EM Skinner instruments.   in the worst (best?) traditions of the internet, I'd like to throw my name =   into the hat for consideration of your restoration project. Having said = that, I will recommend two firms with somewhat stellar reputations in the = northeastern US who are both noted for their Skinner work.   ! - Joe Dzeda and Nick Thompson-Allen Thompson - Allen Organ Co. New haven, CT They are curators of the wonderful E M Skinner organ at Yale.   2 - Nelson Barden & Co. Boston, MA     I also do work on some Skinner organs, should the two above firms not be available. I would also be more than happy to visit if you are located in the Mid-Atlantic states and give an independant appraisal and recommendations = if you would be interested. You can contact me via return e-mail.   Rick Maryman Staunton VA    
(back) Subject: Re: electronic substitutes (kinda long) From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 17:26:40 -0500   In fairness, the analogy of a Clavinova vs a Steinway in a concert hall=20=   setting with a high caliber concert artist is quite flawed. The vast=20 majority of organs are not in a concert hall; most professional=20 organists are not, sad to say, the reincarnation of Edwin Lemare; and=20 most people who listen to (or some would say are subjected to) organ=20 music are not concert goers.   No, most organs are in churches; most organists are underpaid folks=20 with varying amounts of talent and a day job; most organ listeners are=20=   congregants primarily present for a spiritual experience which may,=20 with good fortune, be enhanced by music from the organ; and unlike=20 concert goers, most organ listeners are directly responsible for the=20 purchase and maintenance of the instrument they are hearing.   That is the real world of the organ. And for many, many congregations,=20=   digital instruments are indeed a fine alternative to pipes. As a=20 life-long pipe organ enthusiast, I find that sad. But I understand the=20=   reality.   Russ Greene St. Andrew's Anglican Church -embarking on the fund raising necessary to purchase a comprehensive=20 digital instrument.     On May 1, 2004, at 9:12 PM, Keys4bach@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 5/1/2004 3:52:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 > pianoman@accessus.net writes: > > > What=A0 I am talking about is a digital piano being used instead of a=20=   > Steinway "D" in a concert setting by a Steinway artist or like caliber=20=   > artist in a symphony > > > I understand.....my point was Herbie Hancock uses it and if you put=20=   > it in a case.......most people would not know.....<G> > > dale in florida=    
(back) Subject: Re: St Jane De Chantal had the same problem we have From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 17:32:38 -0500   Desiree'- I can't tell if you mean that the choir loft won't support the organ or what, but my home parish had that problem. What we ended up with would kill some people, but it works. The swell and the console are in the choir loft and the great is on its own platform behind the console, and there is an antiphonal rank in the front of the church. I think there are about 25 ranks, but it supports a the large congregation and can play some literature. And let me tell you, we didn't have the money for that organ at first either, but somehow it got paid off. I think the people got more interested as they saw the project progress. I had never seen so many adults looking BACKWARD in church ;-) (I was nine.)   Alicia Zeilenga     -----Original Message----- From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: St Jane De Chantal had the same problem we have   > ....and they got a digital/pipe combo. The architects went to St Jane > and told them if the put a pipe organ large enought to fill the room > adequately, the minute they got to having the sufficient pipe ranks up, > it would be a fallout shelter emergency. so they yave i think 8 ranks > of pipes and the rest digital. > > D > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs      
(back) Subject: Sermon with Organ accompaniment From: "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 17:41:56 -0500   Today at First United Methodist Church in Iowa Falls we had our annual = "One Great Hour of Music" during the service, in which all the musical = groups; children's, youth and adult choirs, bell choirs of the same = makeup, participate in the service by each playing a number or two. The = congregation in unison reads the bible verse that each musical selection = is based on, then the group performs the selection. There were around = eleven numbers plus three hymns; When in our music God is Glorified, He = Keeps Me Singing, and Come Christians Join to Sing. The sermon was = entitled "Sermon with Organ Accompaniment" . The congregation read the = bible verse and then the minister started. It was the minister's story = of an average organist whose goal in life was to play Widor's Toccata = and how he accomplished it, playing it better than other, more = accomplished organists. He tied it to what it would be like if if the = organist had his goal as of The Kingdom of God instead of the Toccata. = This is a very basic summary of the sermon, but it was about 7 minutes = long,( it could be longer or shorter, depending on how much you want to = play) and I would play a few measures of whatever selection he was = referring to at the time he would say it. The selections included: = Toccata in D Minor, Bach; My Jesus, I love Thee; Will O the Wisp, Nevin; = Toccata, Widor; Take me Out to the Ball Game (This is the only piece he = had to get me the music for!) The Farmer in the Dell; and Jesus Loves = the Little Children. We were both surprised the the tremendous, positive = response we received. All in all, a great day! Mark  
(back) Subject: Estey TRACKER Organs From: "Phil Stimmel" <pca@sover.net> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 19:00:33 -0400   In going over the Estey pipe organ opus list, I have discovered some = SEVEN which are listed as tracker organs, ranging from 1 manual to 3 manuals. A couple even indicate they = had automatic player mechanisms. Does anyone on this list have any information on this? Their dates = range from 1907-1915.   I had always understood that Estey only made one tracker. Perhaps these = were rebuilds of some sort.   Phil Stimmel www.esteyorgan.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Sermon with Organ accompaniment From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 19:12:25 -0400   On 5/2/04 6:41 PM, "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net> wrote:   > All in all, a great day!   Mark, it all sounds wonderful. I=B9m delighted. Is it possible that an actual text of the sermon might be available?   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Sermon with Organ accompaniment From: "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 18:23:58 -0500   Re: Sermon with Organ accompanimentSure. I'll get it this week and = e-mail it to you. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Freed=20 To: PipeChat=20       Mark, it all sounds wonderful. I'm delighted. Is it possible that an = actual text of the sermon might be available?   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: Sermon with Organ accompaniment From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 19:31:27 -0400   On 5/2/04 7:23 PM, "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net> wrote:   > Sure. I'll get it this week and e-mail it to you.   Thanks a BUNCH! I look forward to it.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Sermon with Organ accompaniment From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 16:43:41 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   "Sermons with music"....exactly what happened at my church yesterday (Sunday) except that "they" decided to plumb a CD into the PA system.   To the strains of the Tchaikovsky "Pathetique" the sermon was delivered as "a reflection."   This great idea was marred by the incompetence of the CD operator, who set the volume too high, with the result that about a third of the reflection was completely lost to us.   Isn't this just typical of to-day's "democratic church" where even the worst amateurs feel obliged to meddle in musical affairs, with often disatrous consequences.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       --- "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net> wrote: > Today at First United Methodist Church in Iowa Falls > we had our annual "One Great Hour of Music     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover  
(back) Subject: Re: St Jane De Chantal had the same problem we have From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 16:57:35 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   With the miracles of modern electronic transmission systems and mechanical marvels, it MUST be possible to support an organ on water, let alone a building.   My suggestion is to float Desirees planned organ on air-bags like a sort of musical hovercraft.   In fact, there are precedents......organs used to be found on ocean-going liners.   Just consider the advantages.....no mildew anywhere in church, cooling air in summer for the organist.....add a set of brushes to the blower, and it would even sweep the carpets at the same time as it gently floated around the church. The dust collection bag could double up as the bellows, with appropriate filtering.   With joy-stick control, one could have the organ creep up slowly behind the clergy, and with one great final trump, bring their career (and possibly their lives) to a premature end!   We're on to a winner with this one.......   Christmas, and other processionals, would be simply wonderful......a candlelit musical monster, wafting slowly down the aisle, followed by acolytes and the choir, with the organist affixed to the secondary bridge-console.   Why has no-one thought about this before?   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Alicia Zeilenga <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> wrote: > Desiree'- > I can't tell if you mean that the choir loft won't > support the organ or > what, but my home parish had that problem......     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover