PipeChat Digest #4488 - Friday, May 7, 2004
 
Re: Emergency Hymn Help
  by "bgsx" <bgsx52@sympatico.ca>
Babylon 5 and organs in movies
  by "james nerstheimer" <enigma1685@hotmail.com>
Re: Ducasse - Pastorale:  Difficulty and Farnum
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Ducasse - Pastorale:  Difficulty and Farnum
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Ducasse - Pastorale:  Difficulty and Farnum
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
RE: Time for me to expand
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Re: Ducasse - Pastorale:  Difficulty and Farnum
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
New Organist at St. Barts (NY)?
  by "Richard Smith" <sailnut@worldnet.att.net>
RE: New Organist at St. Barts (NY)?
  by "Mari" <mreive@tampabay.rr.com>
Re: Emergency Hymn Help
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
For Paul Emmons...Guillou
  by "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com>
Re: Sheet music needed...
  by "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com>
Draw filing reed voicing- some questions
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <rgunther@cantv.net>
Ein Feste Burg
  by "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com>
Re: Draw filing reed voicing- some questions
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Ein Feste Burg
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Ein Feste Burg
  by "Alvin Wen" <wen@rochester.rr.com>
Re: Ein Feste Burg
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Ein Feste Burg
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Rodgers 990 3-manual available for a church
  by "Paul Kealy" <imkealy@yahoo.com>
Re: Ein Feste Burg
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Ein Feste Burg
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
advice on Mother Dearest
  by "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip1@yahoo.com>
Re: advice on Mother Dearest
  by "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Emergency Hymn Help From: "bgsx" <bgsx52@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 05:57:11 -0400     pdf's ...   http://www.kantoreiarchiv.de/archiv/kleine_kantorei_cappella_piccola/ein_fe= ste_burg/ein_feste_burg_1/     score (need a plugin)   http://www.cyberhymnal.org/non/de/festburg.htm      
(back) Subject: Babylon 5 and organs in movies From: "james nerstheimer" <enigma1685@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 05:13:20 -0500   Wrote Richard Hazelip:   <Reminds me of a line from Babylon 5: I once had all the options in the world but no power. Now I have the all the power but no options. (bragging rights for whoever can identify who said that line, and in what season.)>     I'm going to guess it was the Centauri ambassador, though I forget his = name and have no clue as to which season. I used to watch this series from the =   get-go. Loved it! Is it still being run somewhere? (the story makes = tons more sense than LEXX, currently shown on SciFi Channel)   Now to steer it back on topic, sci-fi movies and TV series seem to show = some magnificent buildings at times, with pipe organs conspicuously absent. = One exception was Dinotopia. Several scenes in the Library reveal a rather English-looking instrument high above in a loft. Somebody in that production had a sense of CULTURE. Other cameos made by pipe organs can = be found in Spaceballs and (I think, please correct) Edward Scissorhands (an instrument by Hradetzky). (or was it Lawnmower Man?). Unfortunately, neither of these got a speaking part=97in Spaceballs, thanks to the foley department substituting the sound of an electronic, or did they really = play it? Gotta watch that one again!   Now, if there really were a holodeck . . . .   jim   O):^)   _________________________________________________________________ Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life = Events. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=3Dmarried    
(back) Subject: Re: Ducasse - Pastorale: Difficulty and Farnum From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 03:51:59 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I brought this piece up not long ago, mentioning that one of the stretches (as it goes into F#) is beyond my little paws. I recommended re-arranging it the same as the following bar, which cannot be detected on listening.   The rapid pedal part I find quite easy; falling, as it does, beautifully under the feet.   If there is a problem with this piece, it is the highly pianistic idiom which, of course, is the preserve of French organists generally.   The Pastorale really is a wonderful piece, and one worth working at.....but in an afternoon?   Could I be allowed a month or two....please?   Regarding quick learning, I know an organist-robot, who just plays whatever is set in front of him with very, very few mistakes.   The same was, of course, true of Karl Straube, who was never thrown off balance by anything Reger threw on his music desk.   Some people are just brilliant at reading the dots, but it doesn't mean that they are necessarily musicians.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Lewwill@aol.com wrote: > Dear listers > > No one would deny that the "Pastorale" is a killer > to learn. I recall > reading that Lynwood Farnum memorized it in an > afternoon.     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover  
(back) Subject: Re: Ducasse - Pastorale: Difficulty and Farnum From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 04:52:03 -0700 (PDT)   Colin, you make some very beautiful points here, and say them very = eloquently. I know a friend I went to school with that was an excellent reader, yet = everytime i heard him play i felt like I was just hearing notes. He grew = musically, as I did with him, by improvisation classes. About piano and the French repertoire post 1850-that repertoire along with = England and the USA is my final specialization. I find myself learning so = many pieces from this era. It is very true that the French school is = pianistic in idiom. As a matter of fact, I learn all the pieces at the = piano, then take them to organ. Interestingly, I was practicing my french = piece for a competition, 40 minutes before the competition, and thats the = piece that got me 1st place. I find that learning those pieces at the = piano is key, for me, to forward progression of learning them. heh...another thing...the pedal line...Jeff McLelland, my teacher in = Mississippi, always said the pedal lines are the easiest in all our = repertoire. Mastering clean manual work is the challenge, while pedals can = be mastered well quickly. Interesting that we have started talking about Jeanne Demisseaux, as I am = considering learning Dupre's sketch in Bb minor. That set, appearantly = comes from 9 transcendental etudes written for her. It is truly a = beautiful and spiritual piece.   Colin Mitchell <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hello,   I brought this piece up not long ago, mentioning that one of the stretches (as it goes into F#) is beyond my little paws. I recommended re-arranging it the same as the following bar, which cannot be detected on listening.   The rapid pedal part I find quite easy; falling, as it does, beautifully under the feet.   If there is a problem with this piece, it is the highly pianistic idiom which, of course, is the preserve of French organists generally.   The Pastorale really is a wonderful piece, and one worth working at.....but in an afternoon?   Could I be allowed a month or two....please?   Regarding quick learning, I know an organist-robot, who just plays whatever is set in front of him with very, very few mistakes.   The same was, of course, true of Karl Straube, who was never thrown off balance by anything Reger threw on his music desk.   Some people are just brilliant at reading the dots, but it doesn't mean that they are necessarily musicians.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Lewwill@aol.com wrote: > Dear listers > > No one would deny that the "Pastorale" is a killer > to learn. I recall > reading that Lynwood Farnum memorized it in an > afternoon.         __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: Ducasse - Pastorale: Difficulty and Farnum From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:23:37 EDT   In a message dated 5/7/2004 7:53:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, nicemusica@yahoo.com writes:   > I learn all the pieces at the piano   and our regimen should include continual piano practice.   but then i became old and forget to use the piano.   dale in Florida who uses DIgital PIANOS too.........    
(back) Subject: RE: Time for me to expand From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:23:53 -0400   > Anyone ever do the Saga No. VI-Ikarus of Jean Gilliou?   I got it out to consider it as the postlude the Sunday after the = Columbia disaster.   The organ blew a fuse. And I wasn't even playing loudly.   But it's a good piece, very dramatic.=20      
(back) Subject: Re: Ducasse - Pastorale: Difficulty and Farnum From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 08:40:41 -0500   At last! Someone else has made this observation. I share this teacher's opinion that the pedal part is generally the easiest. Of course, this is only true with proper technique... this is even more true with the pedals than with the manuals for the simple reason that the pedals are further = from our line of sight. Try "fudging" on the pedals, and you don't have a = prayer.   Of course, I've never played anything difficult. It's all difficult for = me!   Andy     > > heh...another thing...the pedal line...Jeff McLelland, my teacher in > Mississippi, always said the pedal lines are the easiest in all our > repertoire. Mastering clean manual work is the challenge, while > pedals can be mastered well quickly. >     A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: New Organist at St. Barts (NY)? From: "Richard Smith" <sailnut@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:46:49 -0400   Is William Trafka leaving St Bart's? The church just posted a listing = of their summer concert seies and his presence is not listed as organist = or conductor after the last of the July concerts.   Richard Smith  
(back) Subject: RE: New Organist at St. Barts (NY)? From: "Mari" <mreive@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:17:58 -0400   If I remember correctly, he is going away somewhere--a kind of = sabbatical-- but will be back. Mari -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Richard Smith Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 9:47 AM To: PipeChat Subject: New Organist at St. Barts (NY)?     Is William Trafka leaving St Bart's? The church just posted a listing = of their summer concert seies and his presence is not listed as organist or conductor after the last of the July concerts.   Richard Smith    
(back) Subject: Re: Emergency Hymn Help From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 10:59:34 -0400   On 5/7/04 5:57 AM, "bgsx" <bgsx52@sympatico.ca> wrote:   > pdf's ...   Oops; sorry!   Alan    
(back) Subject: For Paul Emmons...Guillou From: "T.Desiree' Hines" <nicemusica@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 09:42:31 -0700 (PDT)   Who publishes the Saga VI Ikarus?     "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> wrote: > Anyone ever do the Saga No. VI-Ikarus of Jean Gilliou?   I got it out to consider it as the postlude the Sunday after the Columbia = disaster.   The organ blew a fuse. And I wasn't even playing loudly.   But it's a good piece, very dramatic.     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org       From Desiree' T. Desiree' Hines Chicago, IL 60610 ---------------------------- For Compositions by Desiree' Frog Music Press www.frogmusic.com ------------------------------- FOR CONCERTS BY DESIREE' http://concertartist.info/bios/hines.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: Re: Sheet music needed... From: "Jan Nijhuis" <nijhuis@email.com> Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 00:44:29 +0800   Russ,   The title is singular. "The Gift of Love" by Billy Steinberg, Tom Kelly = and Suzanna Hoffs. Since,the piece was co-written by Suzanna Hoffs of the = Bangles, it may be available in a Bangles folio. Of course Bette has way = out lasted "Walk Like an Egyptian" and "Manic Monday." Great organ pieces = all! :-)   Like the Go-go's, the Bangles could be described as "Four great girls, = three great chords." With a recording, this piece might not be so hard to = transcribe. Unfortunatly (?) I've not heard the music before, so I don't = have a feel for its complexity.       ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Greene <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 18:11:54 -0500   Subject: Sheet music needed...   > I need to obtain a piece of sheet music called "The Gifts of Love" > originally recorded by Bette Midler - yes a wedding request! Not a bad > song for a wedding but unfortunately out of print, unavailable, etc. > I've tried local sellers, web sources, everywhere I can think of. > > Does anyone out there have a copy they would be willing to either sell > or loan to me? If you do, please reply off-list. > > Thanks, > Russ Greene > St. Andrew's Anglican Church > Winnipeg, Canada -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm    
(back) Subject: Draw filing reed voicing- some questions From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <rgunther@cantv.net> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:25:06 -0400   Andres Gunther rgunther@cantv.net   I have read that some reeds are voiced imparting the voicing curve to the shallot instead of the tongue. This voicing technique is called "draw filing", and Aeolian-Skinner used it is some stops in the 1950s... = [Monette, pg 100 in the 1992 edition] I have some questions about that:   *What are the practical pros and cons of this technique? (I figured out several ones, but never have dealt with a "draw filed" reed stop). *Does a "draw filing" voiced reed stop sound different from a conventional voiced one? *Is "draw filing" voicing technique still in use nowadays? *Historical interested as ever: Is it known who had the idea?   Feel free to forward my questions to other lists; I am only actived in pipechat in these days. Thanks in advance!   Regards Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.      
(back) Subject: Ein Feste Burg From: "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:16:31 -0500   First question -- are you trying to set the German words to the Rhythmic or to the iso-rhythmic version of the hymn. The words, of course, were written for the Rhythmic version, and while they can be made to fit the iso-rhythmic version, some alteration and fudging will be necessary.   For the rhythmic version, see Lutheran Book of Worship (LBW) Hymn No. 229 or its ultra-conservative counterpart, Lutheran Worship (Sorry don't know the No.) or the older The Lutheran Hymnal (TLH) which is (I think) out of print, but thousands of copies are still floating around -- check any Mo. Synod Lutheran Church.   The suggestion to check the Bach cantata is a good one -- in the cantatas Bach favored the iso-rhythmic settings.   Compare the Rhythmic and iso-rhythmic version of the text in English in LBW 229 and 230 for a side-by side comparason of the necessary text fudging -- parrticularly the part just after the repeat of the opening phrases, "The old evil foe, and so-on, and you will see the differences immediately.   Finally, my condolences on your grandmother's passing, and best wishes in locating music to honor her memory.   Larry Wheelock Director of Music Ministries Kenwood United Methodist Church Milwaukee, Wisconsin musicdirector@kenwood-umc.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Draw filing reed voicing- some questions From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 13:15:39 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <rgunther@cantv.net> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:25 PM Subject: Draw filing reed voicing- some questions     > Andres Gunther > rgunther@cantv.net > > *What are the practical pros and cons of this technique?   Pro: it is much cheaper and easier.   Con: it produces poor results and is not a good way to voice reeds.   Draw filing reed voicing is just one more misguided way of cutting corners in organ building ...   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: Ein Feste Burg From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:53:24 -0400   On 5/7/04 2:16 PM, "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com> wrote:   > The suggestion to check the Bach cantata is a good one -- in the = cantatas Bach > favored the iso-rhythmic settings.   In a chorale setting, yes; but in a polyphonic setting, I think not.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Ein Feste Burg From: "Alvin Wen" <wen@rochester.rr.com> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 14:55:22 -0400   At 02:53 PM 5/7/2004, Alan Freed wrote: >On 5/7/04 2:16 PM, "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com> wrote: > > > The suggestion to check the Bach cantata is a good one -- in the > cantatas Bach > > favored the iso-rhythmic settings. > >In a chorale setting, yes; but in a polyphonic setting, I think not. > >Alan   Aren't chorales polyphonic?   -Alvin    
(back) Subject: Re: Ein Feste Burg From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 15:03:12 -0400   On 5/7/04 2:55 PM, "Alvin Wen" <wen@rochester.rr.com> wrote:   > Aren't chorales polyphonic? >=20 Gee, maybe I=B9m all wrong abut this. But I think of the isorhythmic version= s (LBW, for example) as homohonid: Straight block chords. But in the cantatas (no music at hand), aren=B9t they often fugal, and thus quite polyphonic. Am I saying this all wrong?   PLEASE fix me up! =20   Alan      
(back) Subject: Re: Ein Feste Burg From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 15:09:06 -0400   On 5/7/04 2:55 PM, "Alvin Wen" <wen@rochester.rr.com> wrote:   > At 02:53 PM 5/7/2004, Alan Freed wrote: >> On 5/7/04 2:16 PM, "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com> wrote: >>=20 >>> > The suggestion to check the Bach cantata is a good one -- in the cant= atas >>> Bach >>> > favored the iso-rhythmic settings. >>=20 >> In a chorale setting, yes; but in a polyphonic setting, I think not. >>=20 >> Alan >=20 > Aren't chorales polyphonic? >=20 > -Alvin=20 >=20   Continuing: =20   See Service Book & Hymnal, 1958. Christ lag in Todesbanden, #98. First setting is essentially isorhythmic, and I=B9d CALL it homophonic. But second setting is a Bach harmonization, which is surely quite polyphonic.   Maybe I=B9m mixing up two kinds of distinction.   HALP!   Alan    
(back) Subject: Rodgers 990 3-manual available for a church From: "Paul Kealy" <imkealy@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 12:58:01 -0700 (PDT)   Rodgers 990 3-manual electronic (analog) church organ with speakers and amps that we are willing to sell/give to somebody. The sell/give depends on who -we would probably sell to an individual, but give to a needy church. This is an old organ - 30 years or more - but it is fully functional and used weekly. Probably still has a few good years in it... More information at http://www.stjohnsfc.org/Organforsale.htm <http://www.stjohnsfc.org/Organforsale.htm> Not pipes, but might help someone. Paul      
(back) Subject: Re: Ein Feste Burg From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 13:05:54 -0700   OK, y'all have sufficiently muddied the waters (chuckle) ...   1. the chorale MELODIES were originally iso-rhythmic, sort of like mensuralist plainsong, and were sung in UNISON, *without* organ accompaniment.   Things like Schuetz's choralbuch probably WEREN'T sung or played in church, but were intended to be sung and played at HOME as "table-music."   2. accompanying the congregational singing of the chorales (Bach at Muhlhausen) was the EXCEPTION, rather than the rule, and his "smoothing out" of the RHYTHM was probably as much a cause for the Council's objections as his HARMONIES   3. the chorales were sung in the old way at Leipzig. The organ played a chorale prelude to introduce the chorale; then the congregation sang it WITHOUT the organ. When partitas were required during communion, the congregation sang the verses unaccompanied and the organ played BETWEEN the verses, but not DURING the verses.   4. Bach's chorale settings are CHORAL music to be sung by the CHOIR, not the congregation ... they form the final chorus of the cantatas. To transpose them down to a range suitable for congregational singing is a SERIOUS error in musicology AND hymnology. That's why they've been mostly excluded from modern Lutheran hymnals.   5. Bach's smoothing out of the chorale rhythms into equal half notes (as commonly notated in our hymnals) represents a very late, very decadent version of the chorale. Compare his setting of "O Gott, Wir Loben Dich" (the German metrical Te Deum) with that of Schein.   Cheers,   Bud   Alan Freed wrote:   > On 5/7/04 2:55 PM, "Alvin Wen" <wen@rochester.rr.com> wrote: > > At 02:53 PM 5/7/2004, Alan Freed wrote: > > On 5/7/04 2:16 PM, "Larry Wheelock" <llwheels@mac.com> wrote: > > > The suggestion to check the Bach cantata is a good one -- in > the cantatas Bach > > favored the iso-rhythmic settings. > > In a chorale setting, yes; but in a polyphonic setting, I think = not. > > Alan > > > Aren't chorales polyphonic? > > -Alvin > > > Continuing: > > See Service Book & Hymnal, 1958. Christ lag in Todesbanden, #98. > First setting is essentially isorhythmic, and I=92d CALL it homophonic. > But second setting is a Bach harmonization, which is surely quite > polyphonic. > > Maybe I=92m mixing up two kinds of distinction. > > HALP! > > Alan      
(back) Subject: Re: Ein Feste Burg From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 16:14:41 -0400   On 5/7/04 4:05 PM, "quilisma@cox.net" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote:   > OK, y'all have sufficiently muddied the waters (chuckle) ... > Bud, thank you very much. I was about to send you an individual (onlist) note asking for (not support, but) help/clarification. I've got to think about this yet some more.   Alan, needing you always!    
(back) Subject: advice on Mother Dearest From: "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip1@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:16:04 -0700 (PDT)   Greetings all! I have been successful up until this year in avoiding Thomas Day's = favorite hymn - Mother Dearest - for mother's day. A couple of my = choristers have been unusually vociferous in their clamoring for this = hymn, so I have decided to play to the cheap seats this year. Can you offer me a liturgically sound reason that I can pass on to my = choristers why I will not ever use this piece again - - beyond my knee = jerk reaction of comparing our mothers to Mary? Your assistance is greatly appreciated! Richard      
(back) Subject: Re: advice on Mother Dearest From: "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:37:58 -0400   There's lots of reasons, Richard.   What denomination are you with? If it's a church that uses a Lectionary, = then the use of *anything* Mother's Day-ish is out of place because the proscribed scriptures for the day have nothing to do with the cultural greeting- card/flower/phone/restaurant industry day.   If you're not a lectionary-using church, then merely the fact that = honoring Mother's Day within the service has nothing to do with proclaiming the risen = Christ, which is (or should be) the ONLY reason for having a worship service.   Perhaps the moms would be content with being honored during the Sunday School hour, or with being presented a carnation corsage as they enter the =   sanctuary for church.   Another place to acknowledge the mothers would be in the prayers. Perhaps =   something along the lines of a blessing would be appropriate.   There's also a hymn, "Mothering God" that may cause more controversy than = it's worth and may not be appropriate for the appointed scriptures for the day, = but it's out there.   FWIW, and YMMV, and IMO, and all that jazz.   --Shirley       On 7 May 2004 at 14:16, Richard Hazelip expounded:   > Greetings all! > > I have been successful up until this year in avoiding Thomas Day's > favorite hymn - Mother Dearest - for mother's day. A couple of my > choristers have been unusually vociferous in their clamoring for this > hymn, so I have decided to play to the cheap seats this year. > > Can you offer me a liturgically sound reason that I can pass on to my > choristers why I will not ever use this piece again - - beyond my knee > jerk reaction of comparing our mothers to Mary? > > Your assistance is greatly appreciated! > > Richard > >