PipeChat Digest #4489 - Friday, May 7, 2004
 
RE: advice on Mother Dearest
  by "Milo R. Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net>
German chorales and their styles (LONG)
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: St. Bart's NYC
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: advice on Mother Dearest
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: German chorales and their styles (LONG)
  by "bgsx" <bgsx52@sympatico.ca>
Re: advice on Mother Dearest
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Alleluia Verse for Pentecost - Byrd/Viadana (English text)
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
My new Hammond
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: advice on Mother Dearest
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: advice on Mother Dearest
  by "Michael Conrady" <mconrady@popplano.org>
Re: advice on Mother Dearest
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: advice on Mother Dearest
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: advice on Mother Dearest
  by "Milo R. Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net>
Re: advice on Mother Dearest
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: Sheet music needed...
  by "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: RE: advice on Mother Dearest From: "Milo R. Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 17:41:11 -0400   Because even though Mary is the mother of Christ, we shouldn't be worshipping her over Christ. We should merely respect her for her role in the grand scheme of things. Mother's Day is to respect all mothers that take upon them the burden of bearing and raising children that may or may not turn out like they wish. Yet the still main reason we attend church = is to worship Christ and God the Father, not to worship Mary. -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Richard Hazelip Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 5:16 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: advice on Mother Dearest     Greetings all!   I have been successful up until this year in avoiding Thomas Day's favorite hymn - Mother Dearest - for mother's day. A couple of my choristers have been unusually vociferous in their clamoring for this = hymn, so I have decided to play to the cheap seats this year.   Can you offer me a liturgically sound reason that I can pass on to my choristers why I will not ever use this piece again - - beyond my knee = jerk reaction of comparing our mothers to Mary?   Your assistance is greatly appreciated!   Richard    
(back) Subject: German chorales and their styles (LONG) From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:52:15 -0400   Different ways German chorales might be sung (and trying to sort them out).   1. Accompanied or not. Just for simplicity, let=B9s settle on a cappella.   2. With harmony, or just the cantus firmus. Just for simplicity, for starters let=B9s go with melody-line alone. (Well, very soon we=B9ll complicat= e that.) =20   3. Within those limitations, we=B9re left with =B3isometric=B2 vs. =B3polyrhythmic.=B2 I=B9m defining them (VERY subject to correction) as:   Isometric (=B3same meter=B2): Each beat of the cantus is of approximately equa= l value (let=B9s say quarter-note). But there MAY be =B3passing tones=B2 (say, a pair of eighth-notes, melismatically on one sung syllable of text).   Polyrhythmic (much less predictable; warning: syncopation may occur!): Th= e time-value of any given sung syllable may be that proposed quarter-note, or it may be half as long or twice as long.   (I don=B9t care at all whether the =B3basic=B2 metric value for a sung syllable i= s quarter-note or half-note, or twice that; choose your own preference.)   So far, I think this is easy. Now we come to the distinction between homophonic and polyphonic.   I define =B3polyphonic=B2 (whether I=B9m right or wrong=8Band I WELCOME clarification) as music in (let=B9s say =B3four=B2) parts, where the movement of each part defines its own identity. The parks work nicely together. But the intention is not =B3square, blockish four-part chords=B2 that, regardless o= f rhythm, work like, say, =B3Melita,=B2 =B3St. Anne,=B2 or any of a thousand or so nineteenth-century hymns.   Intermission to consider the usual hymnic settings of SINE NOMINE (=B3For All the Saints=B2). I would describe stanzas 4 through 6 as thoroughly homophonic. But stanzas 1-3 and 7-8 are (I say hesitatntly) at least somewhat polyphonic. Response MUCH invited.   The sound of any given moment (say the third beat of the second measure) ma= y be easily definable as a =B3IV=B2 chord=8Bor not; that=B9s not the intention. (Is it possible that it=B9s not definable that way at all?=8BI=B9m thinking that migh= t easily be the case.)   I define =B3homophonic=B2 as constructed differently. There=B9s a melody line in the soprano part (or perhaps in the tenor line); it is accompanied by three more parts. That melody and its accompaniment form a series of =B3vertical=B2 =B3chords,=B2 definable as =B3I,=B2 =B3IV,=B2 =B3V,=B2 etc. (Can=B9t do the ones with superior numbers in an e-mail, you understand.)   I=B9ve used the word =B3intention=B2 and =B3structured=B2 a few times. Is that entirely out of line? Does composer=B9s intention have anything to do with it? =20   DYING to be =B3fixed up=B2 on this. FAR too many years since I was in school.   Thanks to all.   Alan                    
(back) Subject: Re: St. Bart's NYC From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 17:55:05 EDT   At the end of last year, Preston Smith, formerly of St. Phillip's, Charleston, SC, and lately of St. Andrew's Episcopal, Tampa, FL, was = appointed Associate Director of Music at St. Bartholomew's Church, where he joined Bill Trafka =   and Ken Cowan. Preston told me that this summer, Bill Trafka would be = taking a sabbatical, and would be gone for the summer and a portion of the Fall. = When I spoke with Preston a couple of months ago, he was trying to get things = lined up to transition smoothly to cover the summer months, since he was the = "new kid on the block" and was having to run the show at the same time. He = said he was thankful that he had Ken Cowan on hand to do the playing so he didn't = have to worry about the organ music. Bill Trafka hasn't gone anywhere, he's = just taking some time off, but the music program is in more than capable hands = for the next several months.   Monty Bennett    
(back) Subject: Re: advice on Mother Dearest From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 15:14:04 -0700   We already DID this on Anglican-Music (chuckle). If you're in an American Protestant church, you're NOT going to avoid celebrating Mother's Day, all the liturgical proscriptions to the contrary notwithstanding.   There's no conflict in the RC Church because the month of May is dedicated to Mary anyway, and the first Sunday of May is usually May Crowning Sunday, no matter WHAT it is liturgically. And the priests used to always preach on "Our Three Mothers: Our Earthly Mother, Our Holy Mother the Church, and Our Heavenly Mother Mary" (grin).   I can't, however, see a Protestant Church singing "Mother Dearest", as it's a hymn in honour of the Mother of God, NOT earthly mothers.   Here's a suggestion (too late for this year): hunt up settings of Psalm 45 (Eructavit cor meum -- My heart overfloweth with a good matter -- My heart is inditing of a goodly theme) which addresses Sophia (wisdom) in the feminine, or Psalm 128 (Beati omnes -- Blessed are all they that fear the Lord) ... the "wedding Psalm", or "O Perfect Love" set to "Charterhouse" ... I have that in the computer if anybody wants it.   Cheers,   Bud   Shirley wrote:   > There's lots of reasons, Richard. > > What denomination are you with? If it's a church that uses a = Lectionary, then the > use of *anything* Mother's Day-ish is out of place because the = proscribed > scriptures for the day have nothing to do with the cultural greeting- > card/flower/phone/restaurant industry day. > > If you're not a lectionary-using church, then merely the fact that = honoring Mother's > Day within the service has nothing to do with proclaiming the risen = Christ, which is > (or should be) the ONLY reason for having a worship service. > > Perhaps the moms would be content with being honored during the Sunday > School hour, or with being presented a carnation corsage as they enter = the > sanctuary for church. > > Another place to acknowledge the mothers would be in the prayers. = Perhaps > something along the lines of a blessing would be appropriate. > > There's also a hymn, "Mothering God" that may cause more controversy = than it's > worth and may not be appropriate for the appointed scriptures for the = day, but it's > out there. > > FWIW, and YMMV, and IMO, and all that jazz. > > --Shirley > > > > On 7 May 2004 at 14:16, Richard Hazelip expounded: > > >>Greetings all! >> >>I have been successful up until this year in avoiding Thomas Day's >>favorite hymn - Mother Dearest - for mother's day. A couple of my >>choristers have been unusually vociferous in their clamoring for this >>hymn, so I have decided to play to the cheap seats this year. >> >>Can you offer me a liturgically sound reason that I can pass on to my >>choristers why I will not ever use this piece again - - beyond my knee >>jerk reaction of comparing our mothers to Mary? >> >>Your assistance is greatly appreciated! >> >>Richard >> >> > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: German chorales and their styles (LONG) From: "bgsx" <bgsx52@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 18:16:07 -0400     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorale   Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.   If you don't like the wiki you can re-write it to suit yourself just click, "Edit this page"  
(back) Subject: Re: advice on Mother Dearest From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 15:16:53 -0700   Here we go again ... we don't WORSHIP Mary, we VENERATE her as first among the Saints. Latria and dulia ... the Church Fathers made the distinction. The First Council of Chalcedon declared her to be the Mother of BOTH Christ's humanity AND his divinity, and that is the cause for our veneration. She was the Chosen Vessel for the Second Person of the Holy Trinity in His incarnate form as perfect Man and perfect God.   Cheers,   Bud   Milo R. Shepherd wrote:   > Because even though Mary is the mother of Christ, we shouldn't be > worshipping her over Christ. We should merely respect her for her role > in the grand scheme of things. Mother's Day is to respect all mothers > that take upon them the burden of bearing and raising children that may > or may not turn out like they wish. Yet the still main reason we attend =   > church is to worship Christ and God the Father, not to worship Mary. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf > Of Richard Hazelip > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 5:16 PM > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Subject: advice on Mother Dearest > > Greetings all! > > I have been successful up until this year in avoiding Thomas Day's > favorite hymn - Mother Dearest - for mother's day. A couple of my > choristers have been unusually vociferous in their clamoring for > this hymn, so I have decided to play to the cheap seats this year. > > Can you offer me a liturgically sound reason that I can pass on to > my choristers why I will not ever use this piece again - - beyond my > knee jerk reaction of comparing our mothers to Mary? > > Your assistance is greatly appreciated! > > Richard      
(back) Subject: Alleluia Verse for Pentecost - Byrd/Viadana (English text) From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 15:20:41 -0700   Just posted to my download list. Others e-mail me privately. Suggested donation $5 US ... make all the copies you want.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: My new Hammond From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 18:22:33 EDT   I know that this will freak people out, but since I seem to have a habit = of doing that to the list, I will continue in my role and, in the words of Brittney Spears, "oops, I did it again."   Well, a few months ago, I traded in my classical organ at home (an Ahlborn-Galanti) and bought a Hammond B3 with a Leslie, which I am having = way too much fun with. I figured that I had access to many pipe organs, including = having one at the funeral home where I work, and having one at church, and = several within a couple blocks of my house, and I have keys to a couple of = churches with fine pipe organs (A-S, Austin, and Kney) where I have free reign to come = and go on the instruments. I wanted a fun organ to play and enjoy at home for my =   pleasure. So, I had been looking around and got in contact with the = Atlanta branch of Vintage Hammond. Iwas so pleased with the service I got from = them, I talked them up at the church so much that a couple of months ago, we = started talking about looking for a "new" Hammond for the church. Well, we = hightailed it down to Atlanta about a month ago and found us a sweet D152 (concert model =   with 32 pedals) that looked like it had just come off the showroom floor. = It was installed yesterday and I swear this organ should have been one of = Hammond's showcase installations. The purists on this list will fall over with apoplexy, but it really has a pipe-like quality to it. I have never heard = a Hammond sound this way before. We've got the Leslies up in the pipe chambers, so = the sound has a chance to mix in the room and bloom. It's amazing.....simply amazing. Even our music department secretary came in and asked me if it = was really a Hammond, because she had never heard a Hammond sound like this = before. It is so smooth. This is the organ that Hammond should have used back when = they had the big FTC fiasco about Hammond calling the organ an "organ" and had Porter Heaps do the demo of a Hammond and a Skinner. Well, now that I've = bored you with the details about our newest purchase, I just wanted to also put = in a plug for the great guys at Vintage Hammond in Atlanta. Since I've bought = an organ for my home from them and now my church has gotten an organ from = them, too, I've had great service and dealing with them has been wonderful. = It's refreshing to deal with people who take care of the customers and care = about making them happy and keeping them satisfied. Thank you Charlie and = Garet! The sad thing about it is that the Hammond sounds better than our current pipe organ :( (but it won't sound better than the Ruffatti!)   Monty Bennett Friendship Baptist Church Charlotte, NC    
(back) Subject: Re: advice on Mother Dearest From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 17:21:05 -0500   If you are in a Roman Catholic church, I don't think you have much chance. I can't think of anything theologically incorrect in the hymn. It shouldn't be used for Offeratory or Communion and the Opening and Closing Hymns should fit the readings. I usually use Mary-hymns for Preludes or possibly Communion Meditation during months traditionally dedicated to Mary, such as May.   If you aren't RC, just look at the verse, "Help our priests, our virgins holy, help our pope, long may he rein..." And that should be the end of that.   I was looking for a hymn to use for my pastor's anniversary later this month and you've given me a great idea. It's also good since the Pope's birthday is sometime this month. Alicia Zeilenga "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: Richard Hazelip <rhazelip1@yahoo.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:16:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: advice on Mother Dearest   > Greetings all! > > I have been successful up until this year in avoiding Thomas Day's > favorite hymn - Mother Dearest - for mother's day. A couple of my > choristers have been unusually vociferous in their clamoring for this > hymn, so I have decided to play to the cheap seats this year. > > Can you offer me a liturgically sound reason that I can pass on to my > choristers why I will not ever use this piece again - - beyond my knee > jerk reaction of comparing our mothers to Mary? > > Your assistance is greatly appreciated! > > Richard > >      
(back) Subject: Re: advice on Mother Dearest From: "Michael Conrady" <mconrady@popplano.org> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 17:33:05 -0500   Richard,   We feel your pain. Shirley's remarks are right on. Another sound liturgical principal to consider is who the hymn is directed towards. = Since "Mother Dearest" is directed at Mary, not God or a member of the Trinity, = it belongs outside of the liturgy. (Sorry, but this means that "Ave Maria" = is technically out, too.) Of course, your choir could always request to sing this as a prelude or postlude, but at least you've removed it from the liturgy itself for a good, fundamental liturgical reason. In the spirit of liturgical adaptation, possible exceptions to this rule might include a wedding where the bride and groom lay flowers at a Marian Shrine, or some such diversion.   Hope this helps!   Michael Conrady Director of Music and Liturgy Prince of Peace Catholic Community Plano, TX    
(back) Subject: Re: advice on Mother Dearest From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 18:42:52 -0400   On 5/7/04 6:16 PM, "quilisma@cox.net" <quilisma@cox.net> wrote:   > Here we go again ... we don't WORSHIP Mary, we VENERATE her as first = among the > Saints. Latria and dulia ... the Church Fathers made the distinction. = The > First Council of Chalcedon declared her to be the Mother of BOTH = Christ's > humanity AND his divinity, and that is the cause for our veneration. She = was > the Chosen Vessel for the Second Person of the Holy Trinity in His = incarnate > form as perfect Man and perfect God.   Bud still sounds like a Lutheran, so you are permitted to heed his definitions.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: advice on Mother Dearest From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 15:47:36 -0700   Alicia, I have "Behold A Great Priest" by Singenberger in English for SATB, also "Thou Art A Priest Forever" by Fr. Rossini, if you want either of those.   Cheers,   Bud   Alicia Zeilenga wrote:   > If you are in a Roman Catholic church, I don't think you have much > chance. I can't think of anything theologically incorrect in the hymn. > It shouldn't be used for Offeratory or Communion and the Opening and > Closing Hymns should fit the readings. I usually use Mary-hymns for > Preludes or possibly Communion Meditation during months traditionally > dedicated to Mary, such as May. > > If you aren't RC, just look at the verse, "Help our priests, our virgins =   > holy, help our pope, long may he rein..." And that should be the end of =   > that. > > I was looking for a hymn to use for my pastor's anniversary later this > month and you've given me a great idea. It's also good since the Pope's =   > birthday is sometime this month. > > Alicia Zeilenga > "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Hazelip <rhazelip1@yahoo.com> > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 14:16:04 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: advice on Mother Dearest > > >>Greetings all! >> >>I have been successful up until this year in avoiding Thomas Day's >>favorite hymn - Mother Dearest - for mother's day. A couple of my >>choristers have been unusually vociferous in their clamoring for this >>hymn, so I have decided to play to the cheap seats this year. >> >>Can you offer me a liturgically sound reason that I can pass on to my >>choristers why I will not ever use this piece again - - beyond my knee >>jerk reaction of comparing our mothers to Mary? >> >>Your assistance is greatly appreciated! >> >>Richard >> >> > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: RE: advice on Mother Dearest From: "Milo R. Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 18:54:52 -0400   Bud, Please realize that not every church follows the Catholic teachings. = I am a member of the LDS Church and we do not see Mary as a venerated saint. We choose to worship Christ as the Savior and Redeemer of the world. = Mary, as the mother, is only looked upon as someone unique enough to be the = mother of the Only Begotten Son of God. As for Saints, we look upon anyone that = is a follower of Christ as being a saint. One is not more important than another.   This is just my two cents worth, but I feel that we should each remember that every religion has something slightly different than what we are used to and be open minded enough to accept that and let each worship how or whomever they choose.   Milo   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of quilisma@cox.net Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 6:17 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: advice on Mother Dearest     Here we go again ... we don't WORSHIP Mary, we VENERATE her as first among the Saints. Latria and dulia ... the Church Fathers made the distinction. The First Council of Chalcedon declared her to be the Mother of BOTH Christ's humanity AND his divinity, and that is the cause for our veneration. She was the Chosen Vessel for the Second Person of the Holy Trinity in His incarnate form as perfect Man and perfect God.   Cheers,   Bud   Milo R. Shepherd wrote:   > Because even though Mary is the mother of Christ, we shouldn't be > worshipping her over Christ. We should merely respect her for her role > in the grand scheme of things. Mother's Day is to respect all mothers > that take upon them the burden of bearing and raising children that may > or may not turn out like they wish. Yet the still main reason we attend > church is to worship Christ and God the Father, not to worship Mary. >      
(back) Subject: Re: advice on Mother Dearest From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 15:57:59 -0700   Um, not according to the documents of Vatican II, and they are normative, rather than advisory documents from individual bishops or national conferences. The Marian Masses (feast days, Saturdays, and votives) remain in the Novus Ordo Missal and the new Graduale Romanum.   NOWHERE have I read that hymns, motets, and anthems are to be addressed ONLY to Persons of the Holy Trinity in the Roman Catholic Church ... that sounds more like some of the more extreme reformers during the English Reformation (chuckle).   I will grant you that "Ave Maria" is probably not appropriate during Communion, except possibly in the course of the celebration of a Marian Mass.   Mary is still invoked at EVERY Mass in the central prayer of consecration (the Canon) in the Novus Ordo. And Vatican II proclaimed Her "Mother of the Church" ... that doesn't sound to ME like they intended to push Her out of the liturgy (grin).   I think you'll find that Liturgiam Authenticam and Redemptionis Sacramentum will put a quick stop to a lot of this revisionist nonsense.   Cheers,   Bud   Michael Conrady wrote:   > Richard, > > We feel your pain. Shirley's remarks are right on. Another sound > liturgical principal to consider is who the hymn is directed towards. = Since > "Mother Dearest" is directed at Mary, not God or a member of the = Trinity, it > belongs outside of the liturgy. (Sorry, but this means that "Ave Maria" = is > technically out, too.) Of course, your choir could always request to = sing > this as a prelude or postlude, but at least you've removed it from the > liturgy itself for a good, fundamental liturgical reason. In the spirit = of > liturgical adaptation, possible exceptions to this rule might include a > wedding where the bride and groom lay flowers at a Marian Shrine, or = some > such diversion. > > Hope this helps! > > Michael Conrady > Director of Music and Liturgy > Prince of Peace Catholic Community > Plano, TX > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: RE: Sheet music needed... From: "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 17:58:28 -0500   fwiw - searching abebooks.com: Powell's Books in Portland, OR has Bette Midler's Greatest Hits - Warner Brothers. No contents listed but it might be worth a shot.   michael     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Jan Nijhuis Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:44 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Sheet music needed...     Russ,   The title is singular. "The Gift of Love" by Billy Steinberg, Tom Kelly = and Suzanna Hoffs. Since,the piece was co-written by Suzanna Hoffs of the Bangles, it may be available in a Bangles folio. Of course Bette has way = out lasted "Walk Like an Egyptian" and "Manic Monday." Great organ pieces all! :-)   Like the Go-go's, the Bangles could be described as "Four great girls, = three great chords." With a recording, this piece might not be so hard to transcribe. Unfortunatly (?) I've not heard the music before, so I don't have a feel for its complexity.       ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Greene <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 18:11:54 -0500   Subject: Sheet music needed...   > I need to obtain a piece of sheet music called "The Gifts of Love" > originally recorded by Bette Midler - yes a wedding request! Not a bad > song for a wedding but unfortunately out of print, unavailable, etc. > I've tried local sellers, web sources, everywhere I can think of. > > Does anyone out there have a copy they would be willing to either sell > or loan to me? If you do, please reply off-list. > > Thanks, > Russ Greene > St. Andrew's Anglican Church > Winnipeg, Canada -- Jan Nijhuis nijhuis@email.com   -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org