PipeChat Digest #4494 - Monday, May 10, 2004
 
Re: developing good practice technique
  by "Alvin Wen" <wen@rochester.rr.com>
Re: developing good practice technique
  by "Christopher Howerter" <OrgelspielerKMD@msn.com>
Re: developing good practice technique
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: developing good practice technique
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
RE: developing good practice technique
  by "Milo R. Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net>
good practice technique
  by "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip1@yahoo.com>
Re: Fifth Sunday of Easter, Year C, somewhere near Jurassic Park
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Wayne Leupold Editions e-mail address
  by "Wayne Leupold" <WLeupold@msn.com>
Re: good practice technique
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: good practice technique
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Re: Fifth Sunday of Easter, Year C, somewhere near Jurassic Park
  by "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
in preparation - music for Aug. 15
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
RE: developing good practice technique
  by "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Holy Trinity, Brooklyn .... Fine Tuning My original Post. Comments fr
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
RE: [LONG] Whaddya think?  Would it sell?
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <rgunther@cantv.net>
Gospel for Three Deacons for St. Mary the Virgin Aug. 15
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
absolute truth
  by <Steskinner@aol.com>
Absolute truths
  by "Milo R. Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net>
Re: absolute truth
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Next Sunday (was Fifth Sunday of Easter, somewhere near Jurassic Park)
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: developing good practice technique From: "Alvin Wen" <wen@rochester.rr.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:57:48 -0400   Here is a nice article on effective practicing:   http://organweb.com/resources/barry-practice-techniques.htm   -Alvin   >In a message dated 5/9/2004 7:10:04 PM Central Daylight Time, >kevin_cischke@hotmail.com writes: >I have been contemplating how we develop good practice habits. .... >Please give me some suggestions and feedback regarding this.      
(back) Subject: Re: developing good practice technique From: "Christopher Howerter" <OrgelspielerKMD@msn.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:18:28 -0400   Dear Dale,   I can answer your question in two simple words. Dupre Fingerings! = These, though more specifically his editions, are very unfashionable = right now. However, when I say fingerings, I mean ONLY the fingerings = and pedalings. The best thing to do is purchase a good non-Dupre = edition of the piece (unless you already have one) and then go to a = music library or a friend, and copy in the fingerings from the Dupre = Editions that either may have. This somewhat tedious job will be = absolutely worth the effort, as by the time you learn the piece with = these ingenious fingerings and pedalings, you will have mastered it = technically as if nothing before (I am living proof of this, BTW). I = even use them (and heels) in Bach, but not once have I played that = legato; nevertheless, that is another story. You see the key in Bach is = that with these fingerings, a complete legato is allowed, which means = that EVERY SINGLE NOTE is prepared! When using them in Bach, all you = have to do is just add the articulation after you've learned the = fingerings. Now, getting back to the subject on hand, if your hands can = comfortably reach a twelfth, then you are set! If this is not the case, = however, write in the fingerings and then go to the piano and adjust = them as necessary making sure that the fingering you use will allow for = a complete legato! I say this because Dupre could comfortably reach a = twelfth. This is truly one of the great ways to learn a piece, and = learn it thoroughly. If you have any more questions, feel free to = contact me privately. Hope this helps!   Sincerely, Christopher J. Howerter, SPC Director of Music and Organist St. Paul's Lutheran Church Bethlehem, PA Cell: (610) 462-8017 ------------ Original Message: Subject: Re: developing good practice technique From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com<mailto:ProOrgo53@aol.com>> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 00:59:40 EDT   Hello Colleagues -   In connection with Kevin Cischke's question about strategies for = effective=20 practicing, I would like to "couple" to his question another : "what are =   effective approaches to learning a brand new work, one requring = considerable study :=20 fingerings, pedal markings to workout, etc. (not a sight-readable = piece),=20 i.e., Piece Heroique of Cesar Franck?" Please share, on both topics, = what you=20 have found to be effective.   Dale Rider Independence, MO   In a message dated 5/9/2004 7:10:04 PM Central Daylight Time,=20 kevin_cischke@hotmail.com<mailto:kevin_cischke@hotmail.com> writes: Dear friends,   I have been contemplating how we develop good practice habits. I know = when I=20 began studying instruments many years ago the teachers always stressed = regular=20 practice for a specific duration of time. However, just going over = something=20 again and again for a specified period does not make good practice. I = know=20 there has to be a methodical approach with specific goals in mind. Can = you please=20 tell me how you learned to practice effectively? Was it tauhgt to you? = At=20 what age? Did anyome ever have you practice in their presence so they = could=20 observe you and make corrections to your practicing strategy?   Please give me some suggestions and feedback regarding this.   thank you Kevin Cischke      
(back) Subject: Re: developing good practice technique From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:07:55 -0400   On 5/10/04 8:18 AM, "Christopher Howerter" <OrgelspielerKMD@msn.com> wrote:   > if your hands can comfortably reach a twelfth, then you are set!   Yes, if I may assume that =B3hands=B2 means using BOTH of them.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: developing good practice technique From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 21:18:07 +0800   Re: developing good practice techniqueA TWELFTH???? You mean a ninth = don't you? Or do you live in Brobdingnag? Bob Elms. Subject: Re: developing good practice technique     On 5/10/04 8:18 AM, "Christopher Howerter" <OrgelspielerKMD@msn.com> = wrote:     if your hands can comfortably reach a twelfth, then you are set! =20    
(back) Subject: RE: developing good practice technique From: "Milo R. Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:29:29 -0400   Re: developing good practice techniqueWhat was advised to me for a good practice technique was to practice slowly and ensure you do the correct fingering and go through the music without a mistake and as you get more comfortable with it then you speed it up slowly over time till its at the tempo that is appropriate for that piece of music.   Milo    
(back) Subject: good practice technique From: "Richard Hazelip" <rhazelip1@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 06:42:59 -0700 (PDT)   I run the risk of saying something that has been said before - - however: I practice in small bits of concentrated time on specific areas of the = music, working on a specific issue whether pedaling, fingering, = registration. or phrasing. Eventually I string the difficult areas = together with those areas of the music requiring less concentrated effort.   I try to monitor closely to see when I stop thinking or concentrating. At = that time I lay off and come back later. I have to fight an old habit of = just playing through the music rather than working through it. Richard Hazelip    
(back) Subject: Re: Fifth Sunday of Easter, Year C, somewhere near Jurassic Park From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 06:43:08 -0700     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 2:02 PM Subject: Fifth Sunday of Easter, Year C, somewhere near Jurassic Park     > Easter 5C, May 9: > > Prelude: Rhosymedre ("Lovely"; a text H 587) - Ralph Vaughan Williams;   Great minds, etc! That was the Prelude here in Forest Grove, OR -- a last minute change on Friday, when I discovered that we were singing Rhosymedre (UCC hymnal #426 -- O God, Whose Steadfast Love). But our church secretary did get it in the bulletin.   > Postlude: Allegro con spirito in B flat major - Frank Bridge > Church secretary did not list prelude, postlude or anthem in bulletin, > even after I left it in writing (with references to the text found in > the hymnal) and e-mailed the info to her. Why spend all that time > working out the themes and meshing the music with the message (today of > God's love for us)?   On the other hand, your guys got better than mine with the Frank Bridge. = (I used the Entrata of the Karg-Elert op. 37 Partita, nice enough, but I'd rather hear the Bridge. > I taught the choir 'Wondrous Love' today for anthem - they had never > heard it. Just before prelude all my presets were gone - is it the > organ, my electric personality or sabotage? So I spent five minutes of > prelude time frantically trying to reset the combinations, while engaged > in conversation with a nice lady who could not read the panic on my > face. Thankfully, others were in equal frenzy trying to locate a victim > for acolyte duty. The treasurer was very pleasant to me today, so maybe > that means I'll get paid. Again, all that time tweaking and trying to > make some pleasant sounds come out of the organ was for naught, although > I recreated it closely from reading my notes, and tried to review it > during the readings to make sure I hadn't done something really stupid.   One of the nice things about substitute duty is the constant alertness of having to be ready for unfamiliar problems; up to a point like the feeling of walking a tightrope with some confidence because, after all, you're a highly experience tightrope walker. But there is a line that can be = crossed. > > > Everyone was really nice and enthusiastic about the music, and the > former incumbent did not appear after the postlude. The senior warden > informed me that he needed to talk to me next week. If it was a > complaint, he'd have hit me then. I know the subject - no, I'm not > budging - I'm done after May 23. I have a horrendous headache every > time I finish a service there, so I must be allergic to the place.   Do not waver!!   MAF   > >    
(back) Subject: Wayne Leupold Editions e-mail address From: "Wayne Leupold" <WLeupold@msn.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:53:23 -0400   Our e-mail address is WLeupold@msn.com  
(back) Subject: Re: good practice technique From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:18:36 -0700   1. Work out the fingering and pedalling FIRST. Don't slop through a new piece to "get the feel of it" ... commence WORKING on PERFECTING it straight away.   2. NEVER play a wrong note or wrong rhythm, no matter HOW slow you have to go.   3. Play EACH measure thus until you have it right and up to tempo BEFORE going on to the next measure:   Soprano Alto Tenor Bass Pedals   Soprano + Alto Soprano + Tenor Soprano + Bass Soprano + Pedals   Alto Alto + Tenor Alto + Bass Alto + Pedals   Tenor Tenor + Bass Tenor + Pedals   Bass Bass + Pedals   By the end of all that, you should have the piece virtually memorized <g>.   A piece thus learned will stay with you throughout your career, so ULTIMATELY you SAVE time by learning it RIGHT the FIRST time, rather than having to RELEARN it again and again.   I learned Clavieruebung III that way in the 1960s. I could still play it forty years later, until I had a stroke, and even THEN I could still play the manualiter versions <g>.   Cheers,   Bud              
(back) Subject: Re: good practice technique From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:19:47 EDT   I practice as much as possible on my digital piano on the "harpsichord" setting, where it's a *lot* harder to fudge the notes. I have a synth = stacked above it, for when two manuals are required - same setting. When THAT is = smooth, I head off to the church and add pedals.   Victoria    
(back) Subject: Re: Fifth Sunday of Easter, Year C, somewhere near Jurassic Park From: "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:12:04 +0100   You have a Church secretary ? ................   You have a Church secretary .......... who can type ?   There's 'Posh' !   Harry [MusicMan] Grove (who does all his own typing - and typo's)     -----Original Message----- From: Alan Freed <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: 09 May 2004 22:26 Subject: Re: Fifth Sunday of Easter, Year C, somewhere near Jurassic Park     >On 5/9/04 5:02 PM, "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> wrote: > >> Church secretary did not list prelude, postlude or anthem in bulletin,    
(back) Subject: in preparation - music for Aug. 15 From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 07:51:51 -0700   Psalm and Alleluia for St. Mary-the-Virgin, Aug. 15   Gospel for St. Mary-the-Virgin, Aug. 15 - for three deacons, with ad lib choir and instruments   These will go automatically to my download list. If you want to BE on my download list, and/or you want just these items, PLEASE e-mail me = PRIVATELY.   The music is free; donations are suggested and cheerfully accepted <g> .... at the moment, I'm living on $400/mo plus the music donations until my SDI disability payments kick in.   But I'm still eating and living indoors (chuckle) ... no worries.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: RE: developing good practice technique From: "Jarle Fagerheim" <jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:40:08 +0200 (CEST)   I believe one thing is very important to remember in discussions like this; the fact that people are different. There's no such thing as an absolute truth, even though some claim to know it. But for _me_, the most important thing is to have fun at the organ, piano, harpsichord, or whatever the instrument. The day (and I seriously doubt it'll come!) when I no longer enjoy practising, I'll stop playing and spend my time on something else.   Going through every piece very slowly, measure by measure, not allowing yourself a single mistake, is a method that works well for some. But not for everyone. Learning every piece on the piano first is also very helpful for many. But not for everyone. Even playing through pieces without learning them "properly", may improve your playing. I've done that a lot, and the sight-reading abilities I've aquired by doing it are extremely helpful for me. But I'm not saying it'll work for everyone. ...   -- Jarle   http://jarle.moo.no   ______________________________________________________ F=E5 den nye Yahoo! Messenger p=E5 http://no.messenger.yahoo.com/ Nye ikoner og bakgrunner, webkamera med superkvalitet og dobbelt s=E5 = morsom  
(back) Subject: Re: Holy Trinity, Brooklyn .... Fine Tuning My original Post. Comments from Mr. Nichols From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:19:58 -0700 (PDT)   Hi All, I no longer have the post from Mr. Nichols that basically said I was = spreading misinformation while pretending to be an authority on the = situation ... regarding Holy Trinity. I was going to let it pass and = deleted it .... but decided to address it again, because I feel his = comments and several others are "whitewashing" this situation. Also I = don't like being accused of being malicious: In a nutshell: either through outright fraud, or because some people (in = charge) lacked even a hint of intelligence ....... a large amount of money = was raised to restore a notable E.M. Skinner organ. ...... And the = result was the organ continued to be mechanically unsound immediately = after the rebuild ....... continued to "fall apart" .... and is once = again in need of a massive rebuild. So I will provide additional detail on my original comments while also = incorporating some additional info. that was emailed me off list ..... = regarding this situation. I lived in Brooklyn Heights from 1974 - 1977. Sometime during that period = I attended ONE concert on the Skinner. During the concert I could not = help but notice that the organ sounded in poor repair, with dead notes, = and wind leaks. I also remember how surprised I was that ANY sound was = coming out of some very small openings. We were informed during the = concert that portions of the organ were not playable .... but that we = would get a good idea of the organ, regardless. At the end of the concert, we were invited up to the console. I noticed = it had 5 manuals and Olde English Script lettering ..... that I had a very = hard time reading. I was really surprised to see that the organ had a = Positiv division (not really ..... prepared for) plus so many knobs I = wondered "How could so many pipes be jammed into such a small space.". = Many of the knobs had small "dots" of blue tape on them to indicate they = were not functioning. The MAJORITY of the knobs had these "dots", not = just a few. BTW ...... Off list, a few days ago, an organ curator emailed me informing = me that the console cost $100,000. This person bid on the restoration (re = leathering) ... no tonal modifications ....... and did not get the job. During that same period of time, (1974 - 1977) I was informed that the = curator of the organ, was the same curator of the St. Pat's organ and had = gotten into some real trouble for using some of St. Pat's pipe work at St. = Ann's. I readily admit , in this regard I may be incorrect, not = remembering who told me..... and I certainly did not get it first hand. = Also I do not know if this was just "swapping" out a few pipes to try them = out at St. Ann's, .... or they were being incorporated. During that time, more than once I heard identical comments that someone = related to the restoration received a "kick-back" from the builder (Keats = ?) in turn for ordering this huge console. .... And that the console = ate up the bulk of the rebuilding funds. Seeing this huge thing first = hand with it's weird lettering and all those "extra" knobs for pipework = that could never fit in the pipe chamber ........ certainly leads me to = believe this to be true ..... or that someone's brains were out to lunch. = Let's not forget it was 5 manuals too !!!! First problem from Mr. Nichols comments .....Now if such minimal tonal = revision was planned ......... why the monster console with all those = "prepared fors" ?????????? Next, the comment regarding the Inaudibility of the Tuba M.... and the = fact that monies were already earmarked for the re leathering .... so = getting a new console (with all those prepared for ranks) was the right = thing to do. First off, Has anyone on this list EVER heard an E.M. Skinner Tuba M. that = was "inaudible". Secondly I heard the French Trumpet very well during the = concert, from the same division. Regarding the re leathering ............... I contend that it was either = not done, or was done poorly. I contend that the vast majority of monies = raised went to the console, Certainly attending a concert during that time = period indicated to me the organ was in disrepair. Spending $100,000 for = an ornate console with MANY "pie in the sky" future additions seems = "strange" to me ........... BTW, in contrast the new Trinity Wall Street = AS built during that same same period cost $225,000. Several months ago, a posting announced a restoration drive for the St. = Ann / Trinity organ ..... since the organ is virtually unplayable ..... = but that the few ranks that they have managed to get playing in the Solo = Division will show the potential of the restored instrument. So we have a situation where the organ was in disrepair between 1974 - = 1977 just after all that money was spent. And the organ has been going = down hill until this day. I stand by my original post that the history of this organ would make any = lover of E. M. Skinner organs break down and cry. If anyone has additional info. such as if the Keats console is still = working, please come forward and let us know. Matt         --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
(back) Subject: RE: [LONG] Whaddya think? Would it sell? From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <rgunther@cantv.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:06:31 -0400   Andres Gunther rgunther@cantv.net   Wow, Glenda, Congrats! Does the story continue? I hope to find out who was the murderer, honestly.   As for people who don't like Reger: <sigh> what can we expect if my (ex-) organ instructor says that playing or listening to Reger is worse than getting a poisoning from spoiled Sauerkraut. [I am NOT suggesting an idea about how to get a prospective "second corpse" for Glenda's thriller LOL].   Now somewhat more serious: I find it rather sad that Max Reger's small = organ works Op 69, 80 and 129 aren't more popular. They are a) short, b) very dense, c) with all typical Reger elements however, including demand for colorful registration... but much more "user friendly". Well, Bach was = "only for the selected few" for almost 100 years...   Yours Andres STILL having a couple of "fool's days" :) No puns at all, however. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.    
(back) Subject: Gospel for Three Deacons for St. Mary the Virgin Aug. 15 From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 12:15:45 -0700   This came together quicker than I thought it would ... it's gone out to my download list; if anybody else wants it, PLEASE e-mail me PRIVATELY.   Suggested donation US $1 per page for the masters ... make all the copies you like.   The instruments are ad lib, and can be used with the version for deacons alone, or the version for the choir.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: absolute truth From: <Steskinner@aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:35:08 EDT   In a message dated 5/10/2004 11:41:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, jarle_fagerheim@yahoo.co.uk writes: There's no such thing as an absolute truth, even though some claim to know it. Would not this statement be an example of an absolute truth?   I believe there most certainly is an absolute truth, though discerning it = may be quite challenging. Many (most?) things are a matter of opinion, = personal taste, or experience. I believe that there cannot be two opposing = "truths."   Here is a case at hand--several posts back, someone described a moderately =   sized 3 manual organ specification with 3 (THREE!!!!) cornets as being = "ideal." This is amatter of opinion, and I would very much like to see this = person's point-of-view. I cannot for the life of me figure why anyone, at any time = would need more than 1 cornet. I certainly don't challenge that it is ideal for = the person posting, but I just don't get it.   On the other hand, there are theological statements to which every = Christian faith community subscribes. These, IMO, are absolute truths, which stand whether they are believed or not.   Here is my submission for an absolute truth: "It's easier and cheaper to do it right the first time."     Steven Skinner Minister of Music First Presbyterian Church of the Covenant Erie, PA    
(back) Subject: Absolute truths From: "Milo R. Shepherd" <mrstwin2@cox.net> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:49:56 -0400   There are some absolute truths in everyday life....one that you have to breath to live as well as eat and drink. These are nature absolutes. Science has shown that there are many constants in the universe. To say that there is no absolute truth is to deny the greatness of the world, galaxy etc.   Some absolutes in organs is that you need at least some keys, stops, = pedals, a console, pipework, blowers, etc. Everything else is really up to the induhvidual.   Just my two cents worth.   Milo      
(back) Subject: Re: absolute truth From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:20:26 -0700     ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steskinner@aol.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 >Here is a case at hand--several posts back, someone described a = moderately sized 3 manual organ specification with 3 >THREE!!!!) cornets = as being "ideal." This is amatter of opinion, and I would very much = like to see this person's point-of-view. I >cannot for the life of me = figure why anyone, at any time would need more than 1 cornet. I = certainly don't challenge that it is ideal >for the person posting, but = I just don't get it.   Well, if you decide to play Messiaen's Subtilit=E9 des Corps Glorieux, = you'll find his registration indications:   G.O.: Cornet P.: Cornet R.: Cornet=20   MAF=    
(back) Subject: Next Sunday (was Fifth Sunday of Easter, somewhere near Jurassic Park) From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:29:11 -0500   Well, I discovered that as bad as the organ is, the spinet piano beside it (also a Baldwin) is much worse. Talk about a poster child for no maintenance! So no piano music whatsoever. For prelude next week I was thinking of either Bach's 'Piece d'Orgue' or my two favorite Percy Whitlock short pieces back to back. I'll have to run by there tomorrow and see if either or both work. It's hard to choose music, and I dare not use anything that requires much change of stops, with the organ or someone wiping the registrations out. (That's why I forego the Bridge Adagio, which is my favorite Bridge piece, and a host of other music I can still manage to play.)   Dubois gets my vote for postlude - think I can play 'em out in record time with that, no matter what registration the organ chooses.   Michael the Fox-Man is right - there is a sense of accomplishment when one gets through a Sunday at this place. And I'm playing surprisingly well for one carrying such a high probability of something's going wrong.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com