PipeChat Digest #4501 - Saturday, May 15, 2004
 
Re: Alec Rowley Music Received!
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Spec Wanted
  by "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net>
Re: Spec Wanted
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Bud's Post on Small Organs
  by <OMusic@aol.com>
Absolute Truth about Organ Building
  by "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net>
Re: Absolute Truth about Organ Building
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Absolute Truth about Organ Building
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Absolute Truth about Organ Building
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: Spec Wanted
  by "Bill Raty" <billious@billraty.com>
Re: Bud's Post on Small Organs
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
[cross-posted] request for practice space in PA
  by "Greg Homza" <homza@indiana.edu>
Recital in Houston
  by <Norms0549@aol.com>
The Organ Symphonie
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Alec Rowley Music Received! From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 07:40:37 -0700     ----- Original Message -----=20 =46rom: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> > I came to know of it because of the 1960=E2=80=99s (first era) radi= o broadcasts =66rom Independence, Missouri of THE AUDITORIUM ORGAN, Bethel Knoche, Organist. Mrs. Knoche was the first Principal Organist of the (then) Reorganized CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints World Headqua= rters, now Community of Christ (2000 name change). She programmed the Rowley Benedictus many times on her recorded-broadcast recitals. I was very = moved by this music 40 years ago and am profoundly blessed by it still toda= y. > Surely this =E2=80=98anointed=E2=80=99 music does as C. Rossetti= =E2=80=99s quotation beneath the title indicates: > > =E2=80=9CI bring refreshment. I bring ease and calm.=E2=80=9D > Thanks for that interesting background. The piece remains a great fav= orite of mine, but I think I like Rowley's Second Benedictus ("In quiet contemplation shall peace guide your ways") even better. And then the= re's W. S. Lloyd Webber's Benedictus (in the Novello Colours of the Organ collection), the top of the heap (at least for me).   Curious that as far as I know, none of the three has ever been record= ed. All of them ought to be...   MAF      
(back) Subject: Spec Wanted From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:52:25 -0400   List,   Speaking of small organs, I was perusing sites from links on the = Keyboardtrader site during a break at work and came across the following = small organ:   St. Anskar's Episcopal Church, Hartland, Wisconsin. The link to it on = the Schantz website is: =20   http://www.schantzorgan.com/w-new/Listing.cfm?Selection=3D49   For this organ, Schantz does not include the spec. It's really a = creative idea for a the situation in which the builder and church found = themselves. Does anyone have the spec of this organ handy? I tried a = Google search and found a few links, but no stoplist.   Thanks, Keith  
(back) Subject: Re: Spec Wanted From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:15:11 -0700   It was in TAO not too long ago, but I didn't save that issue.   Sorry!   Bud   Keith Zimmerman wrote:   > List, > > Speaking of small organs, I was perusing sites from links on the > Keyboardtrader site during a break at work and came across the following =   > small organ: > > St. Anskar's Episcopal Church, Hartland, Wisconsin. The link to it on > the Schantz website is: > > http://www.schantzorgan.com/w-new/Listing.cfm?Selection=3D49 > > For this organ, Schantz does not include the spec. It's really a > creative idea for a the situation in which the builder and church found > themselves. Does anyone have the spec of this organ handy? I tried a > Google search and found a few links, but no stoplist. > > Thanks, > Keith      
(back) Subject: Re: Bud's Post on Small Organs From: <OMusic@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:57:43 EDT   Speaking of small organs, I played a self-contained, one manual 2 rank = Wicks (without pedals) for David's funeral last week (Those who have been on for =   several years know who David was). That was the smallest organ I have = played in a long time. We did congregational singing and it did have a full sound = with a stop that made the bass note sound like a 16 foot pedal. Lee    
(back) Subject: Absolute Truth about Organ Building From: "Keith Zimmerman" <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:47:47 -0400   List,   This is a question about large organs in large rooms. I enjoyed the = post or two from Bud about the small organ being able to fill a rather = large sanctuary. I realize that my question involves several variables, = nevertheless, maybe y'all can figure out what I'm trying to ask.   Playing the devil's advocate for a moment, I'm wondering if there really = is some justification from a musical or audio standpoint for a large = room requiring a rather large instrument. I understand that voicing is = very important in putting a smallish organ into a largish room. I = understand that there is an interaction between the acoustics of the = room and the sound.=20   How much lattitude does voicing give when installing a 10 rank organ = into a sanctuary that seats 2000 people? I guess I'm kinda drawing a = parallel to a symphony orchestra vs a small ensemble. One listens to a = small wind, string, or brass ensemble in an intimate space and the sound = fills the room. When this group moves to an auditorium, their sound = might be dwarfed. Sure, they can blow harder and play more loudly, but = that's not the same thing as adding more instruments - i.e. having 20 = violins instead of 2.   For the same type of fullness, doesn't a large room actually require = more individual pipes to be sounding instead of just voicing the = existing pipes to play louder? I don't have my pipechat digest = available to me at the office right now, but I appreciated the comments = from Australia. We do seem to build very large organs because we "can". = Anyway, I'd appreciate your thoughts.   Thanks, Keith  
(back) Subject: Re: Absolute Truth about Organ Building From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:34:42 EDT   In a message dated 5/14/2004 12:48:37 PM Central Daylight Time, kwzimmerman@alltel.net writes: This is a question about large organs in large rooms. I enjoyed the post = or two from Bud about the small organ being able to fill a rather large sanctuary. I realize that my question involves several variables, = nevertheless, maybe y'all can figure out what I'm trying to ask.   Playing the devil's advocate for a moment, I'm wondering if there really = is some justification from a musical or audio standpoint for a large room requiring a rather large instrument. I understand that voicing is very = important in putting a smallish organ into a largish room. I understand that there is = an interaction between the acoustics of the room and the sound.   How much lattitude does voicing give when installing a 10 rank organ into = a sanctuary that seats 2000 people? I guess I'm kinda drawing a parallel = to a symphony orchestra vs a small ensemble. One listens to a small wind, = string, or brass ensemble in an intimate space and the sound fills the room. When = this group moves to an auditorium, their sound might be dwarfed. Sure, they = can blow harder and play more loudly, but that's not the same thing as adding = more instruments - i.e. having 20 violins instead of 2.   For the same type of fullness, doesn't a large room actually require more individual pipes to be sounding instead of just voicing the existing pipes = to play louder? I don't have my pipechat digest available to me at the = office right now, but I appreciated the comments from Australia. We do seem to build = very large organs because we "can". Anyway, I'd appreciate your thoughts.   Thanks, Keith Hi Keith, Food for thought...   Voicing is important regardless of the size of room or instrument.   Check out recordings of Cavaille-Coll orgues de choeur-they are often a = fifth the size of the grand orgue, and fill the cathedrals quite magnificently. =   Saint Sulpice is a fine example. Cheers, gfc               Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Absolute Truth about Organ Building From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:38:44 -0700       Keith Zimmerman wrote:   > List, > > This is a question about large organs in large rooms. >   OK. There's an upward limit to what can be accomplished as far as raising the wind pressure, increasing the pipe-scales, etc.   You asked about 10 ranks/stops in a room seating 2000. Probably not going to happen (grin).   My former church, Old St. Mary's RC in Cincinnati seated 1000; the organ was a 3m Austin of 1928, voiced on 7'' of wind throughout. The stoplist was something like this (it's only been thirty years):   SWELL   16' Lieblich Gedeckt - 12 pipes 8' Phonon Diapason (later moved up to make 4' Octave) 8' Violin Diapason 8' Stopped Diapason 8' Viole d'Orchestre 8' Viole Celeste 8' Echo Salicional 8' Echo Celeste 4' Flute 2' Flautino 16' Bassoon - 12 pipes 8' Oboe 8' Vox Humana   GREAT   16' Bourdon 8' First Open Diapason 8' Second Open Diapason 8' Major Flute 8' Violoncello 8' Dolce (later replaced by 2' Fifteenth from Cinti. Music Hall) 4' Octave 4' Flute 8' French Trumpet   CHOIR   8' Geigen Diapason 8' Concert Flute (later replaced by 4' Geigen Octave from Cinti. Music = Hall) 8' Chimney Flute 8' Dulciana 8' Unda maris 4' Flute - 12 pipes 2' Piccolo - 12 pipes 8' Clarinet 8' English Horn (later replaced by 8' Bassoon from Cinti. Music Hall)   PEDAL   16' Open Wood 16' Bourdon (gt) 16' Lieblich Gedeckt (sw) 8' Flute - 12 pipes 16' Trombone 16' Bassoon (sw)   Full couplers 73-note chests Great and Choir enclosed, except for First Open   If I counted right, that's 29 independent ranks plus some extensions and duplexing.   Old St. Mary's is a GOOD room ... around 3 seconds reverb when the place is FULL ... but 29 ranks was a MIGHTY roar without being unmusical. It could EASILY lead the singing of 1000 VERY convinced German Catholics (chuckle).   Unfortunately, most 2000-seat rooms being built today are dead as doornails ... they're being built with the assumption that they'll be used PRIMARILY for the spoken word, and that the audio engineers will add back in the reverb electronically.   St. Mary's had NO sound system; the only "sound reinforcement" was a sounding board over the hourglass pulpit. There was no apse, but the priest's voice at the High Altar (facing east) could be heard perfectly.   That said, I STILL think that if Schoenstein can fill a dead room that seats TWENTY thousand with about 130 ranks/stops (I forget now which it is), then a GOOD builder SHOULD be able to fill a 2000-seat dead room with a modest-sized organ, properly scaled, voiced, and winded, and still have the outcome be musical.   What's the MOST the literature calls for? Something like   SWELL   8' Diapason 4' Octave (2' Super Octave) 2' Mixture   16' Gedeckt 8' Open or Harmonic Flute 8' Stopped Flute 4' Flute (2 2/3' Nazard) 2 2/3' Cornet   16' Bassoon 8' Trumpet 8' Oboe (8' Vox Humana) 4' Clarion   8' String 8' Celeste   GREAT   16' Double Open Diapason 8' Open Diapason 4' Octave 2 2/3' Twelfth 2' Fifteenth 2 2/3 or 1 1/3 Mixture   (16' Bourdon) 8' Open or Harmonic Flute (5 1/3' Double Nazard) 8' Chimney Flute (3 1/5' Double Tierce) 4' Flute 8' Cornet   16' Double Trumpet 8' Trumpet 4' Clarion   16' Violone 8' Violoncello   CHOIR   8' Diapason 4' Octave 2' Super Octave 1 1/3' or 1' Mixture   8' Open Flute 8' Stopped Flute 4' Flute 2 2/3 Nazard 2' Flute 1 3/5' Tierce (1 1/3' Larigot) (1' Fife)   (16' Reed) 8' Small Trumpet or Cornopean 8' Cromorne (8' Tuba)   8' Salicional 8' Unda maris II   PEDAL   16' Open Wood (16' Open Metal - gt) 8' Octave 4' Octave (Mixture)   (32' Contra Bourdon - 12 pipes - ext. Sub Bass) 16' Sub Bass (16' Bourdon - gt) 8' Flute 4' Flute   (32' Contra Trombone - 12 pipes) 16' Trombone 8' Trumpet 4' Clarion   (16' Violone - gt) (8' Violoncello - gt)   That's around 60 stops, give or take ... properly voiced, scaled, winded and placed (encased on the central axis), that should play MOST of the literature and be able to fill MOST churches.   Electric action and full couplers would give more flexibility for accompanying and service-playing, but it COULD be built as an encased tracker, with the exception of the 16-8 manual extensions.   Certainly Fisk has built Pedal organs with that many mechanical transmissions (Caruth Auditorium at SMU). If built as a tracker, it might possibly need pneumatic assists, at least to the Great, depending on the wind-pressure.   One might wish for a few more separate mutations (Swell Nazard, Great Double Nazard and Double Tierce), and perhaps a 16' English Horn or Baryton in the Choir, and a Pedal Mixture, but that's really a VERY complete organ. Anything more as far as the literature and service-playing is concerned really IS wretched excess <g>.   BUT ... SUCCESS of such an organ depends on the builder, the scaling, the voicing, the wind-pressure, the mixture composition, the placement, and the acoustics of the room.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: Absolute Truth about Organ Building From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:40:50 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: <quilisma@cox.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 1:38 PM Subject: Re: Absolute Truth about Organ Building     > You asked about 10 ranks/stops in a room seating 2000. Probably not > going to happen (grin).   There's no real reason why it couldn't, though. All you would really need to accompany a congregation of a couple thousand would be a = stentorphon-type Open Diapason, with a matching Octave and a big three or four rank = Mixture. Obviously most people would want more ranks than that in a building that size, but so far as producing an adequate volume these five or six ranks would be all was needed. The additional ranks -- whether there were two more or two hundred more -- would just be for variety of tone.   One of the outstanding small instruments in a massive building is in the Roman Catholic Basilica of the Sacred Heart, Hanover, Pennsylvania (aka "Conewago Chapel"). This was the largest church in the USA when it was built in 1787, and though it doesn't seat as many as 2,000. it must hold = the best part of 1,000. The organ, Hook & Hastings, Op.1866 of 1900, is more than adequate for the building. Personally I find it a little = overpowering, although admittedly you do need to use the octave coupler for an adequate tutti. In this organ, though, the wind pressure and scaling isn't even particularly out of the ordinary; it is just voiced to the max. It has = the following ten ranks:   Great   8' Open Diapason 8' Viola da Gamba 8' Doppel Floete 4' Octave Swell to Great Unison Swell to Great Octave   Swell   8' Violin Diapason 8' Stop'd Diapason 8' Salicional 4' Flute Harmonique 8' Trumpet Tremolo   Pedal   16' Open Diapason Great to Pedal Unison Swell to Pedal Unison   John Speller            
(back) Subject: Re: Spec Wanted From: "Bill Raty" <billious@billraty.com> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:56:47 -0700 (PDT)   That solution is certainly over my head... ;-)   -Bill   --- Keith Zimmerman <kwzimmerman@alltel.net> wrote: > List, > > Speaking of small organs, I was perusing sites from links on > the Keyboardtrader site during a break at work and came > across the following small organ: > > St. Anskar's Episcopal Church, Hartland, Wisconsin. The link > to it on the Schantz website is: > > http://www.schantzorgan.com/w-new/Listing.cfm?Selection=3D49 > > For this organ, Schantz does not include the spec. It's > really a creative idea for a the situation in which the > builder and church found themselves. Does anyone have the > spec of this organ handy? I tried a Google search and found > a few links, but no stoplist. > > Thanks, > Keith     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D    
(back) Subject: Re: Bud's Post on Small Organs From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:59:06 -0700   There is a ONE-rank Wicks organ in a Lutheran church here in San Diego .... one manual and pedal ... flute 16 - 8 - 4 - 2 2/3 - 2 - 1 3/5 - 1 1/3 - 1. It isn't the most sublime instrument in creation, but it accompanies the Lutheran liturgy quite well. The church seats MAYBE = 75-100.   Cheers,   Bud   OMusic@aol.com wrote:   > Speaking of small organs, I played a self-contained, one manual 2 rank > Wicks (without pedals) for David's funeral last week (Those who have > been on for several years know who David was). That was the smallest > organ I have played in a long time. We did congregational singing and > it did have a full sound with a stop that made the bass note sound like > a 16 foot pedal. Lee      
(back) Subject: [cross-posted] request for practice space in PA From: "Greg Homza" <homza@indiana.edu> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 23:06:47 -0500 (EST)   Greetings, listers...   This is a long-shot, but does anyone know of any churches with a decent organ (in working order) in or around Liberty Boro, McKeesport, PA that could be used for practice? I'll be in that neck of the woods from Monday, 5/24 to Thursday, 5/27, and would like to be able to practice for a bit on at least two of those days, preferably three or four.   I'll have a car, so I could conceivably go into Pittsburgh once or twice, but...something closer to McKeesport (area code 15133) would be best.   Many thanks in advance, -greg homza DM student (Organ and Church Music) IU Bloomington    
(back) Subject: Recital in Houston From: <Norms0549@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 02:21:12 -0400   Hi, List,   There will be a Members Recital this Sunday night, May 16, at 7:00 PM, sponsored by the Houston Chapter of the American Guild of Organists. It will take place in the Meetinghouse of the First Congregational Church, 10840 Beinhorn Road. It will commemorate the tenth anniversary of the installation of Reuter Opus 2169, 2/19.   Performers will include Reg Brown, Tom Crow, Joseph Painter, Stephanie Stevens, and Norman Sutphin, with works by Jean Langlais, Joseph Jongen, Michael Horvit, Dan Locklair, Louie White, and John Weaver. All list members within a reasonable driving distance are invited to attend.   Norman Sutphin  
(back) Subject: The Organ Symphonie From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 23:55:41 -0700   Dear friends,   I am finally making progress on my book on the Organ Symphonie. I'll = post links to the chapters as they become available. I hope this = becomes a valuable research tool for the organ community.   The Introduction is ready for download:   http://www.blackiris.com/orwig/symphonie/intro.pdf   Enjoy!   Jonathan Orwig     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.676 / Virus Database: 438 - Release Date: 5/3/2004