PipeChat Digest #4510 - Thursday, May 20, 2004
 
FW: Assistance at the console
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: putting Bach through the changes--or not
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: putting Bach through the changes--or not
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net>
Re: changes in Bach
  by "Mark Koontz" <markkoontz@yahoo.com>
Violin
  by "bnorth" <bnorth@intergate.ca>
Suggestions for Centennial Celebration
  by "Jeremy A. Korba" <jkorba@regentpromotions.com>
Fiffari and a Principal with a bubble
  by "James Nerstheimer" <enigma1685@yahoo.com>
Re: changes in Bach
  by "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com>
Re: Suggestions for Centennial Celebration
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: changes in Bach
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: putting Bach through the changes--or not
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Assistance at the console
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: Need anthems (from Victoria)
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
 

(back) Subject: FW: Assistance at the console From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:50:34 -0400   There are delightful accounts of Dr Francis Jackson during his tenure at York Minster, when the screen console would have three or four people crammed in to watch the master at work.....and he IS the absolute master of accompaniment.   Dr Jackson knows all the wording of the psalms by heart, and is therefore freed from the burden of actually reading the words.   One has to imagine the scene......four people in the console, and the Assistant Organist vacating the console, having played the pre-service voluntaries. Dr Jackson is still fastening his organ-shoe laces as the choir arrive at the choir stalls.   He turns to a visitor and says, "Would you be kind enough to give them a G for the responses on the Dulciana?"   Dr Jackson is STILL fumbling with his shoe-laces when the responses come to an end and the psalms are announced.   [By the organ, I assume? Maybe not???]   Just as we all think that he hasn't heard [heard WHAT? What=B9s to =B3hear=B2?], or has forgotten that he might be required, he turns to the console, flicks a piston, and whilst holding the opening chord, swings his legs over the organ bench as he accompanies the start of the psalm!!   Nail biting stuff indeed!   [=BFPor qu=E9? Not at Saint Luke=B9s! We know Pedro has everything (barely) under control!]   But to hear his worms and feathered fowls, whales moving in the waters, or the roar of God's anger, is to witness musical genius at work.   THAT, Pedro, THAT, is what makes me think of YOU!!! Heard you do it a hundred times=8Bincluding worms, feathers, waters, anger!   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-   Then there was Dr Philip Marshall, just up the road at Ripon Minster.........   This is the organ screen on which, just to the rear of the console, there is the famous wooden hand on a rocker pedal. This hand was used to beat time in days gone by, when the original organ had no pedals.   There he was, mid-service, dropping a leg over the organ bench and pumping the hand up and down during the prayers!   When asked what he was doing, he replied, "I'm just waving to my mother!!"   -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-   Well we ARE a nation of eccentrics in the UK!!     So, Eduardo is internationally famous, like it or not.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: putting Bach through the changes--or not From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 07:47:57 +0800   Manual changes and terraced dynamics are all very well if the organ has = multiple manuals (at least three) and a comprehensive specification. = However, I can see no problem with using coupled manuals and a swell = pedal if the organ is small, even for Bach. If the performance is = musical, what is the problem.   The call for constant "authenticity" is based on pure conjecture anyway. = Who can tell what Bach would or would not have done under the = circumstances of being faced with a modern organ? Noone. It is only = conjecture. Still if it amuses people let them dream on! Bob Elms.     ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Keys4bach@aol.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:56 PM Subject: Re: putting Bach through the changes--or not     In a message dated 5/19/2004 6:47:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, = enigma1685@yahoo.com writes:     tend NEVER to use a swell pedal in any music written before the = device was invented unless the instrument were poor enough as to leave = me with no choice. (rare)     This seems quite reasonable.......the entire c major was broken up by = superb articulation and varied touch I would guess......   dale in Florida i have been and always shall be a friend of manual changes <G>  
(back) Subject: Re: putting Bach through the changes--or not From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:44:55 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:59 PM Subject: Re: putting Bach through the changes--or not     > Hello, > > No real quibbles with Bill's comments, except one. > > The use of a Celeste in an Italian Eelevation is quite > historically correct! > > Early Italian organs often had a Voce Umana register, > tuned as an undulating stop. (I think it was tuned > flat like a flute celeste.)   The Voce Umana was generally speaking a diapason celeste rather than a string. But it was a celeste nonetheless. There was also an old Italian stop called the Piffaro, which seems to have been much the same thing.   There is also good precedent for celeste stops in old German organs. = There was a Southern German stop called the Bifara, Biffaro or Piffaro, which = was introduced in the seventeenth century and was a double-mouthed = (Doppelfl=F6te) type of flue stop. This stop was often found at 4' and 2' pitch as well = as 8'. The two mouths being deliberately slightly out of alignment made it a celesting stop. (Unlike the Ludwigtone it had no dividing wall, and so tended to be rather difficult to keep stable.) It was often also used = with the Salizional to produce a celeste effect. An example at Schwaz, Austria = in 1736 was described by G. K=F6ck, as a "Vivera oder schwebendes Register" = -- a vibrating or wavering stop. (See Peter Williams, The European Organ, p. 270.) "Schwebung" is often, indeed, used as a name for celeste ranks in Germany. The 1737 Gabler organ at Weingarten has multiple Piffaro stops, including one of six and one of seven ranks.   John Speller      
(back) Subject: Re: changes in Bach From: "Mark Koontz" <markkoontz@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 19:20:59 -0700 (PDT)   > From: <quilisma@cox.net> > Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:19:09 -0700 <snip> > Simplicity allows the music to speak for itself, on a GOOD organ. > > The Bach F Major Toccata played on an historic temperament has the > crescendos and decrescendos built in ... as one progresses further and > further away from F Major, the sound becomes more and more harsh and > dissonant, until you finally arrive at that Neapolitan chord just before > the return to F major at the end. When one DOES return to F Major, it's > like the sun coming out after a thunderstorm. One does not GET that > effect in equal temperament, and Bach obviously exploited it. >   This sounds absolutely delicious. I have not been exposed much to other temperaments, so it is a treat to "hear" this, albeit second-hand.   I am insufficiently educated in Baroque music to offer any credible = opinion about registrational changes one way or the other. What I have observed = is that constraints (self-imposed or otherwise) most often intensify an = artistic experience.   Thanks, Bud!   Mark    
(back) Subject: Violin From: "bnorth" <bnorth@intergate.ca> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 21:02:00 -0700   Yes, off topic, but I just wondered if anyone has any experience buying = a violin. I have some time on my hands and was thinking of buying one = and learning to play. Ebay has a number of inexpensive (OK, cheap, I'm = scottish) that seem to have the right features, but wonder at the price, = like $20 + shipping. I know you only get what you pay for, but has = anyone any experience with the cheap violins? Any advice appreciated.  
(back) Subject: Suggestions for Centennial Celebration From: "Jeremy A. Korba" <jkorba@regentpromotions.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:08:53 -0500   Greetings everyone! I'm writing with a request for some input / help. We're approaching the centennial of our parish. We're putting together a large choir and an ensemble of some type (brass, percussion, etc.) to celebrate the Parish's 100 years. I need some repertoire suggestions. We're interested in at least one big piece (i.e. Rutter Gloria) and several smaller choral works or brass = works. If you have programs, scripts, ideas, suggestions.. or general comments, please send them my way! Thanks for your help in advance! -Jeremy Korba Director of Music St. Joseph Catholic Church Evansville, IN jkorba@regentpromotions.com (812) 589-3886    
(back) Subject: Fiffari and a Principal with a bubble From: "James Nerstheimer" <enigma1685@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 21:12:33 -0700 (PDT)   At St. Paul's we have this rather broad-scale Salicional that does = double-duty as a small Principal and indeed makes a nice Second Diapason = when the Chimney Flute is added. There is a Celeste rank that goes with = it (TC) and they have a nice warm sound. Does a reasonable imitation of a = Voce Umana. In the Choir department there is a Vox Angelica II which in = the revoicing was brought out of the closet. It is of high tin content = and extremely thin scale and now that we opened it up a bit and tuned the = beats faster, there is this keen and silvery shimmer coming from the box. = I for one am of the persuasion that if you have two celestes, they should = definitely be in seperate boxes. Were it otherwise here, I could not have = played the Kieth Chapman Pastorale as I did last Sunday. The Great 8' Principal on which I played the entirety of that C-major = Fugue, since we revoiced it, has a nice robust bottom end which continues = to somewhat that same degree in the middle register. As you get toward = middle G, a nice French Horn-ish "bubble" begins to appear in the tone, = yet it retains just enough "edge". Before we revoiced, the edge = disappeared beginning at the C above and things turned rather flutey. We = fixed that however and it's truly a delightful stop=97all the way to the = top!. The Octave also has this "bubble" but is much more edgy. Would like to = extend it down to 8' some day and make a real Second Diapason from it. = Could be a trick though as it's on a slider chest. We did an arrangement = of a Scottish fiddle tune with the two violins playing their parts, and me = playing the 3rd violin part in the tenor range of the Octave. Yep, just = one line on one stop blending seamlessly with the string players. Got = that idea from E. Power Biggs' recordings of the Bach Cantata Sinfonias. Any fans of classic rock here=97specifically the work of Ray Manzarek (The = Doors) and Dennis DeYoung (Styx)? Yeah, I'm getting ideas. Stay tuned! jim O):^)   --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year  
(back) Subject: Re: changes in Bach From: "Andy Lawrence" <andy@ablorgans.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 00:27:03 -0500   I am no expert on Bach. (I fix em a lot more than I play em) But I have read that he really freaked out other organists and builders when they saw/heard his registrations. So it seems to me that if we really want to = do what Bach did, but he didn't write it down for us to see, then it would = make sense to study what his colleagues did, and then do anything but what they =   did.   By the way, (did someone mention this already?) while we're talking about celestes on baroque organs, wasn't there an organ in what was not long ago =   East Germany that Bach experienced in some way that had a principal celeste? I remember seeing it in the TAO and thinking that the discovery = of that organ would revolutionize what we thought about Bach and = registration, but I haven't heard any more about it.   One thing that's always baffled me... people talk about mixtures and clarity. Just me, but when I encounter a fugue the first thing I do is = turn any mixtures off on all organs I've encountered so far. They just seem to =   muddle things. Mixtures are more for opening tocattas in Bach, it seems = to me, where clarity is far less important and brilliance is important. No = one has told me/taught me this. It just seems so. Same for hymns, if I'm trying to encourage SATB singing... I leave any mixtures out until I'm = sure people really know the parts, maybe by the last verse. Wonder what Bach did? Don't care much, actually. Is anyone in agreement with me on this? =   Even now when romantic organs are "in", I still read/hear people talking about mixtures adding clarity.   (?)   Andy   A.B.Lawrence Pipe Organ Service PO Box 111 Burlington, VT 05402 (802)578-3936 Visit our website at www.ablorgans.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Suggestions for Centennial Celebration From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 00:28:34 -0500   Hi, Jeremy, One thing my parish my parish has found to be an extremely useful song for special events is _Sing the Kingdom_, by Alan J. Hommerding and Robert W. Schaefer. It is for SATB choir, Cantor, Assembly and Keyboard with optional String Quartet. It is published by World Library Publications. The keyboard part works very well on the organ and it is fairly easy for the congregation to learn. I was mildly surprised when I found the music for graduation Mass this Sunday didn't include it ;-) Alicia Zeilenga "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: "Jeremy A. Korba" <jkorba@regentpromotions.com> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:08:53 -0500 Subject: Suggestions for Centennial Celebration   > Greetings everyone! I'm writing with a request for some input / help. > > We're approaching the centennial of our parish. We're putting together > a > large choir and an ensemble of some type (brass, percussion, etc.) to > celebrate the Parish's 100 years. > > I need some repertoire suggestions. We're interested in at least one > big > piece (i.e. Rutter Gloria) and several smaller choral works or brass > works. > If you have programs, scripts, ideas, suggestions.. or general > comments, > please send them my way! > > Thanks for your help in advance! > > -Jeremy Korba > Director of Music > St. Joseph Catholic Church > Evansville, IN > jkorba@regentpromotions.com > (812) 589-3886 >      
(back) Subject: Re: changes in Bach From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 06:59:08 +0100 (BST)   Bud produced a list of teachers - I'm not sure if it was a general or personal list - who he suggests suport his point of view. I have no reason to doubt that they might take this point of view as a possible option - it might even be their unswerving practice - on the other side I could mention Ralph Downes, who I studied with for three years, Gillian Weir, Nicholas Danby and Norman Johnson (Australia), all of whom I have had lessons with. Bob Griffiths changes manuals -though he did tell me not to use octave couplers with mixtures! Bob and I were students together in London in the 1960's. They all suggested manual changes. Madeleine Durufle and Marie Claire Alain have also expressed a preference for tracker action in conversation, and though I played the Franck Choral in B minor to Mme Durufle, I have not played any Bach, but I think she changes registration. This is speaking from memory, but I am sure could be checked with discography. I played the three manual organ in the Durufle's apartment in Paris - it was tracker action. John Foss   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : Point and Counterpoint The Never Ending Story Strauss's "Alpine Symphony" CD and DVD death     ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html  
(back) Subject: Re: putting Bach through the changes--or not From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:25:21 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I've said this before, but if I were to write a book about motor racing in the 1930's, I would be able to write with far greater authority if I could drive the original machines around a race track.   That is the ONLY way of actually FEELING what was possible or not, and from it comes greater appreciation.   So when we play original instruments, they act as the great teachers that they are; giving us a unique insight and "feel" for the period.     Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       --- bobelms <bobelms@westnet.com.au> wrote: > > The call for constant "authenticity" is based on > pure conjecture anyway. Who can tell what Bach would > or would not have done under the circumstances of > being faced with a modern organ.     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains =96 Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer  
(back) Subject: Re: Assistance at the console From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 02:57:09 -0400   I have done registration duty for a couple of blind organists, and one of the things I have found is that you need to have the score in front of you =   to know when to change the registration, - at least a blind organist isn't =   going to miss it being up on the music rest.   Another thing is that you need to be both quick and ambidextrous, for the organist is likely to be charging on thinking that you have pulled, (or pushed), all the stops in no time at all!   But it is good fun when it all works out properly!   What is the proper name for the stop puller? Registrant? And is the manual blower pumper the Calcant? I have done that too!   Bob Conway    
(back) Subject: Re: Need anthems (from Victoria) From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 03:19:03 -0500   Fran Walker wrote:   > Victoria, the Oxford Easy Anthem Book (suggested to me for Easter by > Malcolm Welcher of this chat group) has 50 excellent anthems for all > occasions. Oxford University Press; most publishers here could get it > for you.   Oxford University Press (OUP) has a website, from which one can order directly; however, I am uncertain as to the status of the Oxford Easy Anthem book. It is possible that is has gone out of print, as Oxford has a replacement, entitled, appropriately enough, "The New Oxford Easy Anthem Book". Since this has an ISBN number (ISBN: 0 19 353318 9) you should be able to obtain the book from any bookseller; I ordered through my local Barnes and Noble store copies of "Anthems for Choirs 4", and "European Sacred Music".   If the earlier Oxford Easy Anthem Book is out of print, check with one of the used book meta-sites (my favorite: <www.abebooks.com>), as used copies show up there from time to time. Many of the items in the Easy Anthem Book were published separately, and if no longer in print, may be available from OUP's archive service, though the status of that may be in doubt, as the provider, Banks Music of York, UK, was bought about a month ago by a competitor to OUP, Music Sales.   ns